Whirling D

Thanks, Kwathe… I appreciate your thoughts. I have been thinking almost all of those same things. I do have other things going on, and I’m not nearly as consumed with this as I have been in the past under similar circumstances. That spells progress. Or old age… 🙂 still, it will be a pretty big disappointment if I don’t hear back from this girl. It seemed so positive at the time, almost certain that her and I would probably talk again. There was such a familiarity about her that seemed almost a little uncanny. Yes, that is presumptuous on my part, but that’s how it felt to me. I suppose I still have a little bit of optimism that I’ll hear from her… Not everyone is as eager as I am to meet people. I hope she feels good that I texted her… She seemed to feel that way when I asked her for her number last night. She seemed kind of surprised… And it was a pleasant surprise, as if she wasn’t expecting anyone to be interested in her. It almost seems too bad that our culture seems to devalue when we are eager to meet people. As if desperation is some evil characteristic… Whereas, people are social creatures by nature, and it should be expected that we don’t want to be alone, especially when we are right at the threshold of old age, which I am. I don’t have a lot of years to spin off. If I see a potential for a nice new friend, I should probably feel that I will expect to feel anxious and eager about it. I don’t know why I would need to defend that. It seems that this eagerness is stomped out of us within this culture. We are often made to feel bad about it. As for the Facebook research… I do that a lot. When I see somebody that I like, I want to know as much about them as I can, so I can determine whether it’s a mistake to put my energy into it. I would’ve never thought we’d be almost exactly the same age, and I learne things about her that I may not have ever known. I guess that’s one of the advantages of the Internet, these days. I have never abused that privilege, and I do feel that it is pretty important that I don’t cross too many lines. One of the aforementioned things that was a red flag That was on her social media, it seemed that she was dating someone in 2016, and shortly thereafter, she made a public posting that was meant to devalue the fellow she was dating, who apparently wasn’t taking no for an answer and was using Facebook to continuously try to contact her. Not something I would ever do publicly if I were her… Seemed kind of odd. Thankfully, that’s not the way I roll. If this girl ghosts me, I won’t be looking back trying to convince her otherwise. I might text her in a week, just in case something was up, but maybe not. Haven’t decided yet

So… I was going to write a whole other thread about my experiences last night… but here goes… My band played at a small restaurant/tavern last night at their Halloween bash. It was loads of fun. There were a few ladies that came in that were interesting, but one in particular… She looked about my age, and I found her quite alluring. She spent time dancing right in front of us, and for at least a set and a half, she stood about 10 feet away singing the words to almost every song we played, while she was chatting with her friend, and fending off this regular who was hitting on her and her friend. It made me a little envious, but it seemed innocuous enough. So, after our first break, I didn’t have the nerve to go over and say hi, but during our second break, I saw an opportunity to go over and do some band promo stuff and say hi, and we started to chat. She seemed really nice. We talked about this and that for about 10 minutes, even though my band mates were nagging me through the PA system to get back to work… 🙂 Sadly, she said she was only visiting here for the past week from Wisconsin, but is thinking she will be moving to my area at some point in the not too distant future At the end of the break, I asked them if they were still going to be around in a half an hour when we were done, but they said they were going to leave soon… So, I did something that I have never ever done in my entire life. I asked this girl for her number. She seemed quite flattered that I asked her, and she complied, and I wrote her number in my phone… I was a bit wishy-washy, and asked her if she was sure it was OK, but she seemed happy that I asked. So, I went home quite happy with the step that I had taken, and quite confident that I would at some point be seeing this girl again. I actually couldn’t stop thinking about her, which is something that I haven’t done in about a year… I think I’ve kind of hidden in this kind of thing away, given how badly the last two have turned out. I can fall pretty fast, which is not a good thing. I went back-and-forth all day today as to whether I would text her today or wait for a few days and not seem too eager… I was going to ask that on here… But I read a lot of Quora Postings, and it went both ways. In the end, I get the feeling that if the girl likes you, it doesn’t matter when you text. So I texted her, a brief somewhat goofy but nice message. Told her I enjoyed meeting her and hoped we would get to know each other. That was four hours ago. Silence. There’s no way to know yet whether she’s ghosting, but I’ll tell you this, if a girl I liked texted me, or I even gave a girl that I kind of liked my number, I’d be watching my phone every 10 minutes to see if that person would text. But that’s me. I also know there is a possibility that she is traveling today back to Wisconsin, so who knows if she’s even seen it yet. Still, four hours is a long time to not have a text returned. I won’t be at all surprised, but of course extremely disappointed, if I never hear from this girl again. That’s not hugely unusual in my case. If I think of my online dating site record, that’s what I can pretty much expect. it has been a little strange over the last 24 hours since I’ve met this girl. I’ve been cast back into this feeling of anxiety, lower level of depression, and this sense of excitement that maybe something could be different this time. There is also some thing that happens a lot… People that have trauma histories, and I often wonder if I fall under that category, gets swept up quickly in these kinds of situations, and their heads just start to spin and come up with all kinds of strange thoughts either pro or con regarding a potential partner. Many times, people with trauma histories often find reasons to sabotage or avoid potential situations, and I found myself doing that not that long after I left the restaurant last night… I kept thinking to myself… “Well, she’s not exactly what I want”, and she’s not this or she’s not that…” but there is a difference between thinking these things and acting upon them, and I’m getting better at not acting upon them. At the risk of many of you thinking that this is stalking… With the little information I knew, I was able to find her Facebook page and look a little bit more about what she was all about… There were a few things on there that were a bit of red flags, and that sent me into a spin as well, but I’m trying to keep in mind that not everyone is going to think the same things I do and believe the same things I do. Anyway, so I wait… See what happens. Almost expect that I won’t hear from this girl, and it just reconfirms the same stupid stuff I’ve been talking about this entire thread. And so it goes.

