Soon_tobex
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Problem is: I really don't think she knows what she wants. In fact I have asked her to envision her perfect future and she brushes off the question as "immature" or "stupid". She just doesn't have those type of conversations. Maybe because she doesn't KNOW how to answer the question and is scared that she can't answer it, she thereforeeee brushes it off as stupid. When I ask her what she wants she'll answer with different answers. Respect. Put the lid on the peanut butter. Don't park the car in her spot. More attention from me. For me to report the ambulance driver. The 'attention' thing is BS. A couple of years ago I had a very easy job (life was great!) and I was home a lot. We took walks every morning together, did stuff. It was fun (at least I thought it was, I don't know what she thought). Well, during that period she through a pot at me. Put a big hole in the drywall. I don't remember the reason. So I was giving her lots of attention then and she wasn't happy (apparently). The 'respect' thing I have trouble responding too - I do not know what that means. I do not talk down to her, I don't speak badly about her. I tell her I love her, etc. I love what she does around the house (and I really do) and tell everybody how she has made our place so great. And all the other things (peanut butter, etc) .. frankly my view is: f off. I do (enough) stuff around here and there's no way I'm going to remember all your damn rules. So deal with it. I dunno man.... should it be soooo hard? Shouldn't life be fun???? Am I a bad guy for wanting to take my wife to a B&B for a weekend and just do some antique shopping then come home? I do NOT pester her for sex. I'm done pestering. It's demeaning and I don't do it anymore. I like sex. A lot. And she doesn't. At all. We never had swing from the chandelier sex. It was ok way back when. Never great - but I was good with it. Now we never have it. And I don't think she misses it. Now that is scary to me. Cause for me, I'm hitting my stride. I got the money, the car, the slightly receding hairline and there are women who would be more than happy to go to Vail and get naked. She won't. I just don't think she ever will. I think I can try all I want and she just won't. I know that the grass isn't always greener. But, damn. What's the big deal - let's go to Atlantic City we'll bet $20, watch a show, sleep in a big comfy bed and go home. It would be NICE to get naked (and hardly unreasonable) but I do not make that a condition of the trip. I do NOT want to have sex with someone who feels obligated. I want her to want to. I just can't imagine a way through to her. Part of me says: try something you've never tried: be an AH. Be a complete dolt. Do what you want. Maybe she'll wake up. I doubt it. It's probably too late anyway.
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I don't drink, smoke, drug, fool around. I'm in good shape, made $500k last year. I'm a good father, fun, and funny. I do more than my fair share around the house. I know how to use a tablesaw. I work hard, but am home 5 out of 7 nights for dinner. I'm not conceited (contrary to how the last few sentences may sound!). She doesn't drink, smoke, drug, fool around. She's in good shape and doesn't work outside the home. Great mom. Kids are 16, 14, 13. She does everything around the house. We have had sex 1 time in the past 14 months and have averaged 3 times a year for the last 5 to 6 years. She hasn't hugged me, kissed me, said "i love you" in at least 10 years. She won't go to a movie, to dinner, to lunch with me alone. We haven't been away as adults in 16 years. Haven't sat in a hot bubble bath together in 20. She won't go to a play, the opera, or skiing - or anything that most people would say is "fun". Yesterday she gave me some lip because, while working from my home office, I made a PB&J sandwhich during a conference call and left the jar of PB without the lid on the counter. Here's my view - and maybe here's why I'm in this whole darn situation: I want to do fun things. I want to spend some (not all ) of the money I make. I'd like to take her to Vail and sit by a fire with hot chocolate and a book for a weekend. I expect (that's a strong word, but it's how I feel) a little something in return for what I contribute to this marriage. I think that she thinks that since she does everything around the house (cooking, cleaning, yard work, painting, etc) that she is contributing 'enough'. My view: I can pay someone to do all the yard work and I can send every dirty sock to a laundry. What I want is a wife, NOT a laborer. I WANT a woman who will (ONCE in a while, for heaven's sake) meet me at the door with a kiss, a wink, and say "I shipped the kids to your mother's for the weekend - take me to the city. I'll make it worth your while, you big lug". I'm 44 and I'm increasingly wondering why this situation is this way. Should I walk?
