Should I have seen this coming?

[Bounder]

My ex and I were together three years this summer. We had a major bump in the road two years ago when i cheated on her while abroad (I had a freak out about where I was going in life one night), but called her the next day and worked like a dog to get things back on solid ground, which they were....so I thought. When we fought she would bring up my mistake, saying she couldnt get over it, and then take it back a few days later and things would be ok again for a long while. I was crucicfied many time sfor it, and did my best to say I was sorry....but eventually I forgave myself. And I felt she wanted to forgive me

 

In March of this year, she freaked on me, drove up (she lives two hours away, we commutte and spend summers together) and said I wasnt what she wanted, that I was too ambitious with my academics, that she wanted to live more, have no strings, be selfish and explore, and that my life was too planned out. Of course, it was end of semester and the stress was piling up for both of us, so I assumed she needed space. I dropped everything, went to counseling, worked on myself and she came back a few weeks later after a long talk about what I wanted to change and what she wanted to change. At one point during the break up she told me she hooked up witha guy the day after we broke up. And when I hung up on her she called me back to say she had made it up, she just wanted me to get over her.

 

When she said she wanted me baclk afew weeks later, I asked about that night and she said she had never been with anyone else, couldnt do it, not after what I had done and how it felt. So, we were off to the races, trying new things, travelling etc. I dropped my thesis work to put more time in us, did more romantic things, and got a lot of great times and "your the best boyfriend" for it. She, however, seemed to be getting more chatic, rejected for her masters program, denied a job she wanted...no plan and scared. Then, I leave for a short holiday with family, she emails me every day saying she misses me, and one night about a week in calls me at my hotel to say that a guy had tried to kiss her but she ran away. Then she pushed me into talking about where we were going, how come I didnt talk about marriage, why wasnt I willing to move to Korea if she went (she had mentioned this once). I said I didnt realize that Korea was that important, we could talk about it when I got back, and that I wanted to marry her, but we needed to focus on us and building a base again for now.

 

A week later she calls me to break up with me again. I was "not the one for her right now" even though I had been "amazing"; she was still having doubts. Said she had compromised her values by taking me back two years ago. Says there was no one else, just needs to think of herself. I try hard to be there for her, then one of my friends warns me that she was fooling around with a guy, and that when I came back she would pop it on me.

 

So, I have been back in town for almosta week, saw her at a party with the new boy, was devastated, but strong, even met a new girl that I kissed and want to date for a while. This made her jealous and she calls me saying it was hard seeing me and not being able to talk and stuff.

 

This girl is messed up and yet I still love her. I am angry at the lies, how she could have told me she loved me, could never lie or cheat on me and does it twice, all the while getting jealous of my female friends and yet part of me still feels the power to forgive if she showed things were different. I screwed up two years ago, but I was honest and told he rirght away, and now her dihonesty hurts me, but I still love her. But now I am just angry at the brutal rejection and lying and feeling quite small.

 

Oof, that was long. All that to say that I have urges to call every day, send her stuff, etll her I lover her (all of which I did the first time we broke up and I think might have worked) but now I am afraid that the first time I had convinced her to come back, instead of her coming back on her own. I tell myself she needs to figure out how to get US back on her own if thats what she wants someday. Except for the night of the party when she called afterwards, we havent spoken for over a week. I sent her an e-mail of things she used to say about valuing honesty and stuff to show her how betryaed I felt, but little more.

 

The urge to do something is excruciating though. I am lucky to have friends who care, but that doesnt solve the waking up alone and falling asleeop alone, and part of me knows that finding someone else right away will only partially help with the shallow ego stuff.

 

I dont know how to accept that it is not all my fault....because I keep crucyfying myself for my mistake, and also feeling angry about her lies. But bottom line, I just feel rejected and not very big. I cant help thinking, i fi did this (more camping) or this (less mountain biking) or if I wa smore like this (assertive and spontaneous), but I like who I am for the most part, and I liked who i was with her most of the time

[Bounder]

And O I dont know when to stop analyzing and move on, and what memories to take with me. Help!