Well… I often disagreed with my therapist and her characteristic of scientific concepts… I may have mentioned, but there have been many academic studies that have pretty much disproven that brain chemistry has a direct link to depression, and that SSRIs are all but useless in that regard, no better than placebo pills. University College of London, 2022 …Journal of Molecular Psychiatry, 2022. My therapist all but called me naive, and pretty much said that I was arguing with somebody with a PhD in psychology, and thought those theories were conspiracy theories. Had no interest in looking them up or to validate what I was trying to say. Many of you probably feel the same. If you don’t believe me look up these studies. There’s many of them. Could my lack of hope be cognitive dissonance? A little bit. I don’t think most of it is. Many of you think that I am resistant to change or to Hearing alternate opinions. I’ve spent most of my life listening to alternate opinions. It hasn’t gotten me far. Yes, I could change my hair, but even in the past when I had short hair, it wasn’t that different. I still couldn’t attract many women if my life depended on it. Almost zero. I think it is pretty much entirely how I look, and less so my mannerisms, but that factors in there as well. It’s in no way how nice I am, or how friendly I am. Might be that I’m not the life of the party. I guess I have to bring out the big gun story… About 15 years ago, I was on a major dating site. I would send out literally hundreds of emails over about a year and get virtually no responses. I suspected it was because how I looked, so I did an experiment. A rather diabolical one. I left my profile exactly as it was, and I always thought it was a very well written profile… And I went to a part of the dating site from a different city across the country to the men’s section and I copied a picture of just a regular looking guy… Not a guy that was particularly all American, just a regular looking computer programmer kind of guy… And I inserted his photo in place of mine. By the time I woke up in the morning, I had in the vicinity of 50 emails from women in my inbox. No less than 50. Some of them from women that I would have given my front teeth to be able to interact with. Still not convinced? I am. One of my friends lost his wife a few weeks ago, sadly, and he decided, same as I did after my marriage ended, that he would Jump back on the same dating site that I currently am on. He says he has nonstop women messaging him. He has already been on three dates from the dating site, and he has already slept with one woman that he has known for a while. It’s only been about a month. He’s relatively tall, and considerably more masculine looking than I am. Doesn’t have anything else over me, really. As far as I can tell anyway. The last two girls that I have dated over the last three years didn’t care i have long hair and I didn’t have any money. They were quite impressed that money doesn’t really mean a whole lot to me, and also that I had created my own small business, even though it’s barely keeping me afloat. Where I grew up, nobody had any money. That was pretty much the status quo. When I go up to visit where my parents still live, nobody up there really has any money either, and they pretty much live by simple means. I respect that and I value it. These recent ladies did, as well. Those parts of those relationships were great, but we were missing other elements. I just can’t seem to attract the kind of girls that I think would be right for me who also don’t really care that I have long hair or don’t have any money. That seems to almost be crossing social lines, in a sense. I’m somebody that kind of presents as blue-collar/working class, and attract as such, but has a white collar demeanor. I can’t seem to mix those two socially. As I mentioned… I don’t spend my day sitting around pouting and whining that I don’t have a girlfriend. This time around, I’ve kind of given up on it, and have been at least OK doing the things that give me enjoyment… But I still have a little twinkle of hope, as I have for my entire life, that something will come along, someday. Maybe. Hopefully. But maybe not. Who knows. I don’t.

