What happens when he's perfect...but he can't be yours?

[Batya33]

I would not suggest she waste her time trying to appear different from the pack just to land this guy. He is not the catch she may think and not worth her time.

 

He might be a good guy but my definition of a good guy doesn't date around with so many women but that is just my definition. FOr so long as he is not promising anyone anything he is free to do this, but he is not worth trying to look different from the rest just to land him

 

I think a good guy certainly can play the field with single women who also want to play the field, until he chooses to settle down. If someone doesn't want to date him because he's not serious minded, that's her choice. He's not a good match for someone who at that point wants marriage but casual dating doesn't make you a bad person unless it involves lying or cheating on an exclusive relationship - that would be bad behavior.

[Batya33]

It concerns me a little that you claim he is an exception because "he captured my heart." If you truly want to find a serious-minded guy, you will make a different choice when you realize he is not serious minded about you and you will not choose to let your heart be "captured" until you have determined that the two of you are on the same wavelength (for me that would include no sex until commitment because otherwise I would get too emotionally attached too early on but that might not be appropriate for you).

 

I understand the power of feeling smitten (I don't think you knew him well enough for it to be true love - as you posted, you now think he is self-absorbed, thoughtless, etc which is not what you thought in the recent past) but I also understand truly caring for yourself and choosing not to risk getting emotionally involved where the person tells you he doesn't want to get serious. That part is a head choice when your heart is absorbed in a person who is bad for you.

 

I was in a similar situation several years ago where I was smitten on date one. We dated for about 6 weeks until he dumped me because I wouldn't go all the way. He was a brilliant man (academically and creatively) handsome, charming. He wanted to date me again two years later, I agreed but said I hadn't changed my mind about waiting for a commitment and he ended things again 6 weeks later (both times I was glad things ended since we weren't on the same wavelength). These days he cheats on his fiancee who he has a child with. Nice. I dodged a bullet and my guess is you will too.

His art being amazing has nothing to do with whether he is a good match for you because the rest is a non-starter - he didn't want to get serious.

Good luck.

[JadedStar]

I think a good guy certainly can play the field with single women who also want to play the field, until he chooses to settle down. If someone doesn't want to date him because he's not serious minded, that's her choice. He's not a good match for someone who at that point wants marriage but casual dating doesn't make you a bad person unless it involves lying or cheating on an exclusive relationship - that would be bad behavior.

 

It all depends on what he is telling the women. If there are any promises of anything more then it is wrong.

 

And i guess i should have prefaced my post to say that it might not be wrong for a man to do that, he just would NOT be the right man for me. And I suspect the OP is like that too - not looking to be one of many.

[lonelylight]

That's why I ended up talking with him about it. I knew he probably thought I was okay with things, and wasn't aware of my intense feelings for him, unless I communicated that. I also started to get increasingly neurotic, as I saw he was continually logging into his, apparently, many dating sites, and I didn't want to lose the opportunity to tell him how I felt about him...you know, before he landed another girlfriend who wasn't me or something. So I told him that our situation was hurting me, and that I wanted to be his girlfriend. He gave me his spiel about relationships and etc. and not being ready to be in one or not knowing when/if he'll be ready to be in one, if ever again. He then, of course, wanted to have sex. And I said no, that I couldn't sleep with him if I thought the relationship could go nowhere. And I said that it just hurt too much to be that close to him, and then to have it go away, and to be wondering when/if I'd ever be that close to him again. He said he understood and said that he didn't know what the future held, and that it could be possible, and that having sex with me did make him feel closer to me. I said I had to believe that he was trying to move this into something serious, and I told him that I needed to see him more frequently. He promised me he'd try at that point...so I caved in.

 

But he's not trying. He's behaving the same way. This past week, I had phoned him to take him out to a fun event, and he said he'd get back to me as he might be out of town. That was on Thurs... Friday rolls around, no word. Saturday afternoon rolls around, no word. So I texted him and said something inocuous like, "hey sweetie, did you go out of town? I'd like to know so I can buy the tickets, if not." And he responded with one word: "yeah."

