redswim30

First of all, good for you for making the decision that is right for you, and really right for your ex as well. 

Contrary to a lot of pop culture, people don't always break up because they hate each other.  Often people who still have a lot of love for each other, break up for a multitude of other reasons.  It's not as simple as I LOVE YOU= stay.   Leaving=I hate you.  

Any reasons you have in which you feel are right for YOU are both REAL and VALID.  You do NOT owe anyone else an explanation.  If you feel you aren't capable of continuing the relationship in a way that is healthy and fair to you both, then ending it is the right decision.  Doing what is right isn't always easy. Your ex GF may be hurting now, but take it from someone who knows, she's hurting a lot less than if you carried on in dishonesty and one of you reached a breaking point in which you MAY end up actually hating each other.  I believe sometimes it IS best to end things before reaching an extreme point, just because you are worried about what others may think or to avoid hurt.  

Even if this decision and has hurt your ex and even if others don't understand it, you do not owe ANYONE an explanation.  The fact that you gave her sister any sort of explanation was big of you and also unnecessary.  It's NOT her sister's place to tell you how to feel, what to think, or what action to take. 

Frankly, her sister is being wildly inappropriate and off base here.  It's not HER relationship.  Besides, couples therapy wouldn't work in this case.  You aren't someone who doesn't know what you want, you are someone that already KNOWS it isn't healthy to continue this relationship at this time. That's all that matters.  The end. 

Best of luck to you.  I hope you are able to find a way to love and respect yourself again.  Because you are correct, that has to come first and it is NOT "selfish", it is honest.  I applaud you for having the maturity to do what was needed to take care of your own well-being.  Stop talking to the sister, no good can come of it and you do NOT deserve a guilt trip for making the healthy decision for yourself. 

On 5/12/2024 at 8:50 AM, crazyheart22 said:

rriage, necessarily, but it's getting hard being around my husband and walking on eggshells with what I tell him. We have tried counseling and that didn't get us very far. I'm just trying to think what I can do to fix this. I have shared with him that the way he talks to me isn't very nice. Sometimes he catches himself and apologizes, but it's just exhausting trying to have conversations with him anymore. 

OP, 

Why don't you want your marriage to end when you admit you are much happier when he is not around? Why don't you want to marriage to end when you say you cannot even maintain any sense of normalcy with your family and him?

There's NOTHING you can do to fix HIM.  NOTHING.  No amount of talking, asking, begging, pleading or sacrificing your Well-being and happiness is going to make your husband not have anger issues and personal problems that he is refusing to address. 

It's exhausting because he's not invested in changing.   You are firmly stuck in an abuse cycle.  

If I were you, I'd start looking into divorce.  But if you aren't ready for that step-  At least start with personal therapy AND start picturing a life without him.  What would that look like?   More importantly, how does it make you feel?  If it makes you feel wonderful, then I think you ought to strongly at least consider a trial separation.  

We can't make people into who we want them to be.  Believe me, I was in your shoes in my first marriage.  We convince ourselves it "could work" if only A, B, C, D.  But you cannot make someone love you, respect you or treat you how you feel you need to be treated- and if they cannot give you that, or even worse decide to be abusive- that's not a marriage.  It's an abusive dictatorship.  You need to decide if that's how you want to live the rest of your life.  Nothing is going to magically change. 

OP, first I want to give you props for acknowledging your feelings and thinking of how to approach this before jumping into accusation mode with your bf. 

Tread carefully as a new GF, you say you've only been dating for a few months.  Some of these friends may have been his friends for years.  Whatever you do, do not turn it into a "me or them" situation.   I'll be honest if I started dating a man who demanded I dump my friends of years to be with him, I'd drop him like a hot potato.  The good news is you HAVENT done that, and I'm advising and cautioning you to AVOID THAT at all costs. 

Now, You first have to think about what your actual boundaries are.  What is the BEHAVIOR you want from him?  You cannot simply approach this from a "I am insecure" position, as that is truly your issue and not his.  He seems like a decent guy- he appears to be doing everything right- he's not hiding any of these friends from you, he asked how you felt about giving someone a ride, this all signals that he respects you. 

Also, please remember to be fair to him.  It's logical to assume a few months in, you wouldn't meet every single friend he has.  That would be unreasonable. 

Is it that you want to meet them all?  Plan what you want to say to him and what you expect.  Be gentle, because truthfully he is already handling this properly.  He's communicating with you, showing you respect, and asking how you feel.   Remember that he is entitled to some privacy, as long as he's not showing signs of cheating on you or disrespecting you, you don't need to be privy to every single communication he has with every female friend.  You likely would not appreciate it if he acted insecure about every time you messaged another guy friend. 

Really think about what your goal is here.  Your relationship is SO new and he is truthfully doing all he ought to in this moment.  Your own insecurity and jealousy issues are not his to solve.  Perhaps you need to think about if you truly ARE okay with your partner having opposite gender friends.  There's no right or wrong here, but it IS important that you are on the same page about this issue, or you will just be wasting each other's time with this significant incompatibility. 

Take some time to think about this, please.  Because I'm truly not sure what it is in the moment that you wish to see changed on his part.  It's not unreasonable to have not met all of his friends within a few months and he IS talking to you about things instead of hiding them.  Perhaps it may be wise to see how the next few months go and then reassess if a conversation needs to be had.  In the meanwhile, please consider seeing a counselor so you can pinpoint your feelings and try to assess if you really are okay with a partner having opposite gender friends.  That is key. 

13 hours ago, TeeDee said:

Why?  All this EX wants to do is meet the person who will be a mother figure to her kid.  No lawyers required.  

But it sounds like they HAVE met at events and such.  From what the OP says, his ex is mostly interested in badmouthing him and not interested in logical co-parenting.  There's no practical reason for the ex to have her number or to meet with her one on one, seeing as she not investing in co-parenting.  