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Slipping backwards. Badly. Had a long talk with my wife last night. We talked about ways to avoid divorce. But I was the one pushing hard to find ideas to improve 'us'. She is not a horrible person. She really isn't. There are lots of great things about her. And for reasons I'm really struggling to clearly understand, I don't want to loose 'us'. However.... Last night's discussion left me confused. We talked through some recent issues. That was good. We explained some of our recent actions. Also good. But what's gnawing at me is the feeling I am attempting to paint over a wall that is crumbling. She's never going to hold my hand, rub my back, kiss my lips, call me to say hello, meet me at the door, run away with me for an adult weekend, laugh easily, smile frequently. She's NEVER done these things. Why would she start now??? And I'm never going to be whatever it is that she thinks she wants in a man. She said that I sprinted to a lawyer (somewhat true but after what she said to me I figured I'd sure better do SOMETHING). She said I immediately laid out spreadsheets and calculations for asset distribution (again, true. I handle things. It's my job). She said my actions over the last several weeks indicated I wanted out, not reconciliation (well, she wasn't talking to me and told me clearly to get my own place). She said that not once did I take a day off from work to talk with her (well, i tried several times to have dialogue and I was completely ignored). And she's on to something. We have been 'here' before and it used to scare me. Now it doesn't. I've become numb to it and, honestly, I kinda like the idea of being free. THAT is scary because I know I will regret lots of things. Why are we (mostly me) trying to save this? A little admission: the other night I went to dinner with a guy who wanted to thank me for my business. Went to a lovely place. I rarely drink, but Thursday night I did. Around 10, the restaurant was very quiet and he knew some people. We talked as a group. There was a woman there. Attractive. She and I talked. She was warm, silly, fun. Nothing happened but boy was it nice to just talk to and stand close to a woman like that. My wife just is not that way, at all. No replies necessary. I'm just typing cause thinking is hurting a lot lately.
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Thanks SD and Beec! There's no way she'll 'wake and smell the coffee'. She's waaaaaay too stubborn for that. No how. No way. Boy I'd love that cause there's a lot about her that I DO like, but there are some things that just are unacceptable. Plus, well, let's not forget: she is kinda, somewhat, sorta throwing ME out. So, it's not like I really have an option to stay. Going to see another lawyer in an hour (get a second opinion). She told me yesterday that she did talk to our oldest son (16) and told him that "Mom and Dad are having real problems and that it doesn't look good." Wow. Thanks for letting me be part of that discussion. I don't think my younger two have been clued in yet. There are two huge dips on the roller coaster ride ahead - 1) telling the kids and 2) moving out. After that, it's actually not that hard for me to imagine the future. Anyone out here willing to help a guy with some interior decorating? The last room I decorated was a dorm room - and that look probably won't work for me anymore. Soon
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Well. I feel like I'm watching a movie but it's really happening to me. Roller coaster ride ahead! Today started off with a massive fight which morphed into a fairly productive discussion. She threw stuff - I threw it back (thanks Beec!). We talked finances...living arrangements.. I can't believe it's happening. But I'm starting to get my head around the fact that I've given her 19 years of a darn good life, 3 great kids, no real worries, and complete freedom to be who she wants to be - but she's not happy. And she blames me. I've busted my butt and built a lovely life for us. She has worked hard too - very hard. But still, she's not happy. And still, she blames me. Well, Super Dave, I'm with you pal. She wants out. She's got it. I called today about a really nice little house for rent down the street from where we live. The kids could walk up to see Dad - hopefully they will . Stay tuned. And thanks everyone. You have been really helpful.
