How do you know if a smile means attraction?

[Carnatic]

For starters, sorry if this all sounds a bit naive, but I am quite inexperienced.

 

Hello... I know I'm on here quite a lot with problems. I guess I'm just generally confused, what with haven only just woken up to the fact that I don't necessarily have to accept a life of singledom just because I don't see what girls may be able to see in me.

 

Background quickly, I'm 23, a virgin (not that it matters) but I have never had a girlfriend, and only 2 kisses, the first of which when I was 21... up until recently, and ending this was in a big way thanks to this site, I was in a phase of trying to just accept I wasn't a guy who girls would ever be interested in (thought of myself as ugly/boring/unfriendly/dim-witted and so on ad nauseum), now I think, even if I have difficulty coming to terms with it, maybe, just maybe girls may occasionaly find me appealing just as they seem to do every other guy out there.

 

Anyway, enough of that and on to the smiling thing... one of the things I am confused a little about. In looking out for girls who may be showing me signs of interest, in bars, cafes or just out and about, I see quite a few girls (who I don't know of course) will make eye contact and smile at me, often if I make eye contact first I must add. Maybe, on a day when I'm out of the house this will happen one or two times; if I actually go out to a bar or suchlike it will happen much more often, three or four times sometimes. So anyway, I'm not going to get all excited about girls smiling at me, clearly some girls will naturally just smile at a guy who they see. But this is often said to be a sign of attraction, and I can see why, I like it. But clearly like I said, most wont actually be attracted to me, they just smile anyway. So what I want to know isn't just what are the signs of attraction, but, if I am in a bar and I notice a girl smiling at me, is there any way of knowing what that smile means?

 

To be honest I don't want to know because I am intent on approaching girls who are interested to chat them up... I'm too shy for that, but I am confident and outgoing at least in other ways, and girls approach me often enough (once or twice a month if I go out once a week or something like that) that I don't feel that in order to talk to more girls I need to be the one to do the approaching. Knowing whether a girl approaching you is interested is a whole different matter by the way. But it would make me feel more confident overall, if I knew from a girl's smile that she was definitely looking a me in a 'oh he's cute' kind of way.

 

Anyway, enough rambling... over to anyone who has any ideas... or can empathise, empathy is good too

[keenan]

Hmmm. I'm a smiler, and I'm not interested in every guy I smile at. I think you have to judge more by the length and intensity of eye contact that goes with the smile, plus any attempt to make small talk. A quick 'smile + glance' and then a look away likely just means a girl is friendly. But if the smile is slow, if she holds it while looking at you, if she holds your gaze for more than a second or two (one thousand one...) AND she glances back at you periodically (KEY), then she's probably interested. Eye contact is really a biggie. In a bar, look also for hair flipping/twirling.

[AwdreeHpburn]

I totally agree with Keenan. I too am a smiler. Regardless or attraction. Especially if I notice the guy looking at me a lot, then I sorta feel obligated to at least smile.

 

But I think Keenan said it all. Look for other signs besides just a smile, longer gaze, frequent looks etc.

 

And a good rule of thumb, go with your instinct. If it feels flirtatious, it prolly is. If it you're not sure, it was prolly just a polite smile.

[wlfpack81]

Deleted by user

[keenan]

These 2 examples from the girls in this thread are the exact reason smiles are overrated and don't mean jack. Most girl smile b/c women are naturally more friendly and flirty then guys.

 

Oh, but I can SURE make a smile mean somethin' if I want to!

[AwdreeHpburn]

Wlfpack, I'm sensing hostility. What's up?

 

Overrated, I disagree... maybe over-misintrepreted.

 

I don't smile at people to be flirtatious, I mean like Keenan said, I CAN, but more often than not I smile because its a nice thing to do. It makes people feel good to be smiled at.

 

I don't smile at guys because I want to lead them on or make them think I like them and I don't smile at guys so they'll come over and say, "I picked up on your friendly smile sign, you must like me..."

 

I think I smile out of niceness.

 

Cuz I'm a nice person...

 

...most of the time.

[wlfpack81]

Deleted by user

[keenan]

I know whatever reaction I get back from them won't be good be it a fake smile or if she's generally disgusted at me then no smile at all (which generally is the case the few times I do happen to make eye contact w/a girl).

