Commercial fears...

[Unhumble]

...like "Fear of public speaking"?

 

OK. I'm aware that all people in the world are different, are differently influenced, are differently talented, and thus have their own different strengths and weaknesses.

 

But when looking around in bookstores I sometimes have the feeling that psychology (or at least, the popular psychology industry, those with self-help books and success coaches) invents psychological disorders: Anxieties, fears, etc. for the sake of keeping the industry alive.

 

And when people read that stuff and buy it, when there's gossip about the existence of such "fears"... people are actually more prone to think that they have/had/will have it, as well.

 

In my personal experience, I've often noticed that whenever I read or hear about a condition... or hear about it on TV...

I get the symptoms of it the next time circumstances are favorable to the establishment of that fear! And then I tell myself: "Oh, that's the thing I read about! I have it as well!"

Luckily I am still sane enough to realize that it's BS and trash it away.

 

Now, throughout my short life I've often been on the stage to entertain audiences, to present projects, to do whatever... and I never had any "fear of public speaking" (not even after reading about it... but I must admit that I was tempted to try it out!).

And honestly, I didn't even know there was such a thing called "public speaking". I first thought it was an expression to make children's first theatrical performance more exciting.

But when I saw books about "fear of public speaking" for adults... I was once again like "o-brave-new-world".

 

This is obviously just an opinion.

 

But let me express a very extreme question...

What if most modern [negative] psychological conditions are actually created by an industry that gets rich by helping people to solve them?

 

Do you think you have a non-rational fear like "fear of public speaking"?

 

Then do this next time you must speak:

Realize that you've been cheated by the industry.

There's no such thing as "public speaking". Just go on-stage and say what you have to say, like the child you used to be would have done had she/he not been corrupted by the beliefs of society...

 

Sorry if the tone of my post was a bit "rant-ish"... I really see too many crazy things that cause useless pain to the world, and distract people from real problems, such as war, poverty and crisis.

[Parsley]

You know what...I may try and try that. I *love* singing and playing the guitar, but shake like a jelly at the mere thought of doing it in public, in front of...you know...like...people...who can see me. And JUDGE me. Even karaoke screws me up for a day. But I like the idea of reverting back to your childhood state of not giving a toss...the times when you wandered up to people, hoiked up your dress and said "Do you like my pants?"

 

I know my two main fears were caused by the media. Sharks (clearly jaws. Now when people even mention sharks, my legs feel weird and I have to sit on them) and bridges. Bridges because of that clip of a bridge being tossed about like a bit of string the wind. Now I have no faith in those particular structures whatsoever.

[melrich]

A survey I saw on this topic found more people feared public speaking than death.

 

thereforeeee most people would rather be in the coffin than giving the eulogy!!!!

[caro33]

Yes, I saw that survey: damning isn't it?

 

And yes Unhumble, I agree there's a bit of an industry issue here, with disorders to order based on where "experts" see profits.

 

But sometimes these disorders/phobias etc are just naming what still existed for people. I have no doubt that there is such a thing as fear of public speaking, because I have it. It was not created by an industry, it was created by my history, my personality, my genetics etc. My heart pounds in my throat, my voice quavers and I go bright red. My memory goes blank. And then that fear feeds the future fears: "oh no I can't get up an speak at that conference because my heart will race, my voice will quaver etc".

 

I also developed a fear of stairs in my 20s, after many nightmares of freaky staircases with gaps and no handles based on the stairs at my school. I now get vertigo when going down flights of stairs. Arrgh, and how stupid. I wonder if there is some dumb word for it... actually there is, I googled it: check this out - link removed

[annie24]

ha. I had fears and anxieties far before I knew ANYTHING about psychology or psychiatry or anything!!!! No, I don't think that they are made up at all, or that modern medicine influences us to have these fears. I do think the news media contributes though.... with world wide coverage anytime there is a plane crash or terrorist bombing, but how many people do you know who have been killed crossing the street or driving to the grocery store? Plenty. but you don't see that on the TV all the time.... (like many people, I have a fear of flying and slight claustrophobia, but I don't have a fear of being in a car or crossing the street, similar to many people)

 

80,000 people a year in the US die of infections they acquired at the hospital (not anything they walked in with!) but everyday, people go to the hospital for minor things. I think the media influences what we fear.

