He Called....!

[Batya33]

All I am saying in that my personal experience (20 plus years of dating - I am now 41- several long term relationships) and those of my many many female and male friends ages late 20s to 50s, all through the years, if a man is sincerely interested in dating a lady he just met he typically (with exceptions!) does not ask her out at the last minute, especially on a Saturday night, or suggest or agree to the suggestion of having her come to his house to hang out and hook up.

 

I never said it was a black and white issue - obviously there are exceptions but when I dated (which was two years ago) I preferred not to take the risks you are taking with someone I saw potential with for a relationship because I did not want to give the impression that I was available last minute to hang out and hook up.

 

Why? Because I am not available last minute to hang out and hook up and even when I was totally smitten with someone I just met - I can totally relate! - I thought that in the interests of the long term I wanted to let the man put some effort into planning dates for us in advance. Two years later, my boyfriend now still speaks fondly about how he planned dates for us in advance and how much he enjoyed doing that - and guess what - he still does that - we sure spend time just hanging out - we are an exclusive couple and together a lot (less need to plan in advance given that we are a couple now)- but he loves planning fun things for us to do still. I have many many more examples like that from my experiences and those of many others.

 

On the other hand, what you are risking is a pattern where he will call you and chat with you when he's interested in chatting, drag his heels about actually stepping up to the plate to ask you out and agreeing to have you come over and hang out and hook up because it means he has to put in no effort. Then, when he meets a lady who really catches his eye he will want to put his best foot forward in order to show her that he thinks she is special.That's the risk - seen that happen many many times. I also had hang out and hook up flings and situations in my very distant past - but I went in with eyes wide open that all it was was when we had no other plans we'd hang out and kiss and cuddle (I never had sex in those situations). I don't remember getting hurt - maybe some disappointment - because I was completely honest with myself about what it was and more importantly, what it wasn't.

 

Once again, obviously there are exceptions (I know of few, perhaps others on this board know of more) and the upside of your approach is obvious: instant gratification (you got to see him ASAP after he got home from his event), enjoyable kissing and cuddling, the clear impression to him that you are very physically attracted to him and that you would be available to kiss and cuddle more - and perhaps even more intimately - next time.

 

The downside of my approach is that men who might have had some interest in me but did not value making plans in advance to get to know a lady were turned off by my declining last minute plans. Not a downside to me since it's uncomfortable for me to have to be available last minute since i have other things I like to do and friends I make plans with in advance.

 

I hope he calls and invites you over again very soon so you can get to know him more. Of course, if it were me I would hope he called and planned a date for the two of you in advance in public but it seems that you are perfectly content to get to know him at his home - nothing wrong with that! Good luck.

[everythingchanges456]

I hope that he calls, too. Though, not to get together at his home because I am not content with that being the backdrop for all of our encounters. I do want him to court me and put in an effort. Absolutely, I do. I don't plan to be available at his whim...REALLY...REALLY TRULY I DON'T REALLY!!!!! Thanks, Batya!

[Batya33]

OK then you will have to behave in a way that changes his current understanding of what you are comfortable with. I would not lecture him or try to "teach" him how to treat a lady, I would simply have a phone conversation - but not for too long - if he wants to continue the conversation he has to make a plan to see you - and if he suggests hanging out again say "thanks so much for the invite but tonight I am busy" if he still suggests his house as a location to meet (on another night) say very nicely "thanks for inviting me over again - but how about we go out and do something instead - (and then you can suggest a walk, a meal, whatever). You'll have your answer by his reaction.

