rich_1517 - this is beginning to hurt a lot

[Beec]

Rich,

 

She doesn't respond to words, so you are going to tell her something? Why so she will once again not respond to your words?

 

Just back away after this weekend. Give her the good stuff, then cut her off for a little while. Don't call, don't email, don't contact her for a few days. Then you will be the aloof one, you will be the one she is wondering about. And, she won't take you so for granted.

 

If you tell her, she'll know what you are thinking and what is in your head, and that will hurt your game.

[majord23]

She feels that you are available, because you are available. That is a fact rich.

 

You are left with the dilemma that you now face....tell her to stop seeing you that way, or act so that she stops seeing you that way.

 

If you can change the way she feels by *telling* her to change, then why not tell her to fall in love with you while you're at it (just lightening things up a bit)

 

You can tell her that you feel as though you are being taken for granted, but you cannot tell her to *stop* taking you for granted....only a change in her perception of you will bring that about.

 

At the end of the day, my point is this rich:

Words without action are pointless.

Words with action are effective.

 

Giving up smoking rich...I have promised family and friends that I would give up smoking on numerous occasions...and failed. Their perception of me was someone who wasn't truly committed to it.

3 weeks ago, I told them again that I was quitting....their response? "Yeah, sure....we've heard that before".

 

3 weeks later and I haven't had a cigarette.....my friends now use me as a role model for other friends trying to quit.

 

Actions vs Words rich....Actions win every time.

[majord23]

Rich,

 

If you tell her, she'll know what you are thinking and what is in your head, and that will hurt your game.

 

Precisely Beec,

It's like revealing your big play to the opposition the night before the game.

 

rich,

You have to keep your cards close to your chest....don't tell her why you are acting differently....make her wonder!

[dikaia880]

Hey Rich,

I feel you on the smoking...it was an issue with my ex as well....

How 'bout we both quit...Sunday will be are last smokes...This could be two big steps by guys who are going to get their girls back by taking action? What do ya say?

[rich_1517]

ok Dikaia you are on, sunday it is. im using niccorrette becuase smoking on the patch is a death sentence for addiction. makes it ten times harder.

 

hmm doesnt she know already whats in my head? a marriage proposal and being willing to show up for "just dates" isnt exactly stealth.

 

or are we talking about just a change in behavior on the long haul. be less available? it still seems something is in order words wise.

 

i know her pretty well, she wouldnt read into my actions for a while. she would just be complacent.

 

as i said she is not the "go getter" she had to hang around me for three months solid until i would move in her again originally. came to my house to "vist" her co-worker, my roomate.

 

any "tricks" will fall short, on that shes pretty smart. she is the immovable object unless she is going to lose something.

 

there must be a way to communicate that without communicating it. the only thought that crosses my mind is another woman.

 

the other is to be direct

 

and of course just act. be less interested after the date. just say good night, hug and go home. but while on it have a blast.

[majord23]

^^^^8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)^^^^

 

Nice one lads

[Beec]

ok Dikaia you are on, sunday it is. im using niccorrette becuase smoking on the patch is a death sentence for addiction. makes it ten times harder.

 

Good luck to both of you.

 

It's a struggle, one I am able to deal with msot of the time, then along comes the night when I have a bunch to drink and someone is smoking near me, and the craving gets so bad and my inhibitions are low, and I have one, then another, then . . . (First weekend this month was one of them). Then the struggle is fighting the cravings for the next few days. If I can get off and have none the next weekend, then I will be good for a while.

 

Rich, have a bunch of nicorette with you tonight. She'll appreciate that you are trying. Don't make a big deal out of it.

[dikaia880]

Thats the gum right?

I've used the patch and the gum....

The patch worked, except even though I bought step two , by the afternoon I was getting sick from too much nicotine...The gum well it works, but I don't like how it makes my mouth and throat feel, plus when I'm having some drinks, it's easier to smoke than use the gum...

I'm going to get step 3 patch, when I'm on the patch i don't smoke, what so ever no matter how bad the craving, and not "run out" of them this time...it worked good, but I'd have to take them off right after work, and then I'd have a few smokes before bed...

Another interesting thing...I read one of the suggested articles on this site that said, & this it true for me. That smokers smoke to surpress feelings, when we feel down we smoke...and according to the article it forces our emotions into our lungs holding them there, which hurts our emotional health in the long run because we don't let those feelings out...It may be psychological, eastern, aural, or what ever kind of anti-scientific babble, but I think I believe it!

[rich_1517]

eeep! listen the quitting smoking stuff is great. yes its the gum.

 

but i just had a thought. what if we have a great time and she says, so whats next? meaning next date.