[caro33]

I think the media influences what we fear.

 

Agree, and we are living very much in a fear environment these days, particularly in the US it seems. You guys are being told you are on alert, and fighting a war against an unseen and unquantifiable force. This stuff has an effect, as does all the information the media provides about crime, sickness etc. The various cancer causing agents in everything we consume, the industries that poison our homes and parks. And what about the gazillion crime programmes about serial killers - if there were that many serial killers we'd have no young women left at all.

 

I think this environment of fear helps nurture different people's coping - or non-coping - mechanisms; it brings out the worst in people and their means of expressing fear and control over their environments. So from a person's irrational fear of frogs or clowns to my stupid fear of stairs, these are the individuals' means of symbolising what is scary to them and making it tangible and controllable.

 

Other cultural expectations also have a role, my issues are more around social anxiety. My fear of speaking in public is very powerfully rooted in school experiences and judgements of those around me at the time. Mixed in with my pre-existing introversion, I now have a real hatred for being the centre of attention in any way, particularly physically.

 

I do dislike the medicalisation of what are many people's individual foibles and issues though. I think in some cases it is used to validate a fear or 'treat' something which may be in fact a milder anxiety issue that could be helped in a less interventionist way. But I don't really know.

[annie24]

hm... I have been to therapy for one of my fears (flying). They never were like, 'it's ok to be scared....' the focus of the therapy was to teach me relaxation methods and breathing techniques. they were definitely there to help me address the fear, not to sweep it under the rug...

[caro33]

hm... I have been to therapy for one of my fears (flying). They never were like, 'it's ok to be scared....' the focus of the therapy was to teach me relaxation methods and breathing techniques. they were definitely there to help me address the fear, not to sweep it under the rug...

 

For sure, and I was not meaning to say all techniques were bad. I also have a close friend who was hypnotised and it actually cured an intense fear of flying that he had.

 

I guess I was thinking more back to examples I remember learning about at Uni where there were sad, lonely people who were exploited by psychiatrists, people who had their fears built up and validated in order for them to then be "cured" in an expensive way. But by no means would I characterise this as the norm.

 

I also think that some people take comfort from diagnoses, so they don't need to try and improve their outlook. They feel important and validated that they suffer from "...". But they are not the norm either, just the people who I remembered because they bugged me .

[annie24]

hm. I see your point. I have seen several therapists/counselors/psychiatrists and none of them were like, "oh, you are just ill, it's ok." All of them tried to help push me in the right direction and make changes to my situation. so for that I appreciate them. But you really have to be the one driving the progress, no one will do it for you. if you don't want to change and make your situation better, they certainly can't do it for you.

[caro33]

hm. I see your point. I have seen several therapists/counselors/psychiatrists and none of them were like, "oh, you are just ill, it's ok." All of them tried to help push me in the right direction and make changes to my situation. so for that I appreciate them. But you really have to be the one driving the progress, no one will do it for you. if you don't want to change and make your situation better, they certainly can't do it for you.

 

Absolutely. The counsellor types I have seen have also been pretty down to earth and able to help. No jargon or what I described above. I think the exceptions just took root in my mind.

 

And Unhumble, let's not forget that some fears are eminently sensible, and many of these sensible ones may be at the root of the less obviously sensible ones. We are not supposed to risk ourselves in some of the ways we are now expected to on a daily basis - it's not like we've evolved much from the humans of a few thousand years ago.

 

It's not like we survived all those millennia by choosing to jump off cliffs or ride mammoths for fun. And if that frog is poisonous, you stay away. The clown may have rabies etc. Maybe it's all just our primal selves asserting ourselves, but in some cases it gets warped.

