When do you call it abuse?

[funkygirl758]

On three different occasions, I have had a baby bottle thrown at me(it hit me and hurt), I have been shoved, and my husband took my face in his hands and just kind of squashed my face in his hands.

Does this look like it could be a precursor for more/worse abuse? Am I over reacting? I did not touch him before he did this by the way. We had just been arguing. I talked to my husband about this and he thinks I am way overreacting. But what do you think? My gut doesn't like whats going on.

[avman]

Your gut is telling you the right thing. Yes this is likely the precursor to something worse. You are not overreacting, this is abuse.

 

You have done NOTHING to deserve what he has done to you. If he EVER touches you like that again, call the police and file domestic abuse charges. No screwing around, call the police. And tell your husband you want him to get into some serious counseling. He isn't going to just get better on his own if he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong.

 

Please keep us up to date on what is happening with you. I will help you find any resources necessary to make sure you are safe. They have many, many services that are available to help you and your children in these situations. You are NOT alone.

 

Please PM me if I can help you in any way. I wish you peace and safety.

 

avman

[skittles]

You should always trust your instincts. When people have problems, they tend to ignore or don't believe they are that type of person, denial. Has he ever hit your or done anything violent to you in the past? How long have you two been together? If you think that there maybe something wrong, even if he doesn't, I think you should talk to someone close to you and that you trust. Maybe even get a counslor to talk to. I hope that everything works out.

[Frodo Baggins]

Yes, there is no excuse for what you've taken. It most definitely is abuse, and av is right in saying you should call the police immediately. This most definitely is a precursor to more abuse, he won't stop on his own, and it won't get any lighter. Please keep us up to date on anything that happens to you.

[kuhl282000]

I had a friend a few years back who was hit by a baby bottle thrown by her husband. It hit her in the face, and "Yes" I remember her telling me it hurt real bad when it hit. She called the police, and he went to jail for his actions, they are divorced now thank god. So to answer your question, Yes, this is abuse no questions ask. And to my understanding it only gets worse if no corrected. I take a clear cut and dry stance on abuse. It does not belong in loving relationships. And if the abuse continues, it can esculate especially if alcohol is ever involved. And alot of really bad things end up happening to you, from a mental standpoint. If this person will not get help, RUN like the wind as fast as you can.

 

I'm glad you caught it early

 

Kuhl

[DiglyD]

A man does not need to hit or abuse a woman. There are many people who have the belief that you need to keep a a woman on a tight leash or hit her from time to time to show her her place. This is insecurity and messed up way of thinking on part of the man.

 

There is no need to hit a woman ever. A man is the protector, he is the one who should protect, appreciate and care for the woman he has chosen to be with.

 

A man who will hit you is not a man who has control of himself and his emotions.

 

However keep this in mind. All you are getting from these posts is a one sided response. Everyone here is paining your man as a bad guy, until you get enough responses that will justify this belief. At this point you will want out. Why does he do this to you? Did you do anything to make him do it? What did you say? What was the trigger? Have you told him to stop? I mean really told him, looked him in the eye and said NEVER EVER LAY A HAND ON ME AGAIN. Its about communication.

 

I honestly believe that violence in a relationship is bad, and this can lead to abuse, however this might also be your way of looking for a way out becasue of other reasons like you not being content in the relationship, maybe being stressed out, and you are using this as an excuse to get rid of him, to justify to yourself that He is the bad guy. You already made the choice and now you are looing for affirmation and agreement from others that your choice was the right one. You are fishing for justification. You are fishing for reasons to justify to yourself that he is a bad man so that you can leave your relationship for whatever reason or you are beginning to think that you are unhappy. Be careful. Find the real motives behind it all. Is it him? if you have a baby, is it the baby? Do you feel trapped? Overburdened with responsibility? Do you feel neglected, or forgotten? Does he not pay enough atention to you? Do you need help or want more out of life? Are you beginning to feel like this is not what you wanted out of life? Do you want things to work out? Are you happy?, be honest... or do you want something else? Look within your own heart first.

