Con artist?

[Cynder]

Ok,

 

I am so mad right now...

 

I have been practicing Eclectic Paganism for about 6 years now. About two years ago I became frusterated at the fact that there are no Pagan groups in my area. I know a few others like me who met with the same problem. So I decided to take the initiative and start one. I started it on Yahoo Groups. Now, two years later we have grown to over 20 members (not a lot, I know, but we live in a conservative Chrisitan town.) We have weekly meetups at a local coffee shop, we all get along well, and we have a good time. I have given myself a pat on the back for starting this group, and I feel like I have really accomplished something good in doing so.

 

Now, on to the problem... About a month ago this girl joined us. She seemed very pushy and domineering. We all told her so on our Yahoo message board, but we decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. I politely told her that this is a democratic group and there is no "leader." I am the person who started the group, but we are all involved in making decisions.

 

She called me and invited me over to her house. She said she would feel more comfortable meeting me before coming to a coffee shop meetup and meeting everyone at once. So I went over, and she tried to put me to work, (cleaning, etc, which I wouldn't do.) In my opinion it's downright rude to invite company over and then ask them to help you clean your house. Her house was a mess too, by the way. Whiole I was over there she was making all these suggestions about how I should do things in the group, like charging member dues, etc. This is another thing I'm against. I decided from the get-go that there would be no money involved.

 

After I came to her house, she posted in the group that weekly meetups should be at her house. She also posted that we all need to do some link up thing with our cell phones, and she set up an account on some website that does this. I, along with other members didn't really like this. We thought she was being very pretentious.

 

She came to a coffee shop meetup last night. Over the course of the evening she talked about herself way too much. She kissed the butts of all the other members she hadn't met, and was very condescending and snooty to me. Since she joined the group, three members have left. She made a point to tell me there in front of everyone that they had left (Like I don't already know this.) While she was telling me this, she laughed like she was getting satisfaction from it.

 

So today I discover that she had posted us on a Pagan networking site. I discovered this by accident actually. I guess this would be ok, except she has listed herself as the "Group organizer" and she stated loudly and proudly that we charge a monthly fee for membership! I was so stark raving mad when I saw this. She is advertising my group and wants to collect money off people who join it through that website!!! Is she a con artist or something? And there is a paypal icon right there in the post that is set up so you can pay HER through PayPal... I had to go to work, so I've been stewing on this all day long. I printed out the post on the networking site just so I'd have proof. The rest of the group hasn't seen this yet. I don't know how to handle this as far as they are concerned. Should I just kick her out, or should I tell the group first. I don't know. The only reason I'm concidering not telling the whole group is to keep the peace...

 

I have been considering building a group website for a while now. NOw that we are active and going strong, I figured now would be the time. I was going to bring it up at the next meetup... So I get home today... and there is a post from her on yahoo saying "Guerss what guys, I started a website for us! I need everyone's pic and bio so I can make a members page, etc etc etc." Now if I say I was goiung to do this, they will think I am copycating her or something.

 

This was my thing. This was something good that I did, and now this woman is trying to be the leader, and make all the decisions herself! I haven't posted anything in response to the website thing, because I don't know what to say. What should I say? I am trying to solve this problem without starting a huge flame war or real life argument. I am also trying to keep in mind that this is a democratic group here...

 

Any suggestions, please help me out.

[PavPPZ1]

Ok, at this point, she is trying to take control of your group, and eventhough there are no leaders in this. You are the creator and you started this organization. You need to stand up to her and tell her straight up, If she does another thing without discussing it over with you, she is out perminently. You need to tell her this asap.

 

If she wants to take the role of leadership and organization, that will be fine but if she plans on trying to take control she is mistaken. Because otherwise everything you have done will fall appart. You need to take a stand and be very stern on this, tell her if you see another incident of this you will kick her out. She seems like she has some natural leadership abilities, but she doesnt have a first clue about respecting others invovled. This is giong to creat internal turmoil, and you should put a stop to it ASAP>

 

Let us know what you think and give some mroe input...