This really sounds like she just wants the chance to badmouth her ex to his fiancee or try to scare her away or harass her.   Speaking as a stepparent, you actually have very little power/control/say as a stepparent in how the kids are raised or handled by the parents or the parents relationship to each other, even when or if you strongly disagree.  Everything is really up the parents, as a stepparent has no legal authority with both bio parents alive.  So there's really no logical reason for this "meeting" except wanting to get to "know her" I suppose.  However, his ex frankly sounds like she is vindictive and petty, so it seems unlikely that what she truly wants is a friendly "get to know you".   And even IF for arguments sake that IS what she wanted, RIGHT after the engagement, when hurt feelings are fresh, would not be a good idea for anyone. 

I am a stepmom and I am BEGGING YOU- DO NOT LET AN ALONE MEETING WITH THEM HAPPEN!  NOTHING GOOD CAN COME OF THIS!  Even a meeting with YOU there would be unwise AT THIS STAGE. This engagement is new and fresh and your ex is likely (not unfairly) having a strong emotional reaction to it.  It would NOT be healthy at this stage for you all to meet up.   Possibly after things have cooled down, but NOT. NOW. 

My husband's ex was livid when we got engaged- even though they were never getting back together.  She did not want him to be happy.  She tried every trick in the book to try and scare me away, including using the children as emotional blackmail.   

There's simply no reason for the three of you to "meet up" at this moment.  If your ex seemed more stable, I might have a different response, but in your own words " continually doing things to attempt to undermine my credibility as a father, even 2 years after divorce"- that is someone that doesn't seem interested in being a constructive co-parent or having the ability to be fair, rational, or reasonable. 

Do NOT give your ex your fiancee's contacts.

Please Please PLEASE take it from someone who has been in your fiancee's shoes.  At the beginning, I tried so hard to be as kind as possible to my husband's ex-wife. I was extremely patient with her and tried to understand and I absorbed a lot of her hurt and anger.  I felt she deserved to know about me since I would be in her kids lives.  I tried very hard to be empathetic towards her and not get too "involved" in decisions.  I wanted to co-parent with her fairly, logically, and respectfully.  I will have and still never will badmouth her to her children, even though she has not shown me or my husband the same courtesy. 

Unfortunately, your ex sounds like my husband's ex.  She clung to her anger and could NEVER let it go.   All she did with my contact info was to harass me and try to manipulate me into leaving.  When I tried to reason with her, she just called me names.  When I tried to empathize, she insulted.  When I offered love and support, she pushed me away and badmouthed me to everyone, hurling lies about me all over that sadly some people still believe.  I even said " Look, I understand we will never be best friends, but can't we please try to just be civil for the sake of the kids?"  All she did in response was call me names and tell me her kids would never love me and that I was ruining all their lives forever.  I finally reached a point where I had to block her from everything, as she had NO interest in even trying to be a mature adult about things.  From then on, I said it would be best if they just communicated and she and I need not acknowledge each other's existence.  It was terrible, mostly for the kids, but there was no point after trying for nearly 3 years of trying to speak to her when all I got in response to even the simplest of questions, or even offering to support her-  was insults and harassment. 

Sadly, some exes just cannot be and never will be civil, mature, or fair.  Since your ex sounds nearly identical to my husband's ex-there's no need for them to be talking at this stage.  I see they HAVE met.  But I would HIGHLY ADVISE YOU to give this time and to start with a phone call first and see how that goes.  Your ex has NO reason to meet her one or one or to have her phone number- this is not for any constructive reason. DO NOT GIVE HER YOUR FIANCEEs NUMBER!!!!  It really sounds like her intent is to badmouth you and try and scare her away. 

If you ex digs her heels in and cannot be civil, then there's really no reason for them to talk.  Not ideal, but you can't be rational with an irrational person.   Sometimes parallel parenting is necessary when dealing with an emotionally unstable ex, I have BEEN there, so I get it.   Keep doing what you're doing and for now, I'd just give her a firm NO.

GOOD LUCK

Physical attraction is important, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  Not saying you have to think they are the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. It's true that bodies do change- However, there has to be at LEAST some attraction on some level, or it won't work out.   Would you want a woman dating you that could never picture having sex with you?

The only way that could work out is if you were okay with a companionship as opposed to a romantic relationship.  But if you want a romantic relationship, you have to have at least SOME physical attraction to the other person.  Now, I believe this CAN grow over time, but if nothing is there from the start, nothing will change. 

Relationships should never feel like having to "rough it out".  Honestly, would you want a woman saying that about you?  "Well he's nice and all, but in the looks dept, I should rough it out in hopes that someday I MIGHT be attracted to him?"  

There's lot of people out there.  Don't give too much weight to this one person not working out.  And please trust me, as a divorcee- it's much better to wait for the right person than to try to force something to work just because you are lonely and want somebody there. 

A long time ago, I had a male friend that I knew liked me romantically.  I liked him so much as person but felt zero attraction to him.  People were pressuring me to date him because we got along so well, but I still knew I just wasn't romantically attracted to him.  But I decided I shouldn't be "shallow" and tried dating him.  It never felt right.  I actually cringed when he kissed me.  I could NEVER picture having sex with him.  After a couple weeks, I called it quits cause I knew going forward would be dishonest and giving him false hope that this could be more than just a good friendship.  I learned a lot from that.  You can learn to like someone, you can learn to LOVE someone, but you cannot learn to be attracted to someone.  You either are or you aren't- and that doesn't make you shallow, it makes you human. 

Unless you want a sexless relationship, attraction is important in a romantic one. 

To allay your fears- No, you are NOT a "homewrecker".  To be honest, I hate that word, anyway.  It's almost exclusively applied to women as if the taken guy she dated ISN'T cheating scum who likely either flat out lied to her, gave her half truths or just pretended to be single. 