Thank you everyone for chiming in… I have enjoyed hearing what everyone has to say. You’ve brought up interesting points, and I’m trying to hear them objectively. Sometimes, it feels Hard to be objective, particularly when you’ve heard the same old song and dance over and over again for most of your life. It leaves an impression that is hard to overcome. I don’t know how others respond to rejection, but I’ve heard it over and over in romantic situations as well as just people that don’t even know me, and maybe I’m too sensitive… And I need to grow thicker skin. But truthfully, it’s hard to refute hearing things from people over and over again and not thinking that it’s just because you are different than they are that you are being ostracized from the rest. I’ve had people being mean because I speak with a different accent than they do. I have been the subject of harassment because I look feminine. I went on an Internet date once when the lady walked out before we even sat down because, “she wanted a real man, not a boy“. There is something to be said about changing my look and style to reflect a more modern sensibility. I just don’t want to. I’d rather find people that are OK with people being and doing who they want to be. A couple of years ago, after my divorce, I had a good friend’s wife say to me… “Are you going to cut your hair and look for a better job before you start dating again?“ I was actually uncommonly offended, and answered with “why in the world would I do that? I want someone that can be thoughtful enough to let me be who I am, rather than to expect me to be something I’m not“. She was perplexed and said that few women are going to want someone with long hair who is barely employed. This was a friend saying this. It was hugely hurtful and discouraging. Multiple times over the years I’ve had people just say mean nasty things with absolutely no provocation. I remember once I was working as a host at a restaurant, and I walked into the kitchen, and the line cook started saying really nasty things, and said “I don’t like you, so stay away from me”. I hadn’t said boo to this fellow in the 6 months that I had been working there up until that point. So, for those of you that think that it is in my head that people who are different are separated from the crowd might want to think again until you are a part of that group that is ostracized. I have no shortage of topics that I can reasonably talk about, no deficit of conversational skills… I feel like I come across as quite friendly and genuine. But that doesn’t seem to be enough within the culture that I live. That’s pretty clear. My therapist calls it cognitive dissonance, and thinks that I convince myself to feel this way to avoid my own deficits. I think it’s baloney. Does it seem like I feel sorry for myself? I do. But, I don’t spend my days going boo-hoo. I spend my days trying to be happy, and doing the things that I need to do and the things that I enjoy doing, and when I go out, I do my best to be kind and considerate and be pleasant and happy towards others. that may be part of the reason that I am not even sure I care anymore to be partnered. I’d almost rather just use whatever years I have left to be happy on my own, than to have to constantly be putting up with this kind of bull*** from an angry mob mentality. Hundreds of dating emails sent over the years with virtually no return emails kind of speaks for itself. Yet, I still keep trying. I wrote the lady that lives in the adjacent neighborhood another note on the dating site, and after a week, no response. I have no real way of knowing whether she has seen the note, since for all I know, she may not be a paying customer and may not have even seen my email. Therefore, I will probably take my dog out to the rail trail on the days that I’ve seen her there before and take my chances that maybe someday I’ll bump into her. I don’t think I’ll have the nuts to send her a message through Facebook. Same with the other lady on there, although she has been liking some of my posts again after eight months of avoiding it after I actually reached out to her through messenger. Part of me wants to show you the brief messenger interaction I had with her last New Year’s, just to see if you think… because as innocuous as it was, it seemed to have scared her away, given that she was liking Facebook posts prior to that, and dead silence for eight months afterward. It was really just a simple goofy exchange to say hi, although she didn’t say much. She was clearly avoidant. Left nothing that indicated that she had any interest in hearing from me again. She was polite, and humorous, but not at all encouraging. I have read before that women in those kinds of situations don’t respond well to wishy-washy correspondences, and yes, mine was wishy-washy. I did not make it really clear what my interest was when I messaged her… I just told her I wanted to say hi, but then did nothing to close the deal. I have read that that is a dealbreaker with women, if you’re going to message them you have to make it clear why you are messaging them. I failed to do that. Sorry for my usual long winded rant… But I do appreciate all that you guys have written. Thank you!