 

jeez i have been so busy being negative i havent thought about this one.

 

i guess my mood is anti right now, hmmm. time for overhaul again

[dikaia880]

If I were you, I would have some thoughts in mind, but I would not be too forward with them, I don't think you want to lead on that you were expecting the next date..

"I don't know we could...* previously thought of ideas* go bowling, hit up a movie, whatever it is"

But I think this is a great place to be a little reserved, laid back, and easy going...like you haven't been planning this all along, you know?

[Beec]

Just give her a big, "I don't know, I am am going to have to think about that." Being aloof and makign her wonder.

[rich_1517]

ok so the evening recap: i cooked fajitas. simple cheap and fun. she lvoed it complimented me. i let her help with some of it.

 

dinner was nice, we worked on a puzzle after. as usual fun banter back and forth. she was impressed.

 

we went to salsa and tango lessons, and man i didnt know the difference between being a good dance club dancer and technical dancing! im a pretty good smooth dancer, but the structure was messing me up. she on the other hand doesnt improvise well but is teachable so she did fine.

 

bottom line is we had fun, i was relaxed a little more distant and self contained.

 

after she wanted to go to coffee, i was hesitant then agreed. we both talked about it being a lot of fun. during dancing a couple of times she was going for very intimate eye contact and flirty with me, i smiled back.

 

she dropped me off, i hugged her goodnight and made no mention of next steps. i expected to be sad when i got in. i wasnt.

 

then she called wanting to chat on her way home, i played along knowing she has a forty minute drive ahead of her. then cut it off after a little making sure she was awake enough.

 

so the upshot? i was fun but aloof. not touching, even though she was as times. no kisses. no mention of future dates, but the kind of closeness going on seems like we will be talking real soon.

 

so now its how i play it from here. i could let things keep growing and getting closer.

 

i am thinking about her less and staying in my own space more, meaning i dont feel overly nervous or exposed. i suppose if she starts to suggest things its time to keep going, we are very close. suggestions welcome.

 

and yes rich did very good tonight. i feel like me again. even if it went bad i still would feel this way.

 

there is something to be said for showing up in the face of not getting what you want emotionally, its healing. difficult yes but very character building.

[LostinVan]

I got nothing much to say except, I think the evening went just about perfect, Rich! Keep to your plan, mate.

 

LostinVan, who wishes he could go on a date with the ex

[GeeCee]

Oooooh Rich - looks like you are getting back in to the groove.

 

Now, my advice would be to mix up your signals. You are slowly reeling her back in, now pull away. Don't become too predictable. Wait for her to suggest the next move. She will be expecting you to do so. Don't do it.

 

G xx

[rich_1517]

thanks for the support, i really coudlnt be doing this without you guys. you have helped me do something i never would have thought possible in the past.

 

I have shown up in the face of no hope and no emotions from someone i love. its a level of strength and self respect i have always wanted to get to.

 

i know that sounds negative. its not. along the way i realised this is about me as much as my wanting her back. but we all know all too well that love and a partner can disapear seemingly on the turn of a switch or feeling or reason.

 

I have to prepare myself that she may be dating others. this whole time period is as much a test for her as it is for me. meaning i have to take a hard look at who i have chosen.

 

she may be using this as a spring board to date again. not a happy thought but possible. so now its how much distance, how much aloof?

 

lets face it her cage needs to be rattled, she has to start knowing that i am not for free, as long as she can take me for granted im screwed.

 

i have successfully gotten my life pointed in a direction again

i have shown i can change and do new things

i have shut up about feelings and analysis

i look good (stress weight loss is awesome, im joking)

i have been fun and outgoing, supportive and interested in her life

 

so yes independace from her is now a very good idea. the i dont care whether you want to see me or not attitude. so tactics my friends. the reeling in must be seen to be effortless. ideas?

[GeeCee]

So Rich - go easy on yourself, and the game-playing will become routine, part of your subconscious thought.

 

You are doing all the right things - working on yourself, asking if this is really all that you want, look at all eventualities.

 

Surely this is the unconscious act of reeling her in. She knows that you are around, she knows that you want her, now let her know that you will not be a doormat. Do not allow yourself to be available for her every whim. This is difficult, I know, but what you need now is for her to initiate the next date or contact. In order for her to do that, I think that you need to give her some space. So, do not plan the next date. Let her start thinking. Mix it up a bit. Presumably, she will now be expecting you to suggest more of the same. DON'T. She is not having to work too hard here. You are constantly in fifth gear. Now is the time to go into a little cruise control. Take it down a gear, with the hope that she will take control for a little. Remember, sometimes less is more.

