ORION75

Never fear! Stop worrying that you might be gay, at least for now. The chances are your body hasn't made up its mind at your age. Sexual identity can be in flux into your early twenties (any confusion beyond about 21-22 is usually more psychological than physiological). As for masturbating with your friend, there is nothing wrong or particularly uncommon with your activities. Group masturbation is an everyday thing among many, many young men of your age, most of whom are not and never will be gay. It's just not something most guys like to talk about, because they think it automatically makes them gay. What's really going on is a combination of two things: your heightened sensitivity to anything sexual due to your elevated hormone levels, and your innate curiosity about your body and those of your friend(s). Fooling around with another guy during this period is a fairly healthy way of dealing with both, and having a bit of good, clean fun along the way. The same goes for further experimentation between the two of you, although if you end up engaging in sexual activity you need to make sure you are both ready for it (probably not!) and that you practice safe sex if you do. Believe it or not, even that has little to do with whether you will be gay or bisexual when you become an adult, no matter what anyone tells you. Either way, letting yourself do what your body wants to do right now (responsibly and within reason, of course) is a good way to make sure you are healthy later in life. If by course of nature you do end up being gay or bisexual, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it, and your life will be much more stabile and content if you have laid the groundwork for acceptance of these traits earlier in life. The point is that none of these activities will contribute to "making" you gay or bisexual. They will simply get it out of your system if you are not, and make it easier to deal with if you are. Either way, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Have fun, set your worries aside, and give yourself a break. Also, perhaps you might pick a new Username, as it tends to worry some of us when someone (jokingly or not) talks of killing themselves! I've read another of your posts and it doesn't sound like you were serious about that, thankfully.

I really feel bad for what you're going through right now. I have been there, and I know exactly how torn up inside you are. A few things I thought of when reading your post . . . First and foremost, one thing nobody has remarked about is your age, which I believe you said is 18. Please understand that I do not mean to belittle your feelings by this next point. They are real, they are valid, and you should never discount them no matter what anybody says. With that in mind, however, it might help to understand why you feel so much in overdrive right now, flooded by so many (new) feelings that probably really confuse you. Part of the answer is that you are growing up and in a new place in life in your first year at university. The other part, though, is undoubtedly your hormones. Even though you are nearly an adult, your hormones are probably going to be completely out of control for at least another year, and they are most definitely not going to settle down to entirely manageable levels for several more after that. This is especially true if you were a little later than your friends in developing in adolescence. The good news for us guys is that this means you will probably still grow some more, even downstairs! The downside is that you are probably going to be a basket case from time to time until you are 21 or 22. Either way, the end result is that elevated hormone levels make you feel everything you feel right now in raging technicolour, and often in floods of different feelings that are impossible to sort out all at once. All of this is perfectly normal, and I only bring it up so that you can maybe cut yourself a bit of slack. You are judging yourself in a lot of what you are saying, and it is important to remember (always, but especially at this stage in your life) that things you feel are not always going to make sense to you. This is part of being an 18 year-old, gay, bi-, or straight, and doesn't have anything to do with whether these feelings are right or wrong. There are no such thing as wrong feelings. Now, add to this internal witch's brew the fact that these are NEW feelings for you. You haven't had enough experience in life yet to be able to look back, compare it to a similar situation in your past, and give yourself instructions about how to deal with all of this. Understandably, you also don't feel comfortable talking to the people who normally give you guidance in other aspects of your life about all of this, which leaves you with very few places to turn for help in sorting this for yourself. As wonderful as enotalone.com is, it can't give you the hug and pat on the back that you need right now, and it may be harder for you to accept advice from this forum (including mine) because you haven't grown to respect and trust us in person. That's why you listen to your parents and friends when they give you advice - because you know them and can trust what they are saying. Of course, that doesn't mean that they are always right, either! What I am getting at is trying to help you sort out that you have several issues to deal with right now. Perhaps by separating and organising them, it will make it easier to handle all of this. First, you have the issue of having a pretty serious crush on another guy. Second, you have the issue of dealing with how you feel about having those feelings, and learning to accept things you have probably always been told were wrong (but which are not). Third, you don't have anyone you know and trust to talk about all of this with, which makes you feel alone (like you're the only guy with this problem and thereforeeee there is something wrong with you), and probably doesn't help in your acceptance of yourself. The first two are fairly self-explanatory, but regarding the last issue, it