Ultimatum on moving in ...

[cc2006]

Hi all, long post incoming,

 

I was a posting member a while back, getting advice and venting probably a year ago about my girlfriend at the time. She had immaturity and insecurity issues (still does, really) and was (I felt) taking it out on me by starting arguments every few weeks to express her feelings that seemed to me to be more like berate-me sessions that usually ended up in full blown tears and "you don't love me"/woe-is-me/"Why are you with me if you don't love me?" fits.

 

We ended up breaking up a couple times, but have gotten back together both times. I keep mumbling "I can't put up with this much longer" but continue to give her passes on her blow-ups. Usually she blows up, I talk to her rationally, and she accepts it and goes back to being smiley and happy. Meanwhile, I spent anywhere between a few hours to (in this last instance) a day or so with anxiety about it all. I wonder if I should be in a relationship with someone who has blow-ups like that, or is so down on herself at times that she basically MAKES herself feel bad and insecure. I wonder if she'd be happier with someone who, frankly, kisses her behind more than I do and fawns all over her instead of myself, who has his own priorities to attend to and isn't the best suck-up in the world. She admits that she doesn't like the way this cycle goes on, and has thought about therapy and such, but never commits to it and goes.

 

I feel like she is two people, to be honest. One version of her is a happy and loving person whom I fell in love with (if I can claim to know what love is) and have thought about being with long term. The "other" her is insecure, frustrated, explosive emotionally, and depressive. The "other" her comes flying out every once in a while (usually a couple weeks to a month) and throws these fits. I like to debate and express my feelings rationally, but she is totally irrational. She has admitted she feels "like two people" sometimes, as well, in how differing her moods can be.

 

 

Anyway.. that was the background .. now for the thing stressing me so bad I'm falling behind on my reading for college because I can't stop thinking about the problem enough to concentrate:

 

My mother is moving out of state. That makes me sad, of course. The kicker is though, she offered to sell her home to my girlfriend, not thinking she'd actually take it. My girlfriend (of 18 months or so - whom is all stressed out because we "aren't taking steps toward the future" - she sees us as stalled in some rut while her life is passing her by and she is losing out on time she should be spending with her husband-to-be and "we aren't talking about marriage" or getting married like her friends are) got excited over the whole prospect of home-ownership and moving in with me. I actually got excited over it as well, really, which is a shock for me .. because quite frankly it is stressful thinking about taking a big step like that. She made me feel better by claiming that living together would ease some of her stresses ... because she'd see it as taking a step in the "right direction" and she'd get to see me more often, which is a big continuous cause of her outbursts for the longest time .. she'd throw a fit about how I wouldn't come over when she called me at 10pm to sleep next to her (at times when we both had obligations in the morning) and it'd turn into a huge "you don't love me" cry-fest because me not doing what she wants constitutes her loving me more than I love her, allegedly.

 

My girlfriend works, and I am in college and plan to be working part time soon, but have to fit it around my schedule, and we all know that won't give me a wealth of cash to throw around for sure. She would be paying the mortgage and most the bills for now, while I finish up school (2-3 years, odds are).

 

The other night, out of the blue, she asks me (for like the 20th time) if I'm serious about her and I plan to marry her, because (and here is the part that got me) and I quote... "I don't want to buy your mom's house and take care of you until you're done with school only to leave me and screw me over."

 

That, instantly, put the breaks on my excitement. I started thinking, "wonderful - she thinks I'm capable of that - and thinks I'd actually do that to her?" & "Can I commit to and live with her if she has these blow-ups on me that make me feel like this?" & "She hounds me and I feel pressured by her over coming over at night, or spending time with her sometimes, and now about 'taking the next step'. Will she start hounding me over proposing to her if I tell her I'd consider marrying her?"

 

That conversation we were having turned into a whole her-crying-and-sobbing that she needs commitment and all her friends are married or getting married and everyone asks her "so when are you two getting married" and she doesn't have an answer for them. She broke down far enough to go into her "you don't love me"s and "why are you with me"s. She went into her little depression-spiral.

 

When we got back to my place, we talked some more. She had calmed down enough to have a coherent conversation where her emotions aren't driving everything down a path that just turns into her taking the exact opposite side of whatever I say, no matter what.

