Offensive?

[jettison]

Ok, I have a dilemma. My offensive meter is often malfunctioning or just missing entirely. This is probably reason 1A why I could never be a Mod on ENA for example. Nothing really offends me, and I can rarely tell when I'm offending others. Other people are born with this innate ability, and some folks are quick learners, but it's all Greek to me.

 

In any case, I am creating a new little design company, and the name of our company is "Migrant Working Bees". It's kind of a cross between migrant workers and worker bees. Is that offensive for some people? One can read anything they want into anything these days so unless I name my site "American Apple Pie, Stars and Stripes Forever" then I'll certainly offend someone, but unfortunately, that name is already taken so I'll have to make do with an alternative.

 

My website has a bee theme, and all I think of are these migrating bees that travel from place to place, working hard, and tending to the internet fields for long hours and poor pay. That's me!

 

Ok, so?

[cfcommunist]

i don't see anything wrong with it. There is always somone who will find offense in the simpleist things.

 

Take my avatar for example.. it's a Soviet Medal from the great patriotic war (WW2). I use it on nearly every site im registered on. I don't go around telling people "Praise stalin" "Yay russia!" "down with america" or anything else along those lines. To me it is simply symbolic of my heritage which i am proud of. I make no effort to force that or my beliefs on any one, Yet i have received hate mail and even threats about it on several sites.

 

Everyone feels the need to be so dang PC these days, it's out of hand! If you dont moderate and censor every line of every thing someone craps them selves over it. but to answer your question, no i see nothing wrong with it.

[Emernate]

I guess it depends on what part of the country you are in. I don't think that would fly too well in Southern California, but in Boston it would probably go over most peoples heads.

 

It's the Migrant Worker part that would get people over here. (Kind of a hot issue now with the immigration debate). If you are not targeting anyone in the Southwest.. shouldn't be an issue.

[jettison]

I think it's a cute/cool name for a company.

As long as you can deliver good work, they shouldn't be offended. And if they are that whiney, you won't want them as clients, anyway! Trust me!

 

Thanks! I liked it, and it was the very first name I thought of... took me all of 3 minutes. Since I've already desinged the site, and reserved the name, and I'm hesitant to change. My friend just asked me "Is that offensive" and I would have never imagined it was unless she asked.

 

I guess it depends on what part of the country you are in. I don't think that would fly too well in Southern California, but in Boston it would probably go over most peoples heads.

 

It's the Migrant Worker part that would get people over here. (Kind of a hot issue now with the immigration debate). If you are not targeting anyone in the Southwest.. shouldn't be an issue.

 

Well, is it offensive to call someone a "migrant worker"? I'm actually from SoCal, and is that not what a, ummm, migrant worker is called? Is there a more PC term? Would it be offending the actual migrant workers, the people fighting for migrant worker's rights, or the rich folks who make policy for migrant workers but don't even personally know any?

 

In any case, I live in NorCal now. We have the Mission District. It's possible that some folks will blink, but no one as of yet has told me, unequivocally, "that is offensive!" So far, a few people have just said "I'm not sure."

 

I think it may stick. For whatever it's worth, I think of "migrant workers" as people who work really, really hard, but are underpaid. I could have called my site "The Nightshift Nurses" as well.

[Mythical_Suicide]

Everyone is so uptight these days.. I see nothing wrong with it but as someone else said there are people who live such miserable lives that they have to fight and find something wrong with everything. I like the name

[Emernate]

I think it comes more from people assuming all migrant workers are illegal immigrants. Calling someone an illegal immigrant could be offensive to some.

 

Just don't give your bees sombrero's.

[Mythical_Suicide]

 

Just don't give your bees sombrero's.

 

LOL! that would be kinda funny/cute.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

There is an expression "When in doubt, leave it out". The internet is read worldwide, not just by Americans. There are migrant workers in many countries and they typically have sub-standard working conditions and are not treated very well by their employers. So while I understand that bees migrate and bees all work for the Queen bee, there could be offense taken from some people because of the migrant worker link.

[jettison]

There is an expression "When in doubt, leave it out". The internet is read worldwide, not just by Americans. There are migrant workers in many countries and they typically have sub-standard working conditions and are not treated very well by their employers. So while I understand that bees migrate and bees all work for the Queen bee, there could be offense taken from some people because of the migrant worker link.

