"knowing what direction you're going in" vs "just letting it happen"

[icarus27]

Surprisingly, a few posts on this forum say that knowing and being focussed

on what you want is a bad thing. The prevailing wisdom seems to be "date

around", "don't focus on any specific relationship goals" "if it's meant to

be, it will be".

 

This is at odds with the other view - which is that *at least* some kind of

focus is necessary to attain longer-term goals. For example, one post by a

female eNAer said that she would, pretty early on, find from the man what

his intentions were. If he was still not sure of whether he would someday

marry (not to her but generally), if he was still "going with the flow" -

she exited quickly, because she does want to be married someday and these

men are usually a waste of time. I think this is excellent advice.

 

Finding a committed partner is not just about "finding the right person to

rock your world so gooooood you want to settle down". I think there has to

be an inner desire to commit first, and the only then can the rest follow.

 

But I want to break it down a bit more by age and gender, which we don't

often do on eNA.

My take is that, in the 20-30 age bracket people are more likely to be

casual, they feel rightly or wrongly that they have all the time in the

world. In the 30+ group, people start being focussed. There is also a

male/female divide: females were traditionally thought to look for

longer-term potential, though these days, that is laughable.

 

My bugbear is this: how do people who carry no specific goals in mind think

they will ever get what they want? Do they think it will just magically

happen?

Women who have taken the casual approach, how do you possibly know that

when the casual period of your life ends, you will just 'chance' upon a man

who happens to want the same objectives in life as you? And if you don't

find it, are you happy with a life that is a string of involvements each of

which has a built-in "sell-by" date?

Men, who often used to take the rap for being looks- and fun-obsessed,

d'you ever wonder what happens when you're older and not able to 'get it

up' as often as you used to? I mean, what's the back-up plan?

[stella74]

Women who have taken the casual approach, how do you possibly know that

when the casual period of your life ends, you will just 'chance' upon a man

who happens to want the same objectives in life as you? And if you don't

find it, are you happy with a life that is a string of involvements each of

which has a built-in "sell-by" date?

 

I took the casual approach in my late 20s/early 30s in between a very serious long-term relationship and when I was involved with my ex-fiance. It was a combination of needing to experiment a little with dating since I'd never done that and also not finding any men I wanted to be in a relationship with. You can have a goal but it doesn't mean you're going to find a man with those same goals! What do you mean by sell-by date? Could you please clarify?

[savignon]

In my 20s I was definitely less concerned about my long term goals. I was confident that a bright future was ahead and didn't worry myself that anyone or anything would get in the way. In my 30s, at which point I have "everything I need and most of what I want" (a favorite expression of a good friend), I'm also sure that I'm not "wasting my time" with anyone or any experience. When I look back at things, I can see the "everything happens for a reason" pattern and trust that things are going to work out for the best. That doesn't mean I don't stress or that when I was dating I didn't concern myself at all with THEIR goals. I just didn't press things on the first or second date that I thought would come up naturally (non-interview-like)

I have a lot of respect for men and women who put it right out on the table right away and move on when they have a specific goal and plan for their life in mind.

There's no wrong way to do it.

[Lonewing]

My take is that, in the 20-30 age bracket people are more likely to be

casual, they feel rightly or wrongly that they have all the time in the

world. In the 30+ group, people start being focussed. There is also a

male/female divide: females were traditionally thought to look for

longer-term potential, though these days, that is laughable.

 

You really think so? Because in the case of me and my ex, the roles were completely reversed. I am in my late 20s, she's in her early 30s. She is now looking for just shorter term relationships, because she wants to go experience more of life and she likes the variety that comes with constant change.

 

I've always been on the outlook for the longer term from the start since before I entered the 20s myself.

 

The truth is, there is a great deal many people in the 20-30 bracket who just aren't mature enough yet to be in an adult relationship, so they are holding on to their shorter term fun and games. And there are people who thought they wanted long term only to find out they aren't stable enough to enjoy that without major conflict.

[lucasky]

I really liked this response.

 

I'm in my 20's and I take the casual approach to relationships. I find that if I try to make up some sort of game plan, I always end up over thinking things, so I tend to avoid worrying about when or who the next person I date will come along/will be, and instead I just try to get out there, meet new people, and enjoy life. The two long-term relationships I've been in both kind of fell into my lap anyways... you never know when you may just meet that special someone. I just go out on dates, if they pan out, they pan out, if they don't, oh well! Works for me.