I don’t think this really true. If anything, I’ve had people say that they think that I ask too many questions, and that I seem too friendly, and to some it seems suspicious, or a little creepy. I remember I went out on an Internet date about three years ago, and she was a fairly nice lady, and I did what I always do, I pretty much steered the conversation with questions about her life, where she grew up, where she went to school, what kinds of things she likes… That’s just who I am, and what interests me. I remember after about 20 minutes, she stopped suddenly with a very annoyed look on her face and said, “why are you asking me so many questions? What are you trying to find out?” I think it may be a cultural thing. I didn’t move to my current location until I was 18 years old, and although I am only about 600 miles from where I used to live, it’s a different country, and people are just… Well… Different. when I go back there to visit, it seems that people like to talk. They don’t just talk at you, they talk to you. It seems that they are interested in knowing who you are, and what you think. It’s not as much like that down here. It almost feels like people talk more at you, then to you. I think that’s just a regional difference. I think personality has a lot to do with it, as well. Many people where I am gravitate towards personality more than they do other characteristics. I’m kind of on the simple side, almost farmboy kind of personality… That has indeed changed over the last bunch of years, but I still am not at all the life of the party, nor do I convey myself as someone who is the life of the party. I think that’s a really important thing for many women where I live. Almost all the dating sites have women that will say it… I want financial security, I want masculinity, I want personality. I don’t really have any of those things in spades. I have lots of other attributes, but it’s hard for me to attract others that are similar.

Well, I think it’s only partially true that I have been passive… I think there are a lot of extenuating circumstances. Let’s take a look at what I have not been passive about… I joined a band a few years ago, and have pretty much taken over a lot of the business side of the band, and we have been getting out to some neat places where I have been meeting some other musical type people. That’s been awesome, but it’s slow to progress, and it has its downsides, as previously mentioned. I don’t have a ton of time or money to do a lot of things that most people might do. I have half custody of a 14-year-old kid, so I am with her half the week, and I only work part time, and prefer it that way… Since I am semi retired, so I pretty much live dime to dime. That’s my choosing, and I have to live with that, and I am OK with that. So, going to activities that cost money is pretty much out. I live in a terribly expensive area, and almost every activity is painful. Why do I not attract a high caliber of women, or even a medium caliber for that matter? I’m a little bit of a bohemian. I have long hair, and I am short and somewhat effeminate. I could control the long hair part, but I have no interest in doing that. It’s my choice, but it’s not accepted by a good chunk of our culture. I have found throughout my entire life, with overwhelming evidence, that it is almost entirely how I look that pretty much makes the difference. That certainly doesn’t mean that all short effeminate men don’t get dates, but I can assure you, it lowers the success rate immeasurably. Over the years, I wondered about this and embarked in quite a few experiments, and the end result is, and was, that it’s how I look that makes the most difference. Height. Masculinity. It had nothing to do with how nice I am or how pleasant I am to be around. Of course, I’m not Mr. personality. That seems to be a big draw with people within our culture. I think many people would probably say that they think I am kind of brainy and nerdy. I will refrain from telling you what kind of experiments that I did, but they were pretty conclusive… 😳😳 I do like the idea of being involved in different activities, and I try to do that when I can… Someone mentioned meet up, which I looked into… Just can’t find anything yet that I would really want to do. I feel that as I age, my priorities are changing, and I don’t just want to go do things that I can’t afford and that I don’t really enjoy doing that much, just to meet someone. I suspect that sounds lazy, but I certainly can’t help how I feel about it. There are just too many things I enjoy doing that are way more important to me. As far as being passive leading to me not being invited to parties. Frankly, I think that’s bullocks. At work, I was always smiley and willing to say hi and be nice to everyone… I thought I was very kind. But most of the guys at work wanted to talk about the basketball game on TV last night, or the tailgating that they did at the football game. That stuff just doesn’t interest me, so spending time with them at lunch didn’t lead to any kind of real bonding. I can talk about sports a little bit, but a lot of guys run much deeper than that. Many if not most do. They did. I didn’t. I think I am often seen as an oddball and a weirdo. I don’t at all feel that about myself, and I don’t deliberately live my life to be that way. I try to be as authentic as I can and just be who I am. That has been attacked pretty much since I was a little kid. I could go on and on.

