Raise your hand ...

[cc2006]

Oh no .. I'm a cliche'? My problems are all basic and fundamental man/woman issues? Now I don't feel as special

 

I may just get that book sooner or later, to be honest, it has been suggested to me a couple other times as well. I think my therapist suggested it to me at one time even.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I agree. If I'm having a bad day I definitely can't just "turn it on" either.

 

Most of her issues are self-esteem based ... until she combats that demon she'll have reoccurring problems, IMHO. I guess maybe I just need to be in a relationship with someone that has more of a grasp of whom they are and that is happier with themselves. I cannot and will not go back into something to feel emotionally-used or drained again, I just can't take it.

 

No one wants to play "pick up my partner" emotionally all the time, it sucks out your life.

 

 

 

You're right ... she spent most of the first year of our relationship trying to pound into me what she needed. It was almost a constant cycle of every 2-3 weeks we'd have to have a conversation where she was crying because she wasn't completely ecstatically happy with things. I'd comfort her ... she'd feel better ... I'd feel like I was a failure and worthless because I couldn't keep her happy and would spend a couple days depressive.

 

Most of her attempts were to get me to spend more time with her (which meant spending the night at her place - which I didn't feel like doing as often as she would have liked, obviously). Her attempts would just push me away, because she'd go as far as to actually physically throw herself on the floor in front of the door while crying and telling me that it was soooo horrible and killing her because I was going to leave at night to go back to my place. Giant Red Flag. I had that happen a few times to me and then from then onward that'd pop into my head whenever she started getting upset with me ... I'd be afraid it'd happen again ... so I'd walk on eggshells to avoid it (or just avoid her at times).

 

I guess I just felt like she was trying to manipulate me at times, you know? I'd tell her I was going to stop by after work and spend the afternoon with her but I needed to go home after ... but once I got to her place she'd start out the conversation with "so did you bring a bag so you can sleep over?!" When I said no she'd get pouty and I'd risk her being miserable and self-loathsome all night. She'd just get silent, and pout, and cry at times, and if I asked what was wrong the "you don't love me"s would start. "A good boyfriend would want to stay over all the time and would never want to leave!"

 

I usually left around the same time to head home ... so about a half-hour before that she'd suddenly (and frequently) want to put a movie in to watch ... and if I agreed to stay until it was over she'd cling to me when it was over, telling me I was "too tired to drive home now because it was so late" and the like - even though I was wide awake. Serious. When I pushed the issue and got up to leave that is when the crying-barricade of the door would start.

 

 

... or she'd call me on nights I was home and tell me at 10pm that she watched something scary on TV and couldn't sleep ... and that I needed to come over right away to stay with her so she wouldn't be afraid. (... or there was a spider and I just had to come over and kill it.) I felt like I was dealing with a child at times. I'd refuse, because frankly that is a silly request to begin with and weird on so many levels, and she'd cry and pout and tell me I must not love her because I'm not willing to do what she needs in the relationship. (At this point is when I was thinking in my head, "What you need is therapy.")

 

Obviously, her and I just have different views on what makes a good relationship and what is required, to say the least.

 

 

 

 

Nope, she isn't. I'm not saying I'm some master-magician of the expressive arts ... but ... at least I come through calm and reasonable.

 

 

 

No .. you're absolutely right. Just because that is how I deal with something doesn't mean it is the only way, or even the right way.

 

It goes back to "the boy who cried wolf" syndrome I spoke of. If she called me and said her pet died, or heaven-forbid a family member died ... or she had a rare extremely difficult day at work ... or was just suffering from some random depression that cropped up ... I can, could, and would be sympathetic of course. The issues arose because she'd be depressive every couple weeks, and it was always somehow my fault. Look, if the relationship is so imperfect and non-Disneyesque that you wallow in self-defeatist-pityfilled-depression every 2 weeks, then get out of it. I flat out told her many times ... "If I'm not what you're looking for, or not giving you what you need, then you need to move on."

