I wish to help my girlfriend

[Enigmatic]

I have a situation that I hope some people can help me with.

 

To provide a clear picture of the situation as it stands my girlfriend is 17 and I am 30, both of us gave very careful consideration before we started going out, we consulted her mother and we sat and talked seriously about all of the implications and difficulties we may have to face as a result of the age difference we have.

 

Her father died of a heart attack just under a year prior and a year prior to this she sadly had to endure a nasty break up of her parents as a result of her father having an affair.

 

(Before anyone asks, yes we have discussed the possibility of the "father figure" playing a role and we both know it must play a small part in some respect).

 

My own story is that I have been in 4 serious relationships and have known and seen various people in between. I had been married once (which we also discussed) and I have fully disclosed to her my entire past and everything I have done.

 

My last girlfriend (34) and I have become good friends (due to a mutual decision to split up), and both of us are only children and find ourselves very much in a "brother-sister" relationship.

 

When I first started going out with my girlfriend (16 months after my last relationship), my "sister" became a little sensitive. I attribute this to the fact she is still single and desperately wishes to be in a relationships, also believing her time is running out. She never believed I would be in another relationship (I had said I didn't want one) and so seeing me in one only brought back the feelings of her loneliness.

 

I explained all of this to my girlfriend and while I wanted them to meet and get to know each other (who wouldn't want their sister to meet the person they love?), I was considerate of my ex's feelings and delayed the meeting. I asked my girlfriend how she was feeling and if it was effecting her and she said she felt a little uncomfortable but was ok with it.

 

About 6 months passed and eventually they met (I did have to get quite angry with my ex considering the amount of time since we had gone out and how it was starting to upset my girlfriend). They have now met several times after that.

 

Recently my girlfriend has told me she doesn't trust me, that she worries about the times I am on my own and while she no longer feels concerned about my "sister" the lack of contact in the beginning has caused enough damage for her to be mistrustful.

 

I have never given her any reason to mistrust me, I have always been open and honest about everything I have done and have always asked her if there is anything I can do to make her feel more comfortable.

 

She tells me that understands her mistrust is unreasonable, and that there is nothing I can do to make her feel better. I am at a loss hwo to help her or what to do... I am now suffering for the fact I have a past and that something which was beyond my control caused damage I cannot fix.

 

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Shy_Guy]

Are you REALLY that surprised that a seventeen year old child is having qualms, doubts and questions about her relationship with you? She's comparing herself against the WOMAN you once were intimate with, and finds herself looking like what she is, a child. Your worldview and hers are ENTIRELY different. Welcome to the world of dating someone too young. This is but one of the many manifestations that will occur as a result of the differences in your respective ages. She should be babysitting for someone your age, not dating someone your age.

 

As for the 'sister', in the final analysis, she's probably mortified by the thought that she would have once dated, or since just befriended, a cradle-robber. She's probably wondering what on earth you're expecting her to do with this girl. Are you expecting them to have a similarity of views, because they're both 'women'? Should they be together, socially, when the child in question can't even legally get a drink. I think you're being unrealistic. Your 'sister' would feel even more like a babysitter.

 

I wish I could give you more positive advice, but this is a problem of your own making. To expect a seventeen year old CHILD to be consistent or even completely rational in her thinking is sheer nonsense. If she were MY daughter, you and I would be having a very DIFFERENT type of discussion, my MAN to your VICTIM.

 

Good luck, as it were.

[Enigmatic]

Shy_Guy...

 

The first thing I wanted to say is that you are a person of very narrow mind and someone of very large ignorance.

 

Do you ever take situations on a "case-by-case" basis? Or does everything simply come down to if X - Y > Z then BAD?

 

Basically what you are saying is that you have absolutely no knowledge of this person, no knowledge of her maturity, what has brought her to the point of who she is today and yet you INSULT her by throwing around the word "child" as if it is derogatory and that is all she is.

 

When I was 14 I was far more mature than most 30 year olds, several circumstances lead to this... she is very much the same as me. What she has been through, the experiences of her life that have brought her to where she has have given her maturity beyond her years.

 

Yet you "instantly" come back to the same thing? One has to wonder if perhaps there is an experience in your past which makes you react in this irrational manner. Did you have a daughter who went out with someone older? Is this the reason for your pure "venom" for anyone who is older?

 

But let me ask... what IS the exact age that is considered "too young"? If I were 19 there would be 2 years difference... I assume 2 years is ok? What about 3? 4? 8?

 

Please... for the benefit of everyone here, give me your CALCULATION that determines when someone is too young or too old. Define this imaginary line so that everyone can type in their figures and decide if their relationship is wrong based on YOUR rules.

