So how much does a guys looks really matter to a girl?

[Its_B]

Looks matter to a certain extent, I mean lets face it, when you first see someone you never hear "Look at the brains on the one!" Looks attract, but personality keeps. I prefer a good sense of humor over a good set of abs any day. You can be the hottest thing under the sun and still be a complete jerk. I have also found that guys I was not attracted to right away became incredibly sexy to me after I got to know them. And besides, looks fade away eventually. Your character is what really matters.

[Stinkweed]

Grokker, what you just wrote was.... pure GENIOUS. But I think that especially recently I've been noticing that the male rating system is becoming less and less universal man. Well it's what I think at least. And I can totally relate man with what you described about the girls. It's like if a girl who could be a "7" or above starts acting funny around me and staring and smiling, well you'll need a spatula to help me put myself together. And I just can't believe it sometimes, hehe. Which is another one of the reasons I messed up, especially recently man...

[CaptainPlanet]

But I only pick up hot ones.

[Stinkweed]

But I only pick up hot ones.

 

Cool. Good for you. That way all the women's efforts to look good won't be in vain.

[CaptainPlanet]

I was kidding

[Stinkweed]

I was kidding

 

I know. I just didn't see what your point was.

[Miss M]

Wowie Grokker, I agree with Stinkweed, that's an outstanding post, (and not just because you paid me such a nice compliment [VERY BIG GRIN]). Yes, those are all very excellent points you've made.

 

I mean, I'm totally falling for Miss M here just from her posts... and for all I know she looks like a chihuahua with glasses on . The personality coming through is far, far more important... to me anyway.

Okay, now YOU just made MY day. ['NOTHER VERY BIG GRIN] ... Aw, I was walking around the mall today, wondering why I've had such rotten luck with men, so many previous encounters with "Mr. Wrong"... and I was trying not to be down on myself, but still thinking the "failures" must be a negative reflection of me. [sob, sniff] So yeah, your kind comments help a lot. Thanks. (Incidentally, I don't think I really look like a "chihuahua with glasses," but dang, I wouldn't mind so much if I did look adorable in that same quirky-perky way. [wink]

 

It's like if a girl who could be a "7" or above starts acting funny around me and staring and smiling, well you'll need a spatula to help me put myself together. And I just can't believe it sometimes, hehe. Which is another one of the reasons I messed up, especially recently man...

And Stinkweed, I'll say it again... many girls choose guys based on what THEY like in a guy, not how they themselves look. For example, I look girly and soft, prissy, but I often drool over rough-looking burly guys with beards and scruffy work boots. And although I tend to not see myself accurately, I'm pretty sure I don't look scruffy, and certainly not bearded. And gosh, I sure don't want a prettied-up or "girly" guy who looks like me.... (but hey, I've also known some women who do like that sort of guy Besides, you seem to have a really nice personality, so maybe your nice looks combined with your nice personality is very appealing to her? Also consider, attractive women have LOTS and LOTS of unpleasant and tiresome encounters with jerks. So a different kind of guy really stands out from the crowd. Heck, she just might be "staring and smiling" because she considers YOU the prize.

[Stinkweed]

Well I never actually said that girls pick guys according to what they, themselves, look like. But it's just that these things catch me by surprise, so you still need that spatula, or maybe a vacuum... Worst part is I actually think they believe my reaction is a negative one, cause most of the time they just start avoiding looking at me if I don't do something like FAST... And believe me I'd love meaning all that to a girl, but even thinking that might be a remote possibility makes me even more nervous of blowing it up. Which is ironic cause not doing anything counts as blowing it up, and also: whatever I say shouldn't matter, cause if I were to carefully plan what to say so I don't blow it up... Well that's just not me, and I think if I were to go out with a girl, she'd like to know who the real ME is. I guess I'll try harder, as "uncomfortable" as it feels (by "uncomfortable" I don't really mean that, but more like I'm getting out there, you know? Like out of my "comfort zone").

[Grokker]

Carnatic, glad you identified.

 

Stinkweed, thanks, you're too kind.

 

I wasn't trying to say the Men's Physical Attractiveness Rating Scale was universal, exactly. It's more something like this:

 

Let's say you and I are checking out these two girls, A and B. You might say that A is a 4 and B is a 6. I might have slightly different standards, calling A a 3 and B a 7.