 

Are your feelings really feelings of fear of being abused or feelings that you want out and are looking for reasons to justify to yourself your man is actually a bad guy who needs to be left behind even if he really isnt. Are you just looking to displace and relieve your guilt for what you are about to do but are afraid to?..which is leave the relationship. Or are you really scared becasue you love this man you want to be with him but you want him to be the man you always wanted and not someone who would hurt you. I am getting a feeling that you are not happy with him and for whatever reason he's not living up to your "ideal man" image in your head and you have already in the back of your mind started to have mixed feelings about him.

 

From my experience I have learned that if a woman is not happy for whatever reason in a relationship and can't find a good reason to leave, then she will make up a reason even if its completely untrue, until she convinces herself that she is right in her thinking so she can minimize her guilt, transfer it onto her partner and have a way out.

 

He might be right, you might be over reacting. I don't know. I personally would not want to have my face squished, but at the same time I undrstand that some guys tend to be a little rough and don't really mean it. Sometimes they also just loose their cool but they don't necessarily want to abuse you. I mean so far he has not slapped you, or hit you with his hands.

 

You ask if this could be a precurser to worst abuse? Thats like meeting a black man in Harlem and asking me if whether he might steal your car? You are making allot of assumptions. There are allot of details missing here. What were the circumstances during all of this?

 

Without hearing his reasons, his side of the story its hard to make a real call. Without all the details that you left out its difficult to say. This is the danger with forums such as this. They give a one sided opinion to everything. I learned that there is always a catalyst. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...you must have said someting for him to throw a bottle at you, or squash your face, you must have done something. I am sure he didn't just come home one day from work, said "Hi honey, how was your day" put his coat down walked into the kitchen and out of the blue started to squash your face. Something triggered it. What happened? Don't paint him as the bad guy and don't paint yourself as an innocent princess as pure as freshly fallen snow to gain sympathy, and confirmation of your already predetermined and prejudged way of thinking. Paint both sides of the picture, and explain what you said and what you did that led to you being hurt. Ask him why he did it and post his reasons behind it.

 

if he hurt you out of the blue, and you said and did nothing then leave him. Its abuse. If he couldn't find the remote control to the TV and hit you or you dropped something on the floor and he hit you for it because he was looking for an excuse to vent his frustrations then leave now. Its abuse. If he got drunk and hit you then leave its abuse. If he yelled at you when you said nothing to fire himeself up and threw stuff at you then tell him to seek councelling or you will leave. It wil llead to abuse....

 

But If you triggered it, fired up his emotions, messed with his head, argued with him, instigated it, or manipulated him knowing full well he would react like this, because somehting else is going on and you are looking for excuses to turn him into a bad guy, or you just want out or you are not happy...then have the guts and the decency to admit that you are not happy for other reasons and don't attempt to paint him as a man who abuses a woman so you can get a justification for your feelings. Don't look to just displace blame and find an excuse.

 

Ask yourself if you are truly happy overall. What do you really want? Talk to him. Communicate now while there is still a chance. Don't make a decision on your own and drop a bomb on him later. If you have already made up your mind nothing I say will matter and you will skip this message and just read all the ones that say "yup it sounds like abuse" You already made up your mind. ...don't do that. Take what I say to heart.

if you are not happy then confront your husband and either try to work something out or tell him you must leave because you are not happy for your reasons. Don't blame him. Don't leave him and make him into a wife beater if he does not deserve it. if he truly does thats another sotry. Either way guys need to be hit over the head and hints don't help in order to realize when they mess up. You need to yell to get his attention if you want things to work out between you and gain the happiness that you seek.

[neallo82288]

Well, baby, it sounds like abuse to me, but We do not know what your relationship is truly like. Check out this Topic and you will find a post by a moderator that will give you some more insight in whether or not this is abuse. My opion is that you will find what is described in that post alot of your husband in there and you must get out and now.

 

www.enotalone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16634

 

Hope you know what you see and will get help for yourself and your husband before it is too late.

[avman]

I'm sorry but I must take exception to MadCats comments.

 

There is NO EXCUSE for abuse. Absolutely none. I really don't care what started the argument or whether anything started the argument. Throwing a baby bottle at your face is ABUSE. Plain and simple.

 

Trying to shift the blame onto the abused is just simply wrong. You can't "overreact" to abuse. She is being physically injured at his hand. She should not HAVE to tell her to stop because he shouldn't be doing it in the first place. Its still a criminal charge whether she told him she doesn't like it or not.

