Two steps forward-3 steps back how the heck can you dance?

[darkpumpkin]

What do you guys think about the whole step forward/back step thing that can happen in relationships.

 

Example Only:

My bf likes to talk about the future, what we will do. Could do, uses words like WHEN we move in, WHEN we get married, ect.

 

I on the other hand use the words "IF" or "if we work out".

 

We got in a bit of a fight last night (which are not really fights, kind of calm mature discussions never knew that's how a couple could fight)

He told me that he knows what he wants where he's heading but my hesitating makes him double guess himself.

 

I know it's valid but what is the opinion on how one person reaction can change the entire dance of the other person?

[ghost69]

are you sure you aren't just with this guy to say you have a bf? you speak a lot about him and almost question your relationship a lot. at least that is what i get out of your typing. also, a lot of your posts are relationship questions and you say a lot 'it's not my situation though.' just curious.

[annie24]

well of course you are hesitanting!!!! he is talking about the future, but occasionally neglects you in the present. ie, case in point, he's been wishy-washy about setting up dates with you, what you posted about this week. of course, i would feel hesitant if a guy is making big promises about the future, but is taking me for granted in the present, you know? did you talk to him about his behavior this week, and that is why you've sort of 'withdrawn?'

[Excalibur]

He's using 'when"...and if youo want him to stop saying when - next time he uses the word - you step in with "then let's set a date and head to the JP".

 

it's also a semantics issue. When "we" get married or move in together, might be him talking about "when I am married to someone or in cohabitation with someone' - you just happen to be in consideration at the moment, because he's dating you at the moment.

 

You can clear up this "semantics" issue regarding your disagreement. Explain to him that when you hear "when" - you hear a guarantee, a promise. And you're anxious to begin this "next phase" - so when you hear "when" it has you pawing at the starting gate for this to begin NOW..becuase that is what "when" implies - it is a aguarantee.

 

If you think back to your childhood for a second......when your parents said "when we go to disney world, to the mall, etc" - they probably followed thru with those plans. thereforeeee you hear "when" as a statement of fact, a guarantee. And like any anxious child - you're going "so when is when - when are we going swimming?" and you want him to give you the answer your parents did - in a sense "at 3 o'clock, we're leaving fo rthe pool". That let you as a child anticipate the moment, without having fear that it would not occur.

 

SO when he says "when" youo're wanting ot know "when is when"...and you can explain if he's not sure about 'when" is - if he's simply use "at some point" as a phrase -you'd back off, you'd be less anxious, more self-focused, and able to enjoy "what is" - not wondering "when we get to go swimming".

[darkpumpkin]

are you sure you aren't just with this guy to say you have a bf? you speak a lot about him and almost question your relationship a lot. at least that is what i get out of your typing. also, a lot of your posts are relationship questions and you say a lot 'it's not my situation though.' just curious.

Nope, done the whole been with someone for a bf thing, I can't say I'm to into it. I ask a lot of questions when it comes to relationships because they confuse me, I like to get to the bottom of things. I've found this is one of the best places to go, so many opinions and insightful advice.

 

He's using 'when"...and if youo want him to stop saying when - next time he uses the word - you step in with "then let's set a date and head to the JP".

 

it's also a semantics issue. When "we" get married or move in together, might be him talking about "when I am married to someone or in cohabitation with someone' - you just happen to be in consideration at the moment, because he's dating you at the moment.

 

You can clear up this "semantics" issue regarding your disagreement. Explain to him that when you hear "when" - you hear a guarantee, a promise. And you're anxious to begin this "next phase" - so when you hear "when" it has you pawing at the starting gate for this to begin NOW..becuase that is what "when" implies - it is a aguarantee.

 

If you think back to your childhood for a second......when your parents said "when we go to disney world, to the mall, etc" - they probably followed thru with those plans. thereforeeee you hear "when" as a statement of fact, a guarantee. And like any anxious child - you're going "so when is when - when are we going swimming?" and you want him to give you the answer your parents did - in a sense "at 3 o'clock, we're leaving fo rthe pool". That let you as a child anticipate the moment, without having fear that it would not occur.

