Whirling D

It wouldn’t be at all surprising if it’s your medication that is causing a lot of those ups and downs and fatigue. Common side effects, unfortunately.

You and I are a lot alike in that way, Sindy.

No one is making you do anything. You are allowing him, almost encouraging him, to continue the behavior and exert control over you. Is that really how you want to live your life? It sounds like he has mental health challenges, perhaps a personality disorder, since this kind of behavior is rampant with these kinds of disorders. Wouldn’t hurt to look up personality disorders, and attachment disorders. Perhaps you can learn a little bit more about what you are encountering, and what you are actually doing… Enmeshment with him is also a mental health challenge. You need to heal, and there is very little likelihood that he will go along on that ride. Sometimes, it’s a ride you have to do entirely on your own. Best of luck.

I have a hard time coming up with things that everybody else hasn’t eloquently said, but I will try to improvise a bit here… From my perspective, he is probably freaked out by a lot of your seemingly wanting to control him. You may not feel that this is what you are doing, because you have your own boundaries and your own expectations… But if you put yourself in his place, this is likely what he interprets happening… “She wants me to do something that I am not yet ready to do. I don’t yet feel we are stable enough to make this commitment, but I love her and I hope someday I can make that commitment… However, she wants it her way and on her timeline, and she basically told me it was over if I don’t comply with her demands. That makes me feel very anxious and insecure, because I feel anxious about the future. I don’t want to be controlled like that and to be told what to do, maybe even like I am a child, because she doesn’t like something I do, like watch porn. I have tried hard to make changes, and I see that she has too, but I’m just not ready to commit at this particular moment. I don’t feel emotionally safe yet. That’s really what it comes down to. I don’t yet feel emotionally safe to let her past my guard, because it hurt me when she threatened to leave, and I’m still feeling a huge amount of anxiety about that and our disagreements and arguments. If she would only give this some time and space, and allow me to work on my own indecision and problems without feeling pressured to do that on her timeline. I think that would make a world of difference“. Do you see where this is all going? Another example… You say that he doesn’t want you to touch him or hug him or have sex with him… He doesn’t feel emotionally safe, for all the reasons stated above. Not feeling emotionally safe can kick feelings of intimacy out to the curb in a nanosecond. if you truly love this guy, and it seems that you do, you will love him enough to back off, and give him the space to process what has happened over the last few months, much of it good, as you say, but some of it not so good… You will give him that space, and stop trying to control his actions. Let him be the captain of his own ship. That’s the most loving thing you could do. If it doesn’t meet your approval, then you know what to do. You can’t try to coerce someone into something that they are not ready to do. That is manipulation, and it’s a very bad way to begin a lifelong partnership.

You know, being on a forum like this can be addicting. It’s almost like a caffeine fix. At least it is/was for me. I still enjoy coming on here, fairly often and reading what happens with others, and I consider chiming in, but I just don’t have it in me to do that right now. Who knows, maybe in the future. I meant no disrespect by my initial posting yesterday. At least to those who were being respectful… 🙂 I figured you would know who you are and know that I wasn’t referring to you. But as Man just said, it just seemed to become fodder for some, and it became hurtful. As Crow adequately said, I sometimes felt that a lot of postings were cleverly-disguised condescension. Many of those responses had some reasonable points and good rationale, but were often said in an underhanded mean way (at least what I would consider mean). With my puny baby little healing soul, that’s hard to manage, and I was finding myself tremendously more triggered while I was on here than when I was not. Negativity, begets negativity, and I have a huge amount of negativity in my own heart that I’m trying to manage… let alone, having to manage negativity coming from the outside. Hence, the strategic change. I suspect there will come a time in the not too distant future where I will feel depressed and alone, and need a portal that I think works for what I will need at that time. I feel very vulnerable right about now, and I guess I am feeling that I’m handling things ok, so for now… mum’s the word… I enjoy many of you, and I have appreciated what you’ve brought to the table. Maybe I should be deleting these posts sooner… Because I seem to get about five or 10 pages in and that’s when the crap hits the fan and it starts getting out of control… 🙂 Maybe that’s the trick… 🙂 Yes, I do know that I can block people, but I do like to see what everyone says, despite the negativity. Most of the time, I will try to read between the lines and truly see if what is being said holds any water, and much of the time it does. So, I haven’t really wanted to block anybody… Plus, as you probably know by now, I will want to defend myself… and that in itself should be its own 12 step program… 🤣😂