would be really great if you can find someone you can trust implicitly, underscore someone you know will be accepting and supportive of you regardless of your sexual orientation, and let all of this out. Their support and acceptance of you will be a crucial building block in you becoming a healthy man of whatever sexual orientation you become. How do I know all of this? The hormones bit I know about because I am a doctor. The bit about having a major crush on another guy I know from experience. Your story could have easily been about me, verbatim. In my second week of college, having always dated and been attracted to women, I spotted a guy at an event we were attending in the park, and he ended up occupying the next two years of my life (as my best friend). I had a huge crush on him the whole time (sexual and everything), and I know he had similar feelings, too. He admitted them to me, but (like you) was too conflicted at the time to feel comfortable doing anything about them. Things got a bit too heavy for both of us, and we stopped being friends after a while. Did it hurt? Yes, terribly. Do I agree with your notion that the possibility of emotional pain for both of you should keep you from doing anything about all of this? Absolutely not. Life is too short, and feelings like this don't come around all that often. It will hurt tremendously if it doesn't work out (less deep and passing more quickly the more times this happens to you!), but your life will be richer for the experience. You'll also know more about what to do next time this happens, because it will. I think there are a lot of guys who spend their whole life being at least as attracted to men as women, and doing nothing about it. It's really quite sad, when you think about it, because you can't help how you feel, can you? Quickly, because this post is growing into a book, perhaps you can learn from a few of my own mistakes: In these situations, it is easy to spend months if not years pining away for a guy who is the object of your affections and doing nothing about those feelings because you are too afraid or uncomfortable. Usually this occurs within the boundaries of a very close friendship, which can be confusing in itself because what is a close friendship but a love relationship without sex? This is almost never a good thing. The longer you wait, the more confused and clouded the situation becomes. You start looking for all sorts of proof of mutual feelings, etc., and usually end up with a fairly deluded view of what is actually going on. It is impossible to read with reliable accuracy whether another person has similar feelings to yours, especially over a long period of time, and especially when the whole issue is clouded by the fact that you are both guys (who are likely not comfortable with same-sex issues). If in the end it's bad news, the result is especially difficult to deal with if you've waited a long time. If it's good news, look at all of the fun and intimacy you have missed while sitting on the fence! Ideally, assuming you get to know this guy, you need to figure out as quickly as you can what you want from the relationship. It could be just a friendship, but based on what you've written it seems like you probably have a strong physical attraction to him, as well. It is extremely important not to ignore this or try to deceive yourself about your sexual feelings. They won't go away, no matter how hard you try, and there is nothing wrong with them in the first place, so why try to get rid of them? Once you figure out what it is you want, and once you know him well enough that it is appropriate to talk to him about your relationship, you need to find out if what you want is attainable from him. This is a complex issue! Unlike a boy-girl relationship, it is not as simple as "does he like me?". It's "does he like me?" added to "is he comfortable with the fact that he likes me if he does" coupled with "is he brave/comfortable enough to do anything about it, or has he decided that he just isn't ready right now?". It really sucks, but this is what society's traditional lack of acceptance for same-sex relationships has done to people in our situation. The lesson: If you wait too long, you usually arrive at the same answer you would have had you not waited, and it hurts ten times worse in the end if things don't work out. Next, you need to start to understand now that - even if you end up with somebody that likes you and wants to have a same-sex relationship with you - you are going to have a number of problems you don't understand until you learn to accept yourself for who you are. At this point, you may not be ready for a same-sex relationship yourself. It is important not to push yourself, either. As difficult as it is, if you don't get to the point where you don't have major reservations and respect issues about homosexuality, you will never be happy in a same-sex relationship (even with this guy who you dream about constantly). A big step in doing this is to find that person I mentioned earlier and confide in them. It is this lack of respect for that part of you (thinking that your feelings are wrong, asking God's forgiveness, not wanting to be gay or bi-) that are probably at the root of why you don't care much about your own happiness when you think about this guy. A great relationship involves two happy people, you being one of them. If that doesn't apply to a relationship you are in or one you are fantasising about, you need to return to the issue of self-acceptance until you have it beat. The lesson: Put some serious energy into becoming comfortable with same-sex relationships and the possibility that you are gay or bisexual. Your ultimate goal is to become comfortable enough with it that you don't care who knows about that part of you (always remember it's only one part of you, and not by far the most important part). Once you start to accept yourself, a miraculous thing will happen: You will start to expect others to accept and respect you for who you are, not who you sleep with. It will happen all by itself. Right now, you are having trouble accepting yourself, and thereforeeee you would never expect anybody else to accept you. That's why this feels like such a deep, dark secret. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that it's the opposite, that if other people would accept them it would be easy to feel comfortable being gay. While it certainly helps in the beginning to have at least one person in your corner who knows about your sexuality and accepts you, it is definitely not a cure-all for feeling comfortable in your own skin. My confession: I am 29 and have followed very little of the advice I have given you above. While I have had some great relationships with women during this time, I have fallen in love with several guys and been left heartbroken on several occasions because I waited far too long before addressing the situation, saw things that weren't there, and had nobody to talk to about all of this. I am certain they could have been some of the most rewarding relationships of my life had I only been in a healthy position to actually do something about them. Sadly, I still don't feel comfortable enough with myself to have told anybody about that part of me (except for those I had feelings for), and it's a lonely feeling. I'm getting there, but now I really know how important dealing with all of this when you are younger is. The older you get, the longer you wait, the bigger this whole issue becomes. The truth is, it's not nearly as big as it seems. It would be great if you could do better for yourself that I did for myself. I'll be fine, but it would have been terrific to have all that fun in my 20s. You still can! I hope this helps. Take care of yourself, and always trust your feelings.

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far in reply to my saga. Sorry it was so long, but it is such a complicated mess, it didn't make sense to simply summarise it. I, of course, must take him at his word (although every day he continues to behave in manner one would expect a spurned lover to do). I am just very, very confused, and very, very sad. It seems such a terrible waste. We became such fast and close friends, I miss him and I know he misses me, too. He, of course, wants to carry on as always, as if nothing happened. I just can't do that right now. I at least need him to acknowledge strong platonic feelings for me, which I know he has, but is incapable of expressing for some reason. Otherwise, our friendship is doomed to failure, and I am doomed to playing big brother to a kid who will never acknowledge what I mean to him. In this case, simply knowing is not enough. How does one reconcile his behaviour for the past seven months, i.e., the flirting, the looks, allowing me to pay for everything, &c., and his current behaviour (seems quite curious if not jealous of what I am up to instead of hanging out with him) with his denial of any real feelings? Is it possible he just needs more time to sort them out? Should I bite the bullet and subscribe to 6 more months of pain?

Thanks for your reply to my posting. You and I are in similar positions, I think, except you at least have absolute proof that your guy is interested in the same sex. It sounds to me like you have encountered someone who is struggling with their sexuality. How old is he? If he is under 30 or so this would not be uncommon. I have found in reading and talking to other guys that it is more common than one might think for guys to look at other guys in straight porn, or to look at gay or bisexual porn to become aroused. In younger males 14-18 this behaviour (which also falls in line with gay experimentation and mutual masturbation) seems to have more to do with curiosity about their own bodies and how they stack up to others, as well as the fact that a pubescent teen male can become aroused by just about anything. When this behaviour carries over to late teens and beyond, sexuality is becoming crystallised, and one would think it would have more to do with actual sexual preference. Thus, if your friend is in his 20s or older and downloading a lot of gay porn, I would say that he is at least bisexual (have you seen any straight porn on his computer?), whether he knows it or not. The problem is that, regardless of having a sexual preference for men, many men (perhaps a majority of men who are not entirely straight) allow social factors to mitigate those preferences. Their reactions can range from ones of total denial (to themselves and others), to a conscious decision not to act on those impulses for social or religious reasons. My personal feeling is that the latter group are the ones that end up married with children, and leaving their wives for other men. I have no proof of this, but there must be a study out there somewhere. What to do about your situation . . . He's obviously not ready to deal with this yet, with you or anyone else. Since this seems to be more a curisoty for you than a love interest, I would suggest that you start coming out more if you feel comfortable doing so. If you consider him a good friend, tell him about yourself. First, however, I would start a few conversations with him about gay issues (you say he's a republican), and make sure he is likely to be open to your orientation. The last thing you want is for him to shun you out of his own insecurity and end the friendship. Once you get that ball rolling, perhaps you could invite him to go with you to a gay-sponsored event, or to a club. I don't know. He knows that you know he's curious. Perhaps you should say or do something to communicate that if he's curious, so are you, and it might be fun to explore some things together. He's probably just not sure whether you are "safe" yet. He needs to know at this point that if he opens up to you, you won't tell anyone and you won't push him faster than he wants to go. He may also just not be ready to open up to anyone, or he may be waiting until he falls in love with someone (and that's not you . . . yet). Are you sure you want to get into this if you aren't interested in him? Sounds like a lot of work!

