Are Girls tougher?

[Danny H]

I have been reading this board for a week or so now, and the majority of Dumpees seem to be men, and as they are the posters here, it got me thinking.

 

Is that because women have better networks of people to talk this stuff with?

 

Do you think that the majority of dumpers are Female?

 

If so are they the tougher ones who make the decisions for the relationship that we are to weak or blinkered to make?

 

I read somewhere that 80% of divorces are instigated by the wife- that is kind of scary.

What is going on?

 

Best

Dan

[OceanEyes]

I wouldn't say that women are tougher. All I know for sure, is that when a woman is unhappy in her relationship, and ends up meeting someone else, that it's usually much easier to move on.

 

I've ended every long-term relationship I've been in, and the one thing that I can say of all of them, is that I tried to work on things until a point where I just didn't care anymore. There really does come a point where you just get sick of repeating yourself, being sad/ frustrated, and feeling ignored and pushed aside. Eventually, you get so tired of it that all you want to do is GET OUT. So having said that, if you see that a woman has "moved on" quickly, it's usually because she's just happy to be on her own and not fighting for something she's never going to have. Make sense at all?

 

The other important thing to consider, is that there are always very detectable warning signs. Nobody ever just leaves you "out of the blue". It's very rare that we just wake up and think, "hey, I want to be single from now on, I think I'll leave this guy". There are usually a succession of arguments/ discussions/ behaviours that lead to the break-up.

[Tigris]

I'm going through my second divorce! As far as I can see my two husbands didn't realise our marriages had problems until it was too late!

 

I tried talking to them on numerous occasions but obviously they didn't listen to a word I said. To get their attention I actually told them that 'WE NEEDED TO TALK!' That got their attention.

 

My first husband said, 'There's nothing wrong with our marriage.' Well I don't understand where that came from because he hadn't had sex with me for 2 years and it was his fault and he never gave me any explanation. However, looking back it seemed to occur after his Dad tried to force himself on me!

 

My second husband. Well we'd had problems on and off for 6 years! Two years ago I noticed the same cracks appearing as in my first marriage. I made a promise to myself that I'd try everything in my power to put it right. That only seemed to solve the problem for a year!

 

I tried to tell him on numerous occasions this year there was problems. But instead of taking notice of what I was saying he was focusing on the tv which annoyed me totally. By the time October came my feelings had changed!

[DN]

Women do file for divorce more often but that is probably because generally men tend not to file as much because they believe they are more likely to lose custody of their kids, have to pay child support, move out of the marital home etc. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are more happy in the relationship or that women are tougher.

[renaissancewoman101]

I dont think that women dump most of the time. I have never been the dumper, always been the dumpee. This time I found a guy that I thought would not dump me because he said he understood what it was like to be dumped by other women since he usually is the dumpee. Guess what, he dumped me. Kinda does a number on my self-esteem, doesnt it. I do think a lot of women get dumped but they have their friends to talk to and let their feelings out, maybe that is why they dont post on here alot. Men, on the other hand, dont like to talk about their feelings alot, so they post on here. Dont know.

[PocoDiablo]

I think the main reason why women initiate the break ups are because men are too stupid, blind, or immature in relationships.

 

I have been in many relationships that have taught me that, and looking around here and other places I see it over and over again. Many so-called men act like children in relationships. They act like their GF/fiance/wife is their mother and they do nothing to upset them. That means that they sit back and do nothing, make no decisions, do not stand up for themselves, and are basically child-like and boring.

 

Case in point:

 

Girl says she's hungry.

Guy says "Let's go out. Where do you want to go?"

Girl : "It doesn't matter, you choose."

Guy : "I don't care, what do you want?"

Girl : "I really don't know, what sounds good?"

Guy : "Hey, let's go to TGIFridays. I could really deal with some of their wings."

Girl : "Nah, I'm not in the mood. How about some place else?"

Guy : "Hm. How about Macaroni Grille?"

Girl : "Oh, not Italian. I am not in the mood for that."

Guy : "Sushi?"

 

etc., etc. etc., until they get into a fight.

 

Now, I think that if this ever happens to you, it is a huge sign that YOU - the guy - are the problem. I used to do this all the time. And it often ended up in a fight. And the fight was always lame, no real point to it, and it just simmered for days. Then it went away, but there were hard feelings on her part.

 

What I realized is that the problem was because I was not making a decision. I personally feel that women will "test" a man every now and again, maybe not consciously, but they do. All you have to do is be honest, polite, and make a decision and stick with it.