Sorry you feel that way, rainbow. Please acknowledge that I said many of the respondents. Not all. I’m on here, because I find some of the other stories interesting, and because some of you expressed interest in what was happening. and, I never said it was unhelpful to be on here. Never used those words. That’s really all there is to it. no one has stopped people that are interested from private messaging.

well, I haven’t jumped off a bridge yet, thanks for asking… 🙂

Thanks, Bat… With all due respect, there are 101 opinions that come from people on here, and many of them without a tremendous amount of fact to back them up. not to mention the hours every day I spent on here writing, and for what purpose? I no longer can say. I am finding alternate sources for feedback and inspiration that I’m finding useful.

Yep. Really. Surprised?

Nope… Just have nothing to say.

Suuuuuuureee you dooo…. 😂🤣

Good luck with that… 😂🤣

Well Then… I suppose I should reply…. 😂 as you know, I can completely relate to what you are going through… So you might find that we are not quite as a different from each other as one might think… 😂🤣. I would be experiencing the exact same elation and anxiety. I’m sure no one will argue with that. My thought on this comes from a couple of things. First, I was watching a fantastic video recently, from an online psychologist that described early feelings as often being based almost entirely on fantasy. Often times, even as we get to know someone, we will try to reject things that we find out about this person that will potentially eclipse that fantasy, and will often reject those perceptions in favor of continuing the fantasy. I guess that’s not entirely new information for most of us, but it’s hard to grasp when it’s us that might be engaging in a bit of fantasy. Here’s why I am even saying that. I had a very similar experience from what you are describing when I was 36, and the girl was 24. I was completely smitten with her and thought she was just the bees knees. What I found out soon enough, when the fantasy bubble burst, is that girls that age are changing rapidly and the chance that a partnership with that kind of age gap, and that particular age gap, could succeed long-term faced all kinds of challenges… But at the foremost is the growth and likely evolution of the younger partner. I think this will be a little bit slippery for you, man. I don’t think that every relationship like this will be prone to those kinds of difficulties, but I guess it comes down to what your objective is. If you are thinking long-term, that’s where I think it could get complicated. This lady is going to go through all kinds of changes over the next 15 years, and who she will be even five years from now may not be anything like who she is now. I have no doubt you already know this. Whether that will be problematic, moving forward is really like trying to read the stars. Who knows where it could go. As for me, I couldn’t imagine the amount of changes that I went through from about her age through 40 years old. my tastes almost entirely changed. My preferences for almost everything entirely changed. Anyways… That’s my two cents worth. The conclusion to what I’m trying to say you can draw through inference… 😂🤣 Good luck, Mr. man…! We are rooting for you!

Completely. It’s hard for me to do that. I don’t have a lot of tools in my environment to be good at that, I don’t think. At this very moment, I’m watching a fantastic video from an online therapist, who is describing Limerence, and the difference between healthy, self-regulation, and healthy co-regulation. She’s brilliant, and it’s a very good source of inspiration and information.

So the last thing that will likely be on my mind before I talk to her in about an hour is… Should I calmly ask her what she has been thinking about regarding our conversation last night, and whether or not, she is OK with how it went and whether she feels somewhat resolved with how it ended? She asked me before we hung up how I was feeling, so that question is not foreign to either one of us. I mean, I’ve been kind of avoiding those difficult conversations for the last 10 days… And it all came out in one big geyser last night. How should I approach this call?

True, but as I said near the beginning of this thread, is that really the hill I wanna die on? Many people on here said that I should want to make somebody I care about happy, and should be willing to make small changes… Small ones… To make them more comfortable in what could be an uncomfortable environment. OK, I guess that’s true. I think I can do that. I suppose. So, religion is not a hill I want to die on. She will have to decide that for herself. If it’s a battle she wants to pick. Is my house a battle worth dying for? I’m not crazy about the insensitive comments she made. But I asked her what she thought. I guess I shouldn’t ask if I don’t want to hear the truth. It’s not an amazing place. But I like it. I have to learn not to put with somebody else thinks about something in a position that it’s gonna hurt my self-esteem. That’s not always easy and quick for me. Am I happy that she used words that said she wanted to call it quits last night? I’m not happy at all. It scared the *** out of me. I don’t wanna lose this lady. I adore her. She has told me many times that she grew up in a house that showed no emotional connection. No kissing. No, I love you… Nothing. I didn’t either. So, it’s not easy for either one of us to be good at doing those things. I see her trying. She told me she loved me last night before we hung up, despite how difficult that conversation was. Maybe I blew that conversation out of proportion? Well, when somebody with a straight face, tells you in a serious voice that they don’t think things are working out, that’s something to be serious about. It’s sent me into a tailspin. I’m still not really sure what to make of it, but it’s possible she was overreacting, just like I often do. I can’t say for any certainty, that is true, but this is what I think, to be true, and until she tells me otherwise, I’ll go with that.