 

The point is, I think it would be very very unlikely (has never happened in my experience) that two guys would rate women in the opposite order... like, if you said A was significantly better looking than B and I said the other way round. Unless they are both very, very close (like 9 vs. 8.5) where finer shades of personal taste come into play.

 

For women, this isn't true at all. Two women checking out the two of us may have completely different opinions on which of us is more physically attractive than the other. And I mean *physically attractive* and not *better looking*... while the two things are almost the same from a man's point of view, they need not at all be, for women.

 

And the thing with the spatula... heck yeah! When a woman I consider hot looks at me that way, here's the thought ripping through my head like an electric current, freezing me in my tracks...

 

why is she looking at me, why is she doing that, does she think I'm hot, is she blind, can't she see right through me to the unworthy person I am inside, won't she definitely see that at some point if I make a move on her and we get together, so isn't it a waste of time to do anything about it anyway, and besides... if she gets with me and likes me enough to want to stay, maybe she is undeserving of me, because why would I want to be in any club that would have me as a member?

 

Something like that. Self-esteem, man. But I'm working on it.

 

Miss M:

 

I'm so glad if what I said made you feel better! You are very cool. Let me know about a week in advance if you're coming out East anytime... I'll stop shaving and break in a nice grungy pair of workboots

[Miss M]

Well I never actually said that girls pick guys according to what they, themselves, look like. But it's just that these things catch me by surprise, so you still need that spatula, or maybe a vacuum...

Okay, sorry, I was reading too much into what you wrote. Some guys here had written that if a girl is hot that's proof she wouldn't be interested in an average/ugly guy. But if that's not what you meant, then I'll save that "point" for someone else. But why does a girl who's a "7" do this to you? What's the correlation and logical explanation for your melt-down. I mean, if she's a "1-2" you don't have this problem, right? (and this is weird for me to rate women like this, geez

 

But I do understand the "melt-down" you're describing, because I can be relaxed, charming and outgoing when I'm not interested in a guy. But if I find him attractive, well I also freeze, or else turn into a bumbling/stumbling idiot. So yeah, I do get what you're saying. So what happens when both sides are simultaneously going into the same kinda freeze mode? Maybe something to think about?

 

And the thing with the spatula... heck yeah! When a woman I consider hot looks at me that way, here's the thought ripping through my head like an electric current, freezing me in my tracks...

 

why is she looking at me, why is she doing that, does she think I'm hot, is she blind, can't she see right through me to the unworthy person I am inside, won't she definitely see that at some point if I make a move on her and we get together, so isn't it a waste of time to do anything about it anyway, and besides... if she gets with me and likes me enough to want to stay, maybe she is undeserving of me, because why would I want to be in any club that would have me as a member?

Hey, this is exactly how a lot of those "hot" girls also feel. She might look good on the outside, but there is often a lot of negative commentary happening on the inside.

 

Miss M:

 

I'm so glad if what I said made you feel better! You are very cool. Let me know about a week in advance if you're coming out East anytime... I'll stop shaving and break in a nice grungy pair of workboots

LOL, Okay! (And you're cool too!) But to be honest, I promised a date to your fellow New Yorker, Kyoshiro Ogari... that I'd look him up if I ever get to New York. But gosh, you both are much too young... or I'm much too old... or sumpin...

 

But incidentally, I passed a few pairs of grungy workboots today, a handful of guys who were doing some work on a house, (tuckpointing, plumbing, landscaping) and we exchanged a little small-talk. Yeah, I had to laugh at the coincidence.

[Stinkweed]

But I do understand the "melt-down" you're describing, because I can be relaxed, charming and outgoing when I'm not interested in a guy. But if I find him attractive, well I also freeze, or else turn into a bumbling/stumbling idiot. So yeah, I do get what you're saying. So what happens when both sides are simultaneously going into the same kinda freeze mode? Maybe something to think about?

 

Oh yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about, the meltdown... And it's not only because she's a "7". I've talked to girls who could easily make that "7" or even better, but since I'm not interested, and it's just a platonic conversation, it's no problem to me.