 

 

I see the link, and that was really the point of the turn of phrase, but I still don't see the offensive part unless you're telling me that the term "migrant worker" is in and of itself offensive. I realize that they are usually very poor people, and that actually fits in quite well with the price model I've introduced to my clients. Similarly, I wouldn't call myself "Trustafarian Diva Design" because that may give the wrong impression.

 

If I called myself "Ditch Digger Design" would that be offensive to people whose job it is to dig ditches? Or, what if I called myself "The McDonald's Chocolate Shake Barista". Certainly, they can't be making much more then a migrant worker. I think it would only be the copyright issues in play for that one.

 

I just bring all this up because it's hard to reason that employing that term is really off limits somehow. A migrant worker is simply one who travels around, looking for work. There are plenty of stereotypes that pop into people's minds when they hear the term, but that's their perceptions, their notions, their bias. I introduce none. My only thought is that they are people who work very hard, and are very underpaid.

[Emernate]

I think it comes from the disconnect between the idea of these traveling hard workers and what actual migrant workers go through. There is a report about a single community of migrant workers that can be found here: link removed .

 

By all means, you can have your cute mexican worker bees, just know what you are basing it off of. Find out if this is something that you want to be associated with.. even if it's indirectly.

[weeyin]

I am so sorry for being ignorant here please forgive me !!

What is the website set up for ? support etc ?

I dont find the name offensive at all & people googling the subject will find u which is good cuz its too the point .

[BeStrongBeHappy]

There are jokes, and then there is business. I think it is a very funny name, however it is too cutesy for a serious business. It also could indeed offend people who are immigrants, or worry people that you might be employing illegals or treating them like bees in a hive, or send a signal that you are young and not that experienced in business and hence chose a 'cutesy' name.

 

Companies spend MILLIONS on determining the correct image for themselves, what their names and logos should be, how they should advertise because attracting (and not offending) clients is what keeps them in business. So i'm not sure that that name would be good for your image or help in attracting clients, and attracting clients is exactly what you want/need to do for your business.

 

You could pick a better name, then have a cute animimation or slogan that plays on the bee image on your website.

[CaptainPlanet]

If it were an existing name, no. Given the current politicization of the issue it reflects I am sure yoy can think of a better name.

[Caldus]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Then again, I am the last person to ask about such matters. I would totally miss the big picture of it all if there was one as far as offensiveness goes.

[star2008]

There are migrant workers in many countries and they typically have sub-standard working conditions and are not treated very well by their employers.

 

Yes when I hear the name of your company, the above is what I think of. And I'd rather associate with companies that make me think of warm fuzzy things than of poor people having to work hard to just get the basics.

 

I realise that not all migrant workers are like that, but that is the image I associate with the term "Migrant working bees". "Migrating working bees" doesn't give me that image though. I suppose the word 'migrating' makes me think of animals more than people.

I associate 'migrant' = not well treated poor people. 'migrating' = a flock of birds taking off for the winter. Lol. But not everyone has the same associations.

[jettison]

I think that there is a hyper-PC crowd out there that is always worried about offending. For that crowd, they may not want to hire me. And if they are really that sensitive to the name, the chances are that I woudn't want to do business for them. That's alright by me.

 

Migrant workers are a huge part our cultural heritage and a huge part of the history of our country. That's a fact. Everyone can look the other way, and then pretend like even uttering the phrase (gasp!) is offensive, or one can realize that it's just a name (a name that has never been offensive btw as it is not even remotely inflammatory), and realize that it's being used because a "migrant worker" works long, hard, back breaking hours to get the job done. Hence, why I like borrowing this name.

 

If, personally, you would be offended by the use of this name, what good does that do anyone at all.... your offense? If you really cared, then you'd put your money and your time where your mouth is and volunteer for immigrant rights groups, and donate money to these worthy causes.

 

This is really how I see it. When even a non-inflammatory expression is seen as offensive then we're in trouble as a culture because they are so many trees in our way that we have no idea how to recognize a forest.

 

These is a very similar debate to the mascot controversy whereby the Florida State Seminoles is offensive because the mascot is a native American. Oddly, no one ever protests the Boston Celtics. In this culture, if you are looking to be offended then you will be. One need not look far, and there is offense all around you.