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Well, I had a talk with her a few days ago. Basically trying to see where we are. Didn't go extremely well but at least I told her that I don't want it to continue as is and that for us to consider any future we both needed to seek outside help. THAT went over like a lead balloon. She just doesn't think that someone from the outside could possibly help and, further, she doesn't see that she needs any help - I do. Not her. At which point I told her that I had been thinking a long time about her point of view on many things. I told her that, in my opinion, she is suffering too much but it's not because of me (at least not only). I told her I think she needs help to find happiness with or without me and that she should consider if she may have something like "OCPD". THAT went over extremely poorly. As I knew it would. She's been not talking to me since before Christmas. Basically ignoring me. I'll be talking to the kids and she'll talk over me. Today, I asked the kids if they wanted to head out and my daughter said "Mom won't come cause she hates you". Niiiiicccce. At dinner, wifey didn't set a place for me, just for the kids. Niiiiccceeeee. So, I set my own place and said "Huh. Will you look at this kids..someone forgot to set my place. No prob, I got it" I called today about a really nice house that is for rent literally up the street from where we currently live. I can afford it and it would allow the kids to walk up to see me. We live in a suburb, but kind of in the middle of town, so it's not like I'm too close. Trust me, I have no desire to watch wifey. I just love the fact that the kids could easily stroll up to see Dad. I'm planning tomorrow to have another talk w/ wifey. This is nuts. She's being so mean and vindictive and I don't know why. Heck, I didn't DO anything! She's the one who should be apologizing. Oh right! She has never apologized for anything. Ever. So tomorrow I'll see if we can have a real talk about divorce. Last time we tried she started getting mad (then slightly scared and teary) because she was concerned she wouldn't get credit. All our credit has been in my name for 19 years. Well, you know what: tough. Actually she'll be fine cause she'll be getting a huge amount of money in the settlement and a nice alimony check. Dear readers: she'll never have to work. She's 44. I'll let you know how it goes. I'm tired. This is tiring.
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Went to a lawyer the other day. Felt good, in a weird way. She's been completely not talking to me and has been very rude. I brought home a small bunch of daffodils the other day. Not even a thank you - but at least my daughter is enjoying them! Divorce ain't gonna be cheap, that's for sure. The lawyer was pretty cool. Gave me a ballpark estimate of what alimony/child support would be and how we'd have to divide our assets. The asset division is acceptable to me; it's the alimony. Yikes. As the lawyer said: "and it's forever". Well, noone ever said freedom was free.
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We just went to the mall with the kids (to return the fox fur collared coat I bought her for Christmas. She never said she didn't want it, never told me she planned to return it. But as we piled into the car, she had it along with the gift receipt she'd retrieved from my desk drawer). She was in a miserable mood. She looked tired. So do I. The tension in the air was palpable. We went to a cash register, the girl behind the counter didn't speak english very well. I KNOW what my wife wanted - she wanted ME to handle the return because my wife was already beginning to come unglued. Returning an item does this to her. She doesn't want any issues - and aren't there always issues with this transaction? It doesn't scan properly or the girl doesn't speak english well, or the ticket is missing. And for my wife, this is somehow a personal affront. On the one hand she wants me to handle this type of scenario because she feels that she will somehow be taken advantage of. And yet, she won't relinquish control and just give me the item/receipt, say "can you please do this for me?", and walk away. Partly she hates that I can easily handle these things with a smile (she hates that I talk to people and try to work the old "honey gets more flies than vinegar adage) partly she can't simply delegate for the fear it might somehow be handled incorrectly. So, the girl was confused by the gift receipt. My wife immediately began to escalate the situation. She said: "It's a GIFT receipt. Give me my money." The girl called over another woman for help with the transaction. This further upset my wife. The second woman was a bit scatter-brained (with all due respect) and wasn't listening to what we were saying. I took the situation over. Clearly and politely, I told the second woman what I was trying to do and how she could handle the gift receipt. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw my wife, standing 10 feet away. Glaring. GLARING with evil eyes at the woman behind the counter. Another employee walked by and my wife said "Are you a manager?". "No," he said. "We are having a REAL problem here," said my wife. When in actuality I now had the woman understanding what she needed to do and she was processing the transaction. My wife continued to GLARE at the woman. The woman, sensing this, said several times "I'm really sorry". My wife walked closer and breathed "I want ONE thing - to be OUT of this store NOW" And she walked away. I was shaking with anger at my wife and the woman behind the counter was shaking with fear/discomfort. Later, my oldest son (16) tried to help somewhat calm my wife down. She was very snippy at him. He came to me and said "what a ." I said: "HEY that's your mother! I will not have that language." He said "She's weird" I have seen this whole scene hundreds of times. I kid you not. She once called a man with no hair a "bald " because he told her, not rudely, the end of the checkout line formed behind him. Anyone want a somewhat used, 43 year old guy who needs a break?