 

SO when he says "when" youo're wanting ot know "when is when"...and you can explain if he's not sure about 'when" is - if he's simply use "at some point" as a phrase -you'd back off, you'd be less anxious, more self-focused, and able to enjoy "what is" - not wondering "when we get to go swimming".

 

That makes perfect sense, it's how I am programed. So when I do bring up...when as in give me a date he backs off it's like...okay you don't mean "when" you mean "if".

[darkpumpkin]

well of course you are hesitanting!!!! he is talking about the future, but occasionally neglects you in the present. ie, case in point, he's been wishy-washy about setting up dates with you, what you posted about this week. of course, i would feel hesitant if a guy is making big promises about the future, but is taking me for granted in the present, you know? did you talk to him about his behavior this week, and that is why you've sort of 'withdrawn?'

 

Yes, he explained finally that he's really stressed out. He's used to being out of town working-only thing he worries about daily is worrking a 12 hr day, eating and sleeping. Then when he gets home there are bills to pay, errends to run for his mom, friends that nag him to hang out and so on.

 

Oh and I also told him straight out that I want to move in with someone who wants to live with me, not just place me in a role of what he wants.

[Excalibur]

Because he does mean "if" in terms of "with you".

 

He's stating "when" in terms of him at some point wanting commitment, cohabitation and possibly marriage.

 

So, the positive thing is that you're dating someone who knows for whatever reasons/needs and by his own definition - HE WANTS COMMITMENT.

 

That's a positive thing.......the people you date that "aren't sure if I ever want to commit" - those are the people you personally shouldn't date, as you know you do want a commitment.

 

So if you think about it - you and he are on the same page.

 

'WHEN" I get married and cohabitate it'll be in my timeframe with someone who shares my needs, wants, goals, and priorities.

 

"IF" I am going to do that with you remains to be seen.

 

You're both stating both of the above - you're on the same page. Your lack of awareness of your position - is what has you thinking you're not.

 

He's upholding his commitment to himself and his needs/terms/standards/goals by NOT committing to you or anybody else yet.

 

YOU make sure you hold that same obligation to you - rather than try to force commitment from someone else.

[annie24]

i'm not so sure about that.... some guys will say, 'when we get married....' etc.... or 'this summer, let's go up to that lake....' because they are trying to 'hook' the girl, not because they have any intention of following through. some people talk big, but fail to deliver. i agree with getting clarification on whether he is talking about getting married, in GENERAL, or to YOU. but you've only been dating for 6 months, so you don't even need to know at this stage if he intends to marry you. but what you do need to know is if he won't take you for granted in the present.

 

i can understand that he is stressed, i would be too in his shoes. you should have just gone home and done your own thing. it's pointless to wait for him. did you two ever wind up going out for dinner?

[darkpumpkin]

I am, well I think I am. I am standing my ground of what I want in the future and I think I am also unsure "If" that is with him as well.

Yesterday he wanted to buy a house, I will not buy a house with someone I am not engaged to. It's what I need before I do such a thing, he was a bit upset which confirms your above post. But I will not back down, I did not say HE had to marry me before we bought a house I said I need to be engaged before I bought a house.

 

But I see how we are very much on the same page but express it differently.

[annie24]

i would want to be engaged, and WITH a wedding date. not just a vague 'engagement' with no wedding date in sight. but don't you want to get to know him for longer before you take that step?

[darkpumpkin]

We did meet up but the thing that caused more stress is he had this test for work, so we grabbed dinner and I helped him study a bit. He assumed I was staying that night, I informed him he hadn't asked me to so my ride (I don't drive yet) will be there to pick me up at 10. He was a bit shocked.

[darkpumpkin]

i would want to be engaged, and WITH a wedding date. not just a vague 'engagement' with no wedding date in sight. but don't you want to get to know him for longer before you take that step?

 

Yes, probably not the best thing to do but when we had our conversation yesterday I made it clear that I might say I can't buy a house until I'm engaged (with a date) but that doesn't mean I'm ready to say yes to being married right now. I tried (who knows if I got through to him) that I'm enjoying this daily, getting to know him and watching this develop. There is no rush and no pressure I'm just letting him know where I stand.

[Excalibur]

Ah...you've just opened the door to the major disparity in the relationship.