 

Nowadays I will make three suggestions that I would like to go to. Then, if she shoots down all three, I will pick one of the three that has a full menu and that's it! I let her know that is where we are going and we get in the car. Now on the way I am fine with her making a suggestion (so long as it's not totally something I hate) but otherwise I'll stick to it.

 

I've been amazed that stupid little things like this have improved the quality of my relationships ten-fold.

 

Basically, from what I can tell, most guys act like boys - they act like children to the mother. But most women want a man who will act like a father, help start a family, and be able to make decisions and support the house. Little things like this are an indicator of your "worth" as an adult male. You don't have to be mean or rude or cruel, you just have to be mature, polite, adult, and like a gentleman. That means making decisions and sticking with it.

[Dako]

Some of the stats I've read support an 80% figure for women doing the dump. I've also noticed the poor influence of counseling on divorce rates. IIRC, the CDC shows counseling actually saves very few marriages. If I'm wrong as usual please link me to some better data.

 

As most men eventually realize, women are tougher, more devious and overall evil than men. That's why we love them so much.

[Shadows Light]

I think your stats are right.. 80% of divorces are filed by women. And No.. they are not tougher. The reasons for filing are many. Women are usually the nurturers of the relationship. And I think holding up the whole relationship takes it toll on women.

 

I agree that most women do NOT wake up one morning and say.. "hmmmm, I wonder what I can do today.. I know.. I'll leave this poor good for nothing shmuck" The mental process of divorce is long at play in her mind. She's been able to process, and anaylze for a long time.

 

WARNING signs were everywhere. And I don't think men take them seriously. Personally... I've tried it all. Self-help books littered my night stand. He had only to look at my latest reading material to know.. I was dead on serious. Or how many times had I just blatently said.. "I HAVE HAD IT... HOW MUCH more do you think I can stand. Do you think there is a woman ALIVE out there who'd put up with this????"

 

The "D" word. I was banned from using the "D" word. Counseling banned me 8 years ago. He'd always throw it in my face that "He knew I'd leave him one day, everyone told him not to marry him... and he did it anyway." ie.. My mother divorced my father.... hence, I was a TAINTED person somehow. DEFECTIVE.

 

Nothing but nothing created a change. I understand the principle of doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same results. However, I changed it up. I was direct. It didn't work.

 

What finally tilted the scales. What really pushed it over the scales is that I stopped argueing with him. I stopped rising to the bait. AND THAT set off the anger even more.

 

Yikes.... getting to nitty gritty here. I'm sorry.

 

The point was.. no one gets married to get divorced. And yes, women do generally have more of a NET WORK of friends to talk to about emotions and feelings. Women being the dumpers.. are usually way ahead of the process then the dumpee. And have processed allot of the pain already.

 

But I would not say that it is any less PAINFUL. Its gut wretching. Its akin to amputating your right arm. Something that is sometimes necesary to do.. in order for the rest of you to survive.

[Dako]

SL,

Please consider yourself cyberhugged by tall guy.

 

Coincidentally, I just finished Aron Ralston's book 20 minutes ago, so your amputation metaphor rings true.

[boredguy]

both men and women have feelings and emotions, and these feelings and emotions can get hurt over time. I think that women are just better at opening up with their feelings amongst their friends and such. as for men, well we liek to hide it, and when we realise thats not helping, we opt for anonymity- hence this site. and the number of male dumpees...

[OceanEyes]

They act like their GF/fiance/wife is their mother and they do nothing to upset them. That means that they sit back and do nothing, make no decisions, do not stand up for themselves, and are basically child-like and boring.

Wow. This is probably one of the most surprising things that I ever thought I would read coming from a man. I guess it rings so true in my own life experiences, that I wouldn't really expect a man to be 'in tune' with it. You have a very real and practical view of serious male-female relationships.

 

This doesn't mean that men are boring or child-like as a whole. However, when it comes to conflicts, I often find myself getting angrier because the men in question would say things like, "I've done nothing wrong", or "haven't we been through this?", or "I've heard this all before". This is the actual blase attitude that has contributed almost entirely to my major break-ups. I sometimes felt as if I was hitting against a brick wall. Eventually I just said "piss on it", and found strength to change the circumstances by just leaving.

 

I agree that most women do NOT wake up one morning and say.. "hmmmm, I wonder what I can do today.. I know.. I'll leave this poor good for nothing shmuck" The mental process of divorce is long at play in her mind. She's been able to process, and anaylze for a long time.

 

WARNING signs were everywhere. And I don't think men take them seriously.