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I'm in such a panic/rage/depression/emotional state... maybe writing will help. I'm literally shaking. Earlier in this thread, a wise forum member suggested my wife may suffer from OCPD (link removed. WOW. There is a lot that fits. It's not a perfect fit, but this is perhaps the first time in 20 years that I may understand why she is this way. She will NEVER consider that she may suffer from something; never from OCPD. Just now she blamed me for the fact that our roof is leaking. What?! I love her. I want her to be happy. I'm going to pick my moment and tell her I think she is suffering way too much. I'm going to tell her I want to be with her, but she (and we) need help. I NEED to tell her that I think she has a real issue. She (and we) must get help or I will give her what she wants - a divorce. No one else will tell her that she may be sick - she has no one else. She will not react well to my words. She will fly into a rage. She will say I'm the problem. She will say I'm making "my" problem into a problem with "her". But I have to say this. For her. I want to think it will begin to make us better. It won't. Marriage vows say "in sickness and in health". She is sick. Shouldn't I stay? If she had cancer, I would stay. How is this any different? An alcoholic or drug user is sick. I wouldn't stay with either. But both are sick and marriage is about helping each other. Is it acceptable to leave an alcoholic or drug user because those sicknesses are somewhat choices whereas no one chooses cancer? So it's ok to leave a marriage when someone chooses to be sick and not get better? But she didn't choose to be this way. Can she choose to get better? Maybe. But she won't choose to get better. So, it's acceptable that I leave?
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I guess both genders have their share of "issue laden people", huh? Let's hook your husband and my wife up... that'd be just service to the both of them?
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I've been quietly struggling emotionally for several days now. Wife isn't talking to me since before Xmas... very uncomfortable situation around the house and kids. I've read and reread this thread a hundred times. It helps and hurts at the same time. We just had a huge screaming match. Lots of hurtful things said by both. I feel bad but I also didn't start it. It's wrong to return an insult, but I did. Oh well. She says she has "check out". And that it's my fault That hurts. She has no friends, no relationships, no girlfriends, no 'loving' relationship with her family. If it weren't for my very loving family, she wouldn't really have any relationship with any people. And that's my fault? I've begged, pleaded, tried to take her places, to events, to freakin lunch. No dice. And I'm the bad guy? The common thread hasn't been weaved by me. I don't want a divorce. But i don't know why I don't want a divorce. Help.
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I don't think she's trying to get a reaction out of me - I believe it is the way she is. Her family has told me a story of how when she was a young girl (maybe 8 or 9) she threw a board game up in the air because she wasn't winning. Emotional Needs? Hm. I've TRIED to do what I THINK a woman might like: I've begged her to go to dinner with just me (her response: "I don't 'do' dinner"); I've begged her to meet me for a "corporate lunch" (her response: "I don't eat lunch"); Let's go away ("I don't want to leave the kids"); Let's go skiing ("Not for me"); Let's go swimming ("you just want me in a bikini" - uh YEA!); When i come home early and the kids aren't there we just work around the house cause there's always "so much that isn't done"; Let's go to the city for a night ("can't - the kids"); Would you like to try something different like, maybe, an Opera or Concert ("can't - kids and I don't want to); How about we go "you" shopping. Pick out whatever you want ("I don't do that, I don't wear special clothes, you are trying to make me the wife I'm not") When we 'talk' it invariably seems to come around to how I think I'm so great and how she thinks I'm not and I'm not that successful and I don't do enough around the house and, and, and. How about we talk about our dreams? Never! How about we talk about world events - nope. Ya know what... I'm tired of trying.