[saltwatergirl]

Well, you have had a lot of things going on here, I tried to wade through it and here is my best response. I myself have been the victim of a lying/cheating boyfriend. I was and am truly devastated. He did all of the things you mentioned, he tried to repent, he apologized, he allowed me to vent when feelings of anger came over me, and I put him through the ringer by bringing up the episode at EACH AND EVERY opportunity. We simply could not get past it, despite the perceived efforts on his part, because I was not ready to forgive. I say percieved because I doubt his intentions (as I doubt everything he now does). Anyway, I'm assuming yours were honorable so I'll continue as if his were too: I was angry and had lost all trust in him. I am now at the point where I am no longer a happy person. I still have nightmares about it, I still question in my mind every single thing he says to me, I still sit and think about it, wonder how he could do it, on and on. The mind is a strange thing. However, mentally and emotionally this is crippling me. I also lost a great deal of respect for him as a person. When that happens, it is difficult to recover from it. Perhaps this is her feeling as well. I dont know because I dont know her, but this is how I was feeling. And it mattered not what he did or said, the walls went up and never came back down, despite having moments of fun or what have you. As she has, I many times have said I was "over it" etc ready to put it behind me only to bring it up 2 days later, because that was me TRYING to do that, but UNABLE to. There is only so much one can control. We may try, but try and do are 2 different things. To risk giving your heart to the person who broke it is asking an awful lot of yourself and sometimes we just can't do it.

 

I totally understand the feeling of compromising her values and having doubts. I did the exact same thing. Its almost like being angry with yourself every time you hang up, thinking: i should not be talking to him. You feel as if you are disappointing yourself by taking this person back despite how they disrespected you. It is a battle within, and hard one, and eventually you must end it one way or the other, either forgive & forget, or move on. Apparently her choice was to move on. You cant blame her for that, she has to look out for #1 as you have proven that you are capable of hurting her.

 

2 years is a long time, if she was going to be able to forgive and accept you back she would have by now, in my opinion. Maybe she hasnt yet tried. My b/f would tell me all the time that he "cant do it all" and that "you havent tried", which was true. but I felt somehow that I should not have to "try and fix it" when I didnt break it!! Whether that is anger, or pain talking, it matters not. Point is I did not WANT to fix it, I wanted it the way it was and that was now impossible, and bottom line that made me mad, and she may feel the same way and has come to regret accepting you back. She may even resent you and the situation and feel like she became a "doormat". You and I know that is not the case, as you seem very sincere in wanting to fix what you did, but that may be how she feels all the same. Unfortunately, you know what is in your heart and mind but we outsiders are clueless and can only go by your past actions, not the "new and improved" model you present after the fact.

 

As far as her being with someone new, I cant really speak to that because I have yet to have any desire to get invoved with anyone else.

But possibly this is her way of "flushing you out of her system".

 

You cannot change what you did, and you need to forgive yourself for it. Learn from this mistake. We all make them. You are human. This person just chooses not to forgive, and that is her right. But you I am sure have learned a valuable lesson and probably have prevented yourself from damaging the next relationship you enter---one that may be "the one", so consider this a dry run as you prepare to meet someone new. You cant change the past, you can only learn from it.

 

As for analyzing and not being able to stop/sort through memories,etc: remember this: paralysis by analysis. In other words, you dont want to get so wrapped up in thoughts that you are paralyzed and CANT move on. Only you can make the mental decision to stop thinking about it. It is hard but occupy your time and thoughts with anything other than this situation. I have found yoga and starbucks to be very important now in my quest to heal, but you are a guy so, that advice probably isnt some you are going to take. Maybe the guys here can help more on that.

Salt

[Bounder]

Salt,

 

Thanks for the honest opinion. i know it is within her irghts not to forgive me, even 2 years later. I forgave myself, and trusted her to tell me what she needed fro me to help, but your right sometimes theres nothing you can do. But to turn around and lie and cheat, come back, and then lie again, which she has done in the 4 months? I know it mya be her lashing out.....and if it was just that, just anger at me, I could forgive her. I love this girl, and I know I wrecked a beautiful thing two years ago, but i felt we had built something better, not perfect, but we were building together. She told me that so many times, that not only would she need to forgive me, but I needed to forgive myself or we would never be able to work together.

 

I messed up and was honest about it...she hid behind my faults and history to cover her own lies and indiscretion. It is not a case of which is worse, they both hurt. Two wronngs dont make a right though, right?

 

She says she still loves me, that she realizes that she may be throwing away something amazing, and the last time we talked and I told her how much all this craziness has hurt my belief in her honesty, she said sarcastically, make this my fault (which I wasnt doing, just expressing my hurt) but I will know that I always loved you, and always will and its sad that you wont believe the same anymore.

 

I dont know what to think anymore, its so confusing.

[Bounder]

Oh man, she is online right now and I cant resist the urge to write her and tell her I miss her. I told myself I wouldnt though, unless it was something I was doing strictly for me and not in an effort to get her back or anything. I know if she contacts me though, I wont be able to shut it off. Maybe its still guilt, but I cant stay mad at her, I love her.

 

I made a mistake, she made mistakes. If she loves me though, is that enough?