I am a guy, 28, and live in London. I have been attracted to both men and women for as long as I can remember. Being very shy and busy with work from an early age, I never really pursued either sex actively, and thus only ever had the chance to fall head over heels in love with my two best (guy) friends when I was 16 and 22. Living in the closet insofar as that part of me is concerned has thus lead to a great deal of heartache along the way, enough that I decided only to pursue women about four years ago. As it turns out, however, I met someone considerably younger than me via work and unexpectedly fell for him. He is 19, but extremely mature for his age, and I thought he was nearer 25 when I met and befriended him. In any case, neither of us seem to notice the age difference. He is literally everything I could ever want in a boyfriend (or girlfriend), and I was instantly attracted to him when we first met. Before I let myself drift too far, however, I tried to be careful not to let things go before I figured out whether he would even be interested in a relationship. Careful as I was, I have been left in a state of severe pain and confusion after a six month ordeal. I'll make this as short as possible. Our relationship started the way many romances do - in the eyes. For several months I would catch him staring at me from accross a crowded room, and he would look away every time I caught him doing so. When we finally started talking to each other, we would look each other dead in the eyes for what seemed like an eternity, even when chatting about trivial things. We would also make very obvious excuses to wander over to talk to one another, which became more frequent as we got to know each other. The stares, smiles, blushes, and what I considered to be general flirtation carried on for over three months. It was like being in school again. After a while, he even sorted out which gym I go to, and started showing up there religiously whenever I did, and carried that on until we started seeing each other regularly. We started hanging out together and quickly found ourselves spending every afternoon and evening together. I would take him to lunch and/or dinner nearly every day, and on the rare days we would miss seeing each other it was clear that neither of us were too happy about it. At meals and at other times, the eye contact would continue. He cooled off for about a month, but then his flirtations came back like wildfire about two months ago, when he would routinely look right into my eyes, smile an ear-to-ear grin, and blush before shyly looking away. If I played hard to get, he would always respond. He allowed me to pay for everything, and loved it when I gave him gifts. Now he wants to travel with me, and is clearly very excited about it. On the flipside of things, he always seems to carefully avoid physical contact with me (I live a fairly straight life and have absurdly straight friends, and they have 200 times more physical contact with me every day than he ever has). He has never once given me an impromptu gift in response to my generosity, or made any gesture of that nature. On my birthday, he attended the party, but I don't remember him even saying "happy birthday," and all he could muster up was a bag of Hershey's kisses. We have slept in the same over a half-dozen times, and despite ending up quite close together in the middle of a King-size bed, nothing ever happened. He also has a girlfriend, whom he has more or less shunned for six months to hang out with me, and about whom he complains constantly. He refuses to call her his girlfriend in my presense, and gets irritated if I do, even thought they have been together for over a year. He says that she would call herself his girlfriend, but that he feels otherwise. He constantly minimises the fact that she even exists, and has talked about planning to break up with her from the day the subject came up. What exactly made me think he might be gay or bi? Aside from what I considered to be fairly standard flirtations and patterns of behaviour for a person interested in more than friendship, I thought he might be on the fence for several reasons. The fact that he is politically very liberal had little to do with it, but that he would go out of his way to tell me that he thought gay marriage should be legalised got my attention. I never brought the subject of homosexuality up in his presense, and yet he would work it into conversations frequently, from politics to trivial things. He demonstrated a working knowledge of "gay" things that rivaled my own, all without provocation (i.e., did I know that this celebrity was gay, always interested to note that we were in the gay part of town, did I think the two guys sitting accross the restaurant were gay, &c.). I am not sure, but I think I also caught him checking out other guys several times. It's hard to put a finger on it, but I just got the general sense that beneath his otherwise masculine, straight-acting exterior, there was a very shy, gentle, tender person with a number of secrets. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture. The story takes an abrupt turn for the worse here. I ended up taking him away for the weekend, and two days into the trip took him to dinner and told him how I felt about him. He had, in fact, sensed that I wanted to tell him something and had been playfully trying to pry it out of me all day (which made me think he wanted to hear what I had to say). When I did, he was very accepting, but very straightforward (almost in a calculated way). Much to my shock, horror, and disbelief, he very quickly said that he had no problem with it, and that in any case I shouldn't be too disappointed because I must have known he could NEVER feel the same way. Ready to burst into tears, I told him that I, in fact, thought he DID feel the same way, and he seemed genuinely perplexed at how I arrived at this conclusion. I mentioned a few of the things described above, and he blew each and every one of them as mere coincidences. I asked him if he had ever been attracted to another guy, or felt capable of it, and he said he had not and was not. He then said something that made no sense to me at all. This guy, who is extremely shy around everyone he meets, not even comfortable enough with his own body to walk around in his underwear in front of me, is so conservative that he has never tried drink and never had a cigarette in his mouth, the same guy who refuses to call his girlfriend his girlfriend, tells me that he is basically a (hetero-) sex addict. He quickly volunteers that at the ripe old age of 19, he recently calculated that he has had sex well over 1,000 times with four girls. In shock, I asked how that could be, and his response was that he "guessed this was [his] only vice." He said he had sex for the first time when he was 15, and it was so much fun he couldn't stop, and that he did it constantly until he was 17. Since then, he still has regular sex with his girlfriend who is not his girlfriend (i.e., 2-3 times a week), but it isn't "as much fun," and "doesn't feel the same way," so he doesn't do it as much . . . I don't know whether to believe this or not, as it seems so highly uncharacteristic of him (even as a straight guy). I certainly don't want to believe him, as it would mean I have the worst gaydar of any guy on the planet. Whereas before his reason for breaking up with his girlfriend was that "he didn't want to be in a relationship right now," he added for the first time that the reason is so that he can date other women for a month or so, sleep with them, and then break up. Somewhat in disbelief of his story, I told him this would be much easier if I thought what he was really saying is that he simply couldn't deal with same-sex feelings right now. He once again claimed that he had no same-sex feelings for me or anyone else. The farthest he went was to say that he supposed it could happen some day in the future, since it appeared to be happening to me and we were so much alike, but that he wouldn't bet on it. In short, I felt like I was talking to a completely different person than the one I had come to know and love over the past seven months. Horrified, I said that I wished I hadn't brought it up. He suggested that it was probably just a stage I was going through, and that my feelings would go away. Above all, he made it very clear that my secret was safe with him, and that this didn't change things from his perspective one bit. He was frighteningly cool about it – to the extent that he went right back to small-talk and, had I not been on the verge of tears for the rest of the trip, we could have simply pretended it never happened. I could barely muster a smile for the last day of the trip, and couldn't wait to get him home and be away from him. I now have no idea what to do, or what to make of this situation. While it seems clear that there is no chance of a relationship beyond a friendship with him, I cannot simply disregard all of the signs that led me to this place. Your advice would be much appreciated, particularly with regard to: a) What you think is going on with him? What is your take on our relationship and his sexuality? There is no question that this has not been a normal male-male platonic friendship. If he's straight and not interested in me, how can his behaviour be explained? b) How likely is his story about his sex addiction? If not, why would he make that up? If he's had that much sex with women, how likely is it that he's bisexual? c) Given the evidence, what should I do? Could he be needing a bit of a shove, or would that make things worse? or, Is it worth it to try to get over my feelings and just be friends, or if that is even possible (right now it seems neither possible nor of interest to me)? Two weeks ago I was literally thanking God for sending me somebody to love after a five year drought, and now it feels like I've lost everything. And what about the eye contact, the smiles, and body language? Have I lost my mind, i.e., was I making all that up?? Above all, does one believe a 19 year old under these circumstances? Every instinct in my body tells me he has feelings for me and that, like the previous two times in my life, this is all a tremendous waste. Thanks for reading if you made it this far. Your comments and advice are most appreciated.