the saga continues....just want some commments

[MGandV]

My problems continue. I feel lonely and depressed. My wife and I and our two young boys were at Disney World for a weeks vacation just last week. My in-laws (wife's sister and mother) went too. But the whole time we were there I was passive and acted quite distant from everyone. I just wasn't enjoying it there. It was hectic with two yong boys fighting and arguing alot and having to listen to my wife nagging and arguing with me for every little thing that just didn't go quite the way she wanted or expected. Not to mention my mother-in-law who has a way of making me feel like a horrible father by making little smart comments everytime I had to get after the boys when they got out of hand. I try very hard to not spoil my boys only because they have never learned to appreciate the things they do have nor how to respect their parents and the rules we have. I don't need grandma putting her two cents worth over how I treat my boys. I am a good father who loves his kids very much. But since I don't see my kids much during the week due to my working 2nd shift, my kids have become much more closer to their mother than me. And they would rather have their mother help them with things or do things with them. This shows only when we are all together. This hurts, but what hurts me even more is when they talk back to their mother or do something to her I don't think is appropriate, I will get after them and point it out to them what they did wrong. But my wife doesn't do the same when it is towards me. When we are all together, and I am trying to help my youngest son do something, or with something, he yells and says "I want mommy to do this, not you!" That's hurts. But my wife won't defend me. This happened while at DW. and when I pointed it out to my wife she just got mad at me and told me "What do you expect, I am their primary care giver!" That really hurt me so bad. I almost cried and I felt like leaving my wife right then. So I became distant from everyone at DW for fear of what I might say or do wrong in my wife's mind or my mother's-in-law mind. I felt like I was just a tag along while the kids were on vacation with mommy and their grandma and aunt.

 

Still feeling lack of affection and (positive) attention from my wife, something happened just this past Monday. We went grocery shopping at a supermarket that has a "food court" in it. We ended up having lunch there. We ended up sitting near another family group. My wife sat with her back towards them and I was facing them. I didn't pay much attention to them at first until I noticed there was a young woman about my age and another just a little younger passing glances at me. I don't know why. But the youngest one kept turning her eyes towards me. She was attractive. So I kept glancing at her too. I am shy and usually reserved, especially having my wife and kids with me, so when we would make eye contact I gave no expression and just turned my head away. We kept passing glances at each other the whole time we were there. Was there something about me she found attractive? I don't know. But when her family got up to leave, she turned towards me one more time. I looked at her and our eyes met. I just stared until she gave me this big beautiful smile. Then I got a little embarrased and looked away. That was it. She was gone. But the rest of the day I kept thinking about it. Playing the whole scenario in my head over and over. I kept thinking to myself, "a pretty stranger smiled at me." Just like a kid, it felt wonderful. But what drew her attention towards me at all, I will neve know. And what inspired a big smile like that, I will never know either. I wish I did.

 

I mentioned about that one woman I have been admiring from afar while picking up my boy from kindergarten. Well, nothing has changed. Today, the whole kindergarten classes had a end-of -the-year singing program. My wife and I went together and I saw that mother there too. But for the first time I saw her with her husband. I was actually a little upset over that. I was even more upset because i wanted to "see" her more and I couldn't. I was manning the video camera while my wife took pictures. That woman's husband was videotaping as well and he was up towards the wall while she was sitting down in the rows. I noticed her looking my way a lot. At the end of the program we got to visit our child's class until it was time for them to leave. That woman's daughter is in another class. But when we were leaving and walking towards the car I saw her in her car with her husband driving drive by. I watched without making it look conspicuous. Then I noticed her catching my attention. She bent alittle forward (to get a better view I am guessing) and she stared my way the whole time while passing and even turning her head to stay in view until I was out of her view completely. I sometimes feel that maybe she senses what I may be going through with my wife and that maybe she is going through the same thing. I know it is wrong, but if that is true I just want someone to be able to understand what I feel too. And have someone I can talk to.

[melrich]

What exactly is it that you are going through? Your kids turn to your wife first in times of distress and your mom-in-law takes little digs at you...all the while your wife does not stick up for you!!

 

Meanwhile you are eyeing off all the other young moms having days out with their families??

 

Look, you are a grown man. Your kids don't mean to hurt you. It is not personal, they just act instinctively. They also pick up on things you would not remotely believe they could. Like the fact that you were not into the whole family holiday thing.