And even IF the dude is honest about being married, this MARRIED MAN is still choosing to cheat, so how does the woman end up with the title "Homewrecker" as if the man had NO free will in the situation. Dude wrecked his OWN home. IMVHO, it always MORE the person who is attached that should be blamed than the single person.   I weary of married women who stay with cheating husbands and just blame "that Jezebel".  OR, you're husband is just a cheater who doesn't love or respect you.  And if it wasn't her, it'd be someone else- cause someone who is determined to cheat- will.  

It sounds like they really were not together when you dated.  But do learn a lesson from this.  Dating people with kids can be messy, especially if they still live together.  You didn't do anything wrong.  People who are madly in love don't go out and date other people.  That was his choice.  He moved out, so they obviously were not still together.  It's highly unlikely you contributed to the problems they had.  It doesn't sound like they got back together, either.  But it's good to know what you can and can't handle.  A lot of drama comes from dating people with kids, especially if the kid is still young.  Trusting your gut is usually the best thing. 

In the meantime, take it easy on yourself.   

16 hours ago, chess103 said:

 

I know what I did was wrong. Someone asked why I haven't really put in the effort to salvage the marriage. Yes I do it owe it to my wife and daughter to try. I think user Redswim nailed it. I just don't think I'm in love. I've actually had discussions with my wife actually about my conflicting view on our marriage lately. I don't know if she's in denial but for some weird reason, I don't think she fully grasps the idea on how disconnected I feel with her even after telling her. We even had some alone time albeit briefly without my kid and I just didn't feel much. I did bring up the topic on more than one occasion. But yes the effort hasn't been as much as it should objectively be and I'm owning that.

My gut is telling me I don't have enough in me to love her the way she deserves. In the meantime, I'm still going to therapy and will seek some legal advice if it does happen.

I know I messed up guys/gals. No excuses. I just feel like crap about the entire situation and how I've handled it but I gotta keep moving forward.

 

You can't change what happened.  Like you said, all you can do is move forward and try to apply what lessons you have learned from it. 

IMVHO, and some people may disagree, but if you already know you aren't in love with you wife and know that any "efforts" you make are going to be half hearted on your part, then there's really no point going through those motions and giving your wife a sense of false hope where there really isn't any.  I actually think if you already know where your feelings lie and you don't see them changing, then you should be honest with both yourself and with her that it is over.  It does no one ANY good to pretend to "make the effort" if you already know your heart isn't in it.  IMVHO, to do so would actually be cruel to your wife to pretend you are invested when you really aren't.  Let me tell you in all honesty as someone who was married to someone who kept giving me false hope that he was interested in "fixing things" when he really WASN'T- the emotionally yo-yoing he put me through was MUCH worse than if he had just been honest with me about wanting a divorce in the first place.  We ended up divorcing anyways, but now besides just being heartbroken, I also felt deceived and that he had wasted my time.  

It's likely your wife is either in denial about your true feelings OR (and this happens more often that you may think) she may KNOW but cares more about keeping you there as a husband and father figure than worrying about true closeness.  For some people, that's enough.  However, you aren't obligated to stay in a romantically loveless marriage to make someone else comfortable.  I think it's time to be totally honest and let go of the security blanket.   Do this after you have a safe place to go to and have gathered information.  But I think it's going to be necessary to have a real and tough conversation with your wife. You need to tell her how unhappy and unfulfilled you are romantically and that you had an ongoing affair. This may snap her into reality about how serious your issues are.   She may want to divorce you for that alone.  (No matter what she has said in in the past, you never know until you are IN that situation how you will really feel).  Or she may decide that a friendship marriage is enough for her.  But you will never know until you face the music.  You also need to consider what you really want deep down. 

I know divorce is scary.  I've been there.  But honestly, you are already emotionally divorced from her. She should get to have a say in how she really feels about that and how she wants to proceed- with full disclosure from you.  Then you can both make an informed decision together.  I hope for your sake she is truly interested a non-messy divorce. 

21 hours ago, chess103 said:

Everything you said makes sense. We tried working on the marriage but honestly not enough and that's my fault. Yes my wife deserves better which does eat me alive. I even told her that. I am seeing a therapist this Saturday to sort out my crap but it's a mess I created which I'm not proud about. And yes, I am afraid of being alone, I can admit. I'm scared. But I know that if I'm capable of having an affair, it could happen again which just can't happen.

 

Sometimes working on a marriage can resolve issues but only if both parties all fully invested.  IMVHO, it likely didn't work because the truth is that deep down you are just not in love with your wife (you already know this) and don't really want to be married to her.  You want her friendship and for her to think well of you and serve as your buffer for not being alone. 

This is why the idea of divorce felt fine to you when you thought you could have another person filling your voids, but now without that backup, you are scared.   I get it.  Being alone can be scary.  But the truth is you are already alone, even if you still live in the same house as your wife.  

We all have to confront our inner issues alone, whether are are married, dating someone or single.  No other person can fix problems inside us. I'm glad you said you are getting into therapy, as I think this will help give you clarity and start you on a good path towards healing. 

IMVHO, you are never going to be the best version of yourself or be the best partner you can be until you start resolving your own issues.   Please face facts that you are no longer in love with your wife. You are staying with her out of fear, complacency and comfort.  If you were madly in love with her or truly deeply wanted your marriage to work, you wouldn't have sought (and kept) and affair and even offered to get a divorce for her.  Please divorce her so she can be free to find someone who really wants her as a spouse and not just as a friend/security blanket.    You are already just friends with your wife, so why not make it official and do the truly loving thing by letting her go to find someone that really wants her. 

Only after you work on your own personal traumas and healing will you really be able to see if you want or can be a good partner to another person.   Facing trauma and working towards healing are scary things.  But this is a journey you should take alone.  