 

he's a man with a job, with a car, with bills, with his own living situationn - with friends, intrests, and hobbies.

 

You're a girl without a car, without independent means of expanding your horizons and broadening your perception of yourself and the world. Depending on where you live of course....a car might not be a necessity to that in say NYC obviously.

 

So he perceives that becuase you're not completely financially and otherwise able to do "what you want, becuase you want" - your time is more available to other people to do what they want or consider a priority.

 

And he's right.

 

Basically...he'd have a very hard time dating a mature, secure, fully independently identified and option woman that wanted a partner in life. He'd find this being gone for long periods, with his needs to catchup with the details, obligations nad options of his life where he resides....as disruptive to getting to know him as a person, him being there for her as she requires partnership to be.

 

So he'd be hard pressed to date women his age, in his identical situation of self-sufficiency and independence...unless that woman had a myriad of goals and priorities of her own that had her wanting and needing enormouos amounts of time to herself - to further her career, to advance her interests.

 

that's why he prefers to date people that have not fully developed an identity and self-sufficiency....it's what his options are at the time, becuase of how he chooses to life his life.

 

Partnership to him now is about "adjunct".....he either needs someone completey self-sufficient and identified to be her own woman - happy and delighted with his time when he's got it to offer for fun, sex, entertainment....or else he needs someone who's got fewer options and opportuntieis as a result of a lack of independence...so that his schedule and priorities are his own to dictate, with the other person having little else going on and likely delighted tto be included in whatever, whenever...as his needs nad priorities dictate.

[annie24]

Yes, probably not the best thing to do but when we had our conversation yesterday I made it clear that I might say I can't buy a house until I'm engaged (with a date) but that doesn't mean I'm ready to say yes to being married right now. I tried (who knows if I got through to him) that I'm enjoying this daily, getting to know him and watching this develop. There is no rush and no pressure I'm just letting him know where I stand.

 

hey - i think that's great. i think it's good that you are pacing the relationship. i can't tell you how many women i've seen trying to drag her man to the altar. it's kind of like the avatar of the person trying to walk the cat. it just doesn't work out so well.

 

i say - keep doing what you are doing. don't let him neglect you or take you for granted. i think it's good that you let him have the night to himself to study. i think that was the right thing to do, both to give you space, and him time to study.

[darkpumpkin]

See I have I disagree, I am self sufficent in every way. Finacially, and when it comes to getting around. I choose not to get my drivers licence when most teenagers did, I am paying for it now. I have taken steps for that independece and in the mean time I make due. And no, lol I'm sure I dont' give him the impression to do whatever he is doing. In fact many times I make it clear that this is a "him" time.

[ghost69]

i see a lot of excuses here. i get the impression you want to be near him more. but you 'say' you are okay with this situation. that's just my observation though.

[darkpumpkin]

^ and I appriciate your opinion ghost

[annie24]

See I have I disagree, I am self sufficent in every way. Finacially, and when it comes to getting around. I choose not to get my drivers licence when most teenagers did, I am paying for it now. I have taken steps for that independece and in the mean time I make due. And no, lol I'm sure I dont' give him the impression to do whatever he is doing. In fact many times I make it clear that this is a "him" time.

 

i am the same way. i don't have my driver's license, but i don't think that makes me less independent than others my age. quite the contrary, a lot of my peers have a car, but they don't own a home and travel, like i do. i live in a city where i don't need a car, and i really like that. if someone looks at me and says i am not independent, i would say they are crazy.

[darkpumpkin]

^ agreed. I've always found my way to places and to things. I do not rely on a bf's money, or rides. In fact I'm a bit to proud in that department to allow it to happen.

[Excalibur]

Ask yourself something dark pumpkin....if you had a license and a car of your own - not one that your parents paid the fuel/insurance/payments on - if you didn't live at home (not that you do) but on your own - do you think you'd be doing anything "more" with your time than you do right now.

 

living on your own with a roommate possibly (friend), having your own car, your own money - answering to nobody for your coming and going and activities - do you think you'd be doing anything "more or different' than you do at present.

 

and do you think that would make a difference in how often, and in what schedule - you can see him?