Also a very real statement. There aren't any women who get into a relationship/ marriage, only to leave it in a couple of years. In my past failed relationships, I've worked my butt off to try and fix things, in both cases for a very long time. There just came this point of 'revelation' that I thought, "this will always be the same, I can't keep fighting for something better". This is usually the point where we literally fall out of love with the man and actively seek ways out of the relationship with little guilt/ anger/ sadness. Something *clicks* and you think, "hey, I don't have to be here, there must be something better than this".

 

Unless a woman is totally hormonal, those recurring arguments that you have should be the real-time warning signs. If you care enough about the relationship, try to listen and really examine whether or not there is some truth to what she's saying. Most women will probably tell you that there is nothing more satisfying or relieving than to have her man actually listen and take what she's saying seriously. Saying things like "I've done nothing wrong", are usually the best, most effective ways to push her towards complete indifference, and thus, you usually get the old "I love you, but am not IN LOVE with you anymore" speech.

[PocoDiablo]

Wow. This is probably one of the most surprising things that I ever thought I would read coming from a man. I guess it rings so true in my own life experiences, that I wouldn't really expect a man to be 'in tune' with it. You have a very real and practical view of serious male-female relationships.

 

This doesn't mean that men are boring or child-like as a whole. However, when it comes to conflicts, I often find myself getting angrier because the men in question would say things like, "I've done nothing wrong", or "haven't we been through this?", or "I've heard this all before". This is the actual blase attitude that has contributed almost entirely to my major break-ups. I sometimes felt as if I was hitting against a brick wall. Eventually I just said "piss on it", and found strength to change the circumstances by just leaving.

Thanks.

 

No, as a whole men are not boring. However, I find that most guys who are having problems are lacking one of a few major criteria and being boring is right up there along with being passive. It amazes me how many men are completely oblivious to what is really going on in their relationships. I mean ... blind as a bat.

 

It is, in my opinion, simply because men never teach each other things. I saw this quote today that sums it up nicely:

 

"I find it ironic that women understand men, yet buy all the self help books. The vast majority of men don't understand women, yet men buy no self help books!"

 

My father taught me NOTHING about dating. And it showed for many years. I'll be sure to teach my son a thing or two. (Watch, I'll only have daughters! )

[novaseeker]

Eh I think women see the things wrong with a relationship, in general, MUCH MUCH sooner than men do. In my own personal experience, women are constantly looking at the relationship, nurturing it, analysing it, reviewing it, trying to improve it, reflecting on it and so forth ... and men ... well, men don't do that, generally, nearly as much. There are exceptions, but in general I don't think that the average guy is nearly as reflective about what is going on in the relationship as the average woman is ... and hence she sees the troubles earlier. She may try to discuss it with him, and he feels blindsided because he hasn't perceived of anything being wrong (because he hasn't been paying as close attention as she has, probably), and so it goes. I'm not sure this results in women being the dumpers more of the time in non-marital relationships, however ... dunno if I've seen any statistics on that.

 

As for marital breakups, yes women file most of the time. The main reason for that, I believe, isthat men may be reluctant to file for financial reasons.

 

And as for writing here, I agree with the others that, again, the typical guy does not have much real-life support to discuss these things, whereas the typical woman has a ton of such support from her friends. Men don't generally discuss this kind of thing with each other to any detailed degree, they really don't, whereas women do, lots, all the time. Men get together and end up talking about football, or office politics, or the cute blonde accross the bar. Women get together and talk about their boyfriends and husbands and their relationships. It makes for a big difference when a crisis comes.

[Dako]

I take issue with some of these posts in one way:

 

Since my wife left me, guys who've been divorced have been amazingly supportive, candid and sympathetic. Even men with a reputation for insensitivity or misogyny have been surprisingly caring.

 

Not one guy has given me the "get over it, get laid" approach, and that includes a San Quentin ex-con, a bouncer, and a tobacco-spitting macho plumber.

 

On the other hand, I persuaded my wife to open up to her friends for support instead of trying to tough it out alone.

 

YMMV.

[novaseeker]

I take issue with some of these posts in one way:

 

Since my wife left me, guys who've been divorced have been amazingly supportive, candid and sympathetic. Even men with a reputation for insensitivity or misogyny have been surprisingly caring.

 

Not one guy has given me the "get over it, get laid" approach, and that includes a San Quentin ex-con, a bouncer, and a tobacco-spitting macho plumber.

 

On the other hand, I persuaded my wife to open up to her friends for support instead of trying to tough it out alone.

 

YMMV.

