Keeping emotions in check... my story... PART II

[enolaton]

Well guys... it doesn't seem to be working out. I tried maintaining a "friendship" with someone I truly care about (my ex), but it just doesn't seem to be going my way. We still talk occasionally, but the past always seems to be getting in the way. She called for my birthday last week, and that's when things started to come out. Not because I couldn't keep my emotions in check, but becuase there still appears to be hurt feelings on both sides. We spend hours on the phone, discussing how important it is to maintain a friendship, but I realize now, that it just doesn't seem very likely. She refuses to discuss her feelings about me or the subject, and she's not entitled too. To this day, she insists on being friends. I don't know what it is, but she can't seem to let go of the past, and constantly brings up things I did wrong. She tells me private things about herself, and when I promise to not say anything about it to anyone else, she tells me not to promise anything, becuase I've broken promises in the past.... THEN WHY TELL ME IN THE FIRST PLACE?

 

I came right out with it and said that we are not truly friends, becuase we don't see each other and barely speak. She tells me she's been home from uni for quite some time, and I haven't called her once to meet up. I've asked to meet up a few times in the early stages with always the same response. So I gave up and explained that to her. She tells me, that she has NO problem meeting up with me. A few days later, I call her to meet up, and she comes up with some lame excuse. I've put forth effort to maintain some sort of relationship, and have achieved minimal results. She always seems to revert back to her old ways, and it appears she hasn't changed in the least. She says the same about me. "Doesn't seem we'll ever grow up". I care for her, but I do not wish to reconcile, unless there are some major changes, which will most likely never happen. Thus, I just want to maintain some sort of a friendship with this person I care for very much. Yet, this doesn't seem possible anymore. I am done putting forth any effort, and if we never spoke again, I think that would finally allow all the hurt feeling to subside, and we might be better off. Granted, I know she is trying her best to not hurt me. But her best, and my best, don't seem to be good enough. I wish it didn't have to come to this. I wish I didn't have to move on with my life without this person I care for so much. She explained to me that she just doesn't think we would have worked out. I understand that, but then why insist on being friends while dating other guys? Just let me go if you love me.

 

I wish I knew why she acts this way. Why we can't just have a normal friendship. Why she always brings up the past. Why after all this time, she still wants to be friends, and yet, puts forth little effort other then a few phone calls. Why she refuses to divulge her feelings and what she went through when we broke up. Should I confront her? Should I just let it go and expect nothing from her? What should I do?

[Netguy]

To me, remaining "friends" means that there is no responsibility on either part anymore. Meaning that if all she does is give a few phone calls, then that's fine. To me, staying friends means that if one of you feels like chatting, you give the other a call. If they dont want to talk, that's fine. If you bump into each other in the supermarket, then you say hi and chat for a bit, and then walk away. You two dont want a friendship, it seems. You want your relationship back, but without the hurt feelings. That will take a lot of work.

There seem to be a lot of games going on. My advice is to be frank with her. Tell her exactly what you want from her and encourege her to do the same. If it turns out that you both want to go on with your lives, then it should be solved. If it turns out that you both want more than that, be ready to discuss what each of you needs to change to make that happen(and DO NOT take offense when a suggestion is made). Best of luck.

[Pikey1972]

enotalon, I'm so sorry to hear things don't seem to be working out...it sounds harsh (and predictable), but I would suggest you go NC - by the sounds of it, you've tried everything you possibly can to discuss matters with her, arrange meetings with her, tell her how you feel etc, etc, etc...she knows how you feel about her, yet appears to make little effort to actively discuss matters and comes up with excuses...it just sounds to me that she isn't willing to put as much effort into the relationship (or even friendship!) as you are.

 

Believe me, I can empathise with what you're saying (everything you wrote seems to relate to my situation ;-)!) - I too tried to maintain a friendship with my ex, but discovered after 4 months of LC that I was the one arranging most of our meetings, doing most of the e-mailing and calling etc...My ex said he wanted desperately to keep me as his friend, yet he won't put the effort in to sustain the friendship. So I decided in the end to do NC - I believe friendship is a two-way process, and if one party is putting in more of an effort than other, there's an imbalance...

 

Anyways, I digress...