 

Oh...but I didn't mean it quite that way. Any smile from me is a real smile, but it's just friendly--it basically just means "hi there." I'm from the midwest originally (close to Norman, actually--you know that people there just smile a lot). But a smile +++ the other goodies likely means HI THERE (big boy). Neither version is fake, they just mean different things. It's true that shy guys might confuse the two, especially if they don't get a lot of HI THERE smiles...if they regularly just see friendly smiles, it's pretty hard to know the difference.

[Stinkweed]

Oh...but I didn't mean it quite that way. Any smile from me is a real smile, but it's just friendly--it basically just means "hi there." I'm from the midwest originally (close to Norman, actually--you know that people there just smile a lot). But a smile +++ the other goodies likely means HI THERE (big boy). Neither version is fake, they just mean different things. It's true that shy guys might confuse the two, especially if they don't get a lot of HI THERE smiles...if they regularly just see friendly smiles, it's pretty hard to know the difference.

 

Oh but there are fake smiles. Fake as the smile of a beauty pageant runner-up as she congratulates the 1st place winner. I see it a lot when I smile at a girl just out of niceness and she smiles back but I can sort of see she makes weird disgusted faces when she turns her face to another direction. Which is why I don't smile either at anyone, because I either get no smile in return, or I get looked at like a freak of nature, or I get a fake smile then get looked at like a freak of nature. So I don't think smiling necessarily has any meaning really... Maybe it's just some of us being cynics, but the smile will not work on us, and it will just give desperate guys false hopes. If you want to let a guy know you're interested in him, then talk to him (nothing will let him know you're interested better than letting him know you want to get to know him, duh). That way he won't have to be guessing and just... Less time is wasted.

[keenan]

Ah. That's terrible, and I don't do it. I don't think many guys bother with fake smiles either, so I've rarely (never?) experienced it. Sorry about that.

 

Re: the talking to a guy to keep him from guessing. Keep in mind that a lot of women still subscribe to the notion that if a guy is interested, he'll approach first...and to save potential hassles/heartbreak, she should hang back and wait. This is exacerbated by books like "He's just not that into you" and such....

[Carnatic]

Yeah, this is another thing I don't like, girls waiting for the guy to approach them as thought it's the only way... but I just thought it was purely instinctive, I didn't know there were books which said 'If a guy likes you he will approach you'. It sort of discriminates against the shy guys, (who can still be confident). I'm fairly confident with my mates and outgoing and chatty with girls who approach me, but I still come over all shy at the idea of making the first move. And I guess that some of the girls who make eye contact and smile are doing so becuase they want me to approach them, but I'm too shy, mainly because I'm unsure, and not knowing what can be read into a girl's behaviour from a distance.

Maybe my confidence and understanding of when a girl wants to be approached and when she is just being friendly will improve, but even then, when I am thinking about going over to a girl, another reason I don't is I can't seem to detach the idea of me going over to a girl with the idea of me being lecherous and a creep.

 

Thanks for your help guys and girls

[keenan]

Yeah, this is another thing I don't like, girls waiting for the guy to approach them as thought it's the only way... but I just thought it was purely instinctive, I didn't know there were books which said 'If a guy likes you he will approach you'. It sort of discriminates against the shy guys, (who can still be confident)....

 

 

Yep, shy guys do have a disadvantage with women who feel this way. The gist of that book, which is really popular among young women right now, is that women waste a lot of time, emotion, and mental energy trying to figure out if a guy likes them, trying to figure out whether he wants 'more' from a relationship, trying to rationalize his ambiguous behavior by assuming that he's shy, or wounded, or generally unable to assume the role of Tarzan. The message in the book is that women just need to let go...because if a guy is really into them, nothing will stop him from approaching her, getting her number, and pursuing her with assertiveness. She will have no doubts that he likes her. It's a popular book in part because it releases women from nearly all of the stress that comes from trying to figure out whether and how much a guy 'really' likes her, and how coy or assertive to behave with him, early on.