[Lily04]

Batya, I have to say I did what the OP did as well, and now regret it... the thing is that I usually (pretty much everyday) study downtown in the library, so he knows I'll be there and when he's downtown and studying as well makes it a pretty casual 'study date.' Then we'll go for drinks or dinner afterwards. But I'm beginning to see it not so much as a planned 'date' then as a 'well i'll be in the city and want to spend time with you, so let's meet up' type of thing. Also he's seeing that he can just take it for granted that I'll meet with him which I don't like. In the beginning when I was dating there were times when I was less available, but recently (because I thought he was losing interest LOL) I've made myself more available to see him. i.e. last week I did have plans with another guy on Friday night but I cancelled them to be with him because I hadn't seen him all week. And then on Sat. night we were planning to meet whenever he came down to the city after his nap (he hadn't had proper sleep in days) but he didn't even show and text me. I'm thinking he's trying to make himself less available, but at the same time I want to make myself less available to him as well. I don't want him to think he can take my time for granted. I'm going to make plans with friends, etc. so he'll have to work around them (to be honest, as i don't have many friends, i don't plan a lot of time with them.. but i'm beginning to learn I should.)

 

HOWEVER Batya and others, my question is... is it OK to change now and become 'less available'... do you think it can make him change his behaviour or is it already too late now..? At least I never slept with him yet.

[Lily04]

OK then you will have to behave in a way that changes his current understanding of what you are comfortable with. I would not lecture him or try to "teach" him how to treat a lady, I would simply have a phone conversation - but not for too long - if he wants to continue the conversation he has to make a plan to see you - and if he suggests hanging out again say "thanks so much for the invite but tonight I am busy" if he still suggests his house as a location to meet (on another night) say very nicely "thanks for inviting me over again - but how about we go out and do something instead - (and then you can suggest a walk, a meal, whatever). You'll have your answer by his reaction.

 

again, i'm just wondering after let's say a week or 2 of seeming "available at a whim's notice", do you think it's still possible to change his perception? Initially he did put in effort and plan more in advance but I'm noticing now he's getting lazy, not calling me back, etc... so I want to seem more unavailable as well by doing what you suggested.

[Batya33]

I think it's possible to start to enforce boundaries later - I do that with certain friends who start to get a bit lazy about keeping plans, being on time, etc - it's just harder, that's all than if you give that impression from the very beginning. Once I am in an exclusive relationship or once it is settled that we will spend every weekend together unless I hear otherwise, I don't mind if we don't have specific time and place plans until the day of. It's just when I am first getting to know someone, that I want to make sure he understands - by my actions (not by teaching him) that if I am not asked out in advance for a weekend I most likely will not be available (exceptions are where he had an emergency during the week and couldn't get in touch, got last minute great tickets to a concert, eetc).

 

Typically - in my life - when the guy gets lax early on it's a sign that he's not as interested so unless that turns around we probably won't be dating much longer. Playing games - that is, saying you are unavailable even if he does call in advance- might be a short term fix - might intrigue him a bit as far as "chasing" but only short term.

[Miss M]

... is it OK to change now and become 'less available'... do you think it can make him change his behaviour or is it already too late now..? At least I never slept with him yet.

 

again, i'm just wondering after let's say a week or 2 of seeming "available at a whim's notice", do you think it's still possible to change his perception? Initially he did put in effort and plan more in advance but I'm noticing now he's getting lazy, not calling me back, etc... so I want to seem more unavailable as well by doing what you suggested.

Lily, I'd caution against changing your behavior in order to seem unavailable, or doing it as a way to manipulate his behavior. Become less available, have other friends and activities, because that's really a healthy thing for you to do in your own life, not as a way to control another person's behavior towards you. Don't let it cross the line into you trying to manipulate another person into behaving the way you want. You're dating to explore your mutual compatibility, investigating whether you two are a good match. And yes, sometimes the other person takes you for granted and you have to assert your boundaries again because that's the fair and right response to maintain your integrity with yourself. But don't try to control another person in that way. Also remember that the other person also has to put up with some of your uniqueness and oddities, so it's possible that he may also be feeling that you're taking a toll on his own personal integrity.

[Batya33]

I think Miss M is right on target. I love the thought of becoming less available because, knowing how wrapped up we all can get in someone new, the more we make sure we have our own lives, friends, activities the more the natural response to a last minute phone call will be "sorry, would love to but am busy."

