Dating Serious, Conservative Women

[Lion-Guy]

There is this 24yr old girl I have a crush on. She is the serious pre-med studious type. Very cute, good conversationalist, and loves sports. We have a ton in common.

 

I have taken her out 5-6 times with me and we have had lots of fun hanging out with friends of mine. Last weekend I took her out on a "real dinner date" at a nice restaurant.

 

She doesn't really drink and likes to get to bed around midnight (just the way she has always been). On our dinner date I got her to stay up late and watch a movie with me.

 

My question: How do I get this girl to open up a little and spend some alone time together. What is the best way to court a serious, career minded women like this? After the parties or dinner, it is really late and she always wants to get home. I am dying to kiss her, but in the back of a cab before I drop her off does not seem like such a good idea.

 

I am hoping that I am not in the friend zone. I mean she wouldn't have accepted a "real date" if she wanted to just be friends right?

[Eyre]

If you want her to open up you have to give her some time. Often what a girl wants in this type of situation is a chance to really get to know you before she starts to really open up her heart to you. Do you trust someone you have known only a little while the same way you trust your best friend?? Keep in mind that you shouldn't be trying to change her (she may not be a night owl) and that her choosing to go home each night is her way of letting you know some of who she is.

 

Try spending time with her in an informal settting as well. Just hang out and have coffee...rent a movie if you want some alone time...or tell her that you want to hang out even if she has to study (find something quiet to do like read something...) that way she knows that you want to be around her even when she isn't entertaining you (and vice versa). You could also try making plans earlier in the day. Also go to the zoo or a museum...or to some sporting event where you can spend time together. Do not make her feel cornered. Even if she really likes you she may think you are going too fast and choose to stop seeing you.

 

It can be really hard for a girl to navigate her way through this early time in a relationship. If she is anything like me or my girlfriends then she also wants to be friends with her boyfriend...not just some girl he is "seeing" who he may get tired of and ditch just as she is getting emotionally involved.

[Eyre]

I second the communication issue. But don't push too hard or take offense if she doens't know what she wants. I have missed out on several relationships with people I have truly cared about because I was so afraid of getting hurt that I couldn't think far enough ahead to suit the guy I was seeing. And I'm in professional school and have watched more of my friends navigate successful relationships than I really want to count.

[Lion-Guy]

Both of you make good points. You are right that we don't communicate much past a superficial level. Most of our conversations are about her school, my school and things we have in common. I think I need to gear more off our talk towards more passionate topics.

 

I understand that she doesn't like to be out late and drink much and I totally respect he for that. In fact I am the same way. I just feel like you get to know a lot about some one when you have those late night conversations. We don't really speak on the phone, or chat on IM, we see each other on the weekends when we both have free time. (i.e. lack of good communication) I am reluctant to call her just to chat, because I don't want to sound needy.

 

Eyre, I understand what you are talking about being her friend first, but I think that can be a dangerous line. I want to be attractive to her and not just a "nice guy" and good friend.

 

I think you are right about giving her some time and space. I think I have made my self to available. I feel like I am always the one inviting her to do things with my friends. Maybe I will just sit back and she if she shows some interest.

[Eyre]

Don't get me wrong about friendship. You can be both. And remember that she may not call. I can't stand calling. Phones suck. You lack that integral component to communication...eye contact and body language.

 

And how much passion are you expecting? A good night kiss or a sleepover? It seems that you two have just begun so don't rush...if she is the conservative girl you paint her to be you will just push her away.

 

Try a sappy movie and start by holding her hand. I realize that is old fashioned, but if she snuggles beneath your arm or doesn't pull away from a little hand holding you will have the answer on if she likes you as a man or just a friend. I got my last boyfriend's attention by poking him. Literrally poking him in the side (just little jabs when he wasn't looking) until he grabbed my hand. You should have seen his face when I didn't pull away. Not that subtle (and a little childish I admit), but a lot safer for my ego (and heart) than just cornering him and kissing him. Lucky for me, he didn't let go either.

[Lion-Guy]

I agree, phones lack vital components of communication, but if you don't run into people during the day, how else are you going to communicate. If she doesn't call this week than it is simply her lost. I know I am a great guy and I have given her no reason to think otherwise. I have only been gentlemen to her, probably too much so.

 

I am not expecting a lot of passion, just something more than talking. A simple good night kiss or holding hands would show me that there is an attraction on her part. I am not going to rush her, but I am a confident man and don't want to play games.

