Confused about intimacy

[willcall]

I've been reading some of the posts in the relationship section trying to see if anyone has a problem similiar to mine, but I can't find anything, so I wanted to see if anyone had any advice they could share with me.

 

I've been going out with this girl, I'll call her Jane, for almost a year now. I met Jane through some mutual friends and our relationship started out as friendship, then developed into a dating relationship.

 

When I first started to get to know Jane, I knew she had a reputation for being very flirty and somewhat promiscuous. I developed a huge crush on her, so I welcomed her flirty advances. I'm 30 years old, I've had a few serious relationships, but I've never had sex. I've been close, but never actually did the deed. Ive wanted to, but for one reason or another it just didn't happen.

 

I first asked Jane out about a month after meeting her, and we had a wonderful time. We got close really quick. We make each other laugh and have so many things in common - we love the same music, movies, we're both very close to our families. She's met my parents and they love her, and my sisters love her. Her family seems to like me too. I found that I can talk to her about anything, and she feels the same way about me. About six months into the relationship, we exchanged "I love you's". I know that she genuinely loves me, because she seems to need me so much. Sometimes she seems frantic when we don't talk, like she needs to be reassured that I still love her. We make plans every week to spend time together and talk on the phone 4-5 times a week.

 

Here's the problem - intimacy. We kiss, but she won't let me go any further. I think I've fallen in love with her, and I'm ready for a physical relationship, but she tells me she's not ready. At first I tried to give her space and not push. Then I tried the reverse psychology bit, where I would hug her goodnight, but not kiss her. Well, that didn't work. She wants me to kiss her, but if I try to go any further she backs away from me. On the surface, I would have thought she had some kind of intimacy problems, but she has been intimate with many, many men. This is not just what I picked up from friends prior to dating, but she's told me about a couple of times when she thought she was pregnant from prior relationshps/flings. Mind you - she doesnt' know I've never had sex. I think she would laugh out loud.

 

When we're kissing and I try to go further, she stops me and says she's not ready. I could understand this at first, but we've been going out for 11 months now. I think what's bothering me so much is that she has freely given herself to so many guys - most of which I imagine she didn't love near as much as she loves me - but she doesn't want to have sex with me. We've talked about it several times and I get ZERO out of her. The first time we talked she says that it's too soon, that she needs more time. Then I sat down with her last week because it was bothering me so much this time she says she doesn't want to go any further because it will eventually mess things up. I said what do you mean, and she said I love you you too much to put this relationship at risk. So I said, do you see yourself ever having a sexual relationship with me, aand she said she didn't know, but she didn't want to lose me. I love this girl. I feel like we're getting very serious, but something is wrong here. I would say - she's not sexually attracted to me, but she seems to like kissing me an awful lot. And the way she looks at me, I know she loves me. The chemistry seems to be there, but I'm so frustrated because she offers me no real hope. Plus, it bothers me about all of her prior sexual encounters. I know that several months after we first went out she hooked up with a guy she met at a party and they had sex that night. She never went out with him again.

 

A couple of months ago when I brought up the physical situation, I asked her if she wanted to try a trial separation, go out with other people, and see if that would help our physical relationship. She cried and cried and said no I don't want to breakup, I can't be without you, etc. For a couple of weeks after, she seemed downright obsessive about me, but things have stabilized now - but still no progress in the physical arena. It's not like the girl doesn't like sex, so it has to be me.

 

Can somebody help me understand what is going on? Should I continue to wait?

[RayKay]

Well, I can understand this would be a very frustrating and strange situation for you.

 

Now, just because she HAS been promiscuous does not mean she "likes" sex. There are many promiscuous people whom are suffering from a history of abuse, or low self esteem, and use sex as a way to bring "value" or "love" to themselves. So, it's hard to say. But what does concern me here is she is "shutting down" when it comes to dicussing the issue as that indicates a deeper issue then just wanting to "wait". It is equally scary that you do not feel comfortable telling her your own sexual history.

 

I am not sure what to tell you here, because if she is closed off to talking about it, or even appreciating you do want that sexual intimacy with her, it's not something you can force or change. Understanding and patience is great, but she needs to be also opening up and letting you know why that patience is necessary, and you should not settle for a relationship where you are also missing that sexual intimacy.