[Unhumble]

From another point of view (called "laissez-faire economics"), this industry might as well be positive for the greater good of society. As long as people want to buy that stuff, it's okay since it makes money circulate and satisfies people's needs

 

I also know counselors from different fields (coaching, hypnotherapy, etc.) and some of them are even my relatives. I have an aunt who earns like 200 bucks per hour curing people's mental distress and other conditions with some therapies. And she has a large base of clients... (usually, very rich business people)

 

caro and annie, I can also imagine that they act professionally and take care seriously. Many of those people genuinely believe in what they do.

And the solutions work, depending on the people's attitude as annie already pointed out.

 

What I meant to say is that some of these fears are taken seriously... for the sake of making them appear serious.

 

For example, caro, what if your first experiences of "public speaking fear" had just been exciting, and you had a strong feedback (maybe negative in the first times?).

And maybe you generalized the first experiences since you had already heard about the existence of "public speaking fear"?

Try to think of how would you have behaved if you had never heard the expression "public speaking fear".

Do you think you would have naturally grown out of that first experience?

 

annie, may I know which were the fears you had before even knowing that they were "fears"? And I suppose your fear of flying actually belongs to the media-infuenced fears?

 

caro, although physically we haven't changed much from what we were some thousands of years ago, our willpower, our mentality and attitudes evolve at a very steep learning curve - the nice thing is: we (as both collective culture and as individuals) are the ones driving this part of evolution.

 

And, caro, do you personally care so much about maintaining your evolutionary heritage of fears?

 

Another question to all of you:

Do you perceive these irrational fears as an addition to your emotions/skills or a lack of your emotions/skills?

 

Edit:

Another way I would express my point would be that knowing the existence of a "fear", and identifying one's feelings with such fear, will interfere with the otherwise spontaneous sense of "flow" in people. ( link removed )

That means you might have grown out of a fear more naturally through you own experience if you hadn't categorized those initial feelings as... fears.

[Parsley]

I think that for some, fears such as public speaking, can be influenced by the media. I mean..plenty of people see a documentary about illnesses and think they have it don't they? I was recently reading a magazine that had had an article about men who 'feed' their girlfriends, a kind of fetish thing, and how dangerous it was. There was a letter from someone saying they thought their best friend's boyfriend was one of these people - after reading the article. I'm fairly certain the poor guy wasn't - the friend probably just disliked him anyway, and there were enough similarities to prompt her to think that he was one of these people.

 

Surely there can be something like this with regards to phobias?

 

I think most people's phobias with speaking are more socially influenced though...by experiences as a child. As you said, when you're a child you have no inhibitions about anything at all...they're all learned. Maybe phobias are a 'nurture' thing...your parents were anxious about speaking in public and you pick up on it? Maybe it stems more from the onset of teenage hormones. When you're in secondary school, if you're not one of the popular crowd, you are definitely going to be anxious about standing up in front of people. I always was. I went to a drama group for 5 years, which you would think would help, and I guess it did slightly, but in some ways it got worse. The way it was there, it was very obvious who the favoured people were, and they were very much up themselves, and if you weren't one of them, even the tiniest thing felt like it was under a lot more scrutiny. I also had singing lessons for 3 years, I could sing like I really wanted to, without worrying only when I was in the solo lesson...as soon as I left those confines, where I knew the teacher was listening to help me...anything I learned was down the drain until the next week.

[caro33]

Re my "public speaking fear", Unhumble I think that you need to understand that I am not taking something mild and ephemeral and making it real by calling it something. I did not go through life identifying with a label, I went through life sh*tscared of speaking in front of my peers.

 

I cannot remember not being like that. I assume when I was very little I was more outgoing, but the thing is, I was not raised around kids my age, and I felt different, and judged early on. Fine with adults, but terrified of children. So any notion of speaking in a play or in assembly, or giving a talk, put fear in my heart. Even now, after tutoring classes for Uni, giving talks, running workshops etc, even though I love pontificating and sharing my view, I hate people looking at me. I have to talk myself around. I am dreading the day I am asked to speak at a major conference - that day is not far away, I think my boss might start handing down some of his conference speaking duties soon.