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I have to admit, I didn't initially absorb belinda's comment "You say how lovely you are and what great money you make! Woo Hoo! Big Deal! You're obviously not good at keeping your woman happy!!". Until now. I have no responsibility to "keep my woman happy". It's her job to find her own happiness and hopefully we can find it together.
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Would she qualify for a mortgage since she'd have my alimony/child support payments coming her way? I guess she could also take the cash I'd be giving her and pay off the mortgage. Then she'd have no monthly payment although she wouldn't have much, if any, cash for emergencies. At least not initially. Over time she could build up a savings.
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Thanks. Sounds like reasonable advice. I'll call to set an appointment with a lawyer on Tuesday. Strange because it was exactly 1 year ago that we were in exactly the same spot but somehow we backed away from it. And here we are again. Approximately 25% of our net worth is invested in my business. It's not 'my company' (I don't own it per se). But I (we?) own equity in the company (it's a growing company) and you cannot get it out. Period. Approximately 25% is in cash, 25% in home equity, 25% in cars, IRA's and personal items. So, I'd like to give her most of the cash, the home equity, 2 of the 3 cars, and most of the personal items. That's about 1/2. There's no way to get the investment out of the company so i'll keep that, a little cash, the IRA's and a few personal items. We may be able to work it that way, i dunno. I make a decent pay so I'll be fine paying alimony/child support. Not sure where I'll live... I'll rent for a while. No rush to buy. Any idea how the house works? If she gets it (which I'm mostly fine with), then I want OFF the deed. I guess she'd have to get a mortgage? How would she qualify as she has no job? Will the court 'force' her to return to work? It would sure be nice if my alimony could be reduced by her getting a job. She is 100% able-bodied and still has a valid nursing license (every year she's renewed it) and she did work for about 2-3 months in 2002/2003 because she wanted to get out of the house.
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Strange thing: my wife has said (often and loudly) that our wedding day was a sad day for her. Claimed she didn't really want to get married but that I was the best route out. Ouch. Some of that is just her being mean, some of that is her being truthful. Question: people say 'protect yourself financially'. What does that mean?? How do you do that? We have a lot of money in a liquid account and she could, with a check, drain it all. If I made a preemptive move and took 1/2 and set it aside, she'd go absolutely ballistic and she'd definitely start WWIII. I'd much rather do this amicably (I don't want the stress, I don't want the butter knives, I don't want to pay thousands to lawyers). But she is so vindictive that I know she'd go postal if I just moved the money. Thoughts???
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I have to agree with the advice so far. My opinion: don't go back. You are lonely. You are sad. But, while it would be comforting (maybe) to be with someone familiar - especially when you are sad and alone - you are going back for the wrong reasons. You seem to be going back because you have to, not because you want to.
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LOLOLOL Thanks Baby! I've done a little research on mediation and hope maybe we will try it. We haven't completely decided for the Big D... it ain't easy with so much on the line, but the more I think about this and really, really watch how I'm being treated, the more I think: F it. I want to smile, not frown for the second half of my life. I'll keep you posted! The financial piece is bewildering
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43, married 19 years, 3 kids. I work, wife hasn't worked much (outside the home) for at least 14 years, although she still maintains a valid nursing license and did work a couple of months a couple of years ago. We have a decent net-worth (home equity, cars, cash, investments, etc). Any broad expectations as to how much a divorce is going to cost me? What percentage of the net-worth? How is alimony / child support calculated? Will she have a 'right' to future earning increases or investment proceeds? Thanks
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I believe she is depressed but she'd NEVER admit such. Over the years I've tried nicely to get her 'back in line'... it doesn't work. I believe, to some degree, I have 'allowed' this to continue. I do have some responsibility. If years ago, I had said "Whooooa there filly" maybe she'd be different. I'm not a screamer/shouter. Maybe that's what she needed/needs. But I'm not going to be that way to put my supposed 'soul-mate' back in line. I wanted/want a relationship based on reason, intelligence, mutual respect and desire. Now if i were getting a whole bunch in return (say love, attention, understanding, no-holds-barred-sex) well, then maybe (MAYBE) the bargain would be worth it. But, at the end of the day, other than take care of the kids - WHICH I KNOW IS AN AMAZING JOB but really doesn't add much to our relationship - other than the kids, she does an amazing job doing everything around the house. Which is 100% her choice. But we could easily afford to hire people to do a lot of what she does. In fact, and this is harsh, but I've thought that I could hire a maid and groundkeeper and get the same thing. I wanted a wife/lover/friend, not TrueGreen Lawn Care. SuperDave - i hate when you make sense. Cause I hate the answer it leads to. But, i must admit, i'm slowly (after a long time) realizing it's the only answer.