 

He couldn't even be bothered to get back to me to tell me he couldn't see me. And I have no idea where he was--if he went out of town, or if "out of town" is a euphemism for "in town, but sleeping with another woman and not you." I'm sure that's happening anyway, but don't know if in that particular instance I was lied to or not.

 

If I hadn't texted him, I could have waited around all weekend with no word. And he sent no apology, I haven't heard from him since. I wonder if I even will, seeing as I'm not initiating any communication with him.

 

So yes, I am eating ice cream and rewatching "Science of Sleep" over and over again for some reason...I really love that movie. Mark asked, so I am telling.

 

And I'm having a really hard time today. Not contacting, no. I feel like I've been treated badly, and I'm not responding when he acted so poorly. But oh, I hurt. I miss him, miss holding him, being close to 'im. And my self-esteem is in the gutter, even though normally it's ok. I keep questioning myself, like, if I were prettier or if I had been more outgoing around him (I've been nervous around him and a bit jittery because he's so hot)...maybe...maybe he would like me better...maybe he wouldn't treat me like s---.

[Clabs]

Hey honey.

 

I am so sorry you are feeling down and sad still. Thankyou for telling about that movie - I don't know that it but gonna look it out.

 

Look - this guy ain't going to change and you can see that clearly now. All he does is erode your self esteem. He isn't ever going to treat you or anyone special - he is a lost cause.

 

Kick him into touch and get yourself back together. You are worth so much more than this.

 

You know my thoughts!

 

Mark

[Batya33]

I am sorry you're having such a hard time. I have heard that so many times - a man saying (not to me only) that that will make him feel "closer" - well, sure it could make him feel physically closer and enhance emotional closeness - it's a way of expressing emotional closeness where love already exists - but feeling closer doesn't necesarily have anything to do with "closer to commitment."

 

He told you that he is not interested in a relationship with you right now. He told you that anything is possible and he could change his mind. Well, that's not a big surprise, right - anything is possible. I am glad you communicated your feelings to him and he communicated his reactions and feelings to you.

[lonelylight]

Thank you, guys, thank you...

 

Mark, I am touched by your kindness and sensitivity. Your posts have really been helping, thank you. As have the posts of everyone here.

 

I just...keep thinking about him. And it's *killing* me that he isn't making any kind of effort to contact me...but it's no surprise, either. I just keep thinking there's something I could have done, some manner I could have behaved, some way I could have elicited his love.

 

And then I did sleep with him and fall deeper into his spell...thank you for saying I am worth more than this. I don't believe anyone deserves this treatment. I am amazed that people treat others this way. I am sad that apparently I mean so little to him. Can it really feel good to him to behave in this way? Can he really be happy in using me, and I'm guessing others as well, in this manner? Seducing women, intentionally charming women so as to sleep with them--and there are possible signs, in retrospect, that he does this--surely that can't be something one is ever proud of? Especially since this wasn't a one-night stand, bar hookup. This has been prolonged behavior over a period of months. I feel like my heart and my mind have been toyed with.

 

Ay....I'm hurting, yeah. Stages of grief and all that. I vacillate between anger...and bargaining...and sadness. Hope this won't go on too long, but it takes however long it takes, I guess. Thanks for listening, everyone. Thank you for helping. It is helping. I ain't calling him.

 

I just wonder...what the hell can he be thinking? What is he feeling? I don't understand.

[Batya33]

I don't think he's using you any more than you were using him. You told him you weren't comfortable with a casual arrangement and he responded - basically - that for now he was. You continued to see him knowing that he only wanted something casual. Just because he only wants something casual doesn't make him a "user."

 

And no I don't think you could have done anything differently to "elicit" love except possibly walk away completely once you knew you weren't on the same wavelength with respect to a relationship and told him to contact you only if he changed his mind. Then, he would have known 100% where you stood since your actions would have matched your words and if he missed you enough he might have agreed to be exclusive. Even then, however, it sounds like that wouldn't have lasted for the long term because after "getting you back" he might have gone back to his desire for variety over monogamy.