 

Try making them the centre of your attention instead of all these young mothers you believe are checking you out. You'll find they respond much better towards you.

[MGandV]

No, I pay a lot of attention to my kids when I am with them. Even more so than my wife does when we are all together. Simply because my wife stresses over every thing that she has no control over or has lost control over (she needs to feel in control over everything) and she takes her stress out on me and the kids. While she is busy trying to control everything when we are all together I am having fun with the kids. (And I sometimes think she resents me for doing that and not doing something equally busy.) But I don't let them get away with bad behavior and have to correct them. And that is when I become the "bad parent" or the mean father. Hey, it does hurt when I try to spend as much quality time with them only to have them turn right around and call for mommy while I am in the middle of doing something for them and decide they would rather have her do it for them instead. A lot of times she is in the middle of something else important and ends up stopping because now the kid is practically whining for her to do it. So I just walk away.

 

And no, I am not going around eyeing off other young moms. The person at the store was not a mother at all for one thing. And the one that is a mother has been the only one I have taken noticed. I have a lot of issues with my marriage regarding (positive) attention from my wife. I have mentioned before the many times we have talked about our problems, but I can't change her. She has a completely different life now than when we first met. I am no longer the most important thing in her life. I keep blaming her "career" for that and the fact that she is very involved in it both at work and at home. But it is what she loves and she seems to thrive on the stress it causes. It is what makes her feel whole. How do I compete with that? She even brought her laptop with her on vacation.

 

I just want that feeling again. That feeling that I am important to someone. That I am the one thing that truly makes that person happy and that the kids are a bonus. I just don't feel that anymore. I want the attention. My whole life has been riddled with very little attention or affection. So when I get any at all from someone I can't help but get caught up in it. I don't do things to be cruel or mean or even hurtful to anyone. I don't like to think I ever hurt anyone at all. It isn't me. I am not out looking to get in bed with any other woman. I could care less about that. I hurt for attention. And a smile from a pretty stranger was attention that felt good. Was that wrong?I am not pompous or full of myself that I think every woman is checking me out. I am quite the opposite. But how do you explain the mother I seemed to have caught the attention of for some reason or another. I am sorry if the attention feels good. Is that so wrong to enjoy the attention, even if it is just glances? Nothing has come of it. And yeah I fantasize about talking to her and getting to know her, and maybe even thinking she might be going through the same thing. But like I said before, I do believe it is normal to fantasize about other people. Where is the harm. About the only harm it causes is the fact that that is all it is, just a fantasy and not real. Besides, today is the last day I will be picking up my boy from school since school is ending this Friday. So I probably won't even ever see her again. And my life will go on.

[MGandV]

Oh no! What am I doing??? Well, I didn't see her when I picked up my son. BUT, I mistakenly discovered where she lives now. Honestly, I wasn't even trying to find that out. I just saw her coming out and getting into her car. I know it must be her house because I would see her drive that direction after we would pick up our kids many times. Hey... I also remember, on a couple of occasions when she was behind me, that she would drive my way for awhile (a little out of her way from home) and then turn off onto another street that took her back to where her house is. I don't know. I think I might be getting a little obsessed with a total stranger. This is bad. Really bad. I need help don't I? In case you might be wondering, no, I won't be driving by her house for any reason whatsoever. I have a little more respect than that. Plus, I don't want to give anyone the impression I am a stalker. Hey, finding her house was purely an accident.

[melrich]

Yes you really do need to get help because I think you are potentially heading down a very ruinous path. Some how you have to map out the rest of your life with a slightly longer term view.

 

If you are so desperately in need of attention and there is no way that your wife is going to satisfy that need, get out of the marriage because unless one of you change it will not last. Your kids wil pick up on the fact that you are unhappy and that will cause issues for them.

 

Your really have to decide. Stay in the marriage and commit totally to it and all that that means or get out now whilst you are still relatively "clean" and start seeking what it is you feel you need.

 

The worst thing you could do id to stay and AND keep looking for someone who will give you attention and affection.

[MGandV]

Thanks, Richgabe for not "bashing" me for what I have been doing.