 

Those arguments have been used by abusers for years "She made me do it". "She drove me to it". "She deserved it". Well those are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Nobody ever deserves to be on the receiving end of violence. Period.

 

*steps down off soapbox*

[DiglyD]

Avman I was not trying to shift blame to the abused. Its not about making an exuce for abuse. You have already "deduced" that abuse if fact did take place. Did it? You do not have all the facts. Maybe what I said did not come out right. There is no excuse for abuse I agree, but there is such a thing as manipulation, and such a thing as not stating all the facts.

 

My neigbour's wife called the cops on her husband a few weeks ago and cried wolf. I'm talking to the guy, he is mowing the lawn, and his wife runs out of the house out of the blue with a crystal vase the size of a football. Smack she hits her husband on the back of the head with it yelling that she told him not to mow the lawn. Blood is gushing from the guy's head. He pushes her away, before he collapses. She freaks out, and calls the cops, and demands that they arrest him because according to her He Hit her when he pushed her away. By the way the guy is passed out on the cement at this point his head cracked open. That was complete BS. Being the witness I talk the the cops and she ends up going to jail for the night. Her husband is now corss eyed forever and still taking her crap. Its not like this is some ghetto...we're talking a pretty afluent nighbourhood and the guy is a lawyer.

 

Who is the victim here? According to her its her, and he is the bad guy. According to him, he is the victim and his wife is crazy. Its all a matter of how much information you get before you make a judgment call. You and everyone else on this board instantly screams "This guy is scum its abuse". I do not condone violence, and abuse of women in any way. But I also try to see both sides of the story before I make a determination before crying and accusing anyone of being an abuser. If I wasn't there when that guy got hit to make a statement he would have been the bad guy.

 

My mother used to throw large dinner plates at my dad when he came home after a 15 hour work day becasue she hated him. She would try to grab his hands when he was making food or when he was holding a plate of chicken or something to try to get him to accidently hit her with it as he was trying to pull away from her while pleading with her to stop. If that did not work she would yank the plate out of his hands and throw it at his head like a frisbee, in hopes of cutting him or provoking him into violence. My father would try his best to walk away, to ignore her, or just let the plate hit him on the head and not react, but there were moments when after working 14 hours and commuting another 2.5 he got so fed up and upset (becasue it happened every day-thats abuse) and walked up to her and grabed her by the arm and told her to stop. He would do it only when she grabbed some large knife because at that point she would be hysterical, uncontrollable, and in a maniacal rage throwing everyitng from forks, to knives, to the blender at his face in an effort to hurt him physically in some way. If he touched her in any way just trying to protect his face from being cut while she was in her rage or even if he didn't, she would make something up, call the cops and try to have him arrested. She for years abused him and he spent more days suffering at her expense then I can count. She got away with it becasue she is a woman.

 

All I am saying is that the whole story was not present here, and "I got a baby bottle thrown at me it hurt" and "I was shoved" is not abuse all in itself. My girlfriend threw a dictionary at my head a few times when she was angry at me and it hurt like hell. She pushed me once into a bookshelf which collapsed on top of me because she got pissed that she lost a game of Monopoly when I was rubbing it in that I won. It does not necessarilly mean that I was being abused. Everyone recounts a story in their own fashion, from their perspective, and they usally make it seem much worse or greater then it is.

 

Its not about shifting blame, its about hearing the whole story. Just because a woman cries "I''ve been abused" does not necessarily mean that its true or that instantly the man is guilty or that abuse did in fact happen. Baby bottles are not always violence (its not just black and white), being hit with a baseball bat on a daily basis is violence, getting beaten with a belt is violence, being kicked in the head is violence, being raped is violence, being verbally put down is violence, being dominated is violence. Throwing baby bottles can lead to real pysical abuse but what she describes are isolated incidents that do not have a pattern of abuse yet or at least from her limited description. More ifo is needed. I do however think that her getting her had squashed is a sign of abuse and is abuse and probably her situation is slowly escalating to real abuse. It implies abuse because he put his hands on her in a way that seems to imply great discomfort. A man should never put his hands on a woman in theory, but in practice as I stated in the example of my parents its easier said then done. There are women out there that are manipulative and use the knowledge of their husband against him, and use the system to get away with whatever they can. I am not saying that his lady is such a woman but I am saying that what we heard was very limited information, and she did argue with her husband. Who is to say that she did not piss him off intentionally by speaking words that would make him loose his cool? My ex knew me better then I knew myself. She knew exactly what buttons to push and when, and there were times when she did it on purpose just to get a reaction from me that she knew she could count on. (there is always that posibility). All you know of this person is a screen name, and less then a paragraph of text. You have no idea who she is, what has happened, and how it happened, and yet you have already decided that "abuse" did take place. How arrogant of you to make such an assumption.