 

I asked her if I've ever given her, in the 18 months we've been together, any implication that I'd use her for her money. In the 18 months that I've actually *loaned* her money, and let her stay with me for a few weeks while she was getting on her feet, in that I've always tried to balance how much we pay for things or alternate paying for meals or groceries. Her response? "Not until tonight, when the bill for dinner came and you didn't take your credit-card out to pay." So ... one instance in 18 months that we didn't have the "No I'll pay for it/No I'll get it" back and forth tug-of-war over the dinner check, and she has an explode over moving in without marriage commitments because she is afraid I'm using her for her cash.

 

- This is part of the problem as well, she seems to have a short-term memory only when it comes to things bothering her. It is like she is incapable of analyzing things from the past. She can't think, "Gee, he didn't come over on Saturday ... but he has come over so many times before that I understand if he didn't come over this Saturday" .. she just sees "He wasn't here Saturday, he must not love me" and bottles it up and explodes. -

 

 

Anyway .. thanks to the argument we had I felt like crap, while she was going around whistling and happy because we talked and she got the answer she wanted and cried about. Sadly, though, I felt that because of her explode and how scary moving in is ... and the fact that if she is considering if I could be "screwing her" for money ... I didn't feel comfortable about her buying the house and us moving in together. Why add fuel to the fire by setting up the very situation she fears?

 

I'd much rather keep going as things are, and cross my fingers that she seeks therapy or something, in the hopes that she'll work on her issues and stop emotionally-exploding and arguing with me to the point where I want to drive into oncoming traffic. My head is screaming "don't take the step because your relationship's foundation isn't strong."

 

I told her I can't move in. She cried bunches, and told me she was happy I stood up for myself and told her how I felt before we took that step and I regretted it. I told her I felt there would be other houses, and better times when things are more concrete between us to make the leap to live together. I'm in no hurry and believe the timing is bad for us. I had even asked her to move in with me in the past, and she shot me down saying the timing wasn't right ... so I figured it was a good logical comment for me to make.

 

The next day, she informed me that she thought it over, and if we don't "take this step" then she feels we're just treading water and the relationship is over. She wants marriage and blah-blah-blah and it already bothers her that I went back to college while she is sitting around with her degree and working. She feels we're at "different life stages" and that 18 months of dating is enough time to decide if you want to be with someone forever or not; enough time to know for a fact if you're going to marry someone or not; too much time to still be just living in different apartments and spending time with each other when your schedules allow it; enough time to know it will work out or not.

 

She gave me an ultimatum, it seems, in regard to moving in. I have until Monday at the latest to make my decision, because that is the day my mother needs to know if we're purchasing her home or if she needs to rush and get a realtor in there to put the house on the market to sell publicly.

 

I'm completely confused, and I think its going to blow a blood vessel in my brain or something. I care about her, love her I think, but am not sure I can see myself with her because of her blow-ups, and the fact that she throws out these negatives about me - like that she hopes I'm not "using her for her money". I feel that letting her buy this house and moving in with her could just give her ammunition to use in the "using her" fights. I feel that being strong-armed into taking a relationship step with someone is a horrible frickin' way to get commitment out of someone. This all seems so ... screwy to me.

 

On the other hand, I do love her (when she isn't having emotional fits) and the initial excitement about moving in together WAS there before, and maybe it could come back? Maybe she is right about it helping her feel better about the relationship and not having so many explosive emotional issues? .. of course, it won't solve her own self-issues of immaturing and insecurity and any other things she should seek therapy for.

 

Am I just afraid of commitment in general or just with her because of how she can be? Am I wrong to feel frightened over this and think it is a bad idea right now? Am I right in thinking her ultimatum is a totally wrong and underhanded thing to do or is it "time" for her to be able to demand more from a relationship that she feels is stalled? Am I a total jerk for being with someone for 18 months and not feeling completely head-over-heels in love with them to the point where I ignore every fault of theirs and want a Disneyesque future together?

 

I get advise from both sides, eNotAlone, and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts. Some people tell me to run for my f'n life - that she is acting nutty when she blows up and I should give up on thinking she'll mature and/or change.

 

Others tell me that I just need to accept her for who she is, blow-ups and all, and take the step and hope it works out.

 

Others even tell me to take the step, and if it doesn't work out, just blow her off and let her be stuck with the house like she is accusing me of possibly doing .. because "you warned her already, if she still does it and you two break up for good she deserves it."

 

Sigh ... help?