 

I have been contemplating getting out of the marriage for about a year now. I am not happy. I am truly hurting inside. I believe she isn't happy either. I don't think my wife and I have much of a connection anymore. We have trouble holding a conversation when we go out alone. We don't do "fun" things together much or hardly laugh. I love affection and she just isn't that affectionate. We had a talk one day and she said she can tell I am not happy and knows she and the kids aren't making me happy. (She is wrong about the kids). She wanted to know why. I wanted to tell her it was because of my longing for affection and attention but I was afraid to tell her that. I am almost embarrased by that and don't want to sound selfish. Plus I didn't want to put blame on her. Then she said if I wasn't happy with them then I could leave. She was in tears while saying this. I started to feel a sense of freedom for a chance to truly find what I long for so desperately, but I felt guilty for thinking that way. So I gave other reasons that seemed "easier" to understand and deal with. I just couldn't find it in me to break a family apart and hurt someone so badly just because I can't seem to find a way to be happy.

 

So many people talk about counseling. I have wanted to go to counseling so many times. I have even expressed this with my wife, but I don't think she ever took it that seriously. (She has been down that road before with her father for reasons I would rather not say, and it made no difference. In fact she resented them and wouldn't cooperate.) But counseling isn't free. If it was I would have gone a long time ago for lots of reasons, including my marriage.

 

So I am here torn apart within myself because I find myself unhappy and longing for something I am only afraid I will never find within my marriage but not wanting to tear a person's heart as well as a family apart. I feel spiritually drained as well over the whole thing. I just don't know what to do.

[newts]

Hi MGandv,

 

Unfortunately the grass isn't greener on the other side. You have children and a wife which you don't seem to have a connection anymore. I would strongly suggest you talk to her and tell her how you truly feel, yes it will crush her. Don't spare her feelings out of your own guilt on fantasising about other woman. She needs to understand that the relationship is at a stage where there maybe no turning back and that she does have to take you seriously when you suggest the 2 of you need counselling.

 

I would strongly suggest counselling before you act upon your desires.

 

Good luck.

[MGandV]

The kids and I are great. But that is only true when it is just them and me. But when my wife and I are together, that is when they are different. They probably do sense the "tention" she and I have. The kids act on that I can tell. It's a sad thing.

 

I am a big believer in marriage. I don't like the idea of divorce at all. I am a Christian and I have been struggling hard spiritually and morally over this whole thing. (Being a Christian is a lot harder than it seems and it doesn't mean I am not still human either.) Counselling might be a good thing, but I am already at the point where I almost don't even care. This has been going on for so long I have lost feelings for my wife already. I have known her for 10 years and have been married to her for 6 going on 7. Does the "7 year itch" have anything to do with this???

 

But like I said my initial and biggest problem is my lack of attention and affection. These have been going on since childhood. The feelings run deep and they truly hurt a lot. I don't know if people "get it" or understand that. I know I am a grown man but my pain is old and it is still there. Only there have been years added to it making the pain even stronger the older I get and the longer I have been waiting to get it. I am embarrased to talk about wanting attention or affection. They seem like such a childish thing to feel or want. Not to mention vain and selfish. But it hurts a lot. I am not looking for greener grass, but if I get attention from somewhere else, I have a very hard time just ignoring it. How do I ignore something I desire so badly?

[MGandV]

I can see people are not responding to this as much as I wish they would. Wow! Even in a message-board people don't pay attention to me! Just kidding. Maybe people just don't understand my problem.

 

Well, it has been about 4 days (with 2 weekend days to spend with the whole family) since I have "seen" that one woman. You know, I don't think I will really see her again. And I thought I was already coming to terms with that idea. During the day time when I was "busy" I didn't think about her much. But every night I thought about her. Obsessively. I mean, she is an almost complete stranger. Why do I feel this way??? Why do I think about her so much?

 

I have been running all the scenes in my head over and over about the things she would do-the glances, the eye contact, the questionable drives behind me going out of her way then turning to another road when she could have taken a shorter route to her house. Sounds a little childesh, I know. But adults will do childesh things too for attention, or recognition.