 

I am VERY concerned she says she does not know if you will ever get there but almost "guilts" you into staying with her as she does not want to lose you. But I mean, without sexual intimacy that makes you more a "friend" then a "romantic partner" and "lifemate". It's like she wants her cake, but does not want to put forth the effort to bake it (just a twist on the usual saying ).

 

Asides from kissing, does she seem open to any other forms of intimacy – cuddling, holding, caressing?

 

It's hard to say, it could be past trauma, fear of pregnancy, perhaps she has an STD she is not ready to disclose…..

 

I think this is something you do need to express to her is a serious issue for you and that you really do need to talk about. That you love her, but you also want to be able to express that love with her in other forms too and you want to work through this together. And see how she responds.

 

I would try to work it out, but it has to be a two-way street. Don't wait forever, it will only make you miserable in the end too.

[willcall]

Thank you RayKay. I do think this girl has had some self esteem problems along the way and has used sexuality to get attention from males. But that makes me hurt even more.

 

To answer your question, she is not too big on cuddling or caressing. Is it possible that even though she likes to kiss, that she really just isn't sexually attracted to me, and is just being too kind to say it?

 

She knows that my needs are not being met, but she kind of just shrugs and says she can't help it, it's how she feels. I don't want to break up - I love her in every other way. But I don't want to be with someone forever and never experience sex with them. I'm afraid I'm going to be miserable either way.

 

Another question - and this may sound strange - but it's coming for someone who has never had sex. Is it possible to be initimate with someone and not have any feelings for them? Don't you later think - I gave the most precious gift I could give to someone I don't know.

[valenski]

Willcall that kinda sounds like my previous relationship, It was the hardest task for her to give me a little TLC, Its not like its her first real relationship because she has a child and used to live together with his father. I broke up with her three times in three years, that includes a one year period I had no contact with her. I remember how angry it made me, I gave everything to this girl and not even to return a hug of her own initiative?

 

I broke up with her because I was tried of being her "Pal" I wanted more. When I broke it off the last time I wasnt angry anymore, at first I wanted her to hurt like she hurt me but near the end of it all I realised that hurting her wouldnt make me feel better and I hurt because I loved and I loved her.

 

It took me a little while to come to terms with it, knowing that she is the one missing out was my blanket of consolation. It feels like running my finger over a scar whenever I Think of her but I always smile. I'm not saying this is what you should do but I hope telling you what happen to me will offer some insight as to what direction go from here on out.

 

Good luck Senor, I pray you wont suffer like I did.

[amour_13]

I have never been in a situation like yours, but just a thought. Maybe she doesnt want to be more intimate wtih you b/c she does care so much. You said that she has had many sexual relations with guys, but nothing has ever come from them. And She told you she wanted to wait bc it would mess things up. And from what you say.. that is all she knows.. is the mess up.

I could be totally off base, but if i loved someone with all of me, I would do anyting to avoid prior mistakes. I know it must be VERY frustrating to not have that intimacy, but you waited 30 years... whats a little longer to find out what is gonit on inside her head.

You def. need to talk about it though, even if you have to make her.

[LotusFlower]

Well the worst thing you can do is act like a child who is not getting his candy

 

It is the worst feeling to have someone bringing it up or wanting to 'go further' all the time if you are in a NO SEX SPACE. She doesn't want to cuddle because you want to jump in her pants so bad.

 

A NO SEX SPACE is for several reasons--- insecurities, abuse, rape, trust issues, weird bodily things, yeast infections and stds, emotionaly instable parts of life, loss of sexual appetite due to depression, lack of exercise, anxiety, stress, diet, hormones, and dehydration.

 

If you really loved her, you would start asking her about her needs and what ones need to be met, and stop worrying about your needs that aren't.

 

Thats just my interpretation, I don't mean to sound like a B*&$... I just know that when i go to a NO SEX SPACE i am so sick of men thinking it has anything to do with them, or that their needs are being met and are important. Try seeing where you aren't giving her more of you--- uh... probably emotionaly is my guess.