OK, fair enough. But what is also fair is that I haven’t started these more recent themes. It was her that began to bring out topics like religion, my hair, my house, and our schedule. I was doing fairly well with how things were going, and I don’t think that I was sending her a lot of signals that brought on any of these themes. I would suggest that it might be her own avoidant attachment characteristics that may be part of that. I experienced those, as well, so I think I recognize some of that. I guess I had two choices. To ignore what she was saying, or to try to dig to get to bottom of where they were coming from. I’m not really sure what difference it makes. I am hopeful that if things go well on the phone tonight, and she still wants me to go to the beach house, that we will talk about it, a little bit more, and then I will try to let it go. I’d rather move forward than backward.

I do appreciate in value what you are saying. For the most part, my volume has been down much of the time, with the exception of the times that I have written about on here. Doesn’t mean I don’t have anxiety, and I don’t need validation, because I do. Many people would encourage conversations like the ones that we’ve had about all the different topics, because it gets things out in the open, and it lays the cards on the table. How do you get to know each other otherwise? and I’m not saying that my responses have been holy or righteous. I’m just describing what I think and what I feel. Holy or righteous is really a reflective response from those reading. I’m just telling you what I think. What I feel. What I believe. these are important to me, and I should honor them. If someone else wants to believe that they are self-righteous, shouldn’t feel the need to stop them, or change their minds. But I do. Because I believe in a lot of the things that I write in here. I believe many of the things I write about a reflection of a broken society, and many of these problems are a stained mirror that prevents us from really seeing what true connection can really be all about. The doctor lady and I have had streaks of connecting deeply, passionately, and with clarity. It’s gone off the rails over the last couple of weeks, I’m not entirely sure that my responses to her have been the source of that. Only she could tell you with certainty where her red flags are coming from. You guys can speculate all you want, but there’s no true way to know. I have my own theories, and often times I say them. That doesn’t mean they’re righteous, they are just my own observations and theories.

So, here is where I am at. Based on what you guys don’t know. Or do. Please understand… You guys only read what I write on here. That’s only one part of a much larger picture. The doctor lady is a very nice lady. I really like her a lot. Is our situation perfect? It is not. Do I do stupid things and say stupid things? For sure. She does have her quirks, as do I. Whether they will be the end of us, who yet knows. I don’t yet believe that she has been abusive in anyway. Was the hair conversation swift? I don’t think so. Was her saying she wouldn’t live in my house thoughtful? I don’t think so. Was her saying that she was OK with me not being religious on the second date, and then having a big conversation about it much later when she said she wasn’t sure how that made her feel moving forward… Was that problematic? Of course. Was my telling her that I think she needs to figure out whether I can fit into her life inappropriate, or manipulative, or abusive? If you say yes, I think you are micro analyzing more than I do. Probably wasn’t the brightest thing for me to say, as blue, and others have pointed out. Did it sent her over the edge a bit? Maybe. But you know, I laid my cards on the table for that discussion. It was up to her to deal with it. Maybe what I saw last night was her way of dealing with it. Was her telling me that she thought we weren’t gonna work out the right thing for her to do? I couldn’t tell you. Only she could tell you whether it was reactionary, or whether she really was feeling that at the moment… Maybe she was, maybe after a while she started to think about it, while we were talking and realize that maybe it was a little hasty. It probably was. She seemed to be OK with the end of the call last night. She pretended to give me a big digital hug, and I joked that in the video frame, it was like I got an elbow to the chops. She told me she loved me, I was feeling pretty dark, but I mumble get back. And that was it. What is the emoji response to my text grade? No. But that’s kind of what I’ve been learning to expect from her texts. She may have been thinking that everything was fine, and that she talk to me in an hour and a half or two hours. I won’t know that until I speak with her. Our talk last night was great until it went South, and she barely texts anymore. So texting from the beginning has been inconclusive. I would certainly not respond to somebody saying something like I did in the way that she has. But I’m not her. I would probably say something sweet back, and a few weeks ago, she probably would half. But things have changed. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad, or moving in the wrong direction. That information is still not clear She told me last night that she wasn’t yet sure if this would work out in the long run. That hurt, but I guess I can’t blame her with all the things we’ve talked about lately and all the red flags that have come up for her. I wouldn’t expect her to say anything differently if that’s how she felt. I guess she was just being honest. I have to deal with that Am I going to toss the relationship out because it isn’t perfect? Not yet. If I feel more evidence of controlling behavior, which I think there was some, feel free to disagree, or it gets otherwise worse, I’ll have to make that decision, then, based on what’s going on. I am supposed to talk with her tonight around dinner time, because she specifically asked me to call her before band practice. Like me, she does have elements of neediness, and I think it was important to her that her and I talked today because we wouldn’t be able to talk tonight, and maybe also to soothe the little bit of her anxiety that might be related to the car from last night. Only speculation. If she invites me to the beach house, I’ll go. I’ll do what I always do. Either on video calls, or in person. Arrive with a cheery heart, a smile on my face, and a warm hug if she accepts. That’s what I try to do each time. I will probably ask her on the phone tonight if she feels that there’s anything else that she wants to talk about, or ask, or say. She generally responds favorably when I am open to asking her how she feels about something. Maybe will talk about deep stuff, maybe not. Maybe she’ll say she’s fine and she just wants to let it go and move forward. If that’s what she says, I’ll try my best to do that. I don’t have a whole lot more to say