Why is it you were willing to divorce your wife when this over woman was in the picture, but now that she is gone you are reluctant?  

This suggests that you don't really care about staying married to your wife, you are just afraid of being alone.   

You need to get divorced as you are no longer in love with your wife and clearly only interested in staying with her for financial reasons and possibly for your child. 

Please re-read your post.  Please take note that there is no mention of you trying to work through issues with your wife.  Everything you mention about your wife is really about you.  Nowhere do you say you love your wife and don't want to hurt her.  You express more worry for yourself and about this other woman, than you do for your wife and child.  That should really tell you everything.  Your heart and mind are not on your marriage.  You don't really care about your marriage nor are you invested in saving it.  

If you are no longer in love with your wife and stood ready to divorce her for someone you were having an affair with, then you do NOT have "everything you need".   Staying in a loveless marriage in which you are cheating on your wife and offering to leave her for another woman IS extremely selfish.   Divorcing your wife would be the honest and right thing to do.  If you remain emotionally unhappy and can't connect with your wife, you will only continue to cheat on her.  Please do not stay with her out of complacency or fear.  Do not stay in this marriage because you have a nice house and child.   I doubt your wife signed up for a "marriage" in which her husband stays with her for the nice house and for friendship while he goes off and has love affairs that he is willing to leave her for. 

You can't take back the past but you can control your present and future.   Please divorce your wife.  She doesn't deserve to be your consolation friendship relationship if the romantic one with your girlfriend doesn't work out, so that you can look like a good guy and remain in your nice house. 

15 hours ago, Watchman85 said:

  I have rationalized that this situation I am in, while far from being ideal, satisfies everyone.  My wife and child keep their husband and father and our family life is not impacted in any way.  I have my needs satisfied both physically and emotionally, and my mistress also gets her needs satisfied without having to sacrifice her independence or put up with me all the time. 

My mistress is a busy single mom of 3 children and doesn't really want to get married or give up the independence of her own home.

I know some folks will wonder why I don't just leave if my wife isn't enough but it is too hard; I really do love her so much, she is my best friend and someone I would trust with my life but I just can't ignore my needs anymore, I have to have some self respect and think about myself and my mental health.  That gut wrenching rejection I would feel every time my wife would make excuses, be thoughtless or indifferent, make me feel like an obligation, or just not be into it, was really affecting my self esteem and happiness. 

Your family is already being impacted by this, whether you see it or not.  You are already on the route to divorce, whether you see it or not.  Kids are smarter than you think.  You are currently modeling for your daughter a blueprint for how she will view relationships and marriage. 

Your Girlfriend not wanting to marry you or give up independence does not mean she has not or will not form any emotional attachment to you or at some point feel possessive of you. 

If your wife really IS your best friend- then as best friends you should admit that you are in not love with each other anymore. (Loving someone as a person is not the same as being IN LOVE with them). Many people who divorce still have love for each other, but cannot live with severe incompatibility.  You have severe incompatibility as spouses, even if you are compatible as friends.    You need to tell her the FULL truth and let her decide if she wants to stay in a sham/friendship marriage or get a divorce so you can both be with people who you are both more compatible with.  And so your child has a healthy example.  You are risking more than you think- you know your GF's kids COULD say something to your kid, right?  If they haven't already- " You know your Dad comes to our mom's house all the time?"  It's VERY easy with the internet and social media for kids to communicate without grownups knowing.  If nothing else, you should think about protecting your child. Kids hear stuff thru the grapevine all the time these days. 

You and your wife are lying to each other and avoiding telling each other the truth about your feelings- divorce is inevitable.  This is not in any way a happy or healthy marriage. You either need to step up and admit it now or it will come out later in a much worse- and likely unexpected way.  This sham marriage is not sustainable. 

Divorces do not have to be messy and terrible. 

Many people are in fact BETTER parents when they can focus on parenting as opposed to their struggling marriage.  I'd argue that sometimes divorces are better for children than having two struggling parents that live together as roommates. 

You may love your wife and she may love you, but you are clearly not IN LOVE with each other anymore.  You said it yourself, she feels like a sister and she is definitely treating you as a sibling or friend as well, not as a spouse. 

If you did not have a child, would you consider a divorce?  IMVHO, staying in a marriage ONLY for the kids is usually a bad idea and for more toxic for the child that parents even realize. 

You SAY you wife was fine with having an "open marriage", but I'm wondering if she truly knows you look on her as a sister. And that this other woman is NOT just an "affair partner or mistress", you are softening this for both her and yourself- this woman is your GIRLFRIEND- Please stop lying to yourself about this.  You are married with a girlfriend which is not fair to either woman, and I don't think you wife really fully realizes this.  Your GF might be fine with this for now, but I'm doubting she will be forever.  You need to face facts about this before things get really messy. 

You need to sit down and have a frank conversation with your wife. You may be married on paper, but neither of you is really behaving as though you are married. You with your girlfriend and her not caring about intimacy with you at all.  You should have a real conversation about this, "I need to be honest with you about how I am feeling.  No matter what happens, I want to focus on raising our child together.  However, I no longer feel romantic feelings for you, and I feel like you have also checked out of the marriage romantically.  I am feeling like we are more like siblings or friends than spouses.  If you do not want to divorce under any circumstances, then we need to be open about how we are honestly feeling about each other instead of ignoring it.  I have a girlfriend.  She is not just a casual sex partner. If you are okay with me keeping a girlfriend who can meet my needs that you cannot, then perhaps we can work out staying married.  Or if you are not okay with this, then perhaps we should discuss separating and continuing to be good parents to our child.  Divorce is an option, and we can maintain a good relationship if it comes to this."