[onmyownagain]

Does she take care of her own pleasure, ie does she masturbate. If she doesn't then I guess she just doesn't like sex.

[avman]

Well the worst thing you can do is act like a child who is not getting his candy

 

It is the worst feeling to have someone bringing it up or wanting to 'go further' all the time if you are in a NO SEX SPACE. She doesn't want to cuddle because you want to jump in her pants so bad.

 

A NO SEX SPACE is for several reasons--- insecurities, abuse, rape, trust issues, weird bodily things, yeast infections and stds, emotionaly instable parts of life, loss of sexual appetite due to depression, lack of exercise, anxiety, stress, diet, hormones, and dehydration.

 

Oh, I don't think thats completely fair. I mean they've been dating for 11 months. I think willcall is completely within his right to be concerned and asking questions about whether this relationship is right for him. Part of the dating process is for both people to determine whether their needs are met, whether they are compatible, and so on.

 

If you really loved her, you would start asking her about her needs and what ones need to be met, and stop worrying about your needs that aren't.

 

This I take exception to. Love is not all about giving up all of your needs and sacrificing them for someone else. It is a mutual thing where both people have their basic needs met, they work through conflict, they compromise if necessary, and so on. It's about both people, not all one or the other.

 

I think RayKay has excellent advice. Have a heart to heart talk with her. It is ok for you to realize that your needs are not being met in this relationship. If you just don't see progress, then I think it's time to move on to someone else. I think all of us have had relationships where we loved someone deeply but realized that they were just not the right person for us.

[willcall]

Thank you all for your insight. Onmyownagain, I don't know if she masturbates or not. I can't imagine bringing that up after the other no-sex conversations we've had.

 

LotusFlower, I appreciate the female perspective. It's not that I'm pressuring her for sex. More than anything, I'm concerned that we're not progressing in the physical side. I think we are very close emotionally and I've let her know I am willing to wait for her, but she has never told me for sure that she will ever want to. I'm not saying if I can't have sex with her, I'm going to break up. But I am concerned about getting closer and closer just to realize one day that it was something about me. She hasn't said no to these other guys. Granted, she didn't get this close to the other guys emotionally, but she gave herself to them seemlingly without a thought. That is what is killing me.

 

Valenski - did she ever tell you why she didn't want to have sex? How did she fare after the break up?

 

The advice you game Amour_13 is comforting to me. Maybe it's because it doesn;t make me feel like somethings wrong with me. I am certainly willing to wait for her. She has had a lot of relationship trouble, has been very hurt, and has a history of jumping in the bed with a guy, then seeing if a relationship ensues. She doesn't want that with me, obviously, but it that a sign that this love is deeper, or something else?

 

Avman, it's true about a relationship being a balancing act of needs. She is there for me in every other way, but you have to admit this is a prtty big need and it compliments the emotional side to make the relationship whole. I want to show her in a physical way how much I love her. It frustrates me when I can't. And it frustrates me to know other guys have, and they either hurt her, or she was just having a one night stand.

 

RayKay, I do need to sit down and talk withher. But, and please don't take this the wrong way, I feel we're having role reversal everytime I want to pour my heart out and she sits there stoically like the stereotypical man, unwilling to open up. Plus it make her really uncomfortable and it pretty much puts a damper on the whole night. She just doesn't have much to say other than the two or three sentences she repeats over and over - "I'm just not ready" "I don't want to lose you" "Sex will mess things up" etc.

 

Thank you all for your advice. Ultimately, if we're going to continue, and I want to, I need to try to get to the heart of the issue.

[valenski]

Well willcal to answer your questions, no she never gave a solid explaination, whenever I'd initiate it she just froze up and when I want to talk about it she'd get upset and calm up so it was really difficult me.

Next, how she is doing now, I cant say but she did see my brother and told him she was willing to give me another chance if I was mature enough to take it to the next level, she was three years and a couple months too late. She even confessed I was one of the nicest guys she's ever dated but I dont know. I am so over her. But it wasnt all bad the experience I gained from our relationship is invaluable.

 

The others that commented gave some good advise I think, maybe if I'd known about enotalone, then maybe things would have been different, good luck ok willcall.