[Miss M]

Well SW, lots of thoughts come about how to respond, but it might be going too far off topic? But just briefly, from your description I suspect she thought you were interested in her, and she was interested in you, and probably wondered why you weren't picking up on all her hints. Or maybe she just thought you loss interest, or that you were playing games? All that's just a guess, but those were my first thoughts. I could also tell you why I think she might have read it as rejection, (and also why she'd choose you over all the others) but probably better in a PM, or start another thread so we don't go even more off topic.

[timlondon]

It's not looks that matter - it's attraction - I've been unattracted to men who look like male models and attracted to men with objectively below average looks. I've never wanted to date a man with below average intelligence though or with a below average character/values.

 

*ding*

 

And there you have it in a nutshell. For men (largely) attraction = looks, for women attraction = (0.5x looks+ confidence + humour+ intelligence etc)

[timlondon]

Unless you can prove it is a fact it is nothing but your opinion.

 

Sorry it's called reporting bias

 

link removed

 

Shame I came into this thread so late

[Sheyda]

Sorry it's called reporting bias

 

link removed

 

Shame I came into this thread so late

 

Reporting bias is when your answer is affected by your memory and I don't think any women here are likely to forget how important a man's looks are to her in relation to other characteristics she wants in a partner.

[timlondon]

Reporting bias is when your answer is affected by your memory and I don't think any women here are likely to forget how important a man's looks are to her in relation to other characteristics she wants in a partner.

 

Rubbish. Look it up.

[Sheyda]

Rubbish. Look it up.

 

I already learnt it getting a diploma in psychology...

[timlondon]

I already learnt it getting a diploma in psychology...

 

Oooh. well done. I'm not going to willy-wave my qualifications.

 

link removed

 

Reporting bias really does include intentionally misleading surveys. Can we move on?

[Miss M]

Okay, this thing about the "survey" and "reporting bias" started because CaptainPlanet thought it was reasonable to advise other posters to disregard what the women in this thread were saying about our feelings.

 

So what if we just apply that "reporting bias" theory to CaptainPlanet's dismissal of women, and then call it even? 8)

[Sheyda]

Oooh. well done. I'm not going to willy-wave my qualifications.

 

I wasn't trying to boast. I just feel that the words I heard from a psychology professor's mouth are more valid than any internet article. You were also assuming I knew nothing at all even though I had described the same definition that you just posted in your link.

 

link removed

 

Reporting bias really does include intentionally misleading surveys. Can we move on?

I don't see where it says it includes intentionally misleading a survey unless you're talking about response bias. Even then, this most commonly occurs when the person formulating the questions writes them in a way that leads respondents to a particular answer. So unless Captain Planet is going to type a sentence about each percentage with some saying "I choose this percentage because I'm heartless and shallow" it's very rare that there will be any response bias.

 

This thread had already moved on past my "unless you can prove it, it's only your opinion" post until you quoted it several pages later. You could have just thought "Oh, that's wrong" and left it (since no one else had agreed or disagreed with it), but you responded that you thought that old post was incorrect even though the thread had already forgotten it and moved on to something else. If you don't want to debate with someone about something, don't bother posting a message telling them you disagree or think they're wrong.

[Carnatic]

Back on topic...

 

I think we were talking about how guys tend to have a much more homogenous ideal of the perfect woman, where women show more variety in their ideal man. Although both guys and girls probably put the same emphasis (about 50%ish) on looks.

 

I think the reasons for guys having a homogenous ideal woman is probably to do with magazines telling guys what the ideal is having a longer history than those aimed at girls. I don't think it's inherent in the male gender though.

 

The reason I say this is something I've realised recently... is that in my hometown, girls have a very homogenous image of the ideal guy. I'm considered very ugly there. The ideal guy is at least 6ft, heavily built with broad shoulders, like a rugby player or manual labourer with preferably one or two facial disfigurements like a scar caused by fighting/rugby etc., fashion wise, keeps his hair short and neat like a crew cut, wouldn't consider going out of a night unless in a tidy plain coloured shirt and smart black trousers; very masculine personality, simple interests, wants to be what you would call the one that wears the trousers in the relationship.