[VeganBohemian]

I am like your girlfriend, but have learned to (mostly) suppress my emotions. Your girlfriend IS the person you fell in love with---the problem is that she loves you so much (I think at least) that she couldn't bear the thought of losing you. To her, you and her are the future. thereforeeee, any action you take that makes her think twice, to her, is the end of all things. She IS being irrational, but think of it this way:

 

I came up with a good analogy for this same situation with my bf. My bf was very focused and while he was in school, scrutinized his homework until he felt it was perfect. He would have such anxiety and worry over his performance that it was irrational.

 

I on the other hand am just as irrational---but about our relationship.

 

Imagine taking the thing that causes you the worst anxiety in the world and that is how she feels whenever she becomes insecure about your relationship. Yes, it is that important to her.

 

Seriously----if you do love her, which you probably do, just give her what she wants some of the time, which may just be an "I miss you" or an "I love you". She is just more relationship-oriented and wants to focus on that moreso than let's say career....and you are more focused on the latter. She needs to become more independent and you need to become more sympethetic to the female mind if this relationship is going to last.

 

I suggest having an open and non-threatening conversation regarding your issues with insecurity and commitment. She needs to know you really do love her, but that you need to focus on other things as well. She should be accepting of your needs. You need to be well-rounded. And so does she. Maybe you could offer to help her with her self-esteem issues. Be proactive!

[Scotcha]

I don't think your mother's house should be used as ammunition to move in together. Either she wants the house or she doesn't. If she knows that this isn't a joint purchase, that it will be her paying the mortgage, and her name on the deed, than what does it matter if you live there with her or not? In my mind they should be two separate issues entirely.

 

I can understand giving an ultimatum about taking a relationship to the next level, be it moving in together or getting married. For me it wouldn't be after 18 months but I'm not following her timeline. Also, she may be a couple of years older than myself so time is much more precious.

 

And about her blow-ups.. I must admit, I can be guilty of the myself... Usually every 4 or 5 months.. It could be something she really needs help for or it could be a human flaw. Either way, it may not be liekly to change. You have to look at her as an entire package. You can't just pick the parts about her that you like and do away with the rest. Flaws and all, do you want to be with her for the long haul?

 

If she buys the house because she wants too and you move in with her and it doesn't end up working out.. Hmm.. I you should talk to her about this.. That if she buys the house it's because she wants the house, not because she wants to use it as a means to an end. (you moving in)

[BeStrongBeHappy]

i think her purchase of your mother's house should only be because she wants that particular house, and should have nothing to do with your relationship. there are a million houses out there, and buying that house should not be part of the equation, too emotionally loaded for everyone.

 

some women are more emotional than others, and some more insecure than others, and some more controlling than others. the point here being, you need to get to the bottom of what these emotional outbursts of hers are really about. if this is who she is and always will be and you can't live with it, then no point in dragging it out.

 

i think you need to sit her down and discuss all the issues you have brought up in this post. i.e., her outbursts, whether you should spend more time together, whether she really needs to get married now 'or else,' etc. etc. you've got a lot of things mixing up in that pot, and you need to deal with them one by one til you come to a decision.

 

right now it sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors and not an environment where you could make a good decision, until you have dealt with each of these things independently with her. there seems to be a lot of drama here that you need to get past, to look to see if you two can negotiate a future together or not.

[cc2006]

Just popping in to say thanks to those whom took the time to read my WAY too long post and chime in.

 

I probably should have made the decision to cut and run or stay for the long haul a while ago. I know it is irrational of me to think she is going to magically change and stop emotionally exploding, but it just seems like that is my main issue with our situation.

 

I kinda' just figured if I kept the status quo and worked on myself and my own issues in therapy she'd hopefully work on her own. I mean, she talks about them as if she wants to work on them, but then just as quickly seems to decide she is absolutely right and without need to deal with things or something, because she never takes steps to better things. I guess I feel like when it comes to working on ourselves that I'm doing all the work on me and she is just twiddling her thumbs and expecting things to get better without her own effort.

 

 

I totally agree that the house issue and the relationship issue should be two separate things. I didn't put it in just those words, and I wish I had done so, but I did tell her that there are so many other houses and putting this off while we secure the relationship thing should be priority one. Build a solid foundation (or realize that it is impossible to fix before making huge financial choices) and then move in together. She doesn't want to hear that, though, she seems to only want to hear what she wants and nothing more.