 

(Oh and a copy of your certificate of "Godhood" would also be appreciated... as you are the authority on such things obviously)

 

Are you REALLY that surprised that a seventeen year old child is having qualms, doubts and questions about her relationship with you?

 

Interesting... I talk about an insecurity she has and you go on about her doubting our relationship? Mmm... interesting. I dont believe I ONCE said she doubted our relationship... only that because of her history and of this event, she has an insecurity. Obviously you don't care about someone getting over an insecurity, you are more interested in FLAMING someone because they don't measure up to YOUR magical marker line.

 

She's comparing herself against the WOMAN you once were intimate with, and finds herself looking like what she is, a child.

 

She is sitting here now and I posed this question to her. Her answer was simply no. She thought about it and said that it wouldn't have mattered if this previous person was 34 or 24...

 

Interesting... can you explain how it is you know the mind of a 17 year old girl far better than a 17 year old girl does? I would be interested to know... how long have you been a 17 year old girl?

 

Your worldview and hers are ENTIRELY different.

 

The only worldview I think that is ENTIRELY different here is YOURS. That your mind is that of a 17 year old girl, in order to give you this MAMMOTH understanding must be difficult to bear in the real world.

 

Welcome to the world of dating someone too young. This is but one of the many manifestations that will occur as a result of the differences in your respective ages. She should be babysitting for someone your age, not dating someone your age.

 

Well in all honestly, I had far more problems, more "tantrums" and more doubt and quarrels with my "sister" who is 34. While she can display the maturity that most people her age have, her (and most people that I have seen in various social circles) exhibit LESS maturity during times of difficulty.

 

Do you have children? I would be very concerned if you did... being so forceful of your own opinions on them such as saying what they SHOULD and SHOULDN'T be doing with THEIR lives must be a great burden to them

 

As for the 'sister', in the final analysis, she's probably mortified by the thought that she would have once dated, or since just befriended, a cradle-robber. She's probably wondering what on earth you're expecting her to do with this girl. Are you expecting them to have a similarity of views, because they're both 'women'? Should they be together, socially, when the child in question can't even legally get a drink. I think you're being unrealistic. Your 'sister' would feel even more like a babysitter.

 

I think your right... that is probably what is going through her mind. The funny thing is that the two of you seem to share very similar belief. Both my sister and you would think the same thing in this aspect because both of you are very ignorant and intollerant... believing your own moral levels should be everyone elses.

 

I wish I could give you more positive advice, but this is a problem of your own making.

 

No you don't... you don't wish at all that you could give ANY advice because you have taken great delight in completely ignoring the problem and deciding it was YOUR quest in life to flame anyone that doesn't pass your magic marker.

 

To expect a seventeen year old CHILD to be consistent or even completely rational in her thinking is sheer nonsense.

 

Please show me where I actually expected that?

 

I dont believe I ever said I was expecting her to think anything, I simply wanted some advice on how I may go about helping the person I love, about providing her support and comfort while we are dealing with this situation.

 

Obviously you have read into this what you wanted to, ignored everything that was said and decided it was time to go on your own tirade.

 

If she were MY daughter, you and I would be having a very DIFFERENT type of discussion, my MAN to your VICTIM.

 

Good luck, as it were.

 

If she was YOUR daughter she would be a dribbling wreck. She would be totally insecure, feel completely under your thumb and be convinced that she didn't have a mind of her own and should default to your every whim.

 

If you were her father then yes the two of us would have a very different type of discussion... the discussion would involve me trying to work out why it is you would try to suppress and dominate a human being (And she is a HUMAN BEING not a 'child' as you so often like to insult her with).

 

You say she can't drink legally... well 3/4 of the LEGAL population SHOULD NOT drink as it is... obviously age is not an indicator of ability to be mature and know moderation. She can drive a car, which means she is a responsible and mature human being which the government has granted the acceptance to be responsible enough for her own life and the life of those around her.

 

Yet in your eyes... she is a CHILD and should probably still be playing with her "dollies" in her room until YOU decide what her future holds...

 

Poor girl... I really hope you wake up to yourself one day and realise that people have their own minds, they have their own desires and as long as you do everything within your power to make sure the person is making a mature, informed and well educated decision, then you have done everything you can.

 

You make me sick!