 

I'm probably completely the opposite of that, and until I moved away to go to uni, I thought that that was girls the world over... that I wasn't tall enough, macho enough, thinks too much, dressed like a student. The kind of guy that girls would say 'he's an alright guy but not a serious consideration for a relationship, I'm not attracted to him or anything'. When I went to uni I realised that guys like me were considered attractive there, and pretty much anywhere else. I only recently, (I'm back at home at the moment) noticed that moving from uni to home, I would be changing from a guy who a few girls do find attractive and who maybe has a chance of finding love, to a guy who might as well just find other things to do with his life.

 

Anyway, just wanted to make the point cos it seemed related to what we were discussing earlier about girls having varied opinions on what guys are attractive... it's not always true.

[Miss M]

I think the reasons for guys having a homogenous ideal woman is probably to do with magazines telling guys what the ideal is having a longer history than those aimed at girls. I don't think it's inherent in the male gender though.

I know the media influences us, but when it comes to the type of guy that excites and attracts me, a "magazine" simply doesn't have that much sway over my feelings towards a guy. I mean, best girlfriends can't even convince each other to like the same type of guys (and usually don't try). We often go in completely different directions than our friends, so a magazine certainly rates much lower than a best friend in influencing what I find appealing. Sometimes I find something inexplicably attractive about a guy, but I immediately know no one else will be able to get it except a select few. In fact I did that with a Cardinal baseball player over 20 years ago, drooled and swooned over him everytime I saw him on TV, but I didn't tell anyone because I knew they would think I was nuts. Then I later heard he had a fan club of women who drooled and swooned over him like idiots. He didn't understand, and neither did the media, but I did. He was inarguably "ugly" but there was just something about him that did it for me (and also for the women in his fan club).

[CaptainPlanet]

Okay, this thing about the "survey" and "reporting bias" started because CaptainPlanet thought it was reasonable to advise other posters to disregard what the women in this thread were saying about our feelings.

 

So what if we just apply that "reporting bias" theory to CaptainPlanet's dismissal of women, and then call it even? 8)

 

Did I start an argument, lol, I was just pointing out that just because a lot of people say something, doesn't always mean what they say is true.

 

You seem to have gotten all angry at poor cp. Poor poor cp, he just wants to be friends. Why do you judge poor cp.

 

I'll back down, I'll change my opinion. I think looks are a switch. It is either yes or no condition. Say attraction = x.sgfnhlkjgnfsjngjsfnglkjfsgns (million other variables), x is binary. You don't have looks, you don't have attraction, no point in anything else. At least from my point of view, I am 23 years old and I work at a petrol station. I don't know why that matters, it just does. Maybe it changes when you get older. I’ll be thirty soon, maybe my looks won’t matter so much then.

 

I have mentioned looks only as a matter of opinion. Yet, whenever it is brought up, people seem to take offense. I don't know why that is, it seems you resent the idea that you may be just as shallow as the rest of us (men).

 

Maybe there is some truth to it, I don't know. I only report what I see, clearly, it is not a popular view, unpopular views have been correct in the past.

 

I never dismissed all women, I simply said that I consider looks to be 90% of attraction, and I said that people lie in surveys, because it is a fact.

 

Perhaps I am jaded, my personality seems to be lacking, I never have much to say to women, unless; of course, they are beautiful.

 

In reality seriously, go to a bar, have a look at some married couples. Compatibility comes into it of course but in general, good looking people go with other good looking people! that is a fact !!

 

PLEASE DON'T HATE ME BECAUSE I AM GORGEOUS

[Miss M]

I was just pointing out that just because a lot of people say something, doesn't always mean what they say is true.

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read your comments about what 90% of women think and feel, that just because you say/write something, that doesn't mean what you say/write is true. In other words, that "reporting bias" theory works the same on all sides.

 

You seem to have gotten all angry at poor cp.

Angry?

And here's another example of you making up something that isn't really true. Again, you obviously can't say how someone else feels because you're not a mind-reader, so you should just stick to saying how YOU feel.

[Carnatic]

If looks are a binary factor... which I have to admit, it true in most cases, then it isn't the only binary factor... If personality is lacking then again there will be problems. I'm just glad that there isn't a universal standard for a good personality or looks, just a fairly universal bias.