 

It's certainly true that you two are not on the same wavelength. And, if you disagree with me and believe that he "used" you then there's a blessing here- you now know that you are not cut out for this sort of casual arrangement because you get emotionally attached. If it helps you to be angry at him that's fine but take this opportunity to evaluate whether you would make a different choice next time, knowing what you know now about your reactions to a casual arrangement.

 

It's also a blessing that he is not contacting you. Distance will help you heal.

[Clabs]

Hey lonelylight.

 

You will still hurt while you grieve this out - but it is good that you are beginning to get a little angry - anger will help you springboard out of this mess.

 

What is he feeling? I doubt he is feeling much at all - he will be back on those dating sites looking to line another date up. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with you - he just doesn't want or need a full time commitment. As I said before - he is a smoothie - he has it too good. You think of him as so perfect but he is SOOO shallow you can touch the bottom with your little toe. There is nothing that you could have done to elicit his love - nothing at all because he doesn't want that.

 

Batya is right - it is good that he is not contacting you - it will give you some peace and quiet to pull back from this and gain some clarity - some perspective - to see this for what it really is - what we see.

 

I don't necessarily agree that you were using him - I think you were weak and subconsciencely ignored the big red flags that were waving about there - you hoped you would be the one - you hoped you'd be the one to finally make him commit. I have done this - chosen to ignore many red flags because I was thinking with my heart and not listening to my head.

 

You have got so many things going for you honey - you are pretty, you are young, you are loving, you are caring, you are unselfish - and your beautiful posts tell me you are a very intelligent person. You have so much to offer, but the crying shame is that you are wasting all of your wonderful qualities on this jerkoff. You are worth so much more than this - wake up and see it.

 

Mark

[lonelylight]

Ugh...another lonely night here.

 

I still haven't heard from him. I don't know when/if I will...

 

I haven't been contacting him. I guess that has been one of the stressful things all these past months...wondering if every time I see him will be the last time. Everything seemed so shaky...tenuous...and has continually been on his terms.

 

Someone here said, "you can't fall in love with potential." I keep remembering those words. I think that's very true. I keep believing throughout life that if one acts with grace and style and demonstrates care of the other person, that it will result in love. But it doesn't.

 

I want to feel sparks and butterflies and all that stereotypical bunk. I want to stare deeply into someone's eyes and feel like I am looking down a long well into eternity...I want to be held and to hold, to laugh with someone and cry with them, to feel like they have touched the inside of my soul, the very core of me, and vice versa. To feel cared about, protected and to protect. It seems there are people who are totally incapable of these things, and yet it seems like that is the best thing life has to offer. I don't understand how anyone could not want that.

 

I still miss him and think about him constantly. It is getting easier, but my heart feels like a two ton weight right now that I'm dragging around inside my chest. I guess I fell in love with what could be, and didn't see what he really is...someone lacking empathy, lacking warmth, lacking heart.

[ElektraHere]

Lonely - I have been in your shoes sister and it isn't fun. I know that at this moment you feel all is lost but really its just the beginning. The beginning of a new chapter for you, and the best part is you can write it any way you would like.

 

A book you should look into is called "Cinderella was a Liar" and "In the Meantime." Go to Amazon and read excerpts of these two books. I have both of them and they have really opened my eyes on things.

 

And yes, they poster who said "You can't fall in love with potential" couldn't have said it any better.

[Batya33]

While I am with you on the deliciousness of falling in love and feeling all those in love feelings, for me there is nothing like something that seems entirely mundane/routine to remind you that real love sometimes has little to do with thrills and soul-touching or other abstract concepts - that if you are focusing on the abstract you probably are more in love with love than the person.

 

It can be in the way he can predict what I'll choose for lunch, or how he understands how I can sit at dinner with not much to say but then think of 6 things I forgot to tell him right after we get home, how he says one word in such a way that reminds me he's there for me (that word is "we"), how I am inspired to go in search of a soft serve ice cream truck with him that offers butterscotch coating (not syrup). I don't like butterscotch much.