 

Like I said, not enough information. But form the little that was posted, we can hypothesise that most likely though, what is happening here is probably warning signs of upcoming abuse on a much greater level, and the husband could probably benefit from counseling or she should confront her husband, or if that does not work then get out because this will lead to worse things if this guy cannot control his anger that is if he in fact threw the bottles at her, shoved her and squashed her head when he was angry. Maybe he was just messing with her, maybe she was going crazy? See you don't know. You don't have the whole story.

 

She said her husband thinks she is over reacting, and she does not even herself know if this is abuse. Trust me if you are being abused you know its abuse. What do you mean she is being physically injured at his hand? Everyone needs to keep things in perspective here. You are making it sound like he is kicking the crap out of her on a daily basis and she has photos to prove her bodily injuries. Its all assumptions on your part. Maybe I am dumb and have no idea how a baby bottle is and whether its plastic or glass or how much it weights, and how much force it can have and whether or not it can be used as a weapon. We don't even know how big her husband is. For all you know she might waigh 190lb and her husband is a 140lb weakling. Of course it can be the other way around too, she can be a petite blonde, and he is a 250lb linebacker. This type of information changes the situation and the perspective. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to defend him. I hate scumbags who hit their wives or hurt them in any way whether verbally or physically. I personally would be the first guy to stop someone like that if I saw it happen. As a matter of fact I have done so in the past at my own personal risk. But what she said is very limited, and open to assumption. She might be exagerating for all you know. What she has said is very subjuctive and can be taken in a variety of ways. Its actually written in a way that makes you think that it is abuse. She is already thinking this, she is just looking for confirmation from everyone her that she is right. Most likely she is right, and she is a smart woman becasue she senses danger. However if she wanted to be objective she would have worte much more detail, and posted her husbands feeling on the issue, and illustrated what the argument was about, what she said and what buttons she pushed to have her man react in such a terrible manner. But I agree with you that no matter what the reason is he should not lay a hang on her and should be man enough to control his own emotions. She does not need to put with crap like that. No woman should.

 

In all fairness I do think that he guy is one step away from abuse if not there already. He is taking their arguments too far in a way that she finds just plain wrong and physically unacceptable. Men who cannot control their anger usually tend ot hurt woman. Like I said in my post a man should never ever hit a woman no matter what. His job is to care for her, love her and protect her. My only pet peeve, and why I posted what I poseted is that I just don't agree with the one mind mentality which instantly without any real proof and with limited information jumps onto the woman's side and proclaims any man the devil. Its not always black and white. But if she has a little voice inside her telling her its wrong then she should listen to it and split before something worse happens. Form what she says, that she did not do anything it makes me feel that he crossed a line he should not have crossed and its her turn to get out before it gets worse.

 

I guess I have a different perspective on abuse in general because the word itself without any real tangible action can be used as a weapon by a woman aginst a man who does not abuse anyone or never did like my father. He was just a honest guy stuck with a bad woman who used her position as a woman to make his life a living hell. By seeing my parents at each other's throats in a drawn out seperation and divorce going through all levels of the legal system, I have learend how skewed the system is toward women and how it and society in general is positioned against men, and how "some" women have learned to use and abuse the system to get their own ends.

 

I do not believe that this is such a case, like I said before most likely this lady has every right to be concerned, but hearing more information before we all make a judgment call would be nice.

 

you are right though nobody deserves to be at the recieving end of violence no matter what.

[avman]

Madcat,

 

I think I understand what you are saying. But just to counter a couple of your points.

 

Trust me if you are being abused you know its abuse

In many cases, the receiver of the abuse in fact does NOT know they are being abused. It may seem hard to believe, but I have seen this over and over again. The love they have for the abuser is so strong, and the abuser has such a power hold over the abused that they literally don't know they are being abused.