 

Oh I agree it's a very YMMV thing. I think guys who have been divorced can be a great source of support to other guys who have been divorced, and of course there are women who are relucant to seek the support of their own friends. But in general, my own experience is that men don't discuss their relationships with their guy friends unless and until sonmething is going wrong, whereas women discuss their relationships with their girl friends as a matter of course ... again, there are exceptions to that.

[darkblue]

Well, I've read all the responses and have to agree with DN.

I would say that it is more to do with the fact that men would be at risk of losing a lot.

 

They appear more 'tough' because they think they have to. A macho side comes out in a lot of men that asserts control and convinces them that they should not feel anything!

(Generalization, I know)

[Shadows Light]

Originally Posted by PocoDiablo

They act like their GF/fiance/wife is their mother and they do nothing to upset them. That means that they sit back and do nothing, make no decisions, do not stand up for themselves, and are basically child-like and boring.

I think maybe in general they thing they will be “taken” care of. All they have to do is bring home the bacon and all will be well. So yeah… we feel like Mommy’s.

Decision making… right on. Leave the decision making on how the house hold is run to Wifes. I see it as being passive-aggressive, because then if something goes wrong…they certainly are not at fault. And they can say.. “ you should have done it the other way”.

Boring… well, both can become boring. He stops shaving or taking care of himself. She quits wearing make-up and dressing up to impress him. Whats the point… you’ve caught The PREY in your net…you know what you have.. and its not going to change.

Boring… I don’t know if I like the term. Maybe its more stunted growth… they’ve quit growing, wanting to grow, learn, expand their horizons.

Ocean Eyes "I've done nothing wrong", or "haven't we been through this?", or "I've heard this all before"

 

This one is great. You tell them “when you do XYZ.. and it makes me feel like this or that” and they tell you they did nothing of the sort and you shouldn’t feel that way… “YOU are too sensitive.

Or how about.. “don’t yell at me”.. when you haven’t even raised your voice???

 

Something *clicks* and you think, "hey, I don't have to be here, there must be something better than this".

 

Its more like a “SNAP”. I once asked my GF how she came to her decision. And she told me you’ll know. I had a friend who told me he was going to “ask” his wife for a divorce, when I relayed this to another friend who is divorced.. she said. “no he won’t he’s not ready” whats that supposed to mean. How do you know??? She said… “when you are going to do it. You do it. “ how do you know when you are done? “You’ll know”…

They were right. You “snap”. You’ve exhausted all your possibilities.

You just know. While you are exhausting all your possibilities, the thought if “what if” runs through your mind. So, you “ARE” processing the split beforehand. Almost like “fantasizing”… “day dreaming” and then.. .”SNAP” You’re done.

Paco Diablo However, I find that most guys who are having problems are lacking one of a few major criteria and being boring is right up there along with being passive. It amazes me how many men are completely oblivious to what is really going on in their relationships. I mean ... blind as a bat.

 

It is, in my opinion, simply because men never teach each other things. I saw this quote today that sums it up nicely:

 

"I find it ironic that women understand men, yet buy all the self help books. The vast majority of men don’t understand women, yet men buy no self help books!"

 

 

Blind as a bat, inept at finding a way to fix it, or just complacent.. thinking they can ride out the storm. “all women b**** and complain.” And then we get that wonderful name all we women love..NAG. and if its really contentious the b word or in my case..

C word.

LOL…. Which I consider one of the vilest terms you can call a woman.

Why isn’t there a name for a man that is just as nasty???? Hmmmmm. The ones I can think of just don’t have the same punch.

I think that, women will nurture a relationship and try to keep the “romance” alive. I know talking amongst my friends… its as if something happens, a mask drops. He doesn’t think he has to try anymore.

I always thought that the perfect marriage would be where we each had a house a few blocks away from one another. And we just dated our whole lives. Maybe we wouldn’t take each other for granted, and we’d value each other.

Marriage counselors say that when a husband comes to them for help, they know the marriage is already over, because by then, the woman has already given up.

I’d have to agree with this one. Usually you have to hit them over the head with a 2 x 4 to get them to notice anything is wrong. LOL. You can talk, talk, talk, talk, complain, change up the game, stand on your head, do back-flips… but pack your bags and walk… ohhh yeah. You have their attention. Mine, laughed at first…. He called me and said.. “OK OK.. you’ve got my attention, you can call off your dogs anytime now.” And by this time.. .

SNAP.. it was already too late.

The book men are from mars/women from venus... tried to bridge the gap by bringing an understanding in communication styles between men and women. But it wasn't enough.

Teaching young men how to date. Well thats and all wonderful. But how about we teach them how to partner. Young girls (at least of my generation) were taught how to cook, clean, keep house, and take care of children. But we were NOT taught how to BALANCE... that along with keeping a full time job. I don't think MEN were taught to help contribute with running of the house hold.. so they don't help take enough of the pressure off of us.