You need to have this conversation, because this is what you aren't saying to each other.  You are both avoiding reality.  If you do not have this conversation by choice, it WILL happen eventually under more heated circumstances.  Ironically by not bringing up the possibility of divorce, you are almost ensuring you will HAVE a messy one if you continue to ignore and sweep reality under the rug in the long term. 

Having your cake and eating it too will only last for so long. 

It sounds like your wife is emotionally selfish. 

You clearly vented your heart out to her.  Her response is friendly, but not supportive or holding a strong desire to help you work through all these feelings. 

First thing is first, please see someone about your depression.   It will only be helpful to you, no matter what is going on within your marriage. 

Sorry you got rejected from the job.  But remember, it's just one job.  There will be more. 

You and your wife need to sit down and talk about things.  While it's not her job to "fix" your depression.  It IS her job to be supportive and to be as emotionally open and available to you as you seem to be towards her.  It's interesting that she says you complain too much, but it also sounds like when you express anything less than pleasant emotions, her response is to shut down.  No wonder you feel emotionally alone, it's because you ARE.   You are basically in a no win emotional situation with her.  She doesn't want to hear complaining, yet when you are fair and vulnerable she shuts down.  You do not have healthy communication here.   I would strongly recommend getting into couples therapy.  

You both need some help defining your emotional needs.   Marriage takes two and you BOTH need to be fully invested in creating change and improvements.  If you both aren't in this, your marriage will only continue to deteriorate little by little, until it reaches a boiling point and one (or both) of you can't take it anymore and separate.   Take it from me, your marriage is on a bad path.  NOW is the time to try and correct it, not brush it under the rug just hoping things will get better.  Honesty and therapy time. 

He's not in the wrong, YOU are.  There was and is NO cheating going on here. 

You broke up.  He made it VERY clear how he felt about you, and that he had no intention of getting back together with you. 

It's not his fault you were in denial about his honesty.   You asking him to stay was a mistake.  You expected that you could manipulate him into wanting you again, and when that didn't happen- you got mad. 

You are being unreasonable.  He's under no obligation to like you back just because you still have feelings for him, that's your problem- not his.  You have no right to feel betrayed.  He did nothing wrong.  He was honest with you.  You just didn't want to believe it.  You thought if you continued to "play house" everything would just work out the way you wanted it to, that he would read your mind, and change his, all without ever having a conversation about your own feelings and desires.  You are the one that was lying to yourself and to him.  

If he has feelings for someone else and he knows you still have feelings for him, then moving out was the right thing for him to do.  This is actually honorable of him.  I understand you are upset because he hurt your feelings and your ego.  But you were already broken up and he made his feelings and intentions clear to you.

Move on and let go.  Breakups hurt.  You are just coming out of your denial that he no longer wants to be a relationship with you.  It has hurt your feelings and your pride.  But none of that is his fault or problem. 

In my experience as a woman, YES- most women are insecure/worried about talking too much around someone they like.   Why?  Because we are often silenced, shushed, told to minimize ourselves, told we're "obnoxious" if we talk too much.  Honestly, my own husband "shushed" me the other day.  When I was single, I would often apologize for talking too much, worried a man wouldn't like me if I did.   Even with close friends, I sometimes do this.  Part of it is just cultural for all the reasons I mentioned above.  Part of it is nerves, I talk more when I really like someone- so, I'd take this as a strong sign that she likes you! 

On 3/10/2024 at 9:20 PM, lostandhurt said:

I totally agree.  Telling your spouse "there's the door if you don't like it" is someone that needs help opening up and being honest with you and herself.  She has obviously changed and wants no type of intimacy at all which is not good.  She sounds like a cold person that would rather be alone.

 Intimacy in a supposedly loving marriage is important.  Intimacy does not mean intercourse, it means being intimate with each other emotionally and physically.  A warm hug, a kiss for no reason, playful touching and on and on.

 It sounds to me like she may think she loves you but by the way she treats you she is definitely not in love with you any longer.

Talk to her and ask her if she would be willing to attend marriage counseling with you.  If she declines then go by yourself so you can have someone to help you figure what is best for your life.

 Loving her to bits is not enough

I am sorry

 Lost

Please read this over and over- almost exactly what I was going to say. 

Intimacy is much more than just sex, and you have been extremely patient, understanding and accommodating.  It's another thing altogether to not want to demonstrate any kind of affection to your partner.  That is actually being cruel.  It's unreasonable to expect you to treat your wife like a platonic friend, when that is not the marriage you signed up for.  Just remember, you can't be in marriage of one.  You are willing to meet her halfway, she has to be willing to come the other half or this will never work. 

Your wife is holding onto some secret she doesn't wish to share.  What that is, I don't know.  This is much more than just physical to her, she is making the choice to actively push you away and even daring you to leave her.  IMVHO, people only do this for a few reasons- 

1. They are just done with the relationship, but instead of being honest, push the other person to break up with them under the guise of "You deserve better than me"

2. They have someone else waiting in the wings

3.  Worst of all, they want to change the dynamic completely without caring how you feel about it 

None of these is great.  What Lost said is accurate.  Please don't beat your brains out thinking there's some magical thing you can do or say to change her mind or mindset.  There isn't.  This is NOT going to be cured with "date nights".

If I were you, I'd consult a lawyer.  Your marriage is on a fast track to Divorceland.  Only AFTER you have your ducks in a row, it's up to you if you want to make one honest and last ditch effort with her to attempt to save the marriage.  But your wife has to be willing to be honest with you, and she is NOT being fully honest with you.  She's hiding behind an operation THREE YEARS AGO, but do not let her manipulate your compassion.  Operations don't prevent someone from wanting to cuddle or hug.  Operations don't make your wife call you SELFISH for wanting some level of physical (non sexual) level of closeness with her.  She may still have some love for you, but that is not how someone who is IN LOVE with you acts.  I agree with you, OP_ she's not in love with you anymore. 