 

Those kind of things you might learn about a person right away, but it's the time spent together, over time, where if those things remain endearing and inspire you to give, that's part of love. Sure, you want those moments that have all those abstract concepts you referred to - but for daily contentment, daily love, it's those very specific personal reminders that would be boring as heck to anyone else that I think is much more about love than the abstract stuff.

[lonelylight]

wow. that is so true.......wow.

 

and thank you elektra, too, I will look into those books.

 

Wow...Batya!! Beautifully said.

[Clabs]

Hey Batya - yes - beautifully said - beautiful!

 

Mark

[Clabs]

Hey lonelylight

 

"I still miss him and think about him constantly. It is getting easier, but my heart feels like a two ton weight right now that I'm dragging around inside my chest. I guess I fell in love with what could be, and didn't see what he really is...someone lacking empathy, lacking warmth, lacking heart."

 

This is good - you are opening your eyes and seeing things for what they really are - good for you. It still hurts like hell though, but keep going - you are doing fine - the pain will slowly ease.

 

Make sure you try and keep busy. What about getting a weekend away booked with friends so that you have something lovely to look forward to?

 

Take care honey.

 

Mark

[lonelylight]

Thank you guys, for still reading.

 

I do have some plans this weekend, Mark, but mostly I've been going home, sleeping a lot and playing the guitar. I don't really feel like seeing much of anyone until the pain goes away a little. Short bursts of time spent out are good, but I'm a real drag to be around and don't want to inflict that on my friends too much. They are kind of getting worn down hearing me complain about this guy! haha.

 

I'm having a tough morning...have a real itch to call/text him, but I'm not. As one poster said here, "It's about doing what feels good now or doing what feels good in the long run." I know that calling/texting him would give me some temporary relief from these emotions, but then I'd just be back to square 1 all over again in a day or a week or etc. And I can't do that. But dang, if it isn't a tough morning resisting temptation.

 

I just don't know how some people can look themselves in the mirror! How do you look yourself in the eye or good to sleep at night knowing you are taking advantage of/emotionally abusing a lot of women? Seriously, some people have no shame, and I have no idea how they can live with that knowledge.

 

Ugh.

 

Thanks guys.

[Batya33]

How was he emotionally abusing you? Didn't you agree to keep seeing him even though he said he wasn't interested in a relationship at this time? My point is not to absolve him but to let you choose to learn from this so that rather than being entirely the victim of "emotional abuse" you recognize what you chose, what you consented to and explore why you would choose to continue to be in a situation that was hurtful to you and unfulfilling? He had no power over you whatsoever - he may have suggested that he could be interested in a relationship in the future and perhaps that was entirely accurate - he just didn't know now and he couldn't assure you that he would change his mind.

 

You always had the power to decide that what he had to offer was not consistent with your values and was not healthy for you emotionally. But you chose to stay. I am not putting you down for that choice- we all have chosen short term pleasure and risked feeling icky the next day - but it is a choice. I don't want you to walk around feeling like a man like that has some sort of power over you just by withholding exclusivity and being fine with continuing casually.

[lonelylight]

Hey Batya,

 

Good points, and I can see what you're saying and where you're coming from. Of course, we always have a personal choice we can make in any situation. We always have the power to walk away, at least. That's true. And of course, if we choose to stay and let ourselves get hurt, that is our chocie too.

 