[nenez]

Firstly well done to you for starting something. Its not easy to do.

You must talk to the other members of the group and see how they feel. If they agree that she is dominating and overwhelming the group. you mut talk to her and say this, as a group. If necessary, be rude.

If she backs down and says she wishes to remeina point out to her that she must abide by the group ethos.

You should insist she removes the false information on the website, and backs down.

Incidentally you may find on consideration that not all her ideas are bad, just the steamroller way she did them.

You also say the group has no leader but you clearly feel some ownership or responsibility for the group (rightly so as you started it). Her behaviour has attcked you in a very vulnerable place (mothership) so you must deal with this or if she continuews to remain in the group and push it her way, you will become increasingly unhappy.

However, you may find not all the memebers agree with you. You may have yo split into two groups (of course all members can belong to both if they wish bar her.)

Since you feel a responsibility and ownership for the group you may wish to formalise this in some way to stop this happening in the future.

Again Im sorry she's made you unhappy but you can win if you stand up to her and push your corner.

Find your inner Goddess!!

Love as always

Nenezxx

[Cynder]

Should I talk to other members about this, to find out how they feel? I already plan on saying something to her, I'm just not sure how involved everyone else should be.

[nenez]

Talk to the others. You may find they are all behind you, or some not. Its good to know where you stand.

Bear in mind that as soon as you propose making a stand some of them will shilly shally about.

But talk to them first.

 

By the way, just looked up on google and I found a site AKRON. Is that it?

Love Nenezxx

[Cynder]

No, we aren't Akron based, but near there. I know you pretty much answered my question in your first post... we must have been posting at the same time, lol.

[Jinx]

No matter what she is, one word is trouble.

 

So today I discover that she had posted us on a Pagan networking site. I discovered this by accident actually. I guess this would be ok, except she has listed herself as the "Group organizer" and she stated loudly and proudly that we charge a monthly fee for membership! I was so stark raving mad when I saw this. She is advertising my group and wants to collect money off people who join it through that website!!! Is she a con artist or something? And there is a paypal icon right there in the post that is set up so you can pay HER through PayPal.

 

Not only is she claiming the group as her own and trying to run it, she is disobeying rules, she is most likely making a negative outlook than positive (who knows where all else she has posted.). Furthermore, if she is a scammer, you may end up in trouble if this isn't nipped in the bud. She has no authority over your group and needs to have something done. Only thing I worry about, she might not be all there, I'd be cautious in whatever steps are taken for her prompt removal.

[DN]

One way to handle it is to get all the members who agree with you to start up another group and leave her and anyone who supports her on their own. Probably be a one-woman group but that's her problem.

 

That way you haven't had the nastiness of kicking her out but have all left to form a new group - without her. The new group should have at least one rule: she can't join under any circumstances.

[Hope75]

I agree with DN, talk to the other members of the group. Let them know what is going on and decide what you want to do about this together. The likely solution is to ask her to leave the group, and to find another place to meet so she can't bother you.

 

Don't allow her into the new group.

[Boricua7]

One way to handle it is to get all the members who agree with you to start up another group and leave her and anyone who supports her on their own. Probably be a one-woman group but that's her problem.

 

I couldn't have come up with a better resolution if I tried!

 

Look, she is dominating the group because you are letting her. You need to put your foot down if this is making you so unhappy.

 

Good luck and congradulations on starting the group!

[PavPPZ1]

do not get any other members involved, just tell her to get lost, and thats that... it comes to it...

[Hope75]

She says the group is a democracy, and she is not the leader. thereforeeee the others have a right to know what is going on and have a say in the final decision to oust her or not.

[Boricua7]

She says the group is a democracy, and she is not the leader. thereforeeee the others have a right to know what is going on and have a say in the final decision to oust her or not.

