I really need some perspective. Seriously...

[blender]

Batya33,

 

I have so much respect for your choice, but may I say, I'm one of those people that when someone's heart is broken, I think the phrase "he's just not that into you".. can be so painful.. (I know that is not your intention, you are obviously a caring, wise and kind person, it's just "my" thing about that phrase, I find it "hurtful" and no need for it.. you know what I mean?

 

because the fact is, even with your ex, it's NOT about whether he was "into you or not into you".. he's not "fully emotionally respsonsible within HIMSELF"... so I just think it's best to not take a guys "running away" personally.. especially if it his "pattern' before you.. it will be so after you, and he will be "into" no one but HIMSELF...in the long run.

 

Right? It's not about "who" he's with..(with your ex as an example): he's still choosing to behave in a disrespectful way towards women, (you, his wife) and I'm sure he's "into his wife", right? He married her.

 

but no one, no woman can cure him of himself... or he wouldn't be emailing his ex..or exes.. who knows.. thank god you pressed delete, your a woman of standards, values and class.

 

But I gotta tell you the last thing I wanted to hear when my heart was broken was "he's just not into you".. you know why I hated hearing it, because it was like an unjust blow to my self esteem... so for anyone who's heart is broken right now, don't even think about whether the guys "into you or not"... just be INTO YOURSELF, take care of you....and let him run away..run right into "himself"...

[caro33]

I agree blender that the "he's just not that into you" statement can come accross badly, and particularly given so many people say it now it may have lost some meaning. I also struggled to cope with hearing it when hurt. And you raise a good point that it's not just about them and you, it's about them and what they value in themselves and others generally.

 

However I am not keen to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Many people need to come to the realisation that the other person is not choosing them. Even the ones who don't value themselves/others as we might think they should still choose Person A over Person B. The not chosen one, or Person B, still needs to come to the conclusion that for whatever reason, the other person does not share their feelings. I think people get so tied up in trying to understand the deep and meaningful reasons why someone left them that they prolong their own pain. Sometimes it's just the simplest thing they ignore - "for whatever reason, he/she felt differently to me".

 

I'm not saying the hurt person should internalise the fact that the other didn't choose them and blame themselves, and I know hurt people do tend to do that. But it's a bandaid that kind of needs to be ripped off in my view. Not harshly or cruelly but in an objective and non-judgemental way. Sometimes people just don't feel the same way. I'm not sure that seeing all breakups as a deep flaw in the person who left us is entirely constructive.

[Batya33]

I can respect that some people would not deal well with the personal "he's just not that into you." For whatever reason, I was able to deal with it the last few times it happened even though I was "smitten." For me, I heal by being honest with myself and if the honest truth is that I just didn't do it for him then I need to accept that. One reason is because the alternative - rationalizing that it was him is unacceptable for two reasons: first, if I still hear about him through the grapevine how will I feel to learn that mr. 'commitment phobe" in quotes is now madly in love and engaged to someone else? (there also was a great sex and the city episode about that) Or, what if it leads me down a path of being cynical about men as in "well he obviously is a loser because he didn't want me!" Just isn't effective or productive for me.

 

Also, when I sense that someone is not that into me by his behavior, I react by distancing myself - physically and emotionally - so that if it ends, I am not as upset.

Finally, I do not buy that just because a man is not that into me that there is something wrong with him. Why should I presume that? Is there something wrong with me because I have rejected men I thought were nice and good people but just didn't feel that spark for? I doubt that. It's as simple as that - at least to me. I guess I don't take it as personally because chemistry, spark, that connection - can be kind of elusive and there can be no good explanation why after a few months that spark is gone - so it's not that I presume I did something wrong or that there is something wrong with me - it's just that I don't do it for him.

 

 

Now, I would never (ever!) tell a friend who's heart is broken "well he just wasn't that into you" - this is a personal thing I do for myself only. For friends, I listen, I am supportive and if they wish to rationalize that's fine - it's their choice. No reason for me to interject my opinion on "what happened."

[blender]

yes, I get what you are saying, I just know when I first came on this site and my heart was "feeling" broken, (of course the "fact" was my heart was going to be fine in the long run).. but in those moments of deep heartache, the last thing I wanted to hear was "he's just not that into you".. and I know Batya, you wouldn't say this to a heartbroken friend, and that you are saying this is something you would say to yourself, I get it..totally get it... but if your'e like me I consider most of the people asking for advice on this site as "friends" in some way.. you know what I mean?