 

I didn't understand how someone could actually believe that making them feel like crap by telling them a list of things they do wrong .. as well as how overly miserable they make you .. is going to make that person rush over at your beck and call and pamper you with the high-standards of loving affection you so demand?

 

 

Her demands or expectations were very large to me ... and no matter how often I tried (going as far as to try and actually change the way I am to accommodate her) it was just never enough.

 

"I don't see you enough, you don't love me." Ok, fine, I'll come over 3 times this week instead of 2. Then she'd just focus on another perceived problem and gnash her teeth over that one. What usually happened next was the following week she'd go back to "I don't see you enough, you don't love me" despite seeing her more often.

 

 

 

 

Funny thing is, I see it in my family's relationships all the time ... older ones ... grandparents and the like. One is happy, one is mad. One is up, one is down. ... but hey, they've made it 50 years so far on that! lol

 

.. lol .. yeah its sad.

 

 

 

Ayep ... I don't think there is another person exactly like me out there, and if they are (and its a female) I'm not sure I'd want to be in a relationship with her. lol

 

Compromise is key. Communication is key.

 

My ex just seemed like a "me me me me me" person. If I warned her that I was feeling like she was coming off that way she'd scoff and freak out and claim I'm the "me me me" person because I (get this one) ... wasn't doing that she wanted .. thereforeeee I was more "into myself" then "into her." Thanks "He just isn't that into you" book ... she quoted you often, and I believe misquoted you, but still ... thanks.

 

 

 

I dunno' .. I'm far from perfect, but I'm not that difficult to get along with I don't think ... and enough people I know have told me the same, so we can't all be wrong.

 

I'm not super-romantic and I'm not super-clingy ... those seem to be two very important parts that my ex required in the relationship. I wish her the best of luck with it ... and still really firmly believe she needs to get into therapy.

 

 

Uh oh .. late for an appointment .. oops, gotta run.

[minniegirl]

I'm new to the group and have my hand *raised* high. For me, my relationship has reached that level where I am looking around and wondering what on earth am I doing here, how did I get here and how do I fix it (if it can even be fixed). I have yet to post my tirade of my 5+ year relationship with my bf. That would be a novel in it and of itself. I have to summarize it somehow so I can give/get perspective on the situation. The hard part is when you reach that point in your relationship where all your thoughts and emotions are so jumbled up, you have no clue where to start. There is so much anger and resentment built up that you want to explode, but exploding would take far too much effort. Pardon my ramblings, as you can see, I'm trying to figure this out. Whatever the case, to the OP, I relate, in a big way.

](*,)](*,)](*,)

[cc2006]

LOL Minnie ... yeap, thats the feeling. Tirade away ... its cathartic.

 

 

Realizing you've reached that "OMG, what do I do now? Where do I start?" point is both a wonderful thing (finally a breakthrough!) and a horrible thing (but is it too late?!). I guess in my view, there shouldn't be any resentment. If I start to realize I'm seriously resenting the person I'm with then I feel like its just too late to fix things ... because you just can't white-wash over resentment and pretend it isn't there ... it'll come flashing back the moment something goes wrong down the road and I'll be hitting myself because I should have gotten out way back then.

 

I don't know if resentment and anger are just overly poisonous to me ... or if that is a common perception here, that resentment = goodbye ... maybe that'd be a good thing to ask and get feedback on. Hmmm.