 

Ok, that's my rant. After having thought about this longer, I'm cool with it even if it means some of the more PC, uptight among us will be turned off and I'll lose their business. Likely, they wouldn't have been much fun to work with. There is nothing nefarious in the title. It's an image about a very hard worker who isn't paid much.... everyone's favorite kind of person to employ.

 

 

 

Yes when I hear the name of your company, the above is what I think of. And I'd rather associate with companies that make me think of warm fuzzy things than of poor people having to work hard to just get the basics.

 

I realise that not all migrant workers are like that, but that is the image I associate with the term "Migrant working bees". "Migrating working bees" doesn't give me that image though. I suppose the word 'migrating' makes me think of animals more than people.

I associate 'migrant' = not well treated poor people. 'migrating' = a flock of birds taking off for the winter. Lol. But not everyone has the same associations.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

But Jettison you are ignoring the connotation of words, which is very important in perception. You may personally see it as a positive, but the majority of people will associate other negative images with your company title.

 

The point is too that running a successful business is about making money. And to make money you need to attract customers. And attracting customers is being sensitive to who they are are, and what their perceptions might be.

 

It's lovely if you have an enligthened ideology, but that isn't about making money in a business, unless your company is a non-profit or charity organization. To make a business successful, you have to appeal to your customers, and not turn them off.

 

So i think you might be shooting yourself in the foot here. If you have to give the explanation above to everyone to get them to use your company, you won't have any customers, because they won't get so far as to even ask that question. And it might turn them off if you take the 'i'm more noble than you' approach as to why you chose that name.

 

Just take a look at the names of companies that are successful. Even ones with funny names, like 'Google' or 'Yahoo' are fun without carrying any heavy or negative connotations to them.

 

Migrant worker bees does carry some positive connotations (as in hard working as a bee), but also more negative connotations that people might misinterpret and turn them off. If they're turned off, they won't buy your services. There is just too much competition in the world and they'll move on to a company that doesn't offend them.

[jettison]

But Jettison you are ignoring the connotation of words, which is very important in perception. You may personally see it as a positive, but the majority of people will associate other negative images with your company title.

 

This is not a political debate, but I do bring this up to lend a metaphor to the idea of the polarization of phrases or ideas which, inherently, carry no negative connotations. There is nothing negative about the phrase "migrant worker". "Bean picker"? Negative. "Field worker"? An accurate description. There is no negative connotation with the phrase "migrant worker". No one has ever, to the best of my knowledge, ever had to say "Shhhhhhh... don't say that word in public. There may be underrepresented, oppressed people within earshot."

 

It's the bias that you hold, the perception that you carry, that makes you tell me "it has a negative connotation." But again, it does not. Politics works the same way. If you're a conservative and you hear the word "liberal" then your kneejerk reaction would often be to say "Oh my God... what a terrible thing to be called. I'm no liberal!" But me? I'd be proud to be called that. It's all about bias and perception.

 

And again, if those are the type of clients I'd be turning off then I'm all for it. This is a design business that depends on working very intimately with the client to achieve a very nuanced, very subtle effect. If my client doesn't understand the nuance of the company name, and would take a offense, that he/she is likely not someone I'd like to be working with to begin with.

 

The term "McDonald's" if offensive to me. I would never want to be associated with that name. I'd literally be embarrased if my friends saw me dining in one of those restaurants. The connotations are "doesn't care about his health", "can't see the big picture", "out of shape", "bottom feeder". Those are a few of the images that come to mind. Basically, I have a predisposed bias built up over decades. However, McDonald's is indeed a corporate name, and 10s of millions of Americans are proud to "deserve a break today" or whatever hackneyed slogan they've now come up with to brainwash the consumer.

 

If I called myself "Plantation Owner", or "Boss of Slave Laborer" then I would see the point. However, I am associating myself with the disinfranchised if anything. I'm not saying "look how big and bad and perfect I am", but "look how hard I work".

 

 

The point is too that running a successful business is about making money. And to make money you need to attract customers. And attracting customers is being sensitive to who they are are, and what their perceptions might be.

 

But that's the point... I do not wish to attract customers who experience kneejerk reactions nuanced issues. These kinds of customers would be exceedingly hard to work with.

 

 

So i think you might be shooting yourself in the foot here. If you have to give the explanation above to everyone to get them to use your company, you won't have any customers, because they won't get so far as to even ask that question. And it might turn them off if you take the 'i'm more noble than you' approach as to why you chose that name.