 

Hope this helps.

 

G xx

[Beec]

I agree with GeeCee. Just withdraw from contacting ehr for a few days and see what happens. You want to see if you can get her to come to you. Last night sounds like it was a really good night, well-planned and executed.

 

If in a few days she has not contacted you, then you need to think about what to do next proactively, but give her a chance to come to you. When she does, by the way you were tongiht on the phone or however you communicate. See if she suggests something.

[rich_1517]

a difficult period to be sure. this is the point where people would be thinking "hmm is this worth pursuing?"

 

not to over think (HAH). but the way she wanted to get together three days in a row this week makes me feel like she was setting up her time off without her son. this when she does ALL her personal stuff, and of course the most likely time to.... yep go on a date. i hate to see her in this light, but i have to honest, if she is looking at me to decide, she is going want comparison..... i thought about this last week too. but all i have to do is remember "she is not my girl, i have options myself"

 

ok so a low moment, but grrrrrr. what the hell i have gotten myself into. I dont know if i can do the date me date others thing. a family member called it a while ago, he said if you dont press her on a committment she will leave this as ambigous as she can at your expense.

 

not a glowing review of her i know.

 

time to get out of the house and head. this is the part where you shut off the mind and become "even" more of that better person. more confident, grounded, attractive etc. increase the loss factor on one hand or be more attractive to someone knew. (they knew what they were talking about when they wrote that part)

[rich_1517]

crap. it took two days for me to realise im much flatter than i thought.

 

im being judged right now on my "fun to date and sexual appeal" catagory. i would say the places and things are great. my sense of humor and confidence decent. but im blocked from aggressive flirting and approach.

 

im still gun shy and hurt underneath. i park it and hide it and and. it works but it leaves a guy who is kind of under control. she wants more passion in her life under control doesnt fit that bill.

 

i will not keep trying to be everything she wants, but i do want to be more fun again. i have set the stage that allows her to take me for granted and i am doing the "no contact" to get her attention that way. but...

 

i have to sort some things out to get more "fun" into rich.

 

but the fact is she is slightly immature right now. she seems to block herself off from passion while in a relationship, then wants it all when out. then gets back in etc etc.

 

i may still be associated with the "block" she doesnt know exists.

 

i am getting ready to send the letter. i think its the only way to address not being taken for granted and that bringing passion to a relationship requires wanting it as a life component not a reaction to being repressed.

 

I messed up and forced her to play to my tune about committment, she forced me to live a life with limited passion. thats the letter.

[Beec]

Rich, no letter. Please no letter. She is not ready for it. There will be a time for you to withdraw and play these cards. But until she is really falling for you, you should withhold from doing it. When she is falling for you, you lead her astray to territory with which she is uncomfortable.

 

Just keep to yourself, then when you are ready to be fun again, make some plans.

[rich_1517]

Beec

heres where my expereince this area comes into play. BUt i will go for a long ride, walk, work out friends etc. to try and get some perspective first

 

she has said "i want more passion in my life" "it was my choices in men that i shut down"

 

there is no escaping that one. she will not "allow" passion to occur as long as she will not consider the possiblity that her not wanting to experience strong joy or disappointment are the reasons for her lack of passion.

 

all of her relationships have failed on this point.

 

the irony is i am very passionate and intimate, we have all the components but the passion was something she controlled.

 

if it isnt addressed she will never go there, she will want to bust out again from a repressive situation she sees as the cause and distance herself from the "joy" and "disapoinment" we now have her reasons for such hesitation in the face of love. her confusion makes sense.

 

the letter which i will post later is first "we cannot overcome friends as long as that exists" and "i am letting go"

 

one key fact here is i cannot be "myself" without some sense of openness returning. she is running this show, but without that concept on the table nothing can happen.

 

i will consider very strongly whether to send it but this honors my own feelings and what i believe to be the truth. she will have to "want" to change that perception for any passion to remerge, there is no other way.

 

I know her too well. and if seh chooses to not face it i dont want her anyway, this would always come back and bite me. and lets face it my walking will either have an impact or it wont but we will both respect me more.

[Beec]

My whole issue is not in your logic, but with your timing. She will do much of what you want, if you time it right. Timing it right will be to wait for an occasion when she actually chases you when you withdraw, then go back in give her the good stuff, emotional fulfillment once again, then withdraw and make it a point that you are doing so because she needs to change.

 

I know you bought the book Art of Seduction, read the portions about how D.H. Lawrence acted. He went in boosted his targets emotions, then withdraw and required tham to follow, and give up everything.

 

Your move is good. Make sure of the timing.