 

 

Its funny .. I started this thread just as a vent and to make sure other people would *raise hand* with me ... because quite frankly, I've talked to a few people I know offline .. and I'll be all ... "You know when you just are about to SNAP because you realized you're in this relationship and you're completely lost and have no idea where it went wrong, where to go from here, or if it can even be saved?" ... and they'd look at me totally blankly, and just go "No." So I pulled out some hair and rushed here to make sure I wasn't just some kinda' weird over-thinker ... or that it was normal to feel this way. lol

[minniegirl]

No way, you are definitely not over thinking this. I often catch myself over thinking every minute detail, but not this time. The quote in bold is exactly the point I have reached and how I fix it is beyond me. I do agree with you about the resentment/anger=goodbye thing, but its easier said than done (at least for me). I know I still love this person, but many things have gone very wrong over the 5+ years we've been together. I don't fully blame him for everything. I do take responsibility for many things. In fact, back in March, I gave him a card discussing this very issue. What does he go and do a couple of months later, has some on-line fling with some girl thousands of miles away. It was that action that pretty much lead me to how I feel now and the bolded quote. I do blame myself for staying around, but I'm also in a position of loving someone, not knowing how to fix the problem, not knowing what went wrong, how it went wrong, why it went wrong, what the damn problem even is, and then being caught in the stages of resentment, anger hostility, and feeling apathetic. It's a nasty, vicious cycle that I have no idea how to break.

[Nixee]

I guess in my view, there shouldn't be any resentment. If I start to realize I'm seriously resenting the person I'm with then I feel like its just too late to fix things ... because you just can't white-wash over resentment and pretend it isn't there ... it'll come flashing back the moment something goes wrong down the road and I'll be hitting myself because I should have gotten out way back then.

 

I agree with this very much... but its sad, because how do you recognize that it is happening and nip it in the bud?

 

I just can't believe how much my ex and I allowed to build up until we reached a point where we just couldn't fix it. I used to believe (and still do to an extent) that it was all my ex's fault... that everytime I saw a situation developing between us and tried to deflate the anger and fix things, he just got too stubborn. He went to bed angry... constantly. And they say never go to bed angry. But it didn't matter if I was on my knees begging him to sit and talk it out with me - he was just a hot-head and couldn't let it go. Couldn't see the bigger picture or the harm it was doing to us in the long run.

 

Now... all of that said... I sometimes wonder if it just seemed that he was like that because he was like that for the last year of our relationship. So.. was he like that only because he already had enough resentment built up to not want to try? Over and over in my mind I search for signs and times where he was the one trying to make things better and I was ignoring him. Because he claimed over and over that he felt that way for a long time.

 

So how can we be so blind? How can we stop resentment before it starts?

 

And indeed, how is it solved? Or is that even possible?

[sunnyday66]

My question is, about the whole spending the night thing... why didn't you want to spend the night? My boyfriend and I have having some issues with his depression/work schedule and not being able to see him much. Lately he hasn't wanted to spend the night and I haven't pushed b/c he has to get up early. But I guess it would be nice.

 

Feeling insecure can make you feel like you're in this black hole. I feel for her, but it sounds like she's doing a lot of damage to you emotionally and its not fair to you or healthy. Is there a reason you hadn't thought about marriage... is it because she is so high maintenance?

[minniegirl]

Great post Nixee and I ask the same questions regarding my relationship. Unfortunately, I do have to lay 90% of the blame on my bf for the way things are turning out (I do take blame and responsibility for many things as well). The reason I say this is because the problems started early on in our relationship. Stupid of me to stick around, but I did and 5+ years later, here I am. Like you, when I did see a problem or something that needed addressing, I did my best to talk about it. The issue with him is that we don't necessarily see things eye to eye. Whatever the case, my bf has rarely, (if ever) taken any of my feelings into consideration. If I asked him to back away from something/someone because it was becoming detrimental to me and our relationship, he would stop and then go right back to it. That is just a piece of what has created so much anger and resentment towards him. There are so many other pieces to this puzzle. I don't think it's so much that we are blind. I think it's that we so very much want out relationship to work out (especially if you've been through the long haul) because we have invested blood, sweat, tears, and time into something we want to be loving and meaningful and have a positive outcome. I do blame myself for putting up with so much crap and never really taking a stand for myself, even if that stand mean leaving him and being hurt. The only way the resentment can be solved is if the crap finally stops and that's a whole other can of worms you have to open.

