Soon_tobex

Ellie: I do appreciate other views, so thanks! My job comes in waves. For the past 6 months I've been home for dinner almost every night. For the 2 years prior, I was home for dinner 3 to 4 nights each work week (and home every weekend). For the 3 years before that.. home most every night. I don't play golf. I work around the house on the weekends. I DO agree that even when I'm home, I'm not always "connected" with her. I am guilty of that. I dunno... loooong before now she never would go out with me. "kids are too little, I don't trust your mother or mine to watch them... etc etc" Keep talking to me...but now... I'm off to bed. Thanks new friends

Awdree first, then belinda. Awdree: when she has said "you need help"... I've gone. When the therapist said, this really only works when both people are here. She says "i'm not the one with the problems, you are." When I ask her what can I do, she never gives me clear answers (women!). But at times it's been: "be more aware of what needs to be done around the house... don't make me always have to ask you to do things" Other times it's "you should know, I'm not going to tell you". Or "I'm so lonely" - which I think is actually close to the truth. When I tell her what I want and feel - it's all dismissed. "It's all about you" Belinda: I really like your harsh 'shake me to wake me' approach. I do value what she does - immensely. I've told her such and tell other people often. It is absolutely legitimate and was 100% her choice. What I meant was best described in an example: I was talking on the phone with a company colleague. A guy I've known and trusted for a long long time. We were discussing our financial results. Fairly complex stuff. At one point, and it was late, I was tired and we'd been talking a while and I said "John, I really don't know WHERE we got that number from". Later my wife berated me saying I should never admit such and that I'd never hear my boss say such a thing. etc etc etc. My reaction was ?! I thought (did NOT SAY) You wouldn't know an asset from a liability and you heard 1/2 the conversation and by the way the boss says those things to me from time to time. Multiply that type of comment from her in those business settings a thousand times over. THAT's what I meant by my 'no clue' comment. Another example - we took the car for an oil change. The guy said it'll take 30-45 mins. She was spooling up for a big outburst because after 30 mins the car wasn't done - in fact they hadn't even started. She demanded I march over and that I demand action. NOW! I said (stupidly) you get more flies with sugar. And I went over and nicely asked if it would be done. We were out in 50 mins. She wants to hold the oil change guy to the 30 min statement... and expects him to jump because she wants him to. Am I making sense???? As to how do I get to know her when she won't even go on a date with me?

Awdree... I'm not sure I know. You say I do... DO I? I don't think I've done anything lousy. I've done some stupid stuff here and there - a heck of a lot less than other husband. She's just not happy. Period. And she hates that I am a happy guy. She hates that I'm successful. Hates that I can be level headed and at ease with the knuckleheads in customer service. She's just a sad person. Her mom is too. And there's nothing that I can do to change that. Why she wants to leave? I don't really know. Maybe she's tired of me trying to make her happy. Tired of me trying to help her see the right (my?!) way. Tired of me not getting all worked up over the things she get all worked up over. She wants me to get p/o at the customer service people. I don't. I won't. I get my way a different way. I stayed for 19 years because I love her. But she doesn't love me at least not in a normal way. And now I'm crying like a stupid baby...

LOL Awdreee!! I'm not your husband. And thanks for the "dude". It made me laugh and I haven't done a lot of that lately. I know. I know. My kids will be gone soon. I just don't want to lose them sooner than I'd have to. I love coming home to them. Helping them do homework. Eating dinner next to them. ALL of that changes with divorce. I like loading us all into the family truckster and going for pizza. The simple things that get destroyed by divorce - I know, my dad left. I was much older (college) so his leaving wasn't a horrible big deal and my mom ended up with a very decent guy and together they are doing well. Sigh. I know that when they are gone, without change my wife and I will be lost together. There are times when it's so good to just sit with her...but those times are fading. I used to enjoy when she'd put her feet in my lap and I'd rub them. Now she won't let me. Or I'd rub her back in bed... haven't been allowed to do that for many months. Strange - both you and Hope are both saying what the therapist said "don't see much hope". Sorry for the pun, Hope. I guess part of me feels that there's more I could do. I've made mistakes. Nothing huge. No girlfriends, no money matters. The guilt will eat me alive if I felt there was more that I could/should have done to be a better husband. This is going to really suck, isn't it...