 

Your story about poking your BF cracked me up. I will certainly go for the sappy movie next time we go on a date and see if she is comfortable getting close and snuggling.

 

After speaking with some friends tonight I have realized that she has never invited me to hangout with her housemates or friends. And almost every weekend she has gone out with my friends and I. There might be a red flag there. Does she have friends and where are they? She is kind of new to the area, but most people have one or two people to hangout with.

[ShySoul]

Is there any way you can arrange a date on a weekend afternoon? There is no rule that says a date has to take place into the late hours of the day and early morning. And those "late night conversations" can take place at any time, you just have to find a way to work them into the conversation. If you want to have more personal talks, start asking questions like that. Don't make it seem like an inqusition, but politely ask her questions and find ways to bring things up.

 

You say you want her to hold your had and give a good night kiss. Why don't you take the initiative? Perhaps she is shy or old fashioned and thinks the guy should be doing that stuff first. If you are a confident man as you say, then why not make a move? Just don't be too forward about it, be soft, sweet, and gentle.

 

Is she a shy person? Maybe that would explain why she doesn't invite you to spend time with her friends. It could be she is having trouble making friends. Or it could be that she is uncomfortable with the idea of introducing you to them. Not a warning sign of any problem.

[Lion-Guy]

Ya arranging a date earlier would probably be ideal. I will try that next time. Lately, she works on the weekends until dinnertime, so I think that is why it ends up so late. I will try my best to work on something earlier in the day.

 

The reason I haven't taken the initiative for a kiss or holding hands is because she has given me little if any indication that she is attracted to me more than a friend. Aside from the fact that she went on a "dinner date" with me. (I made sure I used the word "date" so that it was clear to her)

 

Most girls I have dated have had no problem flirting with me and making it obvious that they like me back. I feel totally clueless where I stand with this girl. I really don't think she is that shy of a girl. She has had no problem getting to know my friends well.

 

Oh my gosh, I feel like I am making a lot of excuses here. I need to just give her some time, see if she is interested and make a move. It is a gamble, but at least I will know if she is attracted to me.

[PocoDiablo]

I think she is not interested OR you need to make a move and find out for sure. Here is why?

 

I have taken her out 5-6 times

Did you make your intentions clear, and - without saying it - alluded to the fact that you want to date her? And why no goodnight kiss within 2-3 dates? The cab is a bad excuse. Get out of the cab and walk her to her door next time. The cab will wait.

 

She doesn't really drink and likes to get to bed around midnight

Midnight? How is that a problem! lol!

 

My question: How do I get this girl to open up a little and spend some alone time together. What is the best way to court a serious, career minded women like this?

You simply need to touch her a little, hands, arms, back, in a way that lets her know that you are an adult and you are looking for an adult relationship.

 

Both of you make good points. You are right that we don't communicate much past a superficial level. Most of our conversations are about her school, my school and things we have in common. I think I need to gear more off our talk towards more passionate topics.

You mean flirt? Yeah, that would be a good idea! Just don't talk directly about sex.

 

We don't really speak on the phone, or chat on IM, we see each other on the weekends when we both have free time. (i.e. lack of good communication) I am reluctant to call her just to chat, because I don't want to sound needy.

PERFECT. Phone, email, chat, IM and all that is friendzone!

 

Eyre, I understand what you are talking about being her friend first, but I think that can be a dangerous line. I want to be attractive to her and not just a "nice guy" and good friend.

Absolutely agreed.

 

I think you are right about giving her some time and space. I think I have made my self to available. I feel like I am always the one inviting her to do things with my friends. Maybe I will just sit back and she if she shows some interest.

Absolutely agreed.

 

If she doesn't call this week than it is simply her loss. I know I am a great guy and I have given her no reason to think otherwise.

If a woman is truly interested in a man, she will make herself available to him by calling him, coming to his house, or meeting with him. So yes, wait for her call.

 

After speaking with some friends tonight I have realized that she has never invited me to hangout with her housemates or friends. And almost every weekend she has gone out with my friends and I. There might be a red flag there. Does she have friends and where are they? She is kind of new to the area, but most people have one or two people to hangout with.

Not inviting you with her friends is a GOOD thing. How in the world are you going to be intimate with other people around? However, if you are going on double dates then YOU are making it hard for you to get to know her and vice versa. You need to be alone with someone to get to know them, not at a place with other people interrupting you.