 

All I know is I am not happily married and I have a very strong attraction towards this other married woman. And like I said, it isn't about looks. It's like I feel something for her. I look at her (when I could) and I just FEEL something. I have never felt this way ever towards any other woman before. I know a lot of people would try to convince me otherwise, but I truly sense that maybe she feels the same thing. I honestly do. "Now", you say, "how can that be from just seeing each other?" I understand the doubt, but how can I explain this "feeling". A strong feeling. Maybe it is a 6th sense kind of thing. Maybe a spiritual thing. I just don't understand it myself. There is a strong "vibe" there. Something I have never felt before. Honestly.

 

I know we have never said a word to each other except that very first day we "met" when I thought she was this other man's wife while he was talking to my wife. But I felt an immediate attraction to her. She was quiet and didn't say a word as if to feel left out of the conversation as I did. Even then I noticed her looking at me. Since I thought she was his wife because she was standing next to him I decided to acknowledge her and I smiled and said "Hi!" She did the same thing.

 

Does anyone understand this? Anyone?

[Hope75]

It seems as though something is definitely lacking in your marriage, or you wouldn't have wandering eyes and these fantasies about these casual encounters with other women being more than they are.

 

It would seem to me that since you are indeed a Christian and a true believer in marriage that what you really should do is talk to your wife about the change in your feelings, and then together seek counselling to get to the root of the problem and see what can be done to remedy it.

 

Your complaints about the marriage and children seem pretty standard to me and nothing that doesn't come with the usual territory of a marriage, and I think if you ultimately would like to keep your family together you are going to have to open up to your wife about this and go from there.

 

I agree with Richgabe that if you chose the alternative you are headed for disaster, infidelity will not only hurt your wife and children, but you as a Christian who knows what the sanctity of marriage means and should know better.

 

Just some food for thought.

[melrich]

Have you spoken to your wife about how serious this is for you? I mean have you told her that you have been having thoughts of leaving? If not, it may be time to broach it with her, a shock like that may just be the catalyst your marriage needs.

 

Just a thought on your other option, leaving the marriage. When you way this up, don't think about teh next 2 or 3 years, think about the possible consequences when you are 50 or 60. I am certainly not an advocate of people staying in marriages that are unhappy but I do think too mant people make the decision to get out without thinking about the longer term. Try not to focus too much on the "now".

[MGandV]

I have not spoken to my wife about these problems at all. I am almost ashamed of them. But I know I will need to eventually. I really don't want to go on feeling like I do.

 

 

Today was a mixed bag of emotions. We woke up a little early because our 3-year-old needed to go to the bathroom and was calling "Mommy!" Then he went back to sleep afterwards. But then we were both awake. She talked about needing to clean her office really bad and had already mentioned it last night that she wanted to get to work early today to do that. Normally I wouldn't mind since I am not a morning person and I have a hard time getting up in the morning anyways. But today I was awake. She stayed in bed for a couple of minutes. Then she said she didn't know whether to stay in bed with me or go to the office to get it cleaned. I thought to myself, "is that really something that hard for her to decide?" Well, she decided she needed to clean her office. So she got up, got dressed and left to work.

 

Later that afternoon she called to ask if I wanted to go to lunch with her. I said "yes." (I work 2nd shift) So we did and it was actually nice. The conversation was few but then she started talking about something I was very interested in. Our oldest son of 6 years has been in gymnastics class for the past 10 months. He is in a couple of other sports but this one is his favorite. I don't get to see him in class much because of my scheduling but I can see muscles developing in his arms and upper body already. And every once in awhile the living room furniture and floor ends up becoming a gym. What I see him do at home he seems to be doing great. He has just been in the beginning level with both boys and girls, but he got a chance to join in the boys class for an evening the other night. My wife said he was doing everything the other boys were doing and that he was actually doing some of the things better than they were. She talked about how she could see his muscles thghten on some of the maneuvers. It was so exciting to hear all of this. She asked the coach if he thought he was ready for this level and he just said it was up to our son if he wanted to join this class. It was a bit more challenging and that would mean he would skip a whole level. Our boy said, as he was sweating, he liked this much more than the other class. So we are going to have him join that class. I am VERY proud of him. My wife told me he is already the best one in his class. That conversation made up for the rest of the outing.

 

Overall my wife was in a cheery mood so it made the time out nice.