Hope - to the point. I like that. Hurts. But I like it. WHY?!!?! Why is she done with this marriage? What have I done to be such a lousy guy that she needs to "move on"?! If I knew why (even if I didn't want to know why or like the reason or believe it) at least i could understand it. Understanding is really important for me. Especially right now. Help me understand why I spend 19 years with her. Begged to hold her hand - to no avail. Longed to take her for a weekend to a B&B alone just to sit by the fire and read with her - never. Why does she blame me?! Is it easier to blame me than for her to deal with her own unhappiness?

Awdree - her good points: 1) She can be very thoughtful. In a very low keyed way. Example: I like oatmeal. Ok this is weird - i really like oatmeal. And she has purchased like 20 boxes for me. I'm never out cause she knows I like it. And I like that about her. Another example: I have a long commute to work. I drink coffee in the car. My old mug spilled on my shirt the other week. She bought me a nice new one to replace it. It was so small and thoughtful. 2) She pushes me (in a good way). She's got unbelievable energy - I think she never stops moving so that she'll never start thinking about stuff. And her energy energizes me. I'll get up and help. Building things. Fix things. Make our house a truly lovely place. People stop and say "wow...this place was a dump and you guys have made it gorgeous". I like that. A lot. It's a hobby for us and we enjoy sharing it together. It CAN get waaaaaay out of whack - for example I really don't want to do it ALL THE TIME. But she has no other hobbies. None. 3) She's got a nice butt. Not that I ever get to see it. Sigh. But it's great in jeans. Hey, I'm a guy... at least i put this good attribute 3rd on the list and not 1st. But she does have a.. ok, I'll move on. 4) She a great mom and that has allowed me to become a great provider. I spend a lot of time w/ my kids. I really do. But without her being so great with them, there's no way I'd have been able to accomplish what i've accomplished - as meager as it is in comparison to bill gates. 5) She like to take rides and walk - which I love. And...that's it. Wow. Why DID I get married? LOL Oh, right see 3) above. She's not warm, soft, loving, sexual, sensual, silly. She rarely laughs, has never told a joke. I know I'm not responsible for her happiness. But why does she say that I'm responsible for her UNhappiness?!?!?! That is so unfair and hurtful. How can a person with whom you've created such wonderful kids be so hurtful?