 

I would never dream of explaining this to a particular customer. If the customer had to ask what I meant then I doubt I'd want to do work for them. For some people they can look at a picture of either Hillary or Obama and be offended. "The mere site of that man/woman makes me cringe!" I do not associate myself with people like this, those unable to disassociate themselves from their emotions.

 

Just take a look at the names of companies that are successful. Even ones with funny names, like 'Google' or 'Yahoo' are fun without carrying any heavy or negative connotations to them.

 

There is no negative assocation with the term "migrant worker" but merely unsettled feelings because people know that migrant workers are disinfranchised.

[Emernate]

Personally, i would consider unsettled feelings about disenfranchised workers a negative association. It certainly doesn't give me happy feelings about it. But i'm not going to debate semantics.

At the end of the day, it's your business and you can name it whatever you want. I wish you the best of luck.

[jettison]

Personally, i would consider unsettled feelings about disenfranchised workers a negative association. It certainly doesn't give me happy feelings about it. But i'm not going to debate semantics.

At the end of the day, it's your business and you can name it whatever you want. I wish you the best of luck.

 

So nicknames and semantic representations should only ever be used if they make one think happy thoughts? It's not racist. It's not sexist. It's not a stereotype. It's not an inconsiderate term. It's not taboo. A migrant worker wouldn't be offended if you called him a "migrant worker". And despite all of this, it still offends because it is not angelic on some level.

 

By contrast, I think that "The Dead Kennedys" is offensive, and that name was meant to offend. It's fascinating though that the people offended by a rightly offensive name could only ever assume that the music itself is offensive, that the person uttering the phrase is offensive, that there is little behind the name then sensationalism to make a buck. For those that dug deeper, they'd know that Jello Biafra wrote about the tragedy of war in Cambodia, about the exploitation of 3rd world countries, about police brutality, about sexism, and about every other bleeding heart liberal cause that people would like to take up a fight for.

 

"Blood for oil"? That's a very popular expression these days. However, in the early 90s it was a highly, highly offensive phrase. How could someone insinuate that our government would ever engage in nefarious practices? They are God! Hence, the song "California Uber Alles". Jello coined "Die for oil, suckers" and spoke it like a mantra for so many years before that sentiment gained any real momentum. He wasn't afraid of addressing the subject. He talked about the prison population, about racial stereotyping, about hating people just based on the color of their skin or because they are different.

 

And now days? "Blood for oil" is no longer offensive to most, but merely just a given. Villified and maligned in the 90s, vindicated in 2008.

 

These terms have no moral equivilent to the very benign term, migrant worker, however. But it is interesting imaging the way we are all able to spin to create offense when none is present. I think it does speak to our culture as a whole with its soundbite politics and the polarizing nature of our rhetoric.

[melrich]

There is nothing negative about the phrase "migrant worker".

 

It wouldn't be offensive in my part of the world. But really you give no context. What is the site about?

[jettison]

It wouldn't be offensive in my part of the world. But really you give no context. What is the site about?

 

It's a graphic design site with some pictures of bees on it. So I suppose that it could be said that I'm exploiting lorem ipsum text, and the use of white space.

[melrich]

Oh well I could not see how that would have offensive connotations. However, Crazyaboutdogs makes a good point, if you have to ask then maybe it is not a good name for a commercial enterprise.

[Emernate]

What it comes down to is a business name. If you were going to name a band "Migrant Worker Bees"... it wouldn't matter what anyone thought about the name. In fact.. i think that would be a great band name.

 

But i don't think it works for a business name. But thats just opinion. You can name your company anything you want. Who knows.. maybe figuring out a highly offensive name would bring in more business.

[jettison]

Oh well I could not see how that would have offensive connotations. However, Crazyaboutdogs makes a good point, if you have to ask then maybe it is not a good name for a commercial enterprise.

 

I honestly take her advice under consideration, and I wouldn't have posted this if I wasn't looking for particular reasons that the name could offense. So far, I haven't seen any reasons for offense, but I have heard legitimate reasons why it would be a bad idea because it could scare off those who question "Should I be offended by this?" .... ie, potential customers that I might lose. So, I think Crazy has some good feedback. I also think that if I were, say, a pediatrician, or a lawyer, or defense attorney that this would be a HORRIBLE name. However, I'm an artistic, graphic designer who specializes mostly in the whimsical. It fits me.