[cc2006]

I do agree with you about the resentment/anger=goodbye thing, but its easier said than done (at least for me). I know I still love this person, but many things have gone very wrong over the 5+ years we've been together.

 

I definitely suffer the same ... I didn't want my relationship to end. I struggled with it and fought with it well beyond the resentment/anger=goodbye line.

 

I used to shock myself sometimes, because I'd be there on the phone just gushing to a friend about a fight we had or the way I felt treated and a lightbulb would go off in my mind ... and I'd realize that I just spent 20 minutes ranting about my ex angrily ... and that I was angry ... but when I was around her I just repressed it because if I let it out and let her know I was upset she'd become super-defensive and passive-aggressive on me.

 

 

I agree with this very much... but its sad, because how do you recognize that it is happening and nip it in the bud?

 

So how can we be so blind? How can we stop resentment before it starts?

 

And indeed, how is it solved? Or is that even possible?

 

I dunno' Nix ... I dunno'. I wish I did. Are we supposed to find people that just don't cause us to feel that way? Do those people exist? ... or maybe ... is it our problem that we get upset and something we need to work on? I throw that one back and forth all the time in my head. The usual, "is it them or me" thing. Of course ... my family will come out and say I'm fine and she was psychotic ... or my friends will say "the most you can do is try to make it work" ... but ... I suffer from this constant, "Did I really try hard enough?" I dunno' ... I really wish I did know too.

 

 

 

My question is, about the whole spending the night thing... why didn't you want to spend the night? My boyfriend and I have having some issues with his depression/work schedule and not being able to see him much. Lately he hasn't wanted to spend the night and I haven't pushed b/c he has to get up early. But I guess it would be nice.

 

Feeling insecure can make you feel like you're in this black hole. I feel for her, but it sounds like she's doing a lot of damage to you emotionally and its not fair to you or healthy. Is there a reason you hadn't thought about marriage... is it because she is so high maintenance?

 

Well Sunny ... I'm somewhat odd I guess, so I don't know if this will be anything other than my own personal explanation.

 

I've suffered from anxiety (and possibly depression) for years, and if I feel uncomfortable or anxious I need to get back to "home base". I just feel more comfortable here then anywhere else ... I can just lock myself in here until I feel better. So, couple that with having a hard time sleeping in foreign beds (lol) and there is reason #1 to come home.

 

#2) I'm pretty independent ... I don't ask people for things often. This caused a problem because I kinda' never asked her to stay over here that much, if at all ... but she'd ask me to stay over at her place pretty frequently. Because I'm so "anti-asking" her asking seemed way more often then it probably was - if that makes sense.

 

Plus, I like being independent. I like being able to watch what I want to watch on TV ... or stay up until midnight if I'm not tired ... or hang out here on the internet if I don't have anything going on. I felt like when I was at her place I was at the mercy of her feelings and rulings. She worked early, so she'd need to go to bed early. If I didn't want to go to bed I was stuck sitting up watching her TV in her livingroom (where I didn't really feel "at home") while she slept - or else she'd make me go into her bedroom and watch TV in there while she slept ... but I always felt like I was bothering her or keeping her awake ... and she'd make me keep the volume down so low I couldn't hear it anyway. Fun.

 

All in all, basically it was me being at her apartment while she slept. She'd actually call me late at night and tell me she wanted me to come over but it was so late at that time and she was yawning into the phone - so I knew she was going to pass out. "You're going to sleep soon .. why would I come over?" Reply? "Because you want to sleep with me! I'll leave the door unlocked for you when I go to bed, just come in and come to bed too." -- Ok, so you want me to drive 30 minutes at 11 at night ... to tip-toe into your apartment and go to sleep when I'm not tired? Yes .. she did .. she requires her partner sleep with her whenever she feels like it (which is often). To her, in a relationship you should have a deep burning desire to be around the person nearly every free waking (and non-waking, obviously lol) moment. I dunno' if I'm "just not that way" or "just not that way with her" ... but ... I didn't have that burning desire to rush over at 11pm because she called and told me she wants me to sleep next to her.