[saltwatergirl]

You have paid enough pennance, done your time, served your sentence...you cannot have this held against you forever and your mistake does NOT give her carte blanche to run rampant over this relationship. This I have learned from my own experience....she does not have the right to play the martyr and act a fool all in the name of her suffering. She was a victim, however, she is continuing to be a victim because she is getting some reward for that role........what could that be? Attention from you? Seeing you hurt? Pride? Whatever benefit she gets from being the martyr you must remove, and you can bet she is getting some satisfaction somewhere or else she wouldnt do it...You must remove the reward she's getting....

Start here:

Forgive yourself and back away quietly. Dont announce you are backing away. just do it. Silence must be heard. If you simply MUST have some minimal contact: Do not continue to acknowledge your past with your pleas for forgiveness or with your promises of never doing it again, etc....this is a payoff she's getting and is why she is stuck in victim mentality. Dont speak of the past, and if she gets a shot in or out of the blue says something about it (like a dig at you, etc), ignore it. Dont agree,dont disagree, dont console, dont do anything. Ignore it. change the subject. If her payoff for being the victim is "attention from you" or hearing you grovel in your mistakes, you remove it by doing this. You must remove the reward.

 

Dont dwell on her and this man, etc. Dont bring it up, dont ask ?, dont even acknowledge it. If her payoff is "seeing you suffer", then you are removing that here.

 

Try to think of what else she may be "getting out of" being a martyr. You know her better than I and how your convo's go. Maybe its her pride. Maybe she gets it pumped up by your constant chasing after her, if so remove it.

Point is if you want her out of this martyr/victim mentality you must pinpoint and remove any reward she gets by doing it. And you must start pulling your own self together. You have the power to stop the pain and start the healing---it begins within you.

 

Salt

[Bounder]

Makes sense. I never thought she might be doing that for those reasons. Like it was a comfortable role or something. Can she ever be with me and get out of it?

[saltwatergirl]

Yes, however it will require you to stop rewarding the behavior and may even require you to let her "win". "You know, you're right I did a very bad thing, I hurt you terribly, and I don't think there is anything that I can ever do that would allow you to believe in me again."

 

Then leave. Silence. Let her "bask" in her victory, and she will. Until she realizes that she has won the battle but lost the war. At which point, she will call.

 

The only other possible outcome is that she never calls again. In which case, you were right. You can't recover from it. And so, you go on.

 

Salt

[Bounder]

We had a few comversation in the last few days, and I realized there was more going on than just the cheating. She has a lot of confusion in her life, and her feelings for me are part of that. Her feelings for me are still influenced by two years ago. She laid into me pretty heavey though, saying that I was too effeminate in how I held her hand, didnt take charge, tried to hard to accommodate her. She needed a MAN she said. That kind of hurt, I always thought that she liked that side of me. Anyways, after once more trying to "be there" for her I woke up frustrated the other day and realized it was not hekping me move on. We chatted online last night and she suggested NC. I said, iagree buyt I need to tell you why. Said that I was tired of playing thevictim in the break up, and that she should no longer play the martyr in the relationship. Ths would have to be my decision too.

 

I couldnt be her friend, listen to her, be there for her, it was all or nothing for now. I couldnt trust her again because she had lied to me, and thus had trouble picturing her as afriend as well. Said that I would call her about swapping the last of our stuff, and when I was ready, maybe we could talk, because this had not been my decision to end, and I needed time and space to get a handle on things.

 

It felt good, but now I feel kind of empty.

[saltwatergirl]

I really think you have done the right thing. I know you are feeling empty right now, I can relate to that very much. But, you have to keep yourself in mind here, too. You have to find your legs, and get back up on them. Everything is going to be alright, just stay strong and remember that you are doing this so that BOTH of you can move out of this state of mind and into a better one (even if that means you leave each other alone).

 

Salt

[Bounder]

Thank you salt. our advice has been very welcome and useful, though sometimes blunt. I just need to stay strong...so hard when I love her

[saltwatergirl]

You're welcome.

 

You are going to be fine. It seems as though it's all in her hands now, anyway. Maybe by your raising the white flag and letting her win, she will realize what I have come to realize, and that is this: Sometimes you have to decide if you would rather be "right" or would you rather be "happy". Right now she would rather be "right". But maybe in the wake of your absense, she will decide she'd rather be "happy". Maybe this is something you could ask her sometime. Which would she rather be?

Because she could end up being a very lonely, "right" person.

 

Also, I have come to realize that you dont have to get mad every time you have the right to be mad. You can choose to not be, you can choose to let the anger go, just because you have a right to sit there and be angry doesnt mean you HAVE to be. this might be something you could alert her too, as well. Alot of times, we don't realize the choice here. We think because we have the right to be mad, that we should be mad. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

 

Salt