 

Now back to that other woman. I am now just trying to understand what was really going on, if anything at all was going on, with her. I am trying to figure out what was the purpose of the glances and other things. It would make me feel better about the whole situation if I can just understand it. Maybe those glances and eye contact were about recognizing me from somewhere or something and she just can't seem to remember. I mean, there is this woman we didn't know come up to us a few years ago and recognized us from lamaze classes. She remembered our names and both our boys were already over 2 years old. I hadn't a clue who she was and still don't remember seeing her there. Now the two boys are good friends. We live in a pretty small town and since the woman I have been paying attention to has a daughter the same age as my son, she might have been in that class as well. Who knows.

 

I also found out something about her today as well. We have a student/parent directory for the elementary schools and since I know where she lives, I found out her name. I also found out she has a 9-year-old as well. Her two kids have one last name and she has a different one. So she either had them out of wedlock (which wouldn't bother me anyway) or she was previously married, had kids with that man,got a divorce and remarried. The latter idea turns me off already. I know this sounds all too obssessive and even a little scary for some. But I just want to know why the attention. What would cause a person to pass glances and even stare at me like that? It's like she knows me, but she can't seem to figure out how, where, or why. I am beginning to think maybe I might know her or have seen her somewhere before too. "....once upon a dream." Perhaps?!

[melrich]

I don't think you are doing yourself any favors here. In the one breathe you talk about family and feeling proud of your kids and in the next you talk about this otehr woman.

 

You need to resolve the first issue first...your unhappiness with your marriage. You should not feel ashamed about this. I don't think there would be too many people in a long marriage that would not go through stages of dissatisfaction. Some like, you, cannot see an easy resolution.

 

Well you have to talk to her about it. It is only fair to her as well and believe me she will know something is not right and is probably sitting there scared to bring it up as well. Most people avoid conflict for the fear of the ramifications it will bring. "if I ignore it it will go away". It won't.

 

If your marriage breaks down because you develop a relationship with someone else the consequences will be far more dramatic than if you talk about your issues with your wife and resolve the situation one way or another.

[MGandV]

Thanks for the advice. Honestly. I have personal problems I truly need solved. A lot of them stem from years ago. It is so much easier talking about this and hearing opinions and advice than it is to really follow what people say. But at least I get to talk about it and listen.

 

Yesterday I saw her again at the farmer's market. I wanted to get some flowers and a few produce and wasn't expecting to see her there. But she was and she parked right next to my car. She was with her kids and there was no eye contact, but just a few passings by. I got a little nervous but that was it. I still feel the attraction but I was a little calm about it. I can't avoid seeing her at places. We do live in a small town of only 5000 people. As long as neither of us say anything to each other, I think I will get over her. I don't think about her as much anymore.

[Hope75]

So will you ever talk to your wife about this? About feeling like something is missing in the relationship with her?

 

It's normal to have "crushes" while you are in a long term relationship or marriage, as long as they stay just that, crushes. When you start thinking about destroying your family to act on them is when you run into trouble.

 

I really think you need to talk with your wife about the way you feel, it's great to use us as a sounding board to prepare, but she is the one that you have issues with, and she is only one who can work with you together to see if you can make it right.

[lisica]

Hi MGandV,

 

I remember one of your previous posts too. I like your writing style a lot. I can almost feel what you are going through, because you described it so well. Throughout your messages, what stands out, is your craving for attention. Not only from your wife, but now also from your children who turn more to their mom than to you, because they are more used to being with her.

 

You are creating a whole fantasy about another woman to make yourself feel better. For instance, you imagine that she is going through something similar as you, so you do not feel so alone anymore. I do not disapprove of that, and noone should - it is a normal reaction to give yourself some strength and some joy to continue. It is far more healthy than for instance start drinking to forget your problems.

 

But you do realize that she is a fantasy woman you are creating there, right, and that you either need to solve the problems in the relationship with your wife, or get out of the marriage. Both options are about giving yourself the chance to be fully happy again, and you deserve that.

 

I think you should gather your courage and have a real talk with your wife as soon as possible. Get over your embarrassement, talk with her, and assess if she can ever be again like she was at first, giving you all the attention you need so much. Your wife told you that if you are not feeling happy with her and the children, you can leave. What does she mean by that? Is she saying it because she does not care about you anymore, or because she feels your unhappy but she is at loss about what to do, or did she blurt it out when she was angry or stressed?

 

When you are considering leaving your wife, think about how it will be with the children. If they stay with their mom, you will probably see them even less. They will turn even more to their mom and give you even less attention.