 

I do understand your point about some people making it up. However, in the case that you mentioned I do not think that woman would have bothered to come here and ask for advice first. And of course, you saw that whole thing and knew exactly what happened. In fact HE was the one being abused. Socioeconomic status does not matter one bit - as you have rightly pointed out. We rarely have the whole story on this site. So we must advise by what we hear, and our experience. All of our advice is "assuming the story is true". If we second guessed everything, then we would never get any advice out

 

This statement:

"I got a baby bottle thrown at me it hurt" and "I was shoved" is not abuse all in itself.

is simply not true. That incident alone is chargeable as domestic abuse, and battery. It only takes one incident to be charged as abuse. You may not see your girlfriend thowing a dictionary at your head as abuse, but the law does.

 

You have no idea who she is, what has happened, and how it happened, and yet you have already decided that "abuse" did take place. How arrogant of you to make such an assumption

As I stated, we are here to give advice and to help those who asked. I would be useless as an advice giver if I thought everyone here was lying about their situation. Notice I did not tell her to leave him. I told her to call the police. The police will sort out what happened. If her story is true (which I believe it is) then the police will see that (or the court system will figure that out). If her story is false, then the police will see that also or she will not call the police in the first place. Please do not call me arrogant for choosing to give our members the benefit of the doubt and advising them accordingly. I have a very low tolerance for abuse and I see it ALL THE TIME. And 90% of the people being abused sit and suffer silently about it. As did your father - which I am VERY sorry to hear about.

 

Who is to say that she did not piss him off intentionally by speaking words that would make him loose his cool?

Still not an excuse for violence. Sorry, he has many other law abiding options in this case - like LEAVING the house. This is where I see you trying to shift the blame to the victim "She made me do it". And I'm not with you on this. The decision to commit violence is a CHOICE. And that choice must have serious consequences.

 

I am not a police officer, nor a judge, and I do not sit on the jury of this case. Those are the people who will ultimately have to decide innocence or guilt. I stand by my comments that the legal system should be involved, and counseling should be invoked. This is not a wait and see type case. I still say if he touches her again, she should call the police.

 

Oh and please do not get me wrong. I am NOT posting that all women are good and all men are evil. That is not my point at all. I hope you did not take it as that. If a man is being abused by a woman (as your father was) then I would give the man the EXACT same advice. He should not be putting up with it either.

[Realitybites]

Funkygirl,

This must be a terribly confusing and difficult time for you. And reading madcats posts can't have made the situation any easier.

Abuse is a phenomenon that leaves deep scarring, in the abused, abuser and everyone around like children. You should try to keep your head as clear as possible right now. And the very first thing to take into consideration is your and your child's (children's) safety. That's why we have laws.

All humans have an ABOSLUTE right to physical integrity: men, women, children, jerks, saints, the good and the bad. That means that no matter what, despite manipulation, mind games or ulterior motives that you may or may not have resorted to, one thing is extremely clear: No one has a right to lay a hand on you in the way that you have described. No matter what lead to it. And that's absolute. Such acts are simply forbidden. And that's nothing you or your husband can change. The act of violence is a criminal offence. period.

Both of you will definitely need counselling. But stopping the abuse has to be the top and most urgent priority right now.

As for madcat, I understand where you are coming from, but you are mixing two things with eachother. Physical abuse is always black and white. It's wrong no matter how much manipulation or provocation has preceded it.

Having said that, abused people have the power to avoid the cycle of violence by not resorting to the manipulation that unfortunately can exist in abusive relationships. But the legal issue is not influenced by this whatsoever.

Now if I am being abused, I have a responsibility to myself (and my children) to make sure I am not subjected to violence FIRST and the law will back me up on that. I also should work on avoiding any manipulative behaviour on my part SECOND, to make sure I don't increase the risk of abuse in the future. There are no laws that can force me to that. That is a choice I will have to make on my own. But even if I didn't, even if I continue provoking my partner into a state where he/she loses control, the burden of the violence itself still lies SQUARELY with the abuser. Physical violence is much more dangerous than manipulative behaviour or emotional abuse. Thats' why the law is so clear. And there's a reason for that. People seldom die as a direct consequence of emotional abuse. But plenty of people die as a result of physical abuse. Are you getting the picture here? I hope so.