 

 

The reason I haven't taken the initiative for a kiss or holding hands is because she has given me little if any indication that she is attracted to me more than a friend. Aside from the fact that she went on a "dinner date" with me. (I made sure I used the word "date" so that it was clear to her)

I think she was waiting for YOU to make the move. Men must do TWO things: Ask her on a date and kiss her. You have done one, not both. She's probably waiting for you!!!!

 

Most girls I have dated have had no problem flirting with me and making it obvious that they like me back. I feel totally clueless where I stand with this girl. I really don't think she is that shy of a girl. She has had no problem getting to know my friends well.

I can understand this. However, some people cannot flirt. But, if she is not the kind of woman with whom you have chemistry with, then it will likely only get worse - not better.

 

Oh my gosh, I feel like I am making a lot of excuses here. I need to just give her some time, see if she is interested and make a move. It is a gamble, but at least I will know if she is attracted to me.

I think you bring up many valid points. You DO need to know if she is interested in you.

 

How can you tell?

 

1. Wait for her to call

2. Go on a quiet, intimate date that focuses on you being able to talk and is not expensive.

3. Ask her lots of questions about herself so you can get to know her, see if you like her, and FLIRT.

4. Judge the date. If it seems to go well, then walk her to the door and lean in slowly to give her a kiss. If she leans in and kisses you, then she likes you. If she does anything else, like shakes your hand or hugs you, then you are all done.

 

But you have to make the second move or you will never know.

[Lion-Guy]

Thank you for your comments. I am glad you agree with a lot of my logic.

 

 

 

It is hard to wait for her call me this week. I usually call early in the week and leave a message. Then she calls me back later in the week. We have plans to meet up with some mutual friends this weekend. That is great and all but I really want to get some alone time with her. We have had plenty of conversation and seem to know each other fairly well by now. I want to take her somewhere where I can hold her hand, flirt, show her a good time and hopefully give her a kiss.

 

What do you think if I call her up today and "tell her" that I am taking her to a movie tomorrow night (not a question). I know it is a risk, she might be busy. Or should I e-mail/ text message her this instead of a call. Or do I stick to my original plan and wait for her to contact me this week?

[Dating Coach]

What do you think if I call her up today and "tell her" that I am taking her to a movie tomorrow night (not a question). I know it is a risk, she might be busy. Or should I e-mail/ text message her this instead of a call. Or do I stick to my original plan and wait for her to contact me this week?

 

Well don't be bossy, that's transparent. If you are going to call her up then ask her what she is doing tomorrow and thentell her that you want to take her to __________. I wouldn't do a movie for alone time, because you can't sit there and chat with her. There are better places to go, and I am sure you can think of a few that would put the two of you alone together.

[Lion-Guy]

Some of you already know my story but, quick recap:

 

I got her number the first day I met her. At the time I was getting over a break up and just wanted someone to hangout with (wasn't looking for a GF). In the past month, we went to a few bars together. Drove back to our home town together (8 hrs.)

 

I developed a crush on her and wasn't sure if I was in friend's territory already or not so I asked her out on a "date" and she was excited to go. (it felt good that she said yes) I didn't make a move on the first date like I should have. Not sure the vibes were there, although we got along great.

 

We went to another party together (didn’t talk too much because we were both busy talking to friends) We left together and I asked her to come over, but she declined (it was 2 am). I don’t hear from her during the week. She goes to school and works after that. Pocadillo’s comments about not being available during the week worry me. But she honestly is a very busy girl.

 

2 weeks ago she invited me to drive home together this weekend, another 8 hrs. I would totally back out of this right now but don't want to be a flake. It is going to be real awkward if I try to make a move on her during our road trip and it doesn't work out. Maybe I will just try to flirt with her and be funny. I really want to be more than just a buddy to this girl.

 

Ahhh….I still don't know where I stand. Either I take a step back and don't call her at all and see if she shows any interest, or ask for another date next week. Honestly I think I am afraid of the rejection. I am afraid that she might be giving me clues that she isn't interested and I am misunderstanding them. I am also afraid that she might just a busy girl and I would be making a huge mistake if I didn't keep trying.

 

I could use some serious help!!!!

[Dating Coach]

Well you were already on the road to success but now you are kind of confused because a couple of times you didn't follow through... like with the kiss on the date.

 

I find it funny that you are afraid of being rejected if you ask her out again... because you already asked her out once so you can't really stopo what was started. She is either going to reject you or date you, and if you do nothing then you will be rejected. So you have to do something. Set up another date.

[Lion-Guy]

Ya I know I totally regret not kissing her on the first date. But I can't change the past.