 

Again, I think you've done EVERYTHING you possibly can to tell her how you feel...it sounds to me that she's just not interested....so I'd suggest giving her and - ABOVE ALL - giving yourself space to move on. It sounds like she wants a "friendship" on her terms, and her interpretation of a friendship is not the same as yours. Also, trying to remain friends with an ex while (secretly) hoping for more rarely works...

 

All the best,

 

Pikey

[rnorth]

I think if she ended it and wants to be friends, she would also not torture you with the past. If she ended it, nothing left is to be said unless she wants to talk about possibly starting again and thereforeeee working past the issues that brought about the termination of the relationship.

 

Obviously she is not over you or she wouldn't bring up these past hurts. But if she ended the relationship, there is no reason why you have to sit there and listen to her cut you down.

 

I am not certain that you want her back at this point. If you do, I would suggest not spending hours on the phone with her; cut the call short. Don't try and get a response that you want from her. And whatever you do, don't bring up the relationship or the breakup and DON'T GET DEFENSIVE WHEN SHE MENTIONS SOMETHING NEGATIVE THAT YOU DID.

 

Everytime that your conversations focus on the negative aspects of the relationship, it just reinforces her reasons for breaking up with you. Act like you haven't got a care in the world, even when she blames you for the breakup.

 

Please note; these last two paragraphs are suggested only if you want to get back together with her. A last a final tactic is to tell her that your conversations with her are going nowhere; she only belittles and continues to hurt you - not the actions of a friend - she should have made her peace when she dumped you; that there is nothing left to discuss if she is not interested in considering a new start. Then cease contact.

[Pikey1972]

Yes, that's pretty sound advice - I'd go along with rnorth's suggestion rather than going NC immediately (I went NC after I saw my ex's profile on a dating site - it's only then that I realised I couldn't handle friendship / hearing about his exploits...).

 

Creating clarity and establishing clear lines of communication are key issues here: and like rnorth says, don't let her belittle you!

 

If this fails, then go NC...

[enolaton]

Thank you for the advice guys. However, honestly, if she wanted to reconcile, she would make an effort to do so. She would WANT to see me and see where things lead. Granted, I've gotten defensive when she's brought up matters of the past, and that may have pushed her away. At this point, I don't need NC to heal. I've come to the conclusion that based on her actions, whether or not she has feelings for me, she just doesn't want to try again, or get hurt. I have since moved on from trying to get her back. I'm not saying I would turn it down if the opportunity presented itself, but that's not what I care about at this point. For one thing, I just want an explanation for her actions...

[keefy1972]

enolaton I have been following your other thread pretty closely and think I know where the problem lies. My situation is similar to yours and I have tried this same tactic and gotten led to the same result. We have become people where our actions contradict our words.

 

You said in the past that you wanted to be friends (words). Because she didn't share the enthusiasm you did for getting together, you expressed frustration over it (actions). Those are contradictory. I know you will defend your actions with the whole, "real friends want to see each other and spend time together" stuff. I know where you are coming from. Been there, done that, and wiped my butt with the tee-shirt.

 

I have begun a phase where I want to make sure my actions and words are saying the same thing. The problem with people trying to stay friends is that the dumpee is usually holding onto hope for reconcilliation. The dumper usually holds back a lot to avoid leading the dumpee on and causing further damage. Put those things together and you have yourself a powder keg of emotional turmoil.

[enolaton]

You bring up a good point Keefy. In any case, let's say she does have some feelings for me, but is just not willing to try again or risk getting hurt again. We don't speak that often, and we don't see each other... (even though she said she wouldn't mind seeing me, but turned me down when I asked to see her). However, is there any way to get her to talk about her feelings and to talk about the future without pressuring her. I've done it before with no results, but time has passed. We still manage to fight even though we're not even a couple. She brings up things that should have no bearing on a platonic friendship. I just want her to come out with her feelings. Is she afraid of getting hurt again? How can I get her to talk to me without pressure. Either tell me to leave you alone, or tell me that you want a friendship and put forth some effort. But, don't tell me you want a friendship, and not put forth the effort. Obviously, as it stands, with us still fighting over the past, she sees that things haven't really changed. What should I do?