 

And yes it's important to 'be honest with yourself" but you can even do so in a self loving way.. and instead of saying "he's just not into me".. say to yourself: I'm not "into any person" who is not willing to make an intentional effort to be in my life in a respectful, sincere, honest, loving, committed way.. and it's time to let go, move on, starting with acceptance and then healing...

[Batya33]

But if I said that to myself I would be lying and rationalizing. Often I've wanted people who haven't wanted me- I have had crushes, asked men out who weren't into me, etc. It's a fact of life for me to want certain people to be my friends or romantic partners who do not want me and that I remain into people - for a time - who have rejected me. What I do instead is to accept that feeling and know that because I have reasonable self esteem, the hurt/disappointment will subside in time and meanwhile I distract myself with activities, friends, etc.

 

If I lied to myself and "tried" to get myself to believe I really didn't want them, that would take me a much longer time because it takes a lot of effort and causes me tension to rationalize away my feelings. While I wouldn't tell a friend "he just was not that into you" nor would I try to convince a friend that she is not into him because why should she be since he didn't treat her properly. I would assume that friend would feel patronized by me.

[blender]

I guess we "agree" in a sense overall.. and I'm not saying a person couldn't be "into a person" as far as 'attraction" goes, but as far as "self respect" goes, I try to remind anyone that your "energy of thought" is better put to people who are making an intentional sincere effort to share your life..as a friend, or in a "relationship".

 

And even if you are "attracted" to the person, if they are not making an intentional effort to be in your life in any way, then you wouldn't want to in a self respecting sense "want" to be "with that person"..

 

I guess it's the same as "wanting" to go to a party you are NOT invited to.. yes you still might "want" to go, but wouldn't feel good about yourself going if you were not invited...so you wouldn't make a choice to "go there".. I guess that's what I mean... and this is what I was saying to "EMPATHY" the OP of this thread..

 

I think we agree, it's just fun to discuss it, right? Different perspectives on the same thought.

[Batya33]

Your approach seems to be an attempt to thought control and to rationalize. I believe in letting the thoughts and feelings come and maintaining health and balance by doing distracting things - calling a friend (but not to talk about "him"), baking cookies, going to the gym, etc- not allowing yourself to wallow in a pity party but not rationalizing either.

 

When I am rejected there are times I have taken it personally, felt bad about myself and I don't pressure myself to believe "well, since of course I respect myself I shouldn't "want" to be with someone who doesn't want me!"

 

Hogwash. At that moment, I do want to be with someone who doesn't want me, and whether that means that at that moment my self esteem is not at a great level, well that's normal when there's a blow to your ego - a job you don't get, a man who doesn't call, a party invitation that doesn't come. Now, I will not call the man and beg him to take me back or do anything of the sort, but I don't try to repress the hurt feelings either.

 

But since I know that I will get better and heal in a reasonable amount of time - I will bounce back - I feel fine about letting myself wallow for awhile because I know that I will be back out there dating again in a reasonable amount of time. Later on, sure I might in hindsight realize "of course I don't want someone who doesn't want me!" but what truly empowers me is allowing myself to feel hurt, disappointed, whatever, and trust that I will bounce back and that I will make sure I take care of myself properly so that I do. And that is done by making sure my life is fun, fulfilling and rich so that if some man rejects me, the pity party is a blip on the radar.

 

It wouldn't help a whit, when I have been rejected to say "well I know I want him but I shouldn't because obviously if he didn't want me then my self respect dictates that I shouldn't want him so I just won't even think about wanting him!" Just doesn't work for me and you know what - I'm glad it doesn't - I'm glad I'm strong enough to accept rejection and strong enough to let myself have the pity party feeling secure that "this too shall pass."

 

I cannot stand women who react to rejection with "what a jerk!" just because the "jerk" that they chose to sleep with after knowing him for one night and knowing it was casual/no strings decided not to call again. Why is he a jerk if he never promised it would be more than a booty call? Those are the women who start down the path of "all men are jerks" instead of experiencing the hurt which in turn might make then think twice about having casual sex given their apparent emotional attachment through sex.

[blender]

yes, yes, I understand, and I've been in the "wanting someone who doesn't want me" as well.. many times.. and we always have to look at our own part in a break up.. so yes I agree, and by all means, I'm not the "the guys a jerk" type, I really believe there is two sides to the "feelings"... and both are valid...