 

I asked to her come over and watch TV with me last night and she shot me down. Said that she had to get to bed early because she had a big day tomorrow.

 

Tonight we leave on our road trip back home together. I guess on the return trip sunday I will ask her for another date for next week before we go our separate ways for Christmas. Wish me luck.

[Dating Coach]

Good Luck!

[ShySoul]

Not making moves on the first date was good, not a bad thing. You showed her you respected her enought to take it slow. And she came back for more, didn't she? What if you had gone for a first kiss but she wasn't comfortable at the time? Wouldn't that have just made things strange? But in going slowly, you've gotten to spend more time together and can better see if things are really right for the two of you.

 

Forget thoughts of being in the "friendzone." There is no such thing. If you are compatible it will work out. If you are not, then you will both come to see that. You will remain good friends because that is the basis of your relationship, rather platonic or more. But it won't be because you didn't make a move or some other silly thing like that which cause her to say, "we'll I liked you but now your just a friend."

 

She is a busy girl, she could honestly not have much free time. It is in no way an indication of a lack of interest on her part. Do you still talk or see each other regularly? If so, thats good.

 

You like her, she offered you to ride back with her, and you want to back out? You realize that is the best chance to do something. Don't make "moves" on her. Girls don't generally like "having the moves put on them." Talk to her during that trip, you have plenty of time. You can get in great conversation and really begin to talk beyond the superficial level. From there, decide if you really are interested in her, if there is enough meaningful things in common to pursue it. And then ask her out again. And ask when she is available, if she is busy then don't tell her when to do something, be accomadating.

 

And don't pull back just to see if she is going to show interest. That is playing games and will get you no where.

 

Hope things go well for you.

[Lion-Guy]

Thank you for the encouraging post shysoul.

 

 

I wouldn't say that we talk regularly, but we hangout at least once a week, usually on the weekend with mutual friends. I am always the one to invite her to do something. She isn't the best communicator. It takes her awhile to call me back sometimes.

 

The reason I wanted to back out is because I feel like we have spent so much time talking like friends, getting to know each other and I didn't want to get deeper into the friend's zone. But if you say there is no such thing than I shouldn't have to worry.

 

Anyhow, we drove back together yesterday and had a great trip. There were no awkward silences and we both chatted it up the whole time. We have spent enough time together talking now that I think we really understand one another.

 

l learned a lot about her, which explains some of her actions. She didn't socialize much at all this last year because she was studying hard to get into med school. She likes to have set plans and often turns down spontaneous request from people. If it hasn't been planned a few days ahead she usually won't do them. I guess that explains why she has turned down a few of my invites to do things the day of. Has very little money to do go out because she is working to pay for school.

 

There really hasn't been a spark or romantic connection between the two of us thus far. I really need to get her to go on another date instead of seeing her around friends.

 

My plan is at the end the drive home to ask her for another date. I know she has a busy week and I want to be accommodating, but I don't want to sound too available like I have nothing to do. Any advice on wording that?

 

"I would like to take you on another date next week, what day would be good for you?" How does that sound?

 

Also, I have been racking my brain about where I could take her. I want to do something active, not dinner and nothing outside (too cold). Tough when she works till 6 and needs to get to bed around 10.

[ShySoul]

Hey. Some people will say there is a friendzone and vehemently rally against it at all costs. So if you ask them, they will tell you different things. But to me its a matter of perspective. If things don't work out it will be because you weren't compatible and it wasn't meant to be, not because you were too nice or too friendly. I think the friendzone is something that people have come up with to describe the situation and gets blamed if things don't work out even if thats not the case. Also, those same people often say that a women makes up her mind within a few minutes of meeting you. If that's true, then you would already have been in the "friendzone" and you didn't even notice. Odds were against you from the start. Of course, there is the chance that she has always liked you as more then a friend, just doesn't know how to say it, or that she has grown to like you more.

 

Really, there are so many variables and possibilities that trying to decipher it all is likely to give you a headache. Unless you have a really clear sign one way or another, I think its best not to worry about it. The question isn't if she likes you, its if you like her. Clearly you do. Then you need to take a chance and go for it. Don't be afraid of rejection. Just take the risk. It's worth it.

 

Little money, studies all the time, and not spontaneous.... that explains a lot. Your way of asking her out sounds good. As for what to do, here are some suggestions: bowling, ice skating, mini golf, one of those fun centers with the arcade games.

 

Good luck.