 

And as I also said earlier, of course I am continuing to create my own fear. My fear is now not of people being cruel to me for what I am saying, but of being judged and stuffing up because I stumble. I stumble because my heart is racing, I am embarrassed about being redfaced etc. Actually, the thing is the rush of adrenalin: I get a massive adrenalin dump before I am to speak - it kicks in the second I start to think "hey I've got to/want to say something". The effects of this make my mind go blank. So I am not afraid of being jeered; there is no point imagining people naked etc. My fear is of looking stupid in front of my peers because my body lets me down.

 

Now I want to be clear; this is not that big a deal to me. I am old enough and confident enough to know now that some of the judgements my inner-me is afraid of just won't happen. That the people judging me are mostly thicker than me and also have their own issues. They probably don't care. I am just describing the situation because you asked me to.

 

I do agree that the industry can create the label and then some people feel more comfortable etc by identifying with it. I mentioned that earlier. But that is not a general rule.

 

Unhumble, is there not something of some sort that makes you deeply uncomfortable for no specifically rational reason? We all have our past experience, our brain wiring issues.

 

(By the way, this "laissez faire economics" you speak of - Unhumble, you might be surprised how many of the people here trained in economics or psychology of some sort. We're somewhat overqualified in this area.)

[caro33]

caro, although physically we haven't changed much from what we were some thousands of years ago, our willpower, our mentality and attitudes evolve at a very steep learning curve - the nice thing is: we (as both collective culture and as individuals) are the ones driving this part of evolution.

 

And, caro, do you personally care so much about maintaining your evolutionary heritage of fears?

 

Sure, but the point is still valid. And no, I do not personally care about maintaining fears historic to the species. But this process is not necessarily conscious.

 

As a species we have evolved with certain fears embedded because they made sense. I think it's quite possible, and even expected, that some of today's wacky phobias have a root in the same parts of the brain that used to switch on to say "don't pat the sabre tooth tiger", "don't play in the lightning", "don't lick the fluorescent frog". It just got tangled because of the challenges of modern life, people's own reinforcement of fears/anxieties, a need for control etc...

[Unhumble]

Errrr... Do really so many thoughts cross your mind when you have to say something to an audience?

 

I mean: I might be wrong, but it's appears as if you're thinking more about yourself rather than focusing on the people or on the thing you are supposed to do.

 

Maybe you (or the media, or both) have created this idea that "public speaking" is a "personal challenge" (I recently heard that at some american universities, there are even public speaking contests! Oh dear!), or some big, important event.

 

What if, instead of thinking of it as "public speaking" or something so grossly important, you just focus on the reason you are speaking to an audience? Everything else will follow naturally!

 

e.g. I must promote a donation initiative to the audience after a theater performance. I simply walk there, make the people hush and tell them what must be said... well obviously if you pay a bit attention to the way you speak, you might get better results for the donation

But what I'm trying to suggest is: focus on the objective, not on yourself.

 

Unhumble, is there not something of some sort that makes you deeply uncomfortable for no specifically rational reason? We all have our past experience, our brain wiring issues.

 

I'll let you know when I find out...

I'm not saying I'm a daredevil, but that if I found out that hard-wired, unconscious irrational fears affect me as well, I would personally chose not to care about them... or do my best not to base my decisions and actions on them.

 

From a logical point of view of emotions though, I think that the mere fact of knowing that a certain fear is "just irrational/hardwired" should be enough to relax a person and vanquish the fear...

 

(By the way, this "laissez faire economics" you speak of - Unhumble, you might be surprised how many of the people here trained in economics or psychology of some sort. We're somewhat overqualified in this area.)

 

No wonder, haha I think I can ask a few more questions here then.

 

What would economics say if we got rid of all "commercial fears" of the world?