[Knight of Hope]

The truth is, there is a great deal many people in the 20-30 bracket who just aren't mature enough yet to be in an adult relationship, so they are holding on to their shorter term fun and games.

 

Agreed. This was the problem with most of the women I met in my undergrad years. A lot just wanted to hold onto their fun and games. The rest were so focused on finding a husband that they wouldn't date a guy unless they saw a good (75% or so) chance of marrying him someday relatively soon. They wouldn't even START dating a guy unless they saw this chance out front. Both are examples of immaturity, just in different forms.

 

What I personally think is that you should always keep what you want in mind. If you want to get married some day, then you should focus more on people who are actually interested in long-term relationships. If you just want to have fun, well, focus on people who just want to have fun!

[Imprecision]

These days, whenever I meet a girl, I always tell her, "I'm a traditional man. I'm looking for a life partner to spend the rest of my life with."

 

They always appreciate this sort of answer.

 

While some women truly prefer a few years of dating around before marriage, I suspect many women say this, because 1. they are afraid of looking clingy, 2. they're afraid of getting hurt, or 3. they are afraid of looking desperate. It is, in some sense, a self-protective mechanism.

 

Virtually all women will tell you, "I will get married when I meet the right man." And that's exactly what it means. The reason they haven't gotten married yet is because they haven't met the right man. This means they have standards. They won't get married to just any random person, simply for the sake of marriage.

 

But would they like to have meaningful long-term relationships? Definitely.

 

So what does that mean for us guys? That means, just date anyone you want. Don't take women too seriously when they say they aren't looking for serious relationships. If she likes you, then she'll change her mind. If she doesn't like you, well then too bad.

 

females were traditionally thought to look for

longer-term potential, though these days, that is laughable.

 

This is not laughable. And in fact, this continues to govern all male-female relationships. The more I grow up, the more I find that traditional wisdoms about male-female relationships speak the truth. Some things never change.

[catfeeder]

I think a two-pronged approach is reasonable. You can set private goals for your future, but that doesn't make it wise to project those onto your initial dates, as the whole goal of dating is to get to know someone. This can be difficult when you start to treat dating like a screening process instead of allowing a natural bond to occur--because it's through this bond that you'll gain actual insight into a personality rather than limiting your experience to canned responses offered to a relative stranger.

 

There's wisdom in knowing what you are truly about, because this prevents you from attaching to people who are the antithesis of what you really want. At the same time, if early dating isn't treated casually enough, there's a forced and heavy quality to it that creates an unnecessary barrier to really learning about a person through relaxed eyes not fixed on an agenda.

 

That said, I do trust my gut when it comes to attraction. If someone repulses me, I don't make it a private requirement to be able to ID that response as though I must present my case to a judge and jury. It could be as quick as a dismissive attitude toward wait staff or something that flashes at me as a red flag--I trust myself to know certain things, and while I try not to be judgmental, I also honor my experience and intuition.

 

Some people can be casual with sex, and while I can appreciate that for others, it doesn't serve me personally, so that's a no-brainer for me. I'm not trying to define what I do as much as gain information. I also don't hold the same timelines and goals as one with, say, childbearing in mind. I don't own the same urgency as someone who's on a bio-clock.

 

Good topic, and my best,

Cat

[arcadefire]

I don't think you can step foot into anything, a job, a relationship, etc. knowing exactly what is planned for you and what is going to happen in the future. It is absolutely impossible.

 

With that said, I also don't believe in just having fun and games, because in the end it's not worth it. In the initial stages of dating, you should get a better hold of what kind of a partner you see in this person. Long term, go for it. Short term, keep looking.

[peppercorn]

Icarus, I couldn't agree with you more on every point you've made. I truly believe that people fall in love when they allow themselves to fall in love -- this means they've made decisions at one point or another that they want to be in a relationship, open up to another person, and share in their goals and dreams. And I've never been into flings or even fully casual dating, because to me it feels like an excuse not to start to care for another person. Perhaps I have too strong a position on this... but that's just how I feel...

[catfeeder]

Icarus, I couldn't agree with you more on every point you've made. I truly believe that people fall in love when they allow themselves to fall in love -- this means they've made decisions at one point or another that they want to be in a relationship, open up to another person, and share in their goals and dreams. And I've never been into flings or even fully casual dating, because to me it feels like an excuse not to start to care for another person. Perhaps I have too strong a position on this... but that's just how I feel...