 

P.S. And I know what some of you who know my story are thinking... but, no, I don't want to go the route of NC...

[saltwatergirl]

Is she afraid of getting hurt again? How can I get her to talk to me without pressure.

 

Yes and Take control of the conversation instead of letting it go round and round.

 

Memorize this statement:

"I know I've hurt you in the past. Right now, Im just trying to prove to you that you can trust me again. What can I do to help you?"

 

Here is an example/scenario.

 

Her: "I dont know why I bother, you never kept your promises anyway"...

 

You: "I know I've hurt you in the past. Right now Im jsut trying to prove to you that you can trust me again. What can I do to help you?"

 

Her: "I dont know why you want me to call, I always did before and it didn't get me anywhere".

 

You: "I know I've hurt you in the past. Right now Im just trying to prove to you that you can trust me again. What can I do to help you?"

 

You see the idea.

 

Repeat that statement every time she takes a jab at you. Stop being defensive, it just confirms in her mind that you still "defend" yourself, which is wrong. She is in fight mode. But by participating, you are keeping it going.

 

This statement validates her feelings, shows that you will take responsibility for repairing things, and directs the conversation into something constructive; i.e. you are asking for suggestions.

 

Dont be offended if she just sits there in silence. She will likely try it again. Be calm and repeat the statement. DON'T get defensive.

 

Good Luck.

 

Salt

[Netguy]

Dude, reread everything you've written. You keep talking about a friendship, but her not putting forth the effort to have one. Do you get upset if your male friends dont call? If you ask a guy to go bowling with you, and he has other plans, do you get mad at him? Im assuming the answer is no.

That's why I said there seem to be alot of head games going on. You say friendship, and get upset when she doesn't act like a girlfriend. She says friendship, yet she gets upset over things that have no bearing on a plutonic relationship. Seems to me that neither of you want to be friends. I think you need to be perfectly frank with her. Tell her exactly what you want. She should respond with what she wants. The rest writes itself. Best of luck, dude.

[keefy1972]

Then don't do NC. Change your approach. Try this...try smothering her with contact. Phone calls, e-mails, and text messages. Nothing serious, no feelings, just good light hearted contact. Keep it that way. Make contact with her in some form or another everyday for an extended period of time. Do NOT allow yourself to be baited into an argument though. KEEP IT LIGHT. Let her lead the conversation. Follow it where ever she wants to take it, but keep it light. If she wants to get into her feelings and so on, then obviously, it's time to be serious.

 

After a reasonable amount of time has passed and you have been doing this heavy contact, move yourself to phase two: Complete withdrawal!

Not no contact, but to where you don't initiate contact. You don't call her, but if she calls you, let it ring right to voice mail. Call her back in a day or two explaining, "Sorry I missed your call, I've been really busy. Chit chat until you notice a lull in the conversation, or 5-7 minutes passes, whichever comes first, then tell her you have to run.

 

If she emails you, reply in a day or two, but be very brief and vague. Give no details of your personal life.

 

Hell bro, I don't know, I am as dumb about this as anyone else, but this is what I am in the middle of. I don't know if it's working for getting her interested in being with me again, but it sure feels good to feel like I am the one in the driver's seat. Am taking it day by day and keeping myself busy. I suggest you do the same.

[saltwatergirl]

Personally, I would consider all these mixed signals to be a huge red flag, and I would be very hesitant to put any stock in you or what may come to be with you. But that is just me. Maybe she's different.

 

Salt

[Netguy]

You don't call her, but if she calls you, let it ring right to voice mail. Call her back in a day or two explaining, "Sorry I missed your call, I've been really busy. Chit chat until you notice a lull in the conversation, or 5-7 minutes passes, whichever comes first, then tell her you have to run.

 

If she emails you, reply in a day or two, but be very brief and vague. Give no details of your personal life.

 

 

For real game playing, right there. I wouldn't suggest that. If she calls, and you want to talk to her, then answer the phone.