Stop trying to compromise with her, don't try and get her to therapy- because none of that is going to work as long as she refuses to be HONEST with you.  Something (besides the operation 3 years ago) has changed for her EMOTIONALLY.  But instead of telling you and trying to work thru it with you, she's calling you selfish and daring you to leave if you don't "like it".  This isn't going to be healthy for either of you in the long term. 

Time to face the facts.  Your wife wants to dictate a new marriage to you totally on her terms.  You need to decide if you want to live as friends for the rest of your life, because that is what she seems to want.  If not, consult a lawyer.  Only after you have things figure out, if you think it's worth it, you can ask her if she's willing to tell you the truth and meet you halfway.  But I think you already know the answer to that.  

2 hours ago, Junebug03 said:

Thank you for your advice. I'll be honest, there are some factors in our relationship that do make things a little difficult.

I also didn't realize this until I started this relationship, but I am deeply insecure. I'm afraid that I'm not good enough, that he'll get tired of me and leave me for another girl. I am not his first relationship, while he is mine. I am realizing that I do not trust him as much as I want to, but I think the only way I can develop this trust more is by communicating my needs with him. If I can't do that, I know that our relationship will be doomed to fail. 

I am lonely, because I'm currently in my 1st year of college. I'm doing a lot with school, but I'm still trying to make friends. I recognize that in order to have a healthy balance, I need more in my life than just him. He definitely has more going on in his life than just me. That might be one reason for this jealously and nervousness about what he's doing. I also know that I can't expect him to tell me what he's doing all the time. If he expected that of me, I'd be out of there faster than you could blink. 

He constantly does little things that prove that he likes me, and enjoys our relationship. We go to college in different cities, but only 20 minutes away without traffic. I don't have a car, so he constantly drives back and forth to see me. Sometimes, if we're both busy, he'll come up just for a little hello and a hug. He has a photo of me on his dashboard, he keeps all the art I make him, and I do believe that he's a good person who will listen to my needs.

He think's what he's doing is ok, because I don't say otherwise. You're right, he isn't a mind reader, and I can't expect that of him. I say to him that I value honesty and good communication, but I can't do the same myself. 

I'm sorry for the rant, but I do appreciate yours and everyone's feedback. It's not only calming me down, but it's giving me the other perspective I needed.

Everything will be ok. This relationship is not wholly me but only a part of it. Instead of spiraling, I need to be proactive, and focus on what is there right now and not what could be. 

You're welcome.  It's your first major relationship, so a large part of this is going to be a learning process for you.  We learn a lot about ourselves when we are in committed relationships.  And you are right, sometimes what we learn surprises us.  Especially by way of our own flaws, issues, and how our past has shaped us to believe and feel things. 

Acknowledging your issues is the first step to improving them.  I'm proud of you for admitting and accepting your own issues.  It's important to remember this for this and future relationships-  NO partner can fix the issues within us.  No man will ever be able to fix your insecurity for you and other women are always going to exist in the world.   Being aware and okay with that is a journey that you have to do yourself.  All the time I witness people who self-sabotage relationships because they LOOK for things to justify and validate their beliefs or insecurities, whether they are actually true or not.  (IE I'm afraid he's going to cheat on/leave me- so I'm going to read into every single interaction that could possibly validate that belief, even though he's given me no solid reason to not actually trust him)

I highly recommend you take two actions as soon as you can.  First, communicate with him about what you would like in your relationship.  But approach it from a positive and non-accusatory place.  For example, " I think it's so great that you have awesome and supportive friends.  I genuinely like them and enjoy hanging out with them.  But, if you and I are planning to hang out together since our time is always limited, I would like to ask you if in the future we could please have a conversation before inviting friends to join us. It would really mean a lot to me and would make me feel like you value my feelings and input about how we manage our time together."    And see how that goes. 

Second, put yourself out there more.  Do more things without him.  This will go a long way to not only building your self esteem, but to see yourself as valuable person worthy of love, respect, and attention from people other than your boyfriend.   Significant others should never be our only valuable relationships. 

You hit the nail on the head.  Everything WILL be all right.  🙂 You just need to approach things from a positive and proactive place.  You're still very young and have a lot of time to explore what is, live in the moment.  I can tell you as a woman that has done and seen a lot in my life, please don't ever waste your time on what COULD be.  Try to see and appreciate what is your life now.  Life and relationships often don't go quite as we expect them to, but that doesn't mean things can't be beautiful.  Learn to let go of what isn't meant for you and embrace the positive you do have.   All the best to you. 

I'm sorry to tell you- I think it would be wise of you to dump her.   She doesn't sound like a sweet person at all.  She sounds like a selfish liar who cared more about her own ego in that moment, by her own admission "didn't remember you existed"?, did it MULTIPLE times (not once) and then lied about it and tried to make herself seem like the victim.   Does that really sound like a "sweet" person to you?

More than her cheating is the fact that she didn't tell you the truth, until she felt guilty enough to do so.  I think it's really telling of her immaturity, her selfishness and how dishonest she is that her first response was to deny responsibility and try to make it seem like she was "forced" into kissing this guy, multiple times.   Is this really the type of person you want to spend your life with?  Do you have low self esteem? 

The real red flag here is her response to everything which is more worrisome than pretending you don't exist (which is still pretty bad) because she was attracted to someone else.  Sorry but IMVHO, she is still lying to you about "not enjoying it", that's to try and spare your feelings.  Generally speaking, I (and most women) wouldn't kiss someone twice that I didn't enjoy kissing the first time.  IMVHO, ONE kiss would have been a mistake.  TWO kisses is a CHOICE.  Please don't lie to yourself about that.  If she hated the first one (or cared about being loyal to you), she would have stopped the second one. 