AND... neither was taught how to communicate properly to each ... thats for sure. Especially since the rules have changed now.

I think we talk more about feelings, emotions, love.... we as a SOCIETY.. see it more on talk shows, in movies, in media... and feel a sense of ENTITLEMENT.

When you see an afternoon program. And a couple is talking about the EXACT same problems you are having in your marriage, the EXACT same feelings you are feeling.. and are finding resolutions to them. You can identify with it... and you feel a GREATER sense of.. "THIS IS NOT JUST MY IMAGINATION... as he says it is. THIS IS NOT JUST ME being OVERLY SENSITIVE... these issues are very very real."

I think that with the advent of the PILL in the 60's and the greater freedom women received from child bearing and being able to join the work force. We were taught.. we can have it all. We found out quickly in the 90's that WE can't do it all ourselves. MEN.. haven't evolved yet. Nothing has really changed for them. Except that they have a more difficult time competeing for the same jobs.. etc etc. And now they are learning to nurture children more, and how to partner.. and don't have the skill sets to do it. Or anyone to teach them.

[Shadows Light]

Not one guy has given me the "get over it, get laid" approach, and that includes a San Quentin ex-con, a bouncer, and a tobacco-spitting macho plumber.

 

 

OMG... Well she didn't leave you because you had a sense of humor!!!!

 

You are killing me here!!!

[darkblue]

C word.

 

LOL…. Which I consider one of the vilest terms you can call a woman.

Why isn’t there a name for a man that is just as nasty???? Hmmmmm. The ones I can think of just don’t have the same punch.

 

Because women insult men so often, that the words don't have the same effect

(Kidding!!)

 

Or how about.. “don’t yell at me”.. when you haven’t even raised your voice???

Sigh.

I've been there, on many occasions.

[Dako]

OMG... Well she didn't leave you because you had a sense of humor!!!!

 

You are killing me here!!!

 

What? I'm serious, those guys are my buddies!

[OceanEyes]

Speaking as a female in a relationship, I rarely divulge the intimate details of my relationship to friends. Perhaps in the beginning, with things still being new/ fresh/ exciting, but never once the relationship has moved into serious. I don't, usually because I don't want my girlfriends to use what I say against me when I feel better. You know, saying something like, "how can you just stand by when he treated you that way?". I like to make my own decisions and not include my girlfriends too intimately in my love life. There ARE just some things that should be between the man and the woman.

 

Not all women live to gab about their boring love lives. The best and most intimate details of my relationship are kept between he and I.

 

I notice that many men seem to think that it's the woman who leaves marriages, usually because of children/ assets. How do you explain the majority of women leaving most long-term relationships? Obviously some men end the relationships, but the most I see ended are by women for whatever reason.

[Danny H]

How do you explain the majority of women leaving most long-term relationships? Obviously some men end the relationships, but the most I see ended are by women for whatever reason.

 

 

 

I'm starting to feel it is because by the time it gets to the end, the guy has just noticed how bad it really is.

By then the female has almost prepared to ditch out

 

In my case ostrich syndrome was taking place Hoping that things would eventually sort themselves out.

Forgetting that unlike the day/night cycle these things do need input from you.

 

Best

Dan

[Matt1607307328]

I think men and women are both strong but we all have different strengths.

 

When being dumped I think women handle it better because they tend to have a better base of friends to talk to about it. Most guys don't share that kind of bond that women can.

 

~ Matt

 

Visit my Inspirational Blog

 

[DN]

It is passing strange that so many people seem to think that women handle a break up better - all you have to do is browse these forums to see that many women are as hurt, upset and almost incapacitated by a break-up as men can be.

 

Generalisations such as this are bootless, they are unprovable in any meaningful way, and they help no one. It doesn't matter what the gender is, if someone is hurting they don't give a rat's patootie what gender they are. They just want the pain to stop.

 

I gave one reason why some women may file more often for divorce, but that does not mean that they hurt less, recover more quickly or move on faster. Many times they file for divorce because the man has already moved out of the relationship, not because they are the ones who wanted to end it. Divorce is merely an official act of ending a marriage but it doesn't mean it is the cause of the relationship ending.

[Shadows Light]

Divorce is merely an official act of ending a marriage but it doesn't mean it is the cause of the relationship ending.

 

If there are children involved the relationship never really ends.

 

And although the legalities are filed. The paperwork done.. the emotional divorce takes a long long time to untangle. Some.. never put it behind them.