 

It is not an easy situation and I wish you all the best to find a solution.

[MGandV]

Thank you, Lisica, for the compliment.

 

As you can tell, I haven't posted anything here lately. I guess I have been keeping myself too busy to think about my "problems." I am home alone during the mornings until about 1:15 pm. That's when I leave for work. What about the kids? Well, they go to daycare (youngest) and "day camp" (oldest). So why aren't they home when I am home? Part of it is we have to pay for it whether they are there or not. If not, then they would just get bumped out to let another kid in to take their place. There is always a waiting list to get in. They have both been in the whole system since they were 6 months old and that is what they are used to. Their friends are there and they have benefitted from it in a very positive way. I have always felt guilty about it the whole time, since I feel they have lived most of their waking lives away from home and I have always wanted to spend even more time with them, but having them home just would have been too complicated with both my wife's and mine schedule. I did work mornings when they both started going and it wasn't until over a year ago that I ended up on second shift. So it did work out better for all of us having them there.

 

Keeping busy...that is what I have been doing. Since it is summer time I have been busy planting flowers and doing yard work. Not to mention doing housework as well. Can you believe I do most of the house work? Yes, I do. I hardly go anywhere when I am home. I have a tendency to feel guilty when I am not home being busy. I sometimes feel I live an isolated life. I have no interaction with anyone. And when I go to work, I work alone. I am an assistant lab manager who manages no one. (At one time I did) I am the sole worker in the lab at night. I hate it.

 

Well, my point actually is that I haven't had time to dwell on problems, or on "that woman." That and not seeing her much has helped a lot. My wife and I have been getting along quite well the past week and a half. She seems to be in better moods lately. And when she is in a good mood I am in a good mood. But that doesn't mean those feelings of loneliness are not still there. I have just been suppressing them.

 

Lisica, you are completely right about my fantasizing. I have done that my whole life. It was always my way of coping with things or situations. It was what made me feel better. I have gotten through my whole life straight and sober. I have chosen to be that way. No matter what crap came my way I dealt with it or fantasized my way through it. I often feel I am a much stronger person than I might give myself credit for.

 

Got to go now. My wife and I are going somewhere during her lunch break.

[MGandV]

We finally had that talk. We had a very long discussion last night and I finally told her about my problem with lack of attention and affection. Things were said and things were revealed, and there was a lot of understanding. I finally realized how much my wife truly knows me and how much she is madly in love with me. Then I confessed to her and said how much I love her (I truly do) but that I don't think I am in love with her. She said she might be stupid but that she was willing to do anything she can to get me to fall in love with her. I know, that sounds a little crazy. But I AM everything to her. She just doesn't want to lose me. Anyway, we "made up' and then "made out." And we didn't get but maybe 2 1/2 hours of sleep at the most.

 

So this morning we got up feeling extremely tired and...well, sore! But at the same time, I felt a little sick to my stomach. Like I did something so wrong and was feeling guilty for it. In spite of everything we said last night, I didn't feel much different this morning. In fact, I almost felt worse. Like I am still holding something back from her. She couldn't quite understand the whole attention thing. She thought she was giving me a lot more of her time and attention since the last time we "talked." And for some baffling reason, I still feel an emptiness. I don't even know how to put it all into words about what I truly mean by "attention."

 

All I know is I still hurt a lot inside because of it. And the only way I can understand it myself is this: we have neighbors who are also married and with a child the same age as ours. We have all been friends. But there were many occasions when Nicki (the neighbor) and I would get to talking to each other for long periods of time. Alone. We shared a lot of the same interests and thoughts. We would joke with each other and kid around with each other. We were always a little playful, which suggests flirting. We really enjoyed the conversations and flirting. And I of course LOVED that kind of attention. I am a very nice person and can be very sweet when talking to women. I don't do it in vain just to get attention, I am just normally that way around women. That is just the kind of person I truly am inside. So when that person acknowledges who I am and responds positively towards it, I get the attention I want. Nicki has always acknowledged me and that is why I enjoy her company.