If you stay with her, I strongly believe that even if she never cheats on you again (which I personally think she is likely to), how will you ever trust her?  Is she always going to lie to get herself out of making herself look bad? Think about yourself- if the two of you have a bad fight, is she going to deny any culpability and place all the blame on you?  You say honesty is important to you, so do you really want to be in a relationship with someone who continuously lies to you?  Love isn't enough when it comes to compatibility.  I think you aren't compatible in this area of honesty.  Stay with her if you want to, and you seem to want to, but don't be shocked when this happens again.  "When someone shows you who they really are, believe them the first time."   Look, I don't think she's the world's worst person, but even if you wanted to really reach and chalk this up to a "one time mistake" she STILL sounds exceptionally selfish, immature and her gut instinct is to lie to make herself look better.  Is that really what you want in a long term partner?

You say this is your first serious relationship, so I'm going to give you some advice as someone in her second marriage. 

You say you are ok with being friends with people of the opposite sex, but are you?  Really think about this.  You haven't and will not have met every single woman he's ever been friends with in his life and you won't necessarily (highly unlikely) to meet every single female he ever interacts with- be it a colleague, a past friend, or even someone he once flirted with.  I always advise people to tread lightly here.  Remember that your BF isn't a possession, and it's actually not healthy to want to be (and I'm not saying YOU are, but things can take this turn if you aren't careful) the only person of the opposite gender he cares about on any level. Think about yourself- do you feel the need to "report" to him about every interaction you've ever had with any male ever?  I'd dive deep here into what really bothers you about this.  You are RIGHT in that you DO need to be able to trust each other.  We live in a co-ed world, he's going to interact with other women all the time.  I personally believe men that are capable of having platonic female friends are less likely to cheat than men who simply view women as romantic interests and nothing more.  If you feel the need to have a conversation about your feelings, make sure you are expressing how you feel without accusation and with the understanding that any agreement you make or parameters you set can and will be held to you in an opposite circumstance. 

You say he has poor communication, but it doesn't sound like you are the greatest at it either by your own admission.  So, I would first examine yourself.  Remember, he's not a mind reader.  If you don't express your needs, you cannot hold him accountable for invisible expectations. 

Now onto my advice for you-  It sounds like you need to sit down and have an honest, open, and calm conversation in which you express your needs to him.  But please understand, he may not fully agree with it.  This is where it turns into a real and adult conversation.  It's not like in the movies, where someone says what they want and their partner immediately sees their POV and does it.  You can expect some level of pushback or even upset, and then you see if you can reach a compromise.  But rarely in life, does a partner actually say " Yes, dear.  Anything you say, dear." So do not go in expecting that to be the outcome.  Can I ask what you are so upset about?  Your problems seem very typical for a young couple and nothing outrageous or even bad.  Your BF isn't even technically doing anything wrong at all.  

I think perhaps it would be wise for you to seek individual therapy.  I wonder if there's some underlying issues going on with you that this relationship is trudging up for you.  Perhaps you aren't ready to be in a serious committed relationship?  Please understand I do NOT mean that as an insult in any way.  But I do need to comment to you- ANY person you are ever going to be in a relationship with- You cannot control everything they do.  It's up to you to state your feeling and expectations and then see if you can reach a compromise.  But no one is ever going to be a mind reader, and that's unreasonable on your part. 

I think you really need to take your BF out of the equation and dig deep into what the source of this hurt is for you.  You mention feeling alone.  Could it potentially be that you feel some resentment towards your BF for having multiple sources of support while you feel like you only have HIM?  I don't know, but I think it's worth you thinking about and consulting an unbiased expert. 

So you slept with someone else and "just realized" you had an affair?  Most people would consider sleeping with someone else an affair. 

If it was just emotional, it would be more understandable.  You bonded over losing this woman that you both loved deeply.   However, the question is once it became physical, why didn't you stop it after a kiss? 

That would have been the time to recognize that a line has been crossed. 

Sorry to say, unless you think no one in your family will ever see or talk to your BIL ever again, you're going to have to tell your husband.  This isn't some stranger at a bar.  Or even a coworker.  Stuff with family members is super duper messy, because it's going to come out eventually.   Your husband already seems to know and instead of fully confessing, you are gaslighting him, hoping to alleviate your guilt and hoping it will change the facts. 

But the facts are, you've ALREADY blown up your marriage whether or not your husband ever finds out about the physical cheating, because he no longer trusts you.  You had an affair.  Accept that.  I highly recommend individual counseling.

You are going to have to come clean and tell him.  The least you owe him is honesty, so that he can decide  what he wants to do.  He may choose to work on things with you in couples counseling.  He may decide he's done.  But the longer you wait to tell him the truth, while he suspects it anyway, is going to make everything worse.  Continuing to lie to him after already cheating on him will blow up any chance for a reconciliation.  Sorry, but this is your BIL- there's just no way on earth your husband is never going to find out.  And if he doesn't hear it from you, the worse it will be. 

If this was just a momentary lapse of judgment and kissed once and stopped it before it went further, I'd say let it go.  But you slept with him.  It takes a LOT of YES's to reach the point of sleeping with someone- there's so many "checkpoints" you have to go thru and you made that decision.  Time to face the consequences of your affair.   Your husband is never going to stop questioning until he reaches the truth.  The only question is do you want him to hear it from you as a place to start to heal or thru the grapevine in a manner that will assuredly obliterate any hope for future reconciliation?  

10 minutes ago, quark said:

You know what, you're right.  I guess it just feels awkward now, well after the fact.  I did not want to come off as jealous or "crazy", but I really feel like I have a right to know given the context.  I know myself, and if I don't nip this in the bud, I will go down a spiral of constantly checking her socials and his phone until I either feel satisfied or discover something hurtful.