I've read a lot of books on emotional abuse because of my last boyfriend, who was very cruel to me before I decided to call it quits with him. And while this new man hasn't shown many signs of emotional abuse; in fact, when I'm with him he makes me feel very good, compliments me, etc. But one of the characteristics of emotional abuse is creating an environment of uncertainty. And that has been very present with this man. I never know when or if I will hear from him; I don't know if when I do see him if it will be the last time I see him or that we have together. I guess this has resulted in me cherishing and holding onto those moments I have with him more tightly; it has also caused me to romanticize them a little bit. But to be fair, they WERE very romantic! In fact, the most intense moments of romance and being swept off my feet that I've ever felt! He took me to see so many interesting places, we fell asleep together after sex holding hands, woke up together in the morning and he made me breakfast before driving me home. And of course, then there's the way he touched me and looked at me, combined with his artistry and his breathtaking good looks and charisma...and well, yeah. I'm sure he knows that this makes a girl go crazy for a guy...in fact, I told him that I had intense feelings for him and that it was hurting me that we would feel so close and that it would then go away. So he knows. He must know how much it hurts to get that close to someone wonderful, and then to be put in a situation when you're wondering if you will ever have any more amazing nights with that person and longing after them and not knowing when you'll hear from them again. He must know, and yet he does it anyway. And it's making me crazy! And that element of it I do think is abusive. But not any other part. Maybe it's unfair to call it that, except for my therapist also pointed it out to me and used the phrase "emotionally abusive" when describing it. She said it's like dangling a carrot on a stick on a fishing pole in front of an animal to keep it moving forward. He's dangling a carrot on a stick in front of me...and I keep wanting to follow it, but I can never catch it.

[Batya33]

But he didn't create an environment of uncertainty - at least not in my opinion. Unless a man tells me he wants an exclusive relationship with me, he doesn't, at least not right then.

 

It doesn't matter if he tells me he might change in the future because unless I am willing to wait around (which I might be, particularly if it is early on) I am 100% certain that at that time, he doesn't want to be in an exclusive relationship with me and I act consistent with my values and standards.

 

If I choose to stick around I do that knowing the risks. He's not creating anything - he's telling me where he stands and I can either accept it or walk away. You weren't put in a situation - you chose to keep seeing someone who told you he wasn't interested in the type of relationship you wanted. You told him that it hurt you emotionally not to have that but then you stayed anyway. Was he supposed to save you from yourself or couldn't he believe that if you stayed you decided that the pleasure outweighed the pain? We all make risk/benefit decisions like that, right - it's like deciding to have that delicious cake despite already being overly full or already not liking the numbers on the scale.

 

So, every time a man takes me out on a date, and then doesn't say whether he plans to call me or not again even though I express interest in seeing him again, is emotionally abusing me? I think not.

 

Now, if he told you he wanted to be exclusive, but then behaved in an untrustworthy way, almost crossing the line into cheating - you know, heavy flirting in front of me, constant suggestions that other women were better than me in some way, that could be emotionally manipulative, etc.

 

To me, choosing victimhood is somewhat of a cop out because it allows you to point a finger at someone else for your choices, reinforces a feeling of helplessness and leads to (unjustified) cynicism.

 

Sounds like part of his appeal and part of what fueled the fire was his unavailability which motivated you to keep coming back for more to see if you could "win" him over. But when he told you that he wasn't interested, instead of being a challenge, he is then abusive?

 

Those are strong words - I have seen women be physically abused and emotionally abused - where they didn't have a real choice to leave because of poverty, child related issues, etc. I hope you're not including yourself in that category.

[JadedStar]

Batya has hit several homeruns in the last few posts IMO.

 

First:

It can be in the way he can predict what I'll choose for lunch, or how he understands how I can sit at dinner with not much to say but then think of 6 things I forgot to tell him right after we get home, how he says one word in such a way that reminds me he's there for me (that word is "we"), how I am inspired to go in search of a soft serve ice cream truck with him that offers butterscotch coating (not syrup). I don't like butterscotch much.

 

 

She sure said this perfectly. It truly is things like this, for me anyway, that make me feel really in love or know I am in love. Just intangible things in many regards, I probably coudln't think of all the things like this that make me realize i am in love but it is on this order of what she said. Thrills and passion can exist wtihout love, let me assure you. That is lust. Now lust can also be and normally is present in love. However, lust can operate very independtly of love and can really mimic it and make you think its the real deal.

 

Her second slam dunk IMO:

How was he emotionally abusing you? Didn't you agree to keep seeing him even though he said he wasn't interested in a relationship at this time? My point is not to absolve him but to let you choose to learn from this so that rather than being entirely the victim of "emotional abuse" you recognize what you chose, what you consented to and explore why you would choose to continue to be in a situation that was hurtful to you and unfulfilling?