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It's eerie. For years I've struggled to understand why she is the way she is. And in 2 days on this forum, I've received some really interesting (and probably accurate) explanations. It really helps me to understand why. I think the obsessive compulsive personality disorder that was mentioned earlier realllllly offers some insight into my wife. Over the past couple of days it seems more and more like an interesting possibility. Last night, we talked. She continued to say that I need to change (and that she's really lost any hope or desire for me to change). When I asked for an example she gave the following: a couple of weeks ago after I came home from work she told me that while she was out and about earlier in the day, she claimed that an ambulance nearly ran her off the road. She said the driver was reckless and nearly caused an accident. As she told the story, I listened and expressed my amazement and concern for her safety "wow!... you've got to be kidding me!! No way!" etc. Now to paint a clear picture, she has leaned on the horn or screamed at me for what she has discerned to be bad driving by other people. I'm on the road a LOT. Hundreds of miles a week. (have never had an accident in almost 30 years). She drives maybe a hundred a month. I see a whole lot more than she does. With a 100% honest attempt at objectivity - in most cases, what she viewed as bad driving by others simply wasn't (IMHO). So, as I listened to the story, yes, I clearly was thinking "it probably wasn't as bad as she is saying"... But I did NOT say that. I thought it. I wanted to say it, but that would be insensitive which I'm not. I'm trying to be funny here. Well, she told me last night that my reaction was exactly the WRONG reaction. She expected me to immediately pick up the phone, call the police and report the driver, demand action. Call the ambulance company. Demand that the driver be reprimanded, etc. So, friends... you make the call. Which reaction to the story would have made most sense? Inquiring mind wants to know.
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I'd never before subscribed to a forum. Ever. So opening up here was realllly scary. You guys are amazing. THANK YOU so much for listening to this big lost soul. Your help has helped! I may even sleep tonight (still in the spare bedroom, but at least I'll sleep vs stare at the ceiling). Wife and I just had a bit of a conversation (she's been ignoring me for days now). She wants more conversation from me. Says I don't talk to her... old news. Been hearing that for years. Conversation is 2 way. In 20 years, she's never ever EVER called me at work or on my cell to 'just say hi'. Ever. I call her nearly everyday and often a couple of times just to say 'hey'. I'm defending myself. I'll stop. At this point she still wants me to be different and won't even discuss or consider that she too may need to be different. I have no problem with unilateral attempts on my part. Even if it doesn't work, it won't kill me to be more conversational. I don't need to have a -for-tat exchange of 'I'll do this if you'll do that' But we've been 'here' before. I'm the problem. For 20 years, I'm the problem. I don't converse. I try. Things get better, maybe. But she never commits to trying. Just now we were fighting....errr discussing... and she said "you want me to be different...to work in a job". No, No I don't. I love coming home to you here and the lovely home you make. I really do. But I said, what I do want is, for example: for you and me to go to a quiet B&B once in a while. We have the money. Just us. Take a book. We'll find a place with a quiet corner fireplace and we can just be alone. I'm not asking for sex (but I'm not not asking either, mind you). I'd like that change. Her response: we've never done that. We had the opportunity years ago, but we never did. True. And years ago, before we were even married, we bought a house (her desire), she was working, i was working 2 jobs AND going to grad school AND building a career and then we had 3 kids within 4 years. Uh we didn't HAVE the money, the time, etc. Fine, we didn't do it then. SO WHAT?! Let's do it NOW. I think I'm going to make a GD reservation and make her get in the GD car and I'm taking her. Again, at this point the conversation is going where it always goes: I need to change. I'll try but I won't try for ever. If there isn't some progress in 'us' I'm outta here.