[Shy_Guy]

Perhaps you are entirely correct about everything, and I am mistaken. You and the young lady could be very well perfect for each other. There of course is NO litmus test regarding age/maturity. I won't debate your 'points', because I didn't before and won't NOW flame you. You won't believe this statement, but then your viewpoint and mine are obviously diametrically oppposed to each other. You are also correct in the assumption that I am a father. I think it would be equally obvious that you are not. In regard to my man versus victim comment, I truly apologize for that anger-derived statement. I make no claims to divinity, and never have. You came here looking for advice and you may still get some. I'll hazard a guess, knowing in advance that you'll respond negatively, but here it is anyway: When you didn't receive the advice you were looking for, regarding HOW to reassure your girlfriend about the relationship and your interaction with your ex, but rather that the VALIDITY of your current relationship was questioned, this angered you. You probably feel as though the relationship itself is fait accompli, and not to be questioned. Just as with your 'sister', I don't subscribe to this point of view.

 

I *do* wish you both all of the luck in the world. I hope at some point in the future you develop a thick skin, because all of the whispers behind your back, the stares, and the awkward silences in the middle of conversations will begin to wear on you and her, if they haven't already. Out of sheer curiosity, do you socialize often with YOUR friends? Has she integrated well in group situations, or do you find yourselves more involved in 'couples' type things? Just curious.

 

I'm sure you'll respond, and I expect it to be negative, even vicious.

 

In advance of all of what will follow, good luck.

[Enigmatic]

You are also correct in the assumption that I am a father. I think it

would be equally obvious that you are not.

 

That is true... obviously fatherhood robs a person of some of their sensibility

and makes them "lose" maturity in the way they act when the person involved hits

a little too close to home and strikes a similarity to one of your children.

 

In regard to my man versus victim comment, I truly apologize for that

anger-derived

statement. I make no claims to divinity, and never have.

 

I would have thought that as a rational, well educated, "adult" and mature

individual you would not have acted out of ignorance and that you would allow a

person to stand on their own merrits, to get to know THEM for who they are and

find out the TRUTH rather than making an instant and ignorant assumption

that they MUST be some form of predator.

 

Of course making that ignorant assumption would probably mean you are right 9

times out of 10.. I am not denying that, but that still means 1 person in 10 is

being abused and unfairly treated by you. As a human being you have a

responsibility NOT to jump to such conclusions simply because its more

efficient or correct more often than not.

 

About the divinity thing though... you certainly sounded like you were the one

who held within your hands the instruction book on life, packed full of formulae

and markers that were universally accepted as being absolute tests by

which everyone should live. Yet you don't... you are human like the rest of us

and there are no absolutes. What we have left is the fact that we have to take

EVERYTHING on a case-by-case basis... we reject things not because they

fail our own personal "levels"... but because we fairly, honestly and genuinely

looked at something for what it is and have definate reasons for the

rejection.

 

You don't do this.

 

I'll hazard a guess, knowing in advance that you'll respond negatively, but here

it is

anyway:

 

Then you would be wrong and the reason for your error is again a false

assumption based purely on your own bias and nothing on facts and reason.

 

When you didn't receive the advice you were looking for, regarding HOW to

reassure your girlfriend about the relationship and your interaction

with your ex, but rather that the VALIDITY of your current

relationship was questioned, this angered you.

 

Here is your false premise.

 

What angered me had nothing to do with the validity of my relationship, because

I understand with perfect clarity that someone on the opposite side of the

world, with nothing but a few hundred words to go by is simply not capable of

validating or invalidating another persons relationship. Why then would I get

angry knowing full well you have no such capability?

 

What angered me was your ignorance, it was the fact that you believe with 100%

absolute and unwaivering faith that YOUR views are the views everyone

else should hold. I got angry that you try to force everyone else to work by

your standards and that this ignorance WILL cause harm to your very own

children and you cannot see it.

 

If you were to know me as a person you would come to understand the things which

anger me... and ignorance, dominance, forced subjegation, automatic superiority

and similar things anger me... all of which you have demonstrated with the posts

I have read.

 

You probably feel as though the relationship itself is fait accompli, and not to

be

questioned.

 

That would be a very ignorant thing to believe wouldn't it?

 

I dont feel it is beyond question, in fact I am more than happy for it to be

questioned at any level and in any way because I am perfectly happy in being put

up to rigourous interrogation to show that my intentions in the relationship are

noble.

 

What will not stand however, is someone who has absolutely no knowledge of a

person, DEMEANING her by saying she is a "child" and that she is fit for

no more than "babysitting". How DARE you belittle and demoralise a person

by basically telling them they are not a "whole" human being, that they are

limited and that simply because of their age their capabilities are

restricted to caring for young children!