 

These are VERY empowering words for you. Too many women get caught up in these situations, and actually OTHER women often help keep them in these feelings of despair, when in actuality we as mature responsible women will be even moreso when we can recognize that if we are in a situation like this, it is our own doing and blaming the man, calling him a pig, a user, etc does NOTHING to empower us. We choose to be in situations like this. Maybe he is not a noble man, so what? Many men are not noble, we have to educate ourselves enough on relationships to learn how to avoid those men. They are not here to validate us. They actually have a right to do what they choose. And actually if he wants to date more than one woman and not get serious that does not even make him "less than noble". It just means he is not relationshiop ready. That is ok. Even tho I am female I am always averse to what I call the "man lynchings". Where several women get together and they all say how horrible a man like this is and do nothing to really talk about how they should empower themselves to not let men that do not share their values get a hold on them. The easy way out is to do the whoa is me deal. But that does nothing for our personal growth.

 

If I choose to stick around I do that knowing the risks. He's not creating anything - he's telling me where he stands and I can either accept it or walk away. So, every time a man takes me out on a date, and then doesn't say whether he plans to call me or not again even though I express interest in seeing him again, is emotionally abusing me? I think not.

 

 

what she said above goes in line with what I was just saying.

 

Third slam dunk:

Those are strong words - I have seen women be physically abused and emotionally abused - where they didn't have a real choice to leave because of poverty, child related issues, etc. I hope you're not including yourself in that category.

 

There is a category of women who are really emotionally abused and who are in the clutches of a manipulative and emotinoally abusive man. I, too, hope you are not including yourself in this category because that seems very incorrect to me and over the top.

 

Lonelylight you said:

But one of the characteristics of emotional abuse is creating an environment of uncertainty

 

I respectfully disagree. While an emotionally abusive man may have this as one of the MANY characteristics they possess, a man who is ONLY creating an environment of uncertainty is NOT necessarily abusing one emotionally. So you are saying a man who wants to date women but not exclusively, and who is out " Finding himself" and not sure of what he wants is an emotional abuser? I definitely disagree. How many women do we hear from finding themselves and unsure? They are not emotional abusers etiher IMO.

[lonelylight]

Hey, I wouldn't dare put myself in the category of emotionally abused woman, not in this instance. I grew up with an abusive alcoholic who would hit myself and my mother. So I do have to respectfully decline when you say that uncertainty isn't an element of abuse. I've read a lot of literature on the subject, mostly through my therapist, and part of the problem of abuse like that is that you don't know when it will occur. I didn't know if one day when I came home from school if my dad would be happy to see me and greet me okay, or if I'd come home and get verbally assaulted, threatened or hit. Always waiting for the other shoe to drop, feeling like you're walking on eggshells to avoid an outburst...that uncertainty is an element of the abuse and it is really damaging. And yeah, my mother doesn't feel like she can get out of the situation and divorce him. And she's afraid of what he'll do if she tries, so I am definitely aware of those kinds of dynamics.

 

I think one of the big elements that's troubling with the man I'm seeing right now is that uncertainty. Sure, he's been honest with me. But that revelation was very, very recent and upon my confronting him with my feelings. Basically, not the last time I saw him, but the time before. So when you guys say, "you knew he didn't want anything serious, but you kept seeing him anyway." That's partly true, but wasn't true for months and months. He wasn't honest with me up front and telling me he only wanted to date casually. He has only been honest about that as of late. And in his dating profiles, it says he's looking for anything from "short term dating" to "marriage & children", so it's not obvious that he's just a serial dater from that. Maybe he's totally confused, I don't know.