[enolaton]

Well, I already explained to her that bringing up the past will never allow a healthy friendship. She agreed to do her best to not bring up the past as long as I don't give her a reason too. She told me she'd like to hang out with me. So, I called her a few days later, and asked her to meet up, and she came up with a lame excuse. She thought I was upset with this, and quickly got annoyed (although I acted fine). She then got off the phone quickly, and that's how we last left off. Haven't spoken to her in about 3,4 days. I'm just trying to let things cool off since then and let her call me. Honestly, I'm surprised either one of us, especially her since she broke up with me, has stuck around so long after the break-up to try to be friends.

[keefy1972]

Hey I am no expert. Nope, not of SuperDave's caliber, but I have been going through this for a long time and have tried the friends route. I just can't do it and she can't seem to leave me alone, so if I need to do the dirty work by gradually cutting her out of my life, then that is what I have to do.

[enolaton]

Well guys... I'm pretty much at the end. Last I spoke to my ex, I asked her if she wanted to meet up (after she agreed that she would put more effort into being friends and that she didn't mind hanging out with me). She came up with some lame excuse, and we were on the verge of arguing over it when she just got off the phone, and we haven't spoken since. That was almost two weeks ago, and I see NO effort on her part.

 

Now, at this point, I have nothing left to lose. Should I just let things go, and not call her as long as she doesn't call me (which could be forever)? Or, at this point, should I just divulge my feelings, tell her that I truly want to work hard at a friendship, and maybe even more someday? It's been almost 10 months already. Time has passed. How could it hurt?

 

It is hurting me that she hasn't even called after she agreed to trying harder at friends. The reason we ARE trying harder, is that she brings up the past, and we both argue (and we're not even together). Of course, this may be the reason why she hasn't called me. She just doesn't want to fight anymore, and she might've just said "to hell with him". But, all I did was just ask her to meet up, which she said she didn't mind, but then gave me some excuse when I DID ask.

 

Why would she do that to me? Why say she will put forth more effort, and then not call me. I told her to not worry about hurting me, and just tell me if she didn't want to be friends (last we spoke).

 

What should I do?

[keefy1972]

Dude it seems to me that she isn't doing this to hurt you intentionally. The most likely reason for this is her noticing how you get upset at her lack of "effort". That, my friend, really does equal pressure on her. Perhaps she is just busy living her life, and for now, you aren't a priority. Don't let that sting you too badly though, she is doing you a favor by giving you this time to get your head on straight. Use it wisely.

 

I would suggest that you do not call her. Let her call you. I know you fear she never will, but trust me, she will. They always do.

[enolaton]

Thanks Keefy. That actually made me a lil better. Problem is, I know for a fact that she isn't do much in her spare time. Why not make the effort if she said she was going to? I gave her a way out, and she said it was important to her. I want to ask her, but at this point in time... it seems fruitless.

[saltwatergirl]

You asked her to meet up, she declined, and now you are ... let m find the quote...."I'm pretty much at the end". After one declining of your suggestion to meet up. You know what, the problem is you. You really want to know what the main thing is? I'll tell you:

 

IT ISNT GOING THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO GO. It's all about YOU.

 

Things are not happening as quickly or perfectly as you want them to happen...you are the director and the play isn't following your script. You seem demanding, overly critical, and Im sorry but you also come accross as a spoiled brat.

 

"I know for a fact that she isn't do much in her spare time".. Wow. Really? There's nothing in her world but you? Gawd. How insensitive.

 

I have read everything you posted. And you know what I think? I think you're selfish. I think you have all these expectations that she must meet, and when she doesn't meet those expectations, or act/respond in the way that you deemed appropriate, her value sinks. Id be willing to bet this is EXACTLY how she feels. Hel, she's probably afraid to do anything at this point because it might not meet with your ever high standards of acceptance...

 

You agreed with this person to forge a friendship. You suggest an outing. She declines. She (and everyone else in the world) has that perrogative. How do you know it was a lame excuse? What makes you the judge of what is and is not an appropriate excuse? And now becuase of that, you are at the end? You're done? You're pulling the plug on a friendship; it's no longer worth the trouble? Wow. You sound arrogant, conceited, and spoiled.

 

If this is any indication of how you conducted yourself in this relationship, I can see where she would be hesitant to consider a friendship with you. Because a friendship, just like any other relationship, requires the acknowledgment and value of people other than yourself.