 

To think that you would do this to your own children is criminal. You are a

father and you have a child who is at a stage of life where her ENTIRE

future will be effected. The formation of her mind, her personality, the

understanding of her strengths and weaknesses will ultimate build the

foundation for the rest of her existence. Are you saying she is STRONG

and CAPABLE, that she can do anything she wanted because she is blossoming into

the FULL understanding of what it is to be an individual PERSON? No...

you tell her she is a CHILD, that she shouldn't expect anything more than

babysitting, that she probably isn't capable of much more, she should just

forget the fact she is an indivual and defer all of her decisions and all

of her free will to YOU... why? Because your "Father", because you know

better, because you are an ADULT and she is a CHILD.

 

What you are doing is the slow, insinuous and systematic DESTRUCTION of

your childrens future... and you don't even see it.

 

So you wonder why I am angry? I think you need to take the "log" out of your eye

before you start looking for "sticks" in mine.

 

> I *do* wish you both all of the luck in the world.

 

Do not patronise me, you have absolutely no such wish... to say so only proves

your deception and the desire to appear as if you are noble when you are

not.

 

I hope at some point in the future you develop a thick skin, because all of the

whispers behind your back, the stares, and the awkward silences in the middle of

conversations will begin to wear on you and her, if they haven't already.

 

The only people who have ever exhibited these traits have been those who are

completely ignorant and who do not have the perspicacity to even bother to try

to understand (much like yourself). Both of our families are absolutely over the

moon with our relationship. Sure in the beginning there were concerns, that is

only natural, but the more people took the time to overcome their bias and to

see what it truly was the more they realised their initial impressions were

wrong.

 

But I have to ask... do you expect everyone to make their decisions based on how

other people think? Is that how you live your life? Do something and if too many

OTHER people don't like it then stop it because others are incapable of

understanding? And what else do you draw the line at? What other "features" draw

whispers behind backs and awkward silences? Inter-racial relationships? Gay

relationships? He has a nose ring, she has a tattoo, he works in garbage

disposal, she isn't from our "class"...

 

Can you not see where this is going? Its bigotry and you are fueling it.

 

Out of sheer curiosity, do you socialize often with YOUR friends? Has she

integrated well in group situations, or do you find yourselves more involved

in 'couples' type things? Just curious.

 

The only person who has difficulties is my sister. All of my other friends

consider and treat her exactly as she is, another human being the same as

everyone else. Some of her less than mature friends have problems with it (does

this mean your maturity is at their level I wonder?), and some of their parents

are like you... they have never met me yet they are quick to make judgement.

 

I'm sure you'll respond, and I expect it to be negative, even vicious.

 

I wouldn't be who I am if I did not respond... and yes it is negative because it

DESERVES to be negative. I am not about to praise someone for their 18th

century mentality and their blatant bigotry and ignorance am i?

 

As for it being vicious it is very simple.

 

If I am unjustly or unfairly vicious to you then please explain where and why.

If I believe I have then I will make a genuine appology for having done so...

but perhaps you deserve vicius? Perhaps the fact that your views, your

opinions and that these will greatly influence the stability and strength of

your own children mean you SHOULD receive vicious? You certainly do a

good job of putting everyone else down and telling them they shouldn't be doing

this or that.. what makes you think you don't deserve something back?

 

The problem is that you have triggered a mechanism in me, when I see people who

do not have the ability to fight for themselves (ie your children) being abused

and subjegated then I will feel the need to provide them that ability they lack.

With all of my friends and everyone I have known (including my girlfriend) I

make it absolutely known that they have all the rights in the world, that they

are equal human beings the same as the person next to them and that they do not

have to endure anything that would cause them harm or pain. You however take the

"I am LORD, you do what I say" path and that is what has triggered my response.

 

What gives you the right to treat your children that way? The fact you provided

sperm during a moment of lust? Is that what fatherhood is? Some eternal right to

subjegate your offspring because it was a "side-effect" of a moment of sexual

gratification?

 

I seriously think you need to understand what it is to be a father, the fact its

a PRIVILEDGE and not a right, its something you should cherrish and not

something you should throw around like a bully simply because there is nobody

"bigger" or "stronger" that can stop you.

[Shy_Guy]

Please don't sugar-coat things, let us know how you REALLY feel.

 

 

Nonetheless, on the assumption that your original post was in regards to a genuine situation, you were coming here to look for...something. Whether you find what you're looking for, beyond a convenient target for your anger, only time will tell, and hopefully other people who have read our exchanges are motivated enough to throw their two cents worth in. It's possible that you came LOOKING for a fight and succeeded. Honestly, your opinions and commentary regarding my life, and my family, and my values mean little or nothing to me, because you know nothing about either me or my family, beyond your paradigm. Pehaps this entire story of a seventeen year old girlfriend is nothing but fiction, and is just a means to entertain yourself. At this point it's unimportant, because I could make the comment 'the sky is blue' and I'm sure you would take exception to it, and rebuke me in excruciating detail. If you're looking for a victory in a battle of wills, congratulations, you win. That and a quarter will get you a gumball.