 

Edit - similarly -- part of why this is bothering me so much is that maybe he didn't bring it up for fear that I would get upset.  I would hope that we are at a place in our relationship where he knows that I am comfortable and confident in our relationship.  (and therefore wont fly off the handle about Tricia)

Let's make one thing clear- She's NOT a stalker.  I've had stalkers- I blocked them on everything and called the cops.  I did NOT give them my cell phone number and communicate with them regularly- LOL.  She's in his life because he LETS her be. 

Your real fear has nothing to do with this woman.  Your real feel you've expressed here.  You and your BF have not reached a place where you both feel comfortable being completely honest with each other.  THAT's your real issue.  

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please, Please follow the advice of an attorney instead of these ad hoc conversations with her. 

By giving her the heads up and entertaining these raw deals she's proposing, you're putting yourself in a precarious position. You don't discuss your separation agreement with your estranged spouse and she sort of makes it up to her advantage. Your attorney talks to her attorney. 

Please keep your communication with legal counsel private and confidential. Do not disclose anything to her. Get your ducks in a row first.

Please understand that separation/divorce is a lawsuit with a plaintiff and defendant. Unfortunately that's necessary to dissolve the marriage, division of assets and custody decisions. 

^THIS! 

OP, you need to do three things immediately. 

1. DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE under any circumstances.  Even if you or she sleep in different rooms or one of you on the couch.  If she wants to leave, she can.  After all, she's the one who wants "independence".  She cannot force you to leave your own house.  If you leave, this will only make things worse for you in the long run- DO NOT DO IT. 

2. STOP trying to logic this out with your wife.  She's made it pretty clear that she is going to do whatever she wants, no matter what you say.  She has zero interest in being fair or kind to you.  Do NOT let her emotionally manipulate you about "what's best for your child", when all she's interested in at the moment is herself.   Also, she is bringing alternate lifestyle into the conversation, which is pretty insulting and belittling to these communities.  Poly-amorous relationships only work when BOTH people are poly-amorous (or at least ok with it).  What she is describing is not polyamory anyway.  She is describing a relationship in which you are faithful to her while she abandons you physically and emotionally, acts single and cheats on you, her monogamous husband.   She's only thinking of herself.  She clearly doesn't care what happens to you and is already trying to set things up in which she gets everything she wants and you get screwed over.  She's trying to made it look like- YOU left the house, and she was left alone with your child.  She wants to try to have everything- Do whatever she wants regardless of how you feel and STILL trying to make it look like she is a good wife and mother, when she isn't being either right now.  STOP telling her your plans or your innermost thoughts.  

3. CONSULT AN ATTORNEY RIGHT NOW.   Seriously.  Please do this right away! You need LEGAL advice from an expert.  Do not do ANYTYHING until you speak to an attorney.  Do NOT leave the house, no matter how heated things get.  I'm sorry to say that you have to accept facts that your marriage is over and begin making a plan to protect yourself and your child.   SAVE ALL YOUR TEXTS and anything you have in writing from your wife.  DO NOT let your emotions control you.  Get solid legal advice and then work out what you will do. 

I'm so sorry you are going through this, OP.   I know it hurts.  The best thing you can do to protect yourself is to stay put, consult an attorney and remain in your house.  You need to find a good attorney and make a solid plan.  This is the only way to protect you and your child. 

Hey OP, 

I am sorry you are going through this. BUT- this is your GF's problem. 

There's a difference between "dominant behavior" and aggressiveness. The fact that her mother isn't teaching her this difference is horrifying.  Maybe she'll learn this when someone who isn't her parent has to deal with this aggressiveness and she gets into some serious trouble. 

Listen, OP- I'm a stepparent.  And you are right, it can be INSANELY challenging to keep your mouth shut when you see ways the child is being raised or has been raised that you disagree with.  But it's important to remember that no matter how frustrating it can be, they are the child in this situation.  After all, she did not choose you, her mother did.  It's her mother that is both causing the problems and refusing to address them. 

I'm very lucky, because when I first got together with my husband, his kids weren't jazzed to meet me.  But HE stepped in and told them, " I know I did not raise you to be this rude.  Someone is kindly greeting you, please respond to her." 

Sadly, not all parents are good at disciplining their children or drawing lines in the sand about how they are expected to treat others.  Sounds like your partner sucks at it. 

Also, sorry to tell you- Most parents, no matter how badly the child behaves- and especially THESE days with the "my kid is perfect" attitudes- most will NOT take kindly to criticism of their children, even if it's warranted.   This is an either deal with it or consider moving on type of deal.  (You also are now getting a taste of why being a stepparent is the toughest job in the world.  You should really consider if dating someone with a kid is right for you)

The good news is the daughter is 17 and will maybe go to college in a year and do some growing up.  But I do understand you, teen behavior can be tough to deal with. 

For the record, I DO think your GF is too unhealthily attached to her daughter, I DO think she is teaching and enforcing terrible behavior that will get her in trouble or at least make her wildly unpopular.  But none of this is the core issue.  Your GF does not stand up for you or make you a priority.  Those are HER choices that really have nothing to do with her difficult daughter. 

30 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please consult an attorney for information support and advice. You have a child and joint assets involved. Do not abandon the house. If she wants to sleep elsewhere,  move out, sell the house, fine. 

Please try not to get emotional and have ad hoc random talks here and there. Do not under any circumstances follow her advice or suggestions.

What she "feels" is irrelevant. She's cheating. This has nothing to do with "masculine and feminine energy". Please don't blame yourself or go down these YouTube rabbit holes.

Please take care of yourself and your child only. Please seek individual counselling for information ongoing support and advice privately and confidentiality.  Start to get neutral objective professional advice.v

She is setting things up for divorce and buying time. Please don't be blindsided. 

OP, please re-read this over and over again. 

Do not blame yourself.

Protect yourself and your child.  Consult an attorney now.