 

Salt

[keefy1972]

Wow salt. While that may seem harsh, I have to agree with your assessment. I came to a conclusion something similiar to yours with my own situation but it took me a long time to open my eyes to it.

 

enolaton, I hate to say it but she is pretty spot on here. I've been doing this "friends" thing with my ex for a while now and, in the beginning, I would get upset at what I thought to be a lack of effort on her part. What salt said is true, because if she was "only a friend", her backing out on a planned meeting would never ruin my day. I would just be like, "Cool, I'll just catch up with you later". But because I wasted time by pre-meditating the meeting, I felt betrayed because I MADE THE CHOICE TO WASTE MY TIME. By that I mean that I would play it in my head how the meeting would go...how I would act so aloof and be charming and funny and just knock her socks off. She would then call me to say she couldn't make it and I would get all upset because I would not be able to "carry out my plan". That is a very frustrating cycle. That's why it's always best to not plan anything with them and just play it by ear.

[enolaton]

Yikes Salt... I do appreciate your input, but if you have read everything I've posted, you would remember that this was not the first time I asked to see her. I asked several times, all with the same response. So, I gave up.

 

Now, we have always remained in contact, because we both still care for each other, but, there was never a real "friendship" there. Lately, SHE agreed with me to put more effort to make this "friendship" work. She continued on to tell she has NO problem seeing me and that she has been home for quite some time, and I have yet to ask her to meet up since. I reminded her that I had asked several times in the past with all the same response. This is when we decided to put in the effort. A few days later, I ask to meet up, and she DOES tell me a lame excuse. How do I know it's lame??? She told me it was her first day off from work in a week, and she needed rest time. Of course, within that time, she told me that she found time to go to a ball game with a date, as well as see other friends during her busy schedule. However, when I asked, it was a different story. Do you now see why I am hurt? If you don't want to see me, fine.... then don't say that you DO want to see me. Since that day, she has had several days off from work, and not ONE single phone call to me. I'm not saying I'm her priority or her world, but she was apparently committed to making this friendship work, and yet shows no effort whatsoever.

 

The thing is... I don't meet her expectations... hence, why she broke up with me. I have been struggling ever since to meet them, allthewhile, trying to become a better person for myself.

 

I've been at this "friendship" for almost 10 months, with little or nothing in return. I didn't just decide to pull the plug after one try. This is after several months of doing the best I can. Unfortunately for me, she is not recognizing the value in our friendship. If she did, she would try harder.

 

I will grant you, that I may push a little hard, and get upset when things don't go my way... but after all this, and all that I've explained... can you blame me??? As for now, I am backing off, becuase she hung up on me (after I called to meet up) last we spoke, and has yet to contact me. This coming from the person that promised to make the effort in being friends.

[keefy1972]

e, you haven't met her expectations? Look buddy, it seems as if the root of your frustration is the fact that YOU have expectations tied to this friendship. Otherwise it would not consume so much of your time and effort. I know you don't want to look in the mirror and think that you are the "bad guy". You aren't. In fact, I would actually guess that part of you wants some sort of reward from her for your efforts to forge this friendship. That is not what friendships are all about my friend. I'm not chastising you and know you know this. You have to practice being a little more understanding maybe.

[saltwatergirl]

she is not recognizing the value in our friendship.

 

As declared by you.

 

If she did, she would try harder.

 

As expected by you.

 

Since that day, she has had several days off from work, and not ONE single phone call to me.

 

^^^^ READ THAT^^^^

 

Salt

[enolaton]

I don't expect anything from her other then what she promised. How would you feel if someone you cared about promised to make an effort to be friends, and yet, does the complete opposite.

 

Bar none, if she did value our friendship, there would be some clear effort. This is not me being selfish. If she didn't want this, she didn't have to say it. But, she did. So, why not stick by it? I'm not expecting any reward. I'm doing my best to stick by my word, why can't she do her best?

 

In fact, it's obvious that she doesn't want to see or talk to me. So, I won't pressure her. Just don't make promises she can't keep. If this is what it takes for her to be happy, then I wish her all the happiness in the world, and I won't stand in her way.

[BONO]

Easy on the onions kid !

 

 

Scruff