[avman]

Thank you Realitybites. That was very well put.

 

avman

[fixer]

Contrary to what SOME songs may say, "Love" is NOT suppose to Hurt.

IF for whatever reason you have doubts then by all means DO rely on your Gut or Instincts.

If he is causing you Fear , Pain , or Discomfort in any way in any measure,YOU need to remove yourself from that scene.

Check in your area for the nearest Womans Shelter, they are equipped and have the ability to help you as well as guide you in making the right decision.

They also have the means to protect you from whatever threats he may make.

PLEASE be safe and get the help you need.

[crookster_man]

Off topic, but the song in question stating love hurts is in regards to emotional pain that comes from all the many strange things love does to us. Whether in a long lasting relationship or at the end of the road, love can and does hurt us. We always hurt the ones we love, because to love is to open up ourselves. To make ourselves venerable.

 

As for this topic, I'm impressed with the discussion thus far. Very interesting. I agree with both of you to an extent. The word "abuse" is definitely a loaded word and with It brings immediate perceptions and misconceptions.

 

As for women abusing the system, men have been doing that forever, forcing their partner to suffer in silence. There will always be corruption in any legal system, this is unfortunate, but it's the best system we have.

 

Regardless of the circumstances surrounding the "abuse" if you feel uncomfortable about something then it should be address, if your feel it was an accident then let it go. Abuse can only take place if one person deliberately harms another against their will.

[routerx]

Any time someone makes physical contact with you without your consent, that is abusive.

 

Any time someone torments you mentally, that is abusive.

 

A GREAT RULE OF THUMB.. IF YOU THINK SOMETHING MAY BE WRONG.. YOU ARE RIGHT!

 

You are NOT overreacting.

[crookster_man]

See you have to be careful here, anytime someone makes physical contact with you against your will is NOT always abuse. What about accidents? People hurt others unintentionally without it being abuse.

 

Also mental torment is not always abuse. Many times we suffer "mental torment" because we create situations in our minds which do not exist or someone treats us in a way which they believe is normal and acceptable but to use we are hurt. (Unrequited love)

 

Now obviously these are the edge of what is acceptable, but I just want you to understand that abuse is not so cut and dry. Just because we think it is wrong doesn't mean it is. Yes, quite often we are right, however, there are situations in which we manifest feelings and emotions where there should be none.

 

Every story has 2 sides. If you feel that you are being wronged, I would most definitely act on that feeling. However, just because you feel wronged doesn't mean your truly are.

 

As I stated before, abuse can only take place if one person deliberately harms another against their will.

[EmptySoul]

Yes, this is abuse, and you shouldnt have to put up with it. Also, it wouldn't be wise to sit around and hope for things to get better, they usually get worse.

EmptySoul

[funkygirl758]

Madcat,

I actually appreciate your open mindedness and consideration for the other side on this subject. I apologize if I seem quick to scream, Abuse! I am just trying to discern whether this is "normal" activity in everyday relationships, or worse than the norm.

My mom and dad were abusive to eachother maybe more of my mom to my dad but, anyways, then she got in another abusive relationship. So I need to make sure that I am being subjective and not jaded myself. Hopefully, that makes sense.

 

Funkygirl

[funkygirl758]

Thanks for all of the replies. NOw, I just need to work on the situation and figure out what to do. I appreciate the support when I come here.

[XxBadMonkExX]

u sound alot like my mom, she got this boyfriend who is the father of my two half sisters, well ne ways at first it started out as arguing, then physical abuse happened, she even came to me and my dad's house once, her hair was falling out, because it had been pulled so hard, and she had a black eye, which had swollen the next day, also she had gotten 3 broken ribs from him. this wasn't the first time, and I don't think it will be the last. She called the police the next day, and went to hospital she was about to file charges, but she changed her mind. and went crawling back to him, begging for forgiveness, now she is in Florida fighting for my sisters, and she unemployed because her "boyfriend" said that she couldn't make it in the business world. It's been three years now and I haven't seen her, I only get a call every month, and she cries every time, and tells me that she will be home soon. Get away as soon as u can or u will end up like mom, and wanted love and got abused.