Weird undertones?

Ok, I see your points. Thankfully, I didn’t throw any marbles under her feet at all last night… For the most part, I think I was scrambling from the marbles that she through under my feet. maybe I’ll make one last ditch effort at validating why I said those things a week ago… I’m not a good one with analogies or anecdotes… But let’s say you have a friend that is constantly hitting below the belt… ie, talks smack about sensitive topics, like religion/hair/homestead/schedules… Eventually the recipient of those low blows is going to feel that they have had enough, they may strike back. That may be what I was doing… Is that passive aggressive? Maybe. For me, I thought I was just laying my cards on the table and telling her what I was experiencing.

Yeah, I thought about it for a bit and thought that if she really didn’t wanna hear that from me, she might not give me any kind of romantic gesture back, and maybe would have just said, “thank you” or something like that. I am always analyzing everything for validation. Likely because I expect things to go badly and to crash, like they always have she asked me to call her before Band practice today, which I’ll do later on this afternoon.

OK, I manned up… sent her the text. She saw it within seconds, and here’s what she responded with: 😘 Is that a reasonable response, or does that seem somewhat passive? Guess I was hoping for something a little bit more engaged than that.

I am kind of afraid to text her this. I figure if I give her some space, maybe that would be helpful? Maybe I’m giving myself space, too?

But me saying something like that to her, would be meant to give her a bit of a push, if that’s what she wants to do. That’s not what I want her to do, and I don’t believe that’s what she wants to do… But if, in fact, she does wanna do that, I’d rather she put me out of my misery. This. Also, you characterize it as a disservice that I called what she said to me last night at the beginning manipulative, although that’s exactly what most people said I was doing when I “dangled the carrot” in front of her, and offered her an opening to leave if that’s what she really wanted. I have never said to her that I have wanted her to leave, or that I wanted to leave. Ever. I have always been hugely clear with her about how I feel, even last night, and what I would like. If her interest in saying what she said last night came from frustration and hurt from the talks that we previously had, and maybe she even believed that I was trying to sneak out by saying those things, but one way or the other, for her to say that she thought we couldn’t find a way forward, if it was meant to coerce me into giving her more of something that she felt was lacking, that by definition is manipulation. There would be much better ways to get that across with me… “D, I’m really hurt that this played out the way that I did, since I was so looking forward to spending time on my vacation with you, and I thought that’s what we had planned. I’m also worried and maybe disillusion about the conversations we had last week and how it sounded like you were pushing me to make a decision that I’m not ready to make. I almost got the feeling you were trying to push me away, which is not what I want.” Do you see how that may have had a very different outcome? And you may be right, maybe what I was doing when I challenged her with the hair saga was me trying to manipulate her to get her to do what I felt was lacking, and with our scheduling last night. I couldn’t tell you.