 

Have a prosperous and happy life.

[Enigmatic]

Please don't sugar-coat things, let us know how you REALLY feel.

 

I would much rather be known as someone who is blatantly honest than someone who gives false sentiments they do not believe in.

 

It's possible that you came LOOKING for a fight and succeeded.

 

I guess I just wasn't expecting such bigotry.

 

Honestly, your opinions and commentary regarding my life, and my family, and myvalues mean little or nothing to me, because you know nothing about either me or my family, beyond your paradigm.

 

That is a very interesting statement you made... and one that I had hoped you would have given. How did it feel to have me talk about you in that way? To say those things?

 

I have read several of your responses to other people and time and time again you tell these people what they should and shouldn't be doing, how wrong what they are doing is and that they don't have a clue about their own lives due to their age.

 

Now here you are saying that I know nothing about you and thus what I say means nothing to you... does that mean you are a hypocrit? Is it ok for you to tell other people that their age makes them sub-human? Yet someone points out somem things to you and its the "you don't know me!" response? Most extremely young children give responses like "you don't know me".

 

 

Hopefully now you realise that just as I have absolutely no clue about you or your life and that my assessments are "wrong"... your opinions and ideas about what other people should be doing is JUST as flawed. Maybe now you wont be so quick to judge other people.... I doubt it though, I am sure you have some how managed to rectify it in your mind that I am wrong, you are right and that you are justified in dictating what age is considered "old enough", and what magical age gap is considered "feasible"

 

Pehaps this entire story of a seventeen year old girlfriend is nothing but

fiction, and is just a means to entertain yourself.

 

Interesting assessment, I guess I could also brainstorm the possibilities that you are not a father and don't in fact have children.

 

But to reduce everything I have said to a means of entertainment I think only shows your contempt for anyone besides yourself.

 

At this point it's unimportant, because I could make the comment 'the sky is blue' and I'm sure you would take exception to it, and rebuke me in excruciating detail.

 

I only rebuke what needs rebuking, I agree with what needs agreeing. That you have taken the view that I am automatically going to take the opposite view to you means that you have internally labelled me as being irrational with some ulterior motive. Once again you show your ability to judge people... and always they are in the wrong.

 

Are you ever in the wrong?

 

Or is that the "father" in you coming out?

 

If you're looking for a victory in a battle of wills, congratulations, you win.

That and a quarter will get you a gumball.

 

The only "victory" I am looking for is to pry your eyes open enough and soon enough so that you do not damage the lives of your own children.

 

Now you can consider that a lie if you will and you can ignore it also (which you probably are)... but think on this... If you even remotely consider fatherhood to be a serious responsibility, can you afford to ignore everything I have said out of hand with out at least having an internalization to see if

there is at least SOME truth in what I have said?

 

If I fail to take your assessments of me and self-analyse myself to determine if there is truth in what you say then I only hurt myself, my girlfriend leaves and has her family for support and nobody but myself loses.

 

If however YOU fail to self-analyse, then your family suffers, your

children suffer... and all because you were to "man" enough to even

consider that there may be some truth to it.

 

Are you willing to risk the lives of your children on that?

 

Do they mean so little to you that you wouldn't have a good, hard and long look at yourself just to re-affirm your beliefs and ideals?

 

I'm not asking for a miracle, but if there is even 1/10th of what I think I see in you then your children will one day hate you and they will suffer as a result of your domination over them.

 

How about thinking of THEM and not yourself?

[Rapture]

I am very sickened by the attitude of people concerning age gap relationships. I have read many of these articles concerning age gap relationships and too often there are ignorant people using terms like "cradle-robber". I am a 16 year old girl, and i was recently dating a 25 year old, i had to put up with this so much, it wore me down to the point where we had to break it off. Not that i wanted to, but that the ignorance of everyone around us was breaking me down emotionally, i felt like i was doing something wrong, that i am a silly CHILD being taken advantage of by the person i love and care about. Of course i knew this wasn't true, but i care for him so much i didn't want him to have to put up with society's ignorance about are relationship.

After recently sitting back and thinking about the whole situaton, i realize that i could never be happy with someone my own age, this is for many reasons. So basically what society is saying is that, someone who is in an age gap relationship, can not have a stable, happy, and noble bond?

i'd like to hear people's thoughts on this...