 

I have been know to do very sweet things for girls/women. I remember when I was a little younger there was a girl who worked at a center kiosk at the mall. I didn't really know her but I started striking up a conversation with her. Next thing you know it everytime I would go to the mall and see her working I would always talk to her. I would ask her how she was doing, about her her daughter (she had just had a little girl), or even about her boyfriend. And she always talked to me. One day, we were talking and she said she was so thirsty for a Coke but since she was working by herself she couldn't really leave the place to get anything to drink. We stopped talking and then I walked away. Then I came back a few minutes later and surprised her with a drink. She gave me a big smile and asked me if that was for her. I told her "Yes!" Then she thanked me but that I "really didn't have to do that." I just told her I wanted to. It all made me feel so good inside.

 

So why do I not feel this way with my wife? Is it me? She apparently understands who I am. Why can't we have "fun" conversations? Why don't I feel her acknowledgement? The acknowledgment that would allow me to receive the attention I crave. Am I not allowing myself to open up to her enough? If so, why not? Does she not respond to me the way I keep hoping she would? Or am I that selfish to have such expectations that I need to wait for the right response or acknowledgment first in order "feel it"??? Such questions I cannot find the answers to. Who am I!?

[lisica]

I am happy for you that you had that important conversation with your wife. It seems that you have a strong relationship with her, because you love each other and you are willing to understand each other. It is normal that the feeling of "being in love" fades over the years, and it is precious if that gets replaced by a feeling of "love" instead of disappearing into nothing.

 

If I were you, I would put a sincere effort into turning your relationship back into a happy and fulfilling one for both of you. Because you have an important fundament, namely love, and because you owe it to your children.

 

How was it in the beginning, did you feel you were getting attention from your wife before you were married? What changed over the years? How can you return? What are the things you used to do that you do not do anymore?

[MGandV]

OK, things were wonderful at first, as anything new usually is. All we had were each other. We did eveything together, went everywhere together and we enjoyed it all. But there were already issues within myself that were taking their toll on me.

 

Issue 1: I moved over 1000 miles away from my whole family and friends and anything that I knew or were familiar with to be with her. I thought it would be sooo easy. But it was actually very hard. I missed my family very, very much and I had a nephew and a neice I loved so much, but soon realized I was no longer going to be able to be there to play with them anymore. That was almost 11 years ago. Now they are 19 and 17 years old.

 

Issue 2: Guilt, guilt, guilt! I was living with a woman out of wedlock. I mentioned I was a Christian. Well, I felt a huge spiritual battle going on in my heart. It was eating me up inside to feel I was letting God down, and going against everything I believed in.

 

 

Issue 3: After having a life of feeling left out, or ignored, and being picked on and made fun of, getting no positive attention from most people (especialy girls), all of a sudden they are noticing me and starting to pay more attention to me. Can we say "infidelity" already?

 

Case in point: I worked at a high rise apartment building that was being used by all of the local tech schools for student housing. And most of the students were girls. Oh! My wife was the librarian/information tech person for one of them. And a couple of them used to talk to me a lot. One of them invited me to her room. The only thing that happened was a kiss. That was all and that was the only time that happened. The other one used to just flirt with me. But then there was one particular person who started to really like me. Only she was the receptionist in the office. Both me and my girlfriend (at the time) worked at downtown Pittsburgh. I got out of work about an hour before she did and I would just hang out until it was time for me to pick her up and go home. I started going to the office and I would just talk to that girl. The boss never said anything against it. Besides it was the end of her work day and not much was going on at the time. So we would just talk about different things, things we had in common and things we liked to do. She had a boyfriend (And a daughter! What is it with me and mothers???) We both liked to do a lot of the same things that neither of our significant others liked to do. She was very sweet to me and she treated me like I was someone special. There were a lot of other men who worked there too, but she never paid much attention to them, and was actually very shy with them. When we had gatherings or hoilday parties, she was always by my side, either sitting next to me, or standing next to me. Needless to say, I started to like her too. One day I got to work a little early and so did she. I was sitting in the recreation center just waiting for my time to clock in and then she came in. I leaned against the pool table and we were talking, but she was standing very close to me. I felt a little embarrased because there were security cameras around the room and we both knew the security crew. I started talking about how I was going to be taking a trip to TX to see my family the following week. She seemed so excited and interested because she had never been there. Then she asked me to send her a post card, or even a souvenir, and she gave me her address. Then she gave me her phone number and told me to give her a call as soon as I get there to let her know I got there safely. I couldn't believe she gave me all that information. But I was kind of excited about it. Well, I ended up losing both her number and address quickly. And when I got back after two weeks she was not around. I did get her somehing. But that whole week she wasn't there. She was out sick. And while she was out, management was bought out by another company and the whole management crew was let go and replaced by new people. No more talking to her in the office. But when she finally came back, something had changed. She no longer wanted to talk to me anymore. In fact she did everything to avoid me like a plague. It was like she was so angry with me. If she started to see me walking towards her in the hall, she would turn right back around. It really hurt. It hurt even more because she never gave me an explanation and I couldn't even get near enough to her to ask her about it.