[Lion-Guy]

Ok so we had another great conversation in the car on the way home. We both opened up a little and got to know eachother well. She even told me something that makes her self-conscious. We listened to each other's CDs and had a fun time. Long story short, I waited until I was at her door step to ask her for another date. It went something like this:

 

Me: "I want to take you on another date.....(pause).... are you interested?"

 

Her: Oh how nice, (looks nervous.....thinking) mmm...well don't know when?

 

Me: How about wednesday? (she leaves Thursday for a trip)

 

Her: I have to drive to my aunt and uncle's that day?

 

But But I will let you know.

 

Me: Ok

 

Me: Good night.

 

Her: Good night

 

(then she calls me 20 min. later because she left something in me car. Doesn't say anything about going on a date)

 

To me this sounds like her way of saying "thanks but no thanks".

 

What do you guys think?

 

Do I bring it up again, or just see wait for her to call/not call?

[ShySoul]

Wait it out a little longer. Twenty minutes might not have been enough time to see if she had the time or could move something around. Any idea how far the aunt and uncle are or what she has to do there? Note, I believe people when they say something unless I have good reason to otherwise. So while other people may see her making excuses, I see the possibility for valid reasons.

[Lion-Guy]

I like your logic shysoul. Judging the conversation on the ride home I was expecting a "yes, sure" response but since I waited till the last min. I think I caught her off guard.

 

She looked nervous so I thought that might be a good sign that she liked me. Why get nervous in front of someone you are not interested in. But maybe not.

 

I would have appreciated a "no thanks" if that was the case, but I guess most people are not that straightforward. It is out of my control now. I did what I had to do, now it is up to her. I will just have to wait it out.

[Lion-Guy]

She said she would "let me know"......no response or call so far. Not even a simple TX message, e-mail or anything....frustrating..I just want to know either way so that I can get things off my mind and think about more important things. She left something in my car that she needs before her trip. Not sure if I should be the better person and drop it off tomorrow when she is not home or make her come pick it up?

 

Girls don't leave guys in limbo, just tell them if you are not interested!!

[SimonBlume]

I noticed that you left messages here at 1 or 2 AM today and yesterday!

Relax, relax...

 

I'm a serious and conservative woman, and as I see it she IS interested in you. Serious and conservative women do not promise anything before they truly make up their minds.

 

As to the relationship, frankly, you did not follow the right way of dating her, and I am surprised that she is still interested in you. Sorry if you feel hurt, but I am only telling you the truth to help you. A career-oriented woman wants to learn, this is what Madam Curie said. If you always offer her superficial talks and invite her to watch some movies, what sense does it make to her? To have a boy-friend? But as you know a boy-friend is not such a priority to a serious woman. So, if I were you, I would try to think of ways to let her have meaningful dates. I remember that when Jackie dated JFK, she found that the whole Kennedy family would think of doing something meaningful and learning, say, Math, even when they were doing some poker games.

 

Honestly, serious women are not attractive, because few men could stand such a stressful life with them.

 

I'm so touched by your love to her and that's why I wrote so much for you today.

[Lion-Guy]

Thanks for the comments SimonBlue.

 

My time must be set incorrectly cause it was more like 11 PM. But yes you are right I was feeling hurt and I was looking for someone to talk to.

 

What makes you think she is interested in me? I am curious because the more I look back at things the less I think she is. Except for the fact that she went on a date with me, we get got along well and our conversations just seem to flow.

 

I know I probably went about things wrong. Thank you for telling me the truth. She doesn't like to drink, stay up late and either do I, so why did I ever think of taking her to the bars and a party? I guess I just wanted to show her that I can be fun and that I have quality friends.

 

I am a very career-minded person myself (in fact that is one of the main reasons my last GF of 3 years didn't work out). But you are right, I can tell that having a boyfriend really isn't a priority to her right now. Getting through school and working is what she focuses most on. I was the same way until my last relationship ended and now I have discovered there is more to life than school/work and I am trying to have a little more fun.

 

BTW she might not be as conservative as I first thought. She told me she dated a few football players in college, but then again I don't want to make assumptions.

[SimonBlume]

Umm...if she dated a few football players in college then things look different now...: ) Usually conservative women don't like football players...: ) They should more like professors... : ) But it might be that she was just curious at that time so this does not tell us much either and do not despair.

 

I think she's interested in you because as you said she's so busy for schooling and working and she still dates you! I would not waste my time on someone whom I wasn't interested in at all if I was busy! : ) So, you're hopeful!