The 'strange' (I was going to say funny, but it ain't) part is that she says SHE wants the divorce - because I'm the problem. I've hurt her. I'm the problem, etc. etc. I don't really, really think she's going to hire a lawyer - but she might. I overheard her talking to a distant family member who had gotten divorced a while ago. I thought it was so inappropriate: Xmas Eve and she's asking this other woman (who's husband was a drunk, drug dependent, non-provider - a complete opposite of me) how she knew she was "ready to move on". I'm like: are you KIDDING me?! You have a lovely home, great kids, a husband who would kiss you until the cows come home (if you let him) and you are "ready to move on"??? Maybe it doesn't matter. If she files, fine. I'm not going to fight for her. I'm tired of it. If she doesn't file... i dunno if i have the guts. She'll say "see, I KNEW you would leave me... I've said all along you'd do what your father did and leave" blah blah blah. My dad cheated on and left my mom. I have not and never would do that. Have sure thought about it over the years... but wouldn't! She does NOT respond to threats well. She returns fire with LOTS of fire. She has a horrible temper and cannot have a conversation. I've seen her verbally assault people in the checkout line without big enough reason. And she won't see a therapist. Never happen. I'd bet my life. She has an irrational abhorrence of Dr's in general. I'm not perfect, not even close. But i've never cheated. I really would like a sweet, caring woman, mind you. But i want that woman to be her. When I'm with her I feel so inadequate because I don't know how to deal with her. She's great at making me feel like an idiot. It's funny (no wait strange) - at work I'm the boss. At home, I'm bossed. Deep inside she wants to be controlled IMHO. She wants to be told what to do - that would relieve a lot of what she sees as the unbelievable daily pressure that is upon her. She's at once both angry and sad for her father. She feels that he made his mother unhappy (i disagree vehemently) and yet is sad that he didn't stand up, take the bull by the horns and say "straighten yourself out or I'm out". I've thought about all of this for years. The kids are old enough and I will survive. Maybe it's time for me to go get a divorce decree. Two things can happen: 1) i get divorced or 2) she straightens out and we live happily ever after. It's going to be 1) cause she just isn't smart enough or brave enough or confident enough to get help. So she'll shout from the highest mountain what a horrible man I am for leaving her. How right she was - see, he left. As she predicted. I don't really, really care about that cause I think people are shaking their heads behind my back to some degree. Asking: how does he DO it?! But I don't really care because I know I've done what is reasonable. And she won't even consider seeking marriage therapy. I've said: "I'll sit in the office, wont' say a word, you tell your story" No dice. The only thing that scares me is will she turn the kids on me. She can be manipulating but the kids are pretty centered. She's not a monster but she is tough. I hope the kids don't think I abandoned them.

Awdree - some of what you say makes sense. She's never been truly happy - at least not for extended stretches. I'm a glass 1/2 full guy.. she's 9/10 empty. Her mom is exactly the same way. She's miserable. MY wife blames my mom-in-law's outlook on my father-in-law. Which is very very hard to believe. The poor SOB has been tied to this so sad person for so long - and he's a very fun guy. IMHO. But my wife thinks that she and her mom bear NO resemblance. I'm like: are you KIDDING me?! You are twins! But i believe my wife blames her dad for her mom's unhappiness just like my wife blames ME for her unhappiness. It's so twisted. I really reallly really want to stay with my wife - but for the life of me I don't know why. I know I could be so much happier even alone, much less with a loving woman. My wife has said many times that she raised her brothers. Her mom never did anything and my wife 'lost' her childhood because her mom forced the younger siblings upon her. Some of that may be true. My wife takes enormous pride in our own kids. And my wife is waaaaaaaay too over-protective. She is, trust me. So, in a weird way, you could argue that my wife still has major responsibilities. And she has said on a thousand occasions that I don't help, that I don't pay attention, that I don't think of things, that she is always required to think of everything, that all the responsibility is hers and that I don't ever help. The truth (my view) is I do more than the average guy and that my wife has such a ridiculously high expectation level of what should be done in life, of what level of performance we all should live to - that there is NO WAY I, or any man (or woman) could meet that level. I can't TELL you how p/o she gets when, say, the customer service rep from some company can't answer a question quickly enough. She'll take their head off even though, c'mon, in general those call centers are notorious for bad service. Everything she does is with such perfection and attention. And if you don't do it the same way - look out! I don't even know why I'm writing this. I just want a woman who will say "OK let's get an ice cream - just the two of us. The kids are fine alone - c'mon the oldest is 16 - and we can walk to the ice cream store." Why? If i can understand it, maybe I can fix it??? Could your husband fix you??

Hey Awdree - WOMAN!!! Kids are 16, 14, 12. Why do you want out? What do you want? What aren't you getting that you want to get? Explain yourself to ME and maybe I can understand her! Baby Carrot: the more i think about this, the more i believe i need out. I dunno... WHY is she this way???? Awdree?

What AM I going to do! That's what you all are supposed to help me with! Therapy?! Pulease. I've been (alone) to 4 different people over the last 19 years. She won't go - because I'm the problem, not her. Last therapist I went to, after about 3 visits, told me "I don't have much hope for your marriage". Okkkkkkkay - thanks for that. Will you LOOK at that, my time is up! I would much rather not be divorced (my parents are divorced and it sucks, but I lived) but I really think there might be better out there. She won't even consider therapy - and that makes me wonder why I even care.