 

Yep, this kind of clarity will prevent you from trying to take on the wrong men--such as allowing your ego to try to rehab a player, or putting up with anyone who'd try to rush you into sex out of fear of losing him. The idea of being flexible can be taken too far by people without a clear vision of themselves and what they truly want.

 

There's a huge difference between flexibility and 'doormat'.

[icarus27]

I took the casual approach in my late 20s/early 30s in between a very serious long-term relationship and when I was involved with my ex-fiance. It was a combination of needing to experiment a little with dating since I'd never done that and also not finding any men I wanted to be in a relationship with. You can have a goal but it doesn't mean you're going to find a man with those same goals! What do you mean by sell-by date? Could you please clarify?

 

Stella, by "sell by" date, I mean that when people date with only a short-term focus, they know that they will be with their current squeeze for a finite time. Despite what many say, I think it becomes quite obvious from a person's behaviour whether they are long-term bf / gf material. But the casual dater isn't bothered about such signs. The irony of these flings is that if either person told the other that they are only biding their time until something better comes along, the relationship would collapse immediately like a house of cards.

[icarus27]

Icarus, I couldn't agree with you more on every point you've made. I truly believe that people fall in love when they allow themselves to fall in love -- this means they've made decisions at one point or another that they want to be in a relationship, open up to another person, and share in their goals and dreams. And I've never been into flings or even fully casual dating, because to me it feels like an excuse not to start to care for another person. Perhaps I have too strong a position on this... but that's just how I feel...

 

I've noticed a customer-driven mentality take hold these days: people say they will commit when they are sufficiently wowed by the chemistry, the whatnot .... forgetting that if one looks for faults all the time, it is possible to find faults with absolutely EVERYONE. That then, becomes a blueprint for never committing to anyone or anything, continuously looking for some perfection that doesn't exist.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but such people only settle down when they are so dog tired of looking and game-playing that they will settle with whoever they are with at the time, regardless of whether that person is worth it or not. The same hard-nosed customer for whom no partner was good enough, suddenly settles for a person with faults, just because they believe time is running out for them.

 

I guess at the start of the thread, I alluded to the factor of time. Biological clock or not, we all have a limited time on this earth and an even shorter youth. Is drifting from one failed / abortive relationship to another really the best way to spend the best years of one's life?

 

Yes we learn a lot, but we grow embittered. Just look at the hurt people on eNA less and less able to feel love or open up or trust as they get older and older.

 

Pepper, I guess this is why I feel "knowing what you want" is as important in one's 20s as later on.

[yellow_sweater]

My bugbear is this: how do people who carry no specific goals in mind think they will ever get what they want? Do they think it will just magically happen?

 

Basically, yes.

 

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. You're making a relationship a goal, something to strive for, like an object to be attained, acquired, or possessed. This object will then lead you to happiness, fulfillment, avoidance of uncertainty, avoidance of being alone, etc.

 

What if you started from happiness? What if you started from a place of calmness with yourself and your place in the world? From a desire to care about and for others--rather than someone to care about you? What if you worked on acceptance of the fact that all relationships end at some point, instead of trying to find one that will last forever?

 

If you started from this place, I bet you would find it easy to surround yourself with people who are amazing, inspirational, who share your values--in short, prime relationship candidates.

 

In other words, if you (you singular, not you plural as in you and your significant other) know where you are, it's a lot easier to just let it happen.

 

Women who have taken the casual approach, how do you possibly know that when the casual period of your life ends, you will just 'chance' upon a man who happens to want the same objectives in life as you? And if you don't find it, are you happy with a life that is a string of involvements each of which has a built-in "sell-by" date?

 

I am 27 years old. I can't say that I've taken either of your approaches, but I'm probably a lot closer to your "casual" approach than the directed, "I want a husband" approach.

 

Right now, I am happy to be in a committed relationship in which neither marriage/ other legal or religious commitment nor children are expected nor wanted in the immediate future (next three years). I imagine that, in a few years, I will want to create my own family. I would love to create that family with my current boyfriend, but perhaps I will not. Perhaps I won't create my own biological family, at all. There are no guarantees that we get what we want in life, after all.

[icarus27]

yellow sweater, against my first instincts, you've really made me think. I've been pondering your post for a few days now. There could be a lot in it for me ... but it is almost as though I hesitate to accept that path you describe.

Thank you though.