I wished it were that easy… 😩 I consider myself a kind and decent person, but I worked with 75 other people for 15 years, and was never asked to a social gathering. I would often hear others talk about work parties that they went to, but I wasn’t invited. To put that in context, however, I was always a good chunk older than my colleagues. That being said, I have not been invited to parties for pretty much my entire life. I couldn’t really tell you why, and I’ve pretty much stopped thinking about it. I go out to places for meals, and to festivals, mostly by myself… And I chitchat with people that I see, but I am often too shy to ask anyone out. It just never seems appropriate. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of opportunity, considering that most people that I encounter are coupled. I do play in a band, but I often find myself in the company of people that are drinking, and I’m not a drinker. So, that pretty much rules out bars and taverns. I just re-joined a dating site after many months away, but still only getting likes from ladies I don’t seem too interested in. The phrase beggars can’t be choosers seems to come to mind fairly quickly… 🙂

Hi all… I have found myself single for the last 2 1/2 months, after two years of a tumultuous relationship, and seven months of a nice but incompatible relationship… I hadn’t dated anyone for five years prior to these two. Perhaps for one of the first time in my life, I am not hating being single… Which is very unusual. I guess I am thankful for that. That being said, I am 61 years old guy and not getting any younger. As complicated as it always has seemed to be, I still want to try again. But with the right person. So… I typically have zero luck on dating sites, since I have very few ladies that I seem interested in ever responding to me or writing back. I don’t attract ladies easily. Here’s where the cold calling comes in… I have several Facebook lady friends that I have never met that I find attractive and interesting, and I know they are single. I’ve had to resist reaching out to them and sending them a message to say hi. I have read so much about ladies detesting it when guys text them or send them messages on Facebook or other social media sites and use those portals like dating sites. I have read on several occasions that ladies might find that creepy. ironically, the lady I dated for seven months did exactly that… She knew I was single, we had never met, and she sent me a simple Facebook message asking me if I wanted to get together for coffee. We started chatting from there. But she’s a girl, and girls seem to be able to do those things. Guys seem creepy if they do those things. I did text one of these ladies almost a year ago on Facebook, and she responded a little bit, but with very few words, and didn’t seem hugely interested in conversing, so I let it go. Sadly, she stopped liking my posts, which was one of the reasons that I thought about reaching out to her in the first place. My texting with her was kind of goofy, and I was joking and asking her questions about things she posted… I tried not to come across as creepy or serious, but I didn’t ask her out… But still… I wish I had the nerve to try to open up a conversation with her again. A lot of this is coming up because there was a girl in an adjacent neighborhood that had her profile on a dating site, and I’d like to know her… I saw her walking down the street with her dog today, and wondered how I could break the ice with this girl, and what manner would be appropriate. I had sent her a message through the dating site about a year ago and never heard back from her. What a surprise. That seems to be the norm, so I let it go. It almost feels like it would be inappropriate for me to try to reach out to her in another format, after not hearing back from her on the dating site. But there could’ve been many reasons for that, who knows. So… Do you guys think it is inappropriate to send cold call messages to people through social media sites, if you don’t even know someone, and it is not asked for? What do you think? Any thoughts about all of this?

Well, becoming “ready” to date or be in a relationship seems to be a little daunting, and evasive. How does one actually do that and accomplish being ready? No therapist or friend has really had the magical formula of what to do to become ready. Not sure I was any more ready to move forward than before the relationship I had that started two years ago, and look where that went. There were red flags, but nothing to give me an idea of what was to come over the next two years. So… I guess I have a choice. Try to proceed cautiously and learn on the fly, or spend my later years by myself, which doesn’t seem too appealing. I don’t have the answer to that one. In some ways,

I wish to truly think the folks who have responded on here, thus far. I know I probably deserve a verbal thrashing on here for obviously being quite shallow and judgmental about who I would like to date, but you have to understand… Trauma history can wreak havoc on how we perceive things, and how we perceive others. It’s a work in progress, for me, for sure.