 

I didn't mean to imply that you relied on his money or transportation. My point is that without you own - you rely on others to transport you around, so you're going where you want at their effort on THEIR schedule, or you're only looking into interests and involvements where someone else is already involved and has an interest, and they already go there.

 

This might give you some ideas........8 years ago I wanted to live, at 35, in a suburb of the small university town where I lived at the time, and work still. I'd never been able to afford to do it - little money, old car...and I''d stopped relying on my parents to be the safety net for money in the event of emergency. i know - very late for maturity!

 

I found the ideal place by my perception to live, 10 miles out of town. I needed to be able to KNOW I could cover that 10 miles each way.......in order to be able to sign the lease.

 

Old car,, little money - more outgo in fuel andon maintenance, paying more for rent at the new place...the 'old me" would have said "well, this is out of my range' and stayed in the small apartment in the city, living amongst the college students and being dissatified.

 

The new me said "alternative transportation" - I committed to running and cycling, along with my other sports - in order to have method to cover the distance in the event of a monetary shortfall, knowing nobody that lived in that area.

 

By committing to learning to easily run 10 miles to and from work, or cycle it - I met alot of people in my new area, along with adding "marathon runner and triathlete" to my athletic resume.

 

I'm advising you to get that creative, it'll expand your world without one thing situationally changing in your world right now.

[darkpumpkin]

I do live at home but I did live on my own for a year at the age of 19. I moved in with a boyfriend who was finacially incapable at the time and neither of us had a car. I got a real taste of what it was like without "mom and dad" or the benifits of having friends drive me places, sense it was not fair to ask them.

 

I have my dream, my goals, I always used to think a car would change my life, living on my own would change my life. But I realized it wouldn't, I live how it makes me happy. It's almost the way I look at moving in with this boyfriend, sure we could both jump in, barely make it, be miserable. Or we can do it right, do it so we are ABLE. I'm the one who puts the stop sign up with some of these grand dreams of his because realistically until I get my driver's license I have to make sure I have a way to work, either ride or public transport. I have to pay off my debts and he does to.

 

I enjoy your advice, it makes me acutally stop and think.

[Excalibur]

Hon...you've never lived "on your own".

 

You've lived with mom and dad...until you lived with a boyfriend.

 

I get that maybe you did what I did at 17........dating someone who lacked financial responsiblity, education, etc.....I moved out as I had graduated HS and was working.

 

I thought we have "money" - I didn't know how to budget, how to plan, or how to evaluate.

 

But...when that relationship failed, instead of moving back home because I didn't want to go back to those rules and restrictions.......I got a second job, an efficiency apartment, and a roommate that worked opposite shifts.....so that we could share the same bed - but not at the same time.

 

I haven't lived at home since......that's "living on your own"...you've never done it - and the man you're dating has.

 

He pays his bills where he is without a roommate...while where he is paying bills...he never is because he's out on location, traveling nad having expenses there.

 

He knows there is nothing he can't have or do - with creative management of his time and resources that are his to determine the use of.

 

You haven't gottten the life experience yet to knwo that on your own...if this marriage didn't work, if this relationship doesn't work, I can be independent, self-sufficient and still have interests, goals, financial security and success.

[darkpumpkin]

Oh he has never lived on his own either or with a girlfriend. He has only lived at a "party house" as he says and right now he's living with his mom.

But I see your point about not truly making it by myself yet.

[Excalibur]

Okay, so he lives with his mom. Apparently she does regard him as an adult - maybe she charges him rent, he apparently can have females sleep over and have them at the breakfast table without it being an issue.

 

But that's rare in the US...it's much more European in approach.

 

But right now - I guarantee YOU can't have him at your breakfast table in the morning at your house - without all heck breaking loose.

 

So what you at least are doing - has to be done and has to be worked around the priorities, standards, and "rules" of others.

 

Maybe that's a good way to put it....you're familiar iwth 'rules". The reality is there are few rules in life...there are laws........which have to be broken and you get caught to be enforced.

 

But rules...not many in life, which accounts for all the different perspective, perceptions, and definitions of "great life" that are found worldwide.

 

Until you're financially independent - you live by rules...up to expectations and standards...or else you pay a price.

 

Once you're financially independent - you live in acccordance with the law to stay out of jail, doing your own thing becuase that'syour business to do - and deal with.