 

My mother's house is nice and all, but it isn't as if she is giving my girlfriend such a tremendous steal of a deal that we'd be insane not to jump at it. She is knocking $15 thousand off the estimated price (which is never what you pay for a house anyway) and offering it to us for just what her mortgage left on the home is currently. Basically my girlfriend would be buying out (or taking over) my mother's mortgage. Not a "once in a lifetime deal" as if we're getting it for half price or anything. The biggest bonus is owning a home that you knew the owners very well, and all their upgrades, and know everything was done the right way and not duct-taped together until after the home sells. Peace of mind, to a degree I suppose.

 

So, in the end, she wouldn't purchase it to live there on her own. She has already admitted to me that the house is way too big for just one person alone ... it is simply killing two birds with one stone - she gets a house payment with equity instead of flushing money down the drain renting an apartment and we move in together. That of course, has now become an "... or else" though.

 

Well, I have a couple more days to come to a decision technically, and I was able to sleep last night for almost the whole night through, which was a first for this week. I still don't know what to do, but I can try talking to her about it, not sure she'll bend even the slightest though ... I think she is putting her foot down on this, which is insane in its own way.

 

Thanks again, if anyone else has thoughts that weren't touched on please let me know .. I'll be stopping in for sure.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

i dunno... it really sounds to me like she is desparate to get a commitment from you, and is using any leverage she can to try to get that commitment out of you. right now that leverage is your mother's house.

 

what does she want, to get engaged, or just live together? i think you need to clarify exactly what she wants from you now (forget about the house), and are you willing to do that? it really sounds like she wants to get engaged, and the 'all my friends are getting married' excuse is not the right reason for that. you should be getting engaged if what you want is to marry her, and for that reason only.

 

it doesn't sound like just living together is enough for her... she keeps trying to raise the ante to get engagement or marriage. how long have you been together, and is this a reasonable expectation for you?

 

if you really don't want to lose her, you could try making a commitment and see if her anxiety gets better or stays the same. but i think she will really hate you if she buys that house and you get cold feet later, so you need to be sure that buying the house is right for her, on her own, and that your commitment to her is based on that being the right thing for both of you.

[mr me]

I guess i just had to say that sometimes with people things that bother them have nothing to do with anything they really talk about. its like this could be coming from stress from somewhere else that she cant deal with so she kinda takes it out on ur relationship. I also feel like over time if the outbursts are as bad as it is then over time u might feel worse. it might also cause u enough stress to where u start having ur own and it just kinda goes downhill from there. I have also been in a situation where the priorities are all mixed up and its not good. i was working on myself and our relationship and she just kinda worried about herself. Its strange how little things like that can change everything. I would also say that this probably wouldnt be such a good thing because as much as it counts in security, the problems that u will have to deal with owning a home never end because its always ur responsibility for every little thing. Its like life has a way of throwing u curveballs so u dont really know what to expect.

 

I would kinda try to keep it simple and not keep on complicating things. I guess if u can talk to her about this and she can see another side of things then i would say thats really good but sometimes people can be stubborn or selfish and thats kinda up to u to decide. I also blamed myself for alot of problems or thought i could make them better but my inexperienced showed and i just made alot of bad mental notes about how i saw things. its also like if things are really stressing u out time apart is good and it can be the most difficult decision because u worry about if shell cheat etc etc but u might also be surprised how it can also change ur way of viewing things. I guess to keep it simple life isnt always as beautiful as they say it is. its also hard because u dont know how things would turn out unless u really know how they would or at least have a better idea. I also wouldnt count love as the answer to everything because people say u always love the person but sometimes love makes u do things u would never do otherwise because it also blinds u. I guess u add that with relationship and life problems and it at times can be a big problem in itself. I guess thats my take on it from my own experiences.

[Scotcha]

 

So, in the end, she wouldn't purchase it to live there on her own. She has already admitted to me that the house is way too big for just one person alone ... it is simply killing two birds with one stone - she gets a house payment with equity instead of flushing money down the drain renting an apartment and we move in together. That of course, has now become an "... or else" though.

 

So it's not the house she really wants... It's you. Why not rent first and then later if the time is right, buy a house that the both of you *really* want.

 

Where do you see your relationship with her heading? If you can't see a future with her, a real one, than why stick around? But if you can... Why not give that future a fair chance?