Interesting thoughts, thank you. I do find myself attracted to women from afar, but have never had the confidence to approach them, let alone ask anyone out. The times that I did, I pretty much got laughed at. Hence, my lack of belief that I will be partnered with this “high on a pedestal“ kind of girl. I also believe that I often romanticize these kinds of women, and for not the right reasons. Not because they are necessarily a good fit for me, but because they check all the boxes, and they are bit like trophies… I know, I can’t help that feeling of being shallow. I think this girl is likely good for me for a lot of the right reasons. She does feel safe, and easy. And she adores me for her own reasons. She’s not a trophy, though, and I think that’s what I have to get past. I’m getting too young to want or need someone that validates me because of how they appear to others. I’m being quite vulnerable with you here, because I’m not proud that there’s a deep dark part of me that feels a need to convince others that I know that I can snag a real catch. That feeling kind of sucks. if anything, I think this lady terrifies me because I know that she represents somebody “real“ with real world shortcomings, and that perhaps I have to confront my own insecurities in order to value her for the decent loving woman that she is. That’s a tall order for someone that has the kind of wounds that I obviously have.

Yeah, I have been under the care of mental health professionals, and they think this is a very positive step for me. Go figure. Truth be told, I don’t know if I will ever sort all of this out with any woman. I have to wonder if this is just what I have as my lot in life with women. So far, that’s been the case.

Thank you guys for your thoughts. I wish it felt as simple as it just me being not that into her. In many ways, she represents almost all of the things that I value… I think I have a hugely avoidant personality in relationships… I have felt this kind of black-and-white thinking with almost every girl I’ve ever dated. It’s not as extreme as, say, someone with a borderline or narcissistic personality disorder, since I don’t get nasty… I just start seeing the other person as being flawed, even inferior, and it takes my attraction right out of the equation. Other times, my heart is feeling open, and I can feel extreme attraction and love, almost profoundly. It’s almost like I go from one pole to the other. is it true that I could someday meet someone that checks all the boxes… I suppose, but it hasn’t happened in my almost 61 years on the planet, and I don’t really feel a lot of hope that it will. This lady is a sweetheart, and she doesn’t deserve to be hurt, and I feel like my constant splitting black/white on her is going to be a hard ride for her. Just don’t know where to go with it.

Hi there, Six months ago, I parted from my girlfriend of two years who I believe was mentally unstable. There was verbal abuse from her which was very difficult. It’s been a rough road for the last six months, But I have been trying hard to move on and heal… And I have now began dating someone new. I am in my early 60s, and I was pretty much resigned to the notion that I might be single for the long-haul. Here’s my trouble. I am having very negative almost delusional thoughts about this new lady. She’s really good to me. Very sweet. Clearly wants me for the future. It kind of scares the crap out of me. I go from white to black thinking. There are times that I look at her and think she is the sweetest most decent girl on the planet, but then I’ll see her next time, and my brain has all of these negative thoughts… Like: she’s not right for me. She’s not this. She’s not that. I almost begin to see her as unattractive and not good enough for me. I feel really shallow. I suspect a lot of this may be the result of a sort of post traumatic response from my last girlfriend, and other trauma in my life, but I can’t really tell. I feel a lot of shame, because I’m judging this girl so harshly… We all have our deficiencies, and she has her’s, and I seem to put those flaws under a microscope and magnify them to the largest degree. I feel so cheap and judgmental, but I can’t help it. there is a lot of depth as to where the thoughts likely come from, and I may get into them another time… So I’m not really sure what my point is for this post, except for maybe to get some other perspectives from people that may have experienced similar kind of black-and-white thinking? it goes back-and-forth so profoundly, it’s almost like I can’t tell what is real and what is imagined… I can see myself being with her and loving her at one moment, to having her over later in the day and feeling such a disconnect and lack of attraction that I feel like I need to break up with her. I just can’t get my thoughts straight. Any words of wisdom? thank you so much for any of your thoughts.