 

#3) Her weird way of trying to manipulate me into staying. I absolutely hated it. The "oh its too late for you to drive home" tricks, the childlike dead-weight laying on me and whining when it was time for me to go so I have to physically shovel your limp body off of me so I can get up,

or the "there is a spider, come kill it" at 10pm stuff ... it all just screamed of her trying to manipulate me into staying with her, which would instantly turn me off completely to the idea. If someone is trying to force me to do something I'm going to revolt with every fiber of my being. That stuff just backfired on her all the time.

 

Throw in the temper-tantrums and her throwing herself on the floor and I was just driven away from her. Staying with her in that condition was the last thing on my mind.

 

Toss her depression, constant griping about me "not doing what she needs" and her self-esteem issues and she could turn into a big bummer. Not wanting to be around that was an issue too of mine.

 

 

 

So .. I guess .. maybe we just weren't compatible or something ... she wants a certain level of clinginess in a relationship and I detest overly-clingy stuff.

 

If we had plans, or were going to do something then we'd do it and if I planned to I would spend the night sometimes ... otherwise I'd just come home after work. She seems to want someone that'll need to be with her so much they can't help it. She wants someone driven by "love" she said ... I'm too rational.

 

I think too ... she just goes "too fast" for me, you know? I guess I kinda' want a friendship that slowly blossoms into more .. then more .. then a full-blown "I can't be without you" relationship could seem good to me maybe. She wanted to go from having a drink with each other on Tuesdays and Thursdays after work to being joined at the hip quite often .. and it just went waaay too fast for me, so of course I resisted ... which just made her feel like I didn't actually like her ... which made her depressive and more self-loathed ... which pushed me away more. Make sense? My head hurts now. lol

 

 

 

As for marriage? Frankly, I'm not big on marriage. I'm not religious, so that aspect of marriage doesn't clench me. Both my parents have been married more than once (read: a few times) and I've seen and lived through all kinds of issues because of it - death, alcoholism, abuse, mistrust, lies, bad-parenting, misery, tears .. you name it. I've also got friends my age that are either onto their 2nd marriage already or in their first but chanting things like "if I could do it over again I'd wait until I was more sure", or worse, "don't ever get married".

 

Overall, I don't really see the whole appeal to it I guess. I kind of have the whole, "How is a big party going to make our lives any different then the day before?" attitude that every woman I've ever met completely despises vehemently. I can be 100% devoted and in love with someone without marriage ... it just looks like extra paperwork to me.

 

 

That being said ... if I met someone that I planned to spend the rest of my life with (or at least a very long amount of time - because who can really know how long 'forever' is) and that person was really mindset about getting married and it meant the world to them ... I suppose I'd have to bend and do it to make them happy. I dunno' if that is noble, romantic (odds are no - most women by now have rolled their eyes and gagged at me), or just some wussy giving-in thing ... but if it'll make the person I love happen then why not?

 

 

Now .. with her? .. well .. she made marriage a big deal. "My friends are getting married ... why aren't I?" type stuff ... often enough to annoy me. That made me not want to do it. She whined about it ... cried about it ... we fought about it. I'm not ready for it, marriage, so feeling pressured into it pushes me the opposite direction.

 

I had told her though ... if you're 'the one' and need to get married to be happy then I'll bite the bullet and do it ... but first I want to make sure the relationship works. It just never seemed to get to that point. I had asked her to move in with me once when things were going well and she told me no. Later .. after more fights and tears .. she started talking about moving in together again and I said no. I wasn't going to take that step without having a firm foundation to build on, and we were going through rocky times.

 

In the end .. because I didn't "take steps to make the relationship push forward" is one of the reasons she gave for needing to break up. ... but ... why would I push things forward if we weren't in a good position at the time?

 

 

 

Wow .. another book ... and I dunno' if I ever answered fully, or adequately. lol Sorry about that