 

Also, on a side note.. Her outbursts may have something to do with maturity. Mine have gotten less frequent as I've gotten older but as I said before, you have to accept the entire package. You can't count on someone changing.

[TropicalParadise]

Only you can decide if you can see a future with her, and if you truly love her. Can you honestly see your self marrying her in the future?

 

If you decide to live with her, she'll just push the marriage issue even more. She sounds a little marriage obsessed, especially since she keeps saying that "all her friends are doing it." I don't blame you that you're feeling a little unsure about moving in together.

 

I agree with others that she's expecting more out of living together than you are -- She probably sees this as another way to get you to commit to her, and propose.

 

Even though she says it, her outbursts won't change when you live together -- She sounds very needy and passive aggressive. If she's giving you an ultimatum to live together, pretty soon she'll be giving you an ultimatum for marriage.

[ImThatGirl]

I think that your girlfriends emotional outbursts and ultimatums indicate that she is ready for more than you are. She has her mind set that she wants marriage in the near future and is willing to build up to that with small steps (buying the house) but needs something to realize that you are interested in a future with her.

 

It doesn't seem as though you know if you want a future with her or not.

 

You have heard, "Actions speak louder than words?" And Batya says, "Watch the feet, not the lips."

 

She's making it clear that she is interested in moving on with her life and wants marriage to be part of her near future. She's begging you to take those steps or to give her some indication that she's not just wasting her time and prolonging the inevitable. Do right by her and don't hang onto her if you have thoughts of the two of you not being together. . .

[cc2006]

Thanks for the responses all. I love how you get well thought out opinions from different directions here. I get good advice from friends and family, but it is usually really "hands off" stuff or completely one sided and pushy.

 

We had a good talk last night, I feel. Thanks to info I got from here I made sure to talk to her about how this whole thing should be 2 separate decisions. She admitted again that she isn't totally in love with the house and it is just a means to an ends - getting me to move in with her. She withdrew her ultimatum this morning and apologized for it (this morning, because she is one of those "needs to sleep on it" people or something .. don't get much feedback during the conversation, but she goes over it in her head and comes to a conclusion later).

 

I'd be happy to give moving in a fair shot. I actually had suggested we move in something like 6 months ago, and she shot me down. We talked about that too last night ... she claims she didn't think I was actually serious. Oh well. I'd be thrilled if she'd move into my apartment with me. Sure it is small, and we'd have to put some of each of our things in storage ... but it'd give us a chance to experience living together without the added pressures of homeownership and/or the added problems of getting out from UNDER being homeowners if the relationship doesn't work out. My bills in this place are amazingly inexpensive ($8-900 cheaper than her apartment) and haven't changed in 10 years now, so it is totally more economical than a big house or living in her apartment. Plus, with my dog, I can't just uproot and move in with her.

 

I do love and care about her. At times I can definitely see a future with her ... there have been times when things are really great (while not perfect, what ever is?) and we can have fun together. My issue is those emotional-explosions. Those scare me and make me think "maybe this isn't good to do" because who would sanely sign on for a lifetime of stress from that? She definitely has this immature & passive-aggressive thing down pat, you're right.

 

It is hard, for me, dealing with how much I feel positively for her while grappling with the negatives of her outbursts/attacks and fears over her pushing commitment on me despite her promises not to.

 

We talked about those blow-ups too though last night for a little while. I stressed that I'm not upset over WHAT she tells me 90% of the time, just HOW she tells me. If you get upset over something I do ... just tell me and I'll stop, apologize, talk to you about it, and we can move on. Her keeping all these "little things" bottled up inside then releasing them at once with all this pent up aggression is what causes the thing I fear that makes me think maybe I can't be with her.

 

 

Yeah, I do wonder though if she is "marriage obsessed". It is funny, because I've asked her why it is so important to her, and the answer was "because that is what you're supposed to do." I almost feel like she is trying to live up to everyone else's standards and ways of doing things instead of trying to find who SHE really is. Copycatting or something. I'm way more laid back about things ... I want to experiment with a relationship and feel good about it before I start taking the next step. The more she blows-up, or pushes ultimatums, or stresses me out, the slower I'm going to be in reaching for the next step.

 

 

Screwy enough though, my mother has told me she isn't completely sure she wants to take HER leap now and move away today. So it is possible the biggest catalyst to this whole episode won't even happen.