 

I could not agree more. You owe it to the members of the group to let them know what's going on or else you're being like her and putting everything in your hands, which is something that a "leader" does.

[Cynder]

To Boricua:

 

Yes, I have been to leanient. All this has happened in 7 days though. She got like this after she met me, and then their was a huge argument on the message board, and I almost kicked her out then (At the urging of several members and because I thought I should.) Then she claimed she was sorry and yada yada yada. Then last night she came to the coffee shop, and these new discoveries ( the fee charging, the website) were just from today.

 

I guess I have let her be dominant, because I'm not sure how to go about stopping her.

 

To Hope and DN:

 

I like that idea. I think they would all go for that too.

 

To Jinx:

 

I have considered that she might not be all there, and that worries me.

 

I wonder if using false info to make money in this way is illegal, and if so, will it come back on me?

 

I did check google though, and I can't find anywhere else that she has posted us.

 

 

All good suggestions. It is much appreciated.

[Hope75]

So what do you suppose you will do now?

 

I think it's fair to let the other members know about her soliciting fees for this non profit association and keeping them for herself.

[PavPPZ1]

This is not a case of democracy, just kick her out, you are the leader, there must be a leader or its chaos, and she will cause that or become the leader, so just kick her out.

[Hope75]

This is not a case of democracy, just kick her out, you are the leader, there must be a leader or its chaos, and she will cause that or become the leader, so just kick her out.

 

Cynder has already stated that the group prefers the democratic approach, and that all members participate in the decision making process. I hardly think that a group of 20 people with out a so called leader but a reasonable approach to decision making that has existed peacefully for several years will result in chaos.

[babycristy456]

My opinion on what I think will keep "order" is to wait until the next meeting and voice your opinion to the group, including her, about her behavior lately (charging members, claiming ownership, etc.). Let the whole group know why you think this is unfair to you, and the rest of the members. Also say why you think you have a right of say in this issue, the fact that you started this group and have maintained it. Explain why you feel the heart of the group (the values of democracy) are being jeopardized by her behavior. Ask the members to "vote" on this issue, if they vote against it, this girl needs to stop or she will be kicked out, by popular vote. If the members agree to her leadership tasks, then suggest that her actions must be voiced first, then voted on before she starts any publicity. Lastly, if the vote on a membership fee, let her know that it is going to some funds that will help the group grow, not for her own pocket change.

[Shadows Light]

First of all GREAT GOING on setting up this group.

 

Second.. I think you have a right to be upset. She's bringing in a negative energy to the group. One that has not been there before.

 

You are a democracy.. well even a democracy has rules of engagement. Ground rules. A scope. Operating procedures. At one of your meetings you should have maybe put pen to paper and taken a vote. First of all ... what is the group about??? and come up with a 2 line explanation? What is the name of the group? Who can join and how does that happen?

 

Fee's??? there are none. Great. Then how do you plan on paying for activities. What are the rules.

 

WEB... who manages the web. Who initiates it. What type of information goes on there.

 

RULE.. any use of the group name, scope, rules of engagement.. any changes to it any mis-representation.. constitutes the right of the group to VOTE and OUST a member for misconduct. How many strikes does a person get before they are ousted???? What constitutes infringement???

 

There are probably tonz of books out there on managing a team, and team dynamics. How are roles and responsibilites assigned??? etc. Usually there is a group leader. A secretary. A treasurer. Group leader is just the go to person. The person who holds the records. The person who keeps order to meeting. And you can vote on that. You can change leaders every 3 months... change it according to the seasons. According to the soltices. Actually.. having one person lead for a while is a good thing. IF someone does not have leadership qualities... it helps them grow and learn and gain that knowledge. And like you said for yourself... it can make them GOOD at something and give them esteem. That may translate into other areas of thier lives. Maybe they start displaying leadership qualities at work... at school.. where ever.