Everyone thanks sooo much. I feel like I'm being eaten from the inside it hurts so much. Rubiez: some of what you said sounds as if SHE said it! And there's some truth, maybe. She'll say I put my work before her and the kids. But she's been saying that forever and it's really not true. I work and travel only as much as the next successful guy. She just has NO clue of what the real world is - cause she doesn't live in the real world. But I've done so much over the years for her. And it backfires. Examples: I've brought home flowers - and she says: don't buy me flowers, it's a waste of money. I bought her a beautiful diamond ring - she literally made me bring it back ("I don't wear rings"). I bought her lingerie once (ONCE!) and she said it was gross - it wasn't. I try to offer opinions on couches, or drapes or whatever. But, c'mon, I'm a freakin guy too. I'm sincere but to a point. I don't hang around and watch football, drink beer, whatever. "Fun" to her is literally doing hard work around the house. And I do enjoy that as well. We like gardening and major renovations. BUT (BIG BUT), there's a point I'd like to take a bubble bath with my wife - and that has never happened. She's more of a mom because that's all she will let herself be. It's hard to listen (and I'm not excusing any of my actions) but it's hard when you get yelled at for not correctly moving a coffee table. Long story but true. Keep talkin to me, I need it!

43, male, married 19 years. 3 WONDERFUL kids. My wife has said she wants a divorce - and I think she means it. She has said this many, many times before, but I think this time she's mustered the courage and resolve to act upon it. For 19 years I've been the breadwinner. I make very good money, we have a very nice home, and no financial worries. She doesn't work outside the home and hasn't for a long time. In fact she never really did work much even before the kids. She stays home (her choice) and does an amazing job around the house. She does everything - painting, mowing, you name it. I work a bunch - but NOT over the top. From the beginning, when I'm very honest with myself, there have been 'issues'. She hasn't kissed me in many, many years. Hasn't hugged me. Won't say goodbye or hello when I come and go. Not that she's been a monster (although she has been that - read further). We have had good times but loads of lousy times. Sex is almost unknown. I'm in good shape (and she is too - I think she's hot) but she's very very conservative. Has never initiated sex. Ever. I've gotten so tired of trying I've stopped trying. She has never worked in a corporate environment, but will often tell me what to do when I try to tell her about my day. Says I'm weak, or not doing the right things at work - when in fact I'm very near the top of a successful and large company. She criticizes me constantly. From how I drive, to how I leave a voice message, to how I don't think my day through. She complains that I don't do anything around the house - but I do more (and I'm not bragging) than ANY other guy I know. I don't care what other guys do, I do more - and I have an important job. She's never happy. Rarely smiles and surely rarely laughs. She's a great mom. Loves the kids a ton. She's told me on many occasions over the years that she didn't love me and doesn't love me. Told me I was a good way to get out of what she viewed as a bad home. No abuse or anything but it wasn't a happy house. I want so much more. I want a wife who can smile and laugh. Who can hug me and kiss me. And who enjoys sex. Who respects me and supports me. But, I made a vow, and I don't take that lightly. Then there's the kids. We both love them so much and they are amazing. Smart, polite, mature. But they know that mom and dad have issues - you'd have to be blind to miss it. She's thrown many things over the years (pots, a computer, knick-knacks). Has never apologized about anything. Ever. We haven't been out alone in 16 years - because she says she doesn't want to. She has no fun. Has no friends. Her motto: trust no one. Won't go on a real vacation. We socialize mostly with my family and she puts on a good front when they are around - and she can be very gracious. But we have no other friends to speak of. I've let her control the whole thing. So, here's what I need: someone tell me WHY is she this way? And WHY am I so stupid to deal with this?