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Thanks Kellbell. Thanks SuperDave. Kellbell - some very interesting reading. I'd say she clearly has 5 of the 8 on link removed ... not a huge ringing diagnosis, but pretty strong. SuperDave - a little tough love is much appreciated. While maybe I've over-stated some things, a comment that her brother made to me a year or two ago really hits home. He said: "She never has your back. Other wives will back their husband, even when they do something stupid, wrong, or just silly. She doesn't. She'll call you on it, even in front of people. That's harsh." That's her brother commenting on his sister (my wife). LOL..the way YOU lay it out SD, I'm sure not seeing the forest for the trees, huh?!
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Next steps?!?! That's easy: breathe in...breathe out...in...out. That's about all I can handle right now. Kidding. Kinda. Sorta. She really doesn't care if I see a therapist b/c I don't think she believes any good will come of it. Ellie: maybe my armchair psychoanalysis of her IS getting in my way of seeing her clearly. Maybe b/c I just can't understand someone who does NOT want friends, does NOT want to have fun, does NOT trust people... I just can't understand that maybe that IS what she wants to be. So I reach too deep for an explanation that I can understand. She has said many times that she just wants to be alone. Over the years we'd have had conversations and I'd kid her about when I'm gone she'll trade me in on a couple of 20 year olds. Her response: no. She won't get married again. She never flirts with me (or any man). She had other boyfriends when younger but never really seems to 'desire' men. I've many times thought if she DID have a lover then at least I'd understand her lack of any sexual drive with me. She told me today that I'm just not 'strong enough' for her. What she means is she views me as weak, timid, not forceful, not "manly". And in her own words she, herself, has 'too much testosterone' . She is very physical (works very hard around the house) and is always ready for a fight with someone, ANYONE whom she perceives as having wronged her. She'll lay hard and long on the car-horn when the driver in front of her allows another car to enter 'out of turn'. She'll lean accross and lay on the horn when I'm driving to teach somebody else a lesson. Then gets furious at me because I allowed that driver to turn in front of us. She is very very very much a 'by the rules' person and gets very angry when someone breaks the rules and/or causes her an issue. Me? I'm the opposite. WAAAAAY too (?) easy going. I'm NOT a pathetic soul who gets walked all over. But I do NOT stress a LOT of things that drive her nuts. She wants a man who DOES get worked up over things. She wants a man who will cut off his nose for her. She thinks I'm sooo focused on work that I would choose work over her. That I HAVE chosen work over her. While there may be some truth to some of that, she's been THIS way forever. And really, I don't think she DOES want a man. As she's said, she wants to be alone. I really like the idea of x visits to a couple's therapist then, no results: divorce. I just don't think she'll go for it. As she says "your the weak one, you aren't what I need or want, I've learned that I don't need you, I just want to be alone" So, given that why would she go to a therapist?!
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Tough night last night... I've been sleeping in the spare bedroom for the past week (not allowed in my own bed - wow). I think the "double-bind" is a fairly accurate assessment. There's NO question that she does most of the day-in-day-out work around the house and she's said she wishes I was more aware of what needs to be done and that I'd DO without being ASKED. I'd rather (and she knows this and hates it) see her enjoy a gardening club or volunteer, or go to a day spa from time to time. Instead she works sooooo hard around the house. Ladies - she's amazing with a wheelbarrow and will work most men into the ground. I'm not kidding. Me? Yea, I like that stuff to a degree. I have a desk job so getting dirty and sweaty is a great stress relief. BUT, c'mon. ALL THE TIME?!?!?! After a while this conversation just loops back on itself. I think the biggest, single issue is that she will NOT see a therapist. Honestly: I think she's afraid of what might be discovered. I believe her self-esteem is so low that she would rather be alone, miserable, and sad rather than deal with whatever she has to deal with. Maybe it's time to take a stand. I love her. I want her. But i don't want it this way (nor does she). I'll get help - but so must we. Or I'm out - as per her wishes