 

Another problem with this is that if I do ever see him again, which is really up to him at this point since I'm not contacting him, I *know* he will try and sleep with me. Now, I've told him point-blank that i have strong attachment feelings to him, that it hurts me that we have sex and that it goes away and I'm left wondering when/if I'll ever see him again, and that I get jealous about the idea of him being with other girls. So, two times ago, when I saw him, he said he'd try and date me more seriously. His actions and his behavior indicate that he is exactly the same and that he's not trying at all. Nonetheless, I know that if I do see him, he WILL try to sleep with me, regardless of what I say. When we first slept together, I kept trying to tell him no, and that I didn't want to go that far (told him that more than once), and he kept ignoring it and touching me, caressing me, and trying to pull off my clothes despite me trying to stop him, until I eventually caved in. Now, I suppose you could say I had the power to walk out the door, but I tried!!! And that was really hard for me, to keep saying no all those times, because I come from a background where if I try to stop a dominant male, I could get physically abused. And I got scared, so I slept with him. But then I really enjoyed him, and enjoyed being with him, so I stuck around. And now he knows my feelings, knows that he can roll over them like a bulldozer to get what he wants if he wants, and I love him, so it's easier to cave into it when he's so sexually assertive. If you guys still think this is my fault, maybe I should reevaluate some of the attitudes I have about men and dating, but I always thought that you should respect the other person's feelings a little bit, regardless of what feels personally gratifying to you.

 

And I'm miserable because I do love him, and I have no idea if I'll even ever SEE or talk to him again, even as just a friend. He owes me nothing because he has committed to nothing, and so he could just walk out of my life, without so much as a goodbye. And that crushes my spirit.

[Clabs]

Hey Lonelylight.

 

It is so easy to continue in a relationship, quite oblivious to red flags that may be flapping about - I have certainly done it. You invest more time and emotion and get yourself in a bit deeper.

 

I don't think this guy is in any way confused - he IS a serial dater - he wants the physical side of things and can deal with the emotional side of things so long as it doesn't go too deep because that would require work on his part. Once you start to question things, he knows that it is going to be hard work for him and he cannot be bothered. That is why he is not contacting you, I'll wager.

 

You have identified that if you do see him, he will end up pushing you for sex and you will cave in. Casual sex is all well and dandy, but that is the point - it is casual for him, but it is far from casual for you - show your body a bit more respect than this.

 

I know you are hurting and that you love him, but you also know that he is so bad for you.

 

The theme in lots of posts on this site are all about "them". What they want and what they are doing and who they are doing it with. But what about "us" - what about you? You are not getting what you want and what you deserve out of this so why are you still hanging around this place?

 

You say you love him and cannot bare the thought of not seeing him again but the fact is that none of this is recipricated - he doesn't want to love anyone - he has made that clear. And he is not in any hurry to be see you - that is abundantly clear by his actions - where is he?

 

I have said before, you sound like you have so much to offer the right guy, and who in turn will love and respect and recipricate. Do something for you for a change - forget about him and be selfish for a change - your spirit will soon return.

 

Mark

[Batya33]

yes, uncertainty can be an element of abuse just like hitting is an element of abuse - so if someone hits you by accident that is abuse? Just because it's an element doesn't mean that it has any connection to abuse.

 

In my experience unless you have a talk with someone about exclusivity you have to assume that you are casually dating and both can date other people. He had no obligation to tell you he only wanted a casual relationship until you told him you wanted more. He acted in a casual manner as well -- keeping his profile active and his options open. You chose not to tell him until a few months in for your own reasons - you liked him, the sex was good, you didn't want to rock the boat - all legitimate reasons but to pin on him "fault" for not telling you he only wanted something casual? Not his obligation to tell you.

 

If he raped you or forced you to have sex that would be different. You told him that you get emotionally attached through sex but your actions consented to sex. Sure, a saint might have said "no no let's not do this because you'll get emotionally attached" but a reasonable response is "she's an adult woman - she's reluctant but she's going for it, so I will, too."

 

He did respect your feelings - respect doesn't require him to be patronizing and tell you what is good and bad for you - he also needed to respect that despite your feelings you chose to have sex with him. It's not very respectful to tell an adult woman "no, don't do this because you know you'll be upset in the morning" - huh? Of course an adult woman knows herself and her limits, right? He was very respectful of your feelings by making it very clear when you finally asked him that he wanted to keep it casual.