[Lily04]

Hi Batya and Miss M,

 

Thanks for your thoughts on this. One question -- last Friday when we met I said that I had a 'surprise' in store for him, to sort of intrigue him into wanting to meet me. I then said that I thought there was a party that night but it's actually this Friday (which I also forgot is the Canada Day Long Weekend... so there's going to be tons of parties going on!! I said it was a friend's party though..) Anyway, it seems like now he just wants to meet once/week which is fine, if he wants to take it slow or commuting is too much now that he's not taking summer classes, or whatever reason I don't care. I'm going to date other guys, study, and meet up with friends and do my own thing in between. **However, now he already takes it for granted that we're going to meet this Friday since I said that the party was this friday, and I probably saiid he can come along as my date, as I already told him about it... so I expect being the type of guy he is, on Thursday night he'll ask me about the next day's plans... maybe Wed.

 

However, I'd rather not have him come now... I was planning to go out to a nightclub with my friend on Friday, but it's not really a 'party' per se. And I was planning to go back to her place afterwards. I don't know what I want to do for the long wekened yet, it will likely involve a combination of LSAT studying and partying... he'll probably ask me out but I just don't want it to be a last-minute thing. How do you think I should do this...? i.e. when he asks what the Friday party is about, should I say that it's just a friend thing... and it would be better to meet for drinks sometime on the weekend or something? To be honest, now that I'm more suspicious about his intentions, I'm not sure I want to go clubbing just as of yet... mainly because guys I met clubbing were not the relationship type and I don't like to do that so soon into dating either, even if there are long weekend parties coming up.... or am I just being unreasonable here?

[Miss M]

Lily, is it just me? Or are those types of specifics veering a little too far off the OP?

[Lily04]

Lily, is it just me? Or are those types of specifics veering a little too far off the OP?

 

True..I will request then that Batya (or yourself Miss M) or others who want to comment on my post should PM me instead, as it will take this thread off-topic... I don't want to delete my post though, so if you want to comment please just PM me in response. Thanks

[Lily04]

hmm does no one want to give me advice on this?? I never received any PMs about this.... I don't want to create a new thread though because explaining the situation would take too long...

[Miss M]

hmm does no one want to give me advice on this?? I never received any PMs about this....

No pressure, of course, eh Lily?

 

I don't want to create a new thread though because explaining the situation would take too long...

C'mon, what's one more thread? Besides, one way or the other you're going to have to explain it.

 

Also, if it takes "too long" for you (and it's YOUR pressing issues), then why would/should anyone else bother?

[Batya33]

I did bother - we have PM'd on the issue but I suppose I don't count ;-)

[Miss M]

Oh my, sorry batya. I guess Lily's also wanting to hear from me?

 

Lily, I didn't write for a couple of reasons, but nothing that should be discussed in everythingchanges thread.

[Lily04]

I did bother - we have PM'd on the issue but I suppose I don't count ;-)

 

you didn't PM me about the party issue though lol. you did PM me asking if he was my boyfriend or not... which I am not even sure of at the moment lol... but just want to take it casual for now. If it works out then that's great, but if not... nothing lost except about a week's worth of LSAT prep... lol..

 

Miss M, no probs if you didn't feel like commenting here... I haven't gotten a chance to reply to your PM either yet, but thanks for writing!!

[annie24]

well, to get back on topic, I like what batya and miss m have said about being genuinely busy. so that you aren't playing some sort of game where you are thinking, "well, he is calling me 5 hours in advance, that is not enough time, I will not go out with him even though I have no other plans." better to have other plans anyways instead of pretending to be busy or whatnot.

 

It's ok for the guy to be spontaneous and I think it's a good sign. I've dated guys who typically asked me out in advance, but would sometimes call about meeting the same night if there was something interesting going on that they just heard about (ie, concert, wine tasting, etc). spontenaity is fine and fun. however, if you are a naturally busy person, you'll probably only be able to accept half of such spontaneous invitations, being that you already have plans and all.