 

so I'm not into "hey let's rationalize my feelings away".. I get what you're saying there, I'm talking about after the "dust settles over a broken heart".. it all turns out to have happened for a reason, and I guess too many times I've taken all the "issues" onto myself, thinking it was all my fault etc.. so I've learned as you have, that soon enough our hearts do heal... it has, it does, it will... ahh broken hearts... at least that painful ache reminds you you're VERY alive....and makes you appreicate the joys of life so much more as well...

 

As far as the women agreeing to a booty call, well that's never been my style, but I know what you're saying about the ones who jump into bed right away and then are shocked that the guy doesn't take them seriously, but in those terms I think both the guy and the girl.. are not being honest with themselves..or each other, before, during or after....

 

and you are SO RIGHT about the "emotional attachment" through "sex"..especially for women.. it's just our nature.. and so it's wise to be self respecting enough to understand, your heart, mind and body are precious and you should treat them as such.. or no one else will.

[Batya33]

Ahh - ok. I don't typically blame myself for a break up where the reason was he just wasn't that into me. I will consider that and consider whether I could have done anything differently.

 

As far as one night stands/casual flings - where the woman thinks the man is a jerk because he made no promises of a relationship, etc, she agrees to sleep with him and then calls him a jerk for acting consistently with the "no strings" I don't see where the man is being dishonest with himself or her at all. He honestly presented the situation as no strings attached sex, I presume he was honest with himself for not wanting a relationship with the woman in question -- it's only the woman who deceives herself in that situation by pretending to be OK with that arrangement.

[caro33]

I think what is missing for me blender is that the "he's just not into you" statement, or an alternative statement like the one I mentioned before of "he/she feels differently to me" is not a statement about the failings of either person. It is not saying that the person who wanted the relationship is a loser who made mistakes, and it's not stating that the person who didn't want the relationship is lacking in respect for themselves or their partner. Now maybe those issues do occur, as they do in many relationships, but they are additional baggage to the basic statement of fact of "we feel differently".

 

In your own conception of how one must not blame oneself and why spend time wanting to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you, you have actually already accepted the "we feel differently" issue; you're at the next point of rationalising and managing ego, which certainly needs to be done.

 

You couldn't possibly start that process unless you had already realised the relationship wasn't to be, for whatever reason, and the two parties feel differently. You can't jump that realisation. To my mind, that's all we're talking about here. "He's just not that into you" can be overused and it can be expressed brutally, but the concept is just one of different wants and feelings. It's the one realisation anyone dealing with the end of a relationship has to have, and to come to terms with in order to move on. It would seem that it's the people who have not accepted that who continue to pine for the other, to create opportunities for hopeless reconciliation attempts etc.

 

blender, you said yourself in your first sentence of your first post to this thread "Just hear him clearly, he's said that for right now he does not 'feel the same way for you'". Isn't that sentiment all we're talking about here?

[blender]

yep, you are correct. I guess what I could say in a lot fewer words, is that: when our hearts are first broken it's so difficult to hear, "he's just not that into you".. When the book came out, I thought it was such a negative way to say it, (yes, it may be realistic) but ugh.. when your heart is aching it doesn't help to hear it.. because you will realize soon enough if the relationship is really over or not..but at first it's important to be kind to yourself, your heart, and yeah your ego, until you can "get into" that "acceptance phase".. you know what I mean?

 

I hope some of this is helping the OP...

[Batya33]

yep, you are correct. I guess what I could say in a lot fewer words, is that: when our hearts are first broken it's so difficult to hear, "he's just not that into you".. When the book came out, I thought it was such a negative way to say it, (yes, it may be realistic) but ugh.. when your heart is aching it doesn't help to hear it.. because you will realize soon enough if the relationship is really over or not..but at first it's important to be kind to yourself, your heart, and yeah your ego, until you can "get into" that "acceptance phase".. you know what I mean?

 

I hope some of this is helping the OP...

 

For me, I can hear it in the beginning because at least where it's happened to me I have been very attuned to the signs before the break up - (and attune to the signs in others' relationships except I knew they wouldn't want to hear it) so I was able to distance myself.

 

The only time I was blindsided was 27 years ago in high school - he broke my heart - we dated about one month. Well, sure felt that way back then and in 1980 there was no such book to help me ;-). Over a decade later, we ended up working for the same company . ....