 

You're determined to be the victim here for some reason that I cannot understand. Sure, it may be a temporary bandaid but it will preclude you from learning about yourself from this and preclude you from making a different choice next time because there is too much appeal for you in victimhood.

 

I am sorry you had a hard childhood -- and I hope you can work through that very soon. It's up to you - not men - whether you are ready to have a romantic relationship in spite of the childhood issues you are working through.

[lonelylight]

Thank you, once again, Mark. Your posts are amazing...and really help me stay strong and keep working at myself and not calling him. And I think you're right...now he's realized I'm attached and realized the potential for confrontation is there. Things won't just be light, happy and spontaneous anymore, so he's not putting in the effort to contact me. And I think that's kind of low. Though I suppose it's way better than continuing to try and use me.

 

Batya, I appreciate your perspective and so many thing you have said have really helped. And I agree that it's no one's obligation to say what they want out of dating up front. But the thing is, he knows all he wants is sex and yet he plays these games. And so women get emotionally involved and then end up finding out that all he wants is to f*** them, and I just don't think it's right. Then it's up to the woman to decide what she's going to do about it, and that is so so so so hard. I suppose there's tecnhically nothing wrong with being out there simply for the prospect of a good lay, but I think it involves some craftiness, some emotional manipulation, some artifice, and I think it's bad and I do think it's wrong to use women in this way. I don't respect what he's doing; I look down on it.

[Batya33]

That's where we disagree. I would assume that any man who is willing to have sex early on might just be looking for sex unless he tells me otherwise or I ask. (and I never ask because I would never have sex in those situations because I know I can't handle it- more power to those people who can).

 

By your definition, you were being manipulative too - you slept with him but didn't tell him you wanted more than that, and then when you told him and he didn't want what you wanted, all of a sudden you place the burden on him as in "what? you should have told me!" We just have different standards.

 

The reason I never sleep with a man before we decide to be in an exclusive relationship is because I know that I would get emotionally attached through sex and I don't desire to have sex outside of a committed relationship. But, if I chose to despite those standards I would assume I was doing it at my own risk and I wouldn't think it was fair to pin on him my own choices.

 

You chose to let yourself get emotionally involved. All he did was take you out on dates, have sexual intercourse with you and the related physical acts. It's not his fault if that gets you emotionally attached and leads you to want an exclusive relationship - he didn't take on that responsibility. Why not take on the responsibility to yourself and to others that since you know now that you get emotionally attached through sex and cannot handle, apparently, if after sex the man tells you he is not interested in more than sex, that you choose to abstain from sex until you have a commitment. Sex without a commitment is not wrong in the least, but blaming someone else for "using" you when you consented and didn't ask questions makes little sense to me.

 

I would agree that he was manipulative if he had agreed in advance to be exclusive just to get you into bed and then changed his mind after the sex was over. All this guy did was seduce you, you went along with it, enjoyed it, didn't count on feeling icky about him not wanting to commit to you and once you felt icky all of a sudden it became his fault for "using you." Sounds like you're not cut out for casual sex and that you're looking for a way to pin responsibility for your own actions on someone else's "manipulations." Sounds a bit manipulative to me. He told you that he didn't want a commitment and you came back for more. How that is him playing a game - rather than you playing a game with your emotions called "denial" is beyond me.

 

The reason I feel so strongly about this is because too many women (I haven't seen many men react this way) think they are ok having casual sex or don't give much thought to it - get caught up in the moment - but they are not ok and instead of taking on the responsibility and deciding to refrain from risking that type of hurt next time, they find a way to blame the guy -- in hindsight -- for "using" them even though there were no promises or commitments made. Then all of a sudden men become "jerks" and "out for one thing."

 

Makes me glad I've always stayed honest with myself about my choices (i.e. with whatever I did do casually, although never sex) because at almost 41, I still have a completely positive attitude about men and relationships and haven't felt the desire to point a finger at any guy for "using" me, other than the few men who have tried to force themselves on me which is for another topic/thread.

 

Good luck.