 

I think that all shy guys should know that this book is so populuar, actually...because it surely does make life more difficult for them. Check it out:

 

link removed

[Carnatic]

arrgh! It's like a conspiracy against us, it's written by a guy too. *looks to the sky and holds his arms aloft* WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO US GREG BEHRENDT? No, it's not true, either he has a really narrow view of the world... or maybe... just maybe... he wants to narrow down the competition to himself by removing a good chunk... like coming on 50% of the guys from the picture. Just the other week I had to explain to a good friend that guys weren't really all like this, just some of them, becuase she was having that 'he hasn't approached me so he can't be interested' thing, and as far as I know things are going well now between her and her 'chap' albeit as a long distance relationship.

I can see why girls might like it as it relieves pressure from them but seriously it's not good for girls either as it cuts down their chances with men by telling them to ignore a whole swathe of the male population. I certainly don't stop at nothing to approach a girl and get her number, and I don't think girls can really say confidence is a thing and that guys who are shy to approach them aren't worth it because they like confident guys, because an important thing is, guys can be very confident but afraid of approaching girls, because so much pressure is placed on us to approach girls, that the fear of rejection is very real. I admit, I take the pressure off myself by waiting for girls to approach me, and when they do I'm quite confident, and I guess, good at relaxing girls by being just down to earth and not building an encounter up into a big sexually charged 'will we-won't we'. If anything I do that too well, because if girls don't feel a bit of tension or awkwardness in talking to a guy maybe they take that as a lack of interest... I digress, but I don't want to assume girls who don't approach me aren't interested, I'm just too shy to approach her, I will smile at her or make eye contact and maybe she will approach me, maybe she won't. Sometimes I will be slightly more proactive, but the ways in which I do this I don't fully understand, I just sometimes find myself talking to a girl when she didn't actually approach me. I digress again...

Girls... don't follow the advice in this book, it's just plain wrong.

[Lily04]

hmm, lol. I was just thinking about the meaning of a smile... I usually am sorta a serious person IRL and people say that I often give off the feeling like "I'm too busy to talk" or just in a rush (often I am.) But sometimes when I'm feeling really happy and elated, I can be sorta giddy/childish and just smile and giggle while walking (this is usually if I'm also on lack of sleep.) I notice guys will also smile at me, and hit on me a lot more... and i'm not even interested in them but they'll just assume..

 

Like today. I was in Tim Hortons (Canadian equivalent of Starbucks) and just before I entered the shop was thinking about this funny e-mail my friend sent, and started smiling, almost laughed. These 2 guys were sitting there drinking a coffee and INSTANTLY started flirting with me. I guess I had a really friendly glow to me too 'cause I was in a good mood, and they just started chatting me up, asking what I do on my free time, etc... I was like wow, what a change...

 

I notice when I smile more, I guess people find you more approachable and will try to flirt more, maybe assuming you find them attractive too... to be honest, I wasn't really attracted to the guys (although one wasn't too bad looking) but flirting is harmless, and it doesn't really hurt... just be aware that when people are smiling & make eye contact it could be for different reasons too! Although when I'm in a good mood and smiling i'm much more likely to strike up a convo. with you, but that doesn't necessarily mean i'm attracted to you... i think I've also hurt guys who assumed this in the past, but... just thought i'd let you know.

[Lily04]

oops sorry, I'm not sure if you're asking strictly about being in bars? because I just meant in general, when shopping or walking, that type of thing... but usually if a girl gives you a shy or suggestive smile in a bar it means she wants you to go over and talk with her!

[Carnatic]

lol, I'm not asking about anything anymore really. I sort of digressed twice in my last post, anything really which explains things. Girls also do smile at me a lot in general places, like cafes and shops. But I always knew it was only really likely that a smile might suggest attraction when in a bar or something. I still like being smiled at though, as I'm sure anyone does, and I prefer not to really think whether a girl smiling at me as I walk by her in town was smiling just because she happened to be in a good mood, because we are just walking past eachother so it doesn't really matter why, I just take it a possible attraction, it makes me happy myself, and feel more confident and I carry on walking. I try to give some smiles back too

[Lily04]

I prefer not to really think whether a girl smiling at me as I walk by her in town was smiling just because she happened to be in a good mood, because we are just walking past eachother so it doesn't really matter why, I just take it a possible attraction, it makes me happy myself, and feel more confident and I carry on walking. I try to give some smiles back too

 

that's good. I do the same sometimes, lol. little things like that can brighten up your day, so why not?