 

I think you should bring up the infringements... or what you think are infringements to the group. And how they have changed or about to change the group dynamics.

 

By doing some of the above excersises... it changes the group dynamics.. but in a good way. And maybe it puts the rules in black and white so that NEW members know what the score it. And Existing members have guidelines to work from on how things are handled .. like this little snafu.

 

Let me know how this works out for you. I'm from your area BTW.

[Cynder]

I guess we never bothered laying down a lot of rules before now because there have never been any problems. I have always managed all the web stuff. Activities are a pay your own way thing. We have a name and a "mission Statement." I guess that would be the same as a scope.

 

I actually talked to two other members last night on the phone (they called me when they saw the new website) and asked me what the hell was up with this. One of them volunteered to contact the three members that have left and ask them why. We all have suspicions that this woman told them something that made them want to leave.

 

Between the three of us we have come up with an idea which the other group members are all for.

 

There is a Samhane party this weekend that everyone will be at. We are planning to talk to her as a group before the festivities start. We have all agree to not say anything to her on the board before then. At the party, if she goes off and refuses to leave, we've decided we are calling the cops and they can escort her out.

 

This morning when I got up I found two more posts from her. One saying the website has been officially launched, and the second stating that we are having a meeting at her house on Tuesday (?) and she will be selling herbs, crystals, etc. She plainly told us in the post to make sure we bring money.

 

I did some more digging last night. I found that she has caused trouble in other simalar groups. She has also been known to throw fraudulent events. The rest of the group has been made aware of this.

 

Well, I know there will be more updates to this, but I must get ready for work.

 

Shadow, your from around her ? There are a few people on here that live close to me. That's cool.

[Shadows Light]

oops... meant for a PM

[Cynder]

We've all agreed to not respond to any of her posts on the web. This is something she either hasn't noticed or she deson't care. She has been posting like crazy the last few days. Today she has decided that we will stick to one time, one place, and one day for all our meetups. We normally have meetups on Wednesdays at 6. But sometimes we change that if someone can't make it then. There are two coffee shops we tend to bounce back and forth between, (because a change of scenery is good from time to time.) No one has even had a problem with this, but now she wants to change it. She also created a poll on when and where we will have out meetups from now on. And she stated that all members are required to vote.

 

She has also decided that we (meaning she) will teach classes from now on. The classes cost money except to "active" group members they are free. She has posted a list of all the classes that will be offered. She has also stated that if anyone else wants to teach a class, she will decide if we are qualified to teach it or not. When we complete so many of her classes, we will be issued certain degrees and rankings in the group.

 

This is getting ridiculous! The party is tonight and we are all going to tell her how we feel.

 

We are a group based religious views, but more then anything we are a social group. We may be like minded, but when we get together we talk and have a good time. It's never been about classes and rituals. We are not a coven, and that's exactly what she is trying to turn us into.

[DN]

Tell her to go hubble bubble and she can cause toil and trouble somewhere else. She can't lead if no one follows. Sounds to me as if she has $$ in her eyes rather than anything else.

[Shadows Light]

Tell her to go hubble bubble and she can cause toil and trouble somewhere else. She can't lead if no one follows. Sounds to me as if she has $$ in her eyes rather than anything else.

 

OHHH THATS GOOD DN???

 

I agree.. she can lead all she wants. But if there is no one to follow.. then ????? Actually.. I think a good old fashion SHUNNING is in order here.. ALL should ignore her and look through her tonight. And when she gets her knickers in a twist. Then you drop the mother load on her and tell her to SCAT - HIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

like the black witchy cat she is.

[Cynder]

I'm sorry for not updating sooner on this. I have been busy the last week and haven't posted much here...

 

When we confronted her, she cussed, screamed, called names and stormed out of the party making a big scene. It was a unanimus decion to kick her out of the group. Now she has started another group just like mine, but no one has joined. She is also harassing me and several other members on the net. Has she no life or what???