[Stinkweed]

So if you're a girl: Say you're interested in a guy, but he doesn't know you, and of course he doesn't know you're interested. Would you just stand back and do nothing? Cause if it's how you've said so far it is, then either what I just said happens pretty often, OR maybe girls are never initially interested in guys. But how come girls still say a guy is "hot" or that they have a crush on a guy?

 

On the other hand, I'm assuming you don't care, cause another guy is bound to go for you, right? Cause it's what guys do, they approach girls, not the other way around. So, then it's a win-win situation pretty much, right? Or is it? I'm interested in your view on this.

 

What about equal treatment? I know this is more political than anything else. But If we were truly equal to each other, would it not matter who approaches who? But at the same time there's chivalry, yes, where a guy is supposed to be a gentle man and stuff. I think this is more complex than some of us like to think, or maybe I'm just overanalyzing...

[keenan]

I don't support the premise of the book, I'm just reporting it. If I were interested in somebody, I'd smile and find an excuse to make conversation, and see where it naturally leads. I'm a little shy, so I don't know if I'd make the proposition for a date, but I'd make it clear that if he asked, my answer would be yes. I agree--there is a political component to this. To act as though I'm nothing more than an object to be 'shopped for' would be insulting to me & to all women.

[Kevin T]

Wow, if only I had known about such a book a few years ago. Could've saved me a lot of grief. Rather than me sitting around doing what girls tend to do (sit around and try and figure out if they like me), I should've been the one doing the pursuing. I was always afraid of coming on too strong, so I never really actively pursued the ones I liked. (No wonder why nothing happened 9 times out of 10.)

 

Is that how most girls think: "If he really likes me, he'd take a chance and ask me out?" It makes sense, but does put shy males at a big disadvantage. Aren't girls more likely to set out and approach guys they like and make THEIR interests known? C'mon, women are liberated and vying for equality, so I'm sure that most of them must've made some progress in this area too... right?

[Lily04]

Wow, if only I had known about such a book a few years ago. Could've saved me a lot of grief. Rather than me sitting around doing what girls tend to do (sit around and try and figure out if they like me), I should've been the one doing the pursuing. I was always afraid of coming on too strong, so I never really actively pursued the ones I liked. (No wonder why nothing happened 9 times out of 10.)

 

Is that how most girls think: "If he really likes me, he'd take a chance and ask me out?" It makes sense, but does put shy males at a big disadvantage. Aren't girls more likely to set out and approach guys they like and make THEIR interests known? C'mon, women are liberated and vying for equality, so I'm sure that most of them must've made some progress in this area too... right?

 

It really depends on the girl. I'm the type that would totally do it, but would rather prefer the guy asks me out.

[Carnatic]

The book was written by a man... which alters the perspective somewhat, it isn't necessarily how girls naturally want to behave, he is telling them they should behave that way, and as keenan said a lot of girls seem to like this way of thinking, maybe because it takes some pressure off them.

 

Back to smiling, and trying to tell when a smile is more than just a gesture, last night I was in a bar, a girl who I passed going in smiled at me as we passed (I think I may have smiled at her first) and then turned her head to look at me as she walked away. Does this kind of thing mean anything?

[Lily04]

The book was written by a man... which alters the perspective somewhat, it isn't necessarily how girls naturally want to behave, he is telling them they should behave that way, and as keenan said a lot of girls seem to like this way of thinking, maybe because it takes some pressure off them.

 

Back to smiling, and trying to tell when a smile is more than just a gesture, last night I was in a bar, a girl who I passed going in smiled at me as we passed (I think I may have smiled at her first) and then turned her head to look at me as she walked away. Does this kind of thing mean anything?

 

lol, sure! To know, you should start a conversation with her, offer to buy her a drink or something. we can't read every girl's mind, but sometimes if I like a guy I'll smile at them, it's a generic thing to do.

[Carnatic]

lol, maybe I would of but we were passing eachother, her leaving as I was entering. meh, I find it difficult to strike up conversation just like that anyway, slightly easier if there is an obvious way in, in this case, even had she not been leaving I wouldn't have had anything to say... just another girl who I can smile to myself about and say 'see, there are girls out there who might be attracted to you'

[wlfpack81]

Deleted by user