 

Why did I tell that story? Because even then I felt something was missing, and it took someone like her to fill it. Not my girlfriend. So why did I stay with my girlfriend? I don't know. I felt I had already made a commitment and I did not want to hurt her so bad. When we got married, I got choked up seeing her so beautiful in her wedding dress walking my way to marry ME. I almost cried in the middle of the ceremony because I could not believe someone loved me that much to marry me.

 

If you were to look at our marriage, or even at our whole relationship from the beginning to now, you would never think anything is wrong. We have been with each other from all the good things and all of the bad things. We seem to truly compliment each other. We have a nice home with everything we could possibly want. We have always done everything together and you never see us go to places alone. Well, until now that is. We have two beautiful kids who are doing so well in school/daycare. And they have a happy childhood. I should be happy too, right?

RIGHT??? So why do I keep feeling this way? I can't shake this feeling. I just can't. It is there. It won't go away. Is it that much a part of me that if I let it go I will feel I have lost a part of me as well? Moses, Moses, Moses (that's me)! What have I done to myself?

[Hope75]

I think it was a big step that you confronted your wife with your feelings and had a long talk about it. She seems quite willing to work with you and see this marriage through.

 

I think your next step is marriage counselling, so you can get to the root of your feelings, and find out why your wife thinks she is giving you enough attention and you don't feel that way. Someone else posted that when a relationship grows and matures for a long period of time that the "butterfly" feelings tend to fade and are replaced with much stronger, deeper feelings of mutual care and respect, comradship and love.

 

We talked about this in my class last week. Falling in love is just that, setting the stage for a long term commitment, which develops into something more. After we are "in love", love becomes a verb, and action that we carry out every day. It needs to be nurtured and cared for, actively, and appreciated. It would seem that you are spending so much time thinking about other women and why you can't devote your attention to your wife that you aren't doing your part to nurture your love either.

 

I think that part of this is that you are now used to your wife always being there for you, and you are taking her for granted. You seem to enjoy the thrill of the chase, and of flirting and getting attention from different women. You are done chasing your wife; she has been with you through thick and thin for a long time.

 

The questions you are posing to us here are questions you really should be asking a marriage counselour, in your wife's presense.

 

Would you be willing to go?

[lisica]

Marriage counseling and therapy are not at all as common in Europe as they seem to be in US. Many posters here advice couples to go into marriage counseling. I wonder to what extent it really is such a miracle solution...

 

MGandV, did you have any other long term relationships before you met your wife?

[avman]

Marriage counseling is not a miracle solution. It is simply another method to try and work on marital issues. Couples who aren't committed to resolving their issues won't have much success with marriage counseling.

[MGandV]

First of all thanks for all of your responses. You probably think I am her all day, but I am not. Right now I am at work on my lunch (dinner) break. I work alone and I am in front of a cumputer most of the time. So no one even sees what I am writing.

 

I am not always thinking about other women. There has only been one other woman I have though a lot about. She is the woman that inspired me to start posting my thread here. And the reason I thought a lot of her was because she was a a beautiful mystery I felt I wanted to solve. And guess what? Because I have not seen her around lately, I don't even think about her the way I did when I WAS seeing her around. The mystery isn't solved, I just can no longer find any more hints of evidence.

 

And to let you all know, I don't go out "seeking" other women. I really don't. I will react to a person who gives me a smile, or to someone who starts talking to me. I am a nice person and I don't like to ignore people. I only enjoy people's company and attention when they allow me to be myself and and still acknowledge who I am as a person when I am being myself. Does that make sense?

 

The "thrill of the chase!" I like how that sounds. Exciting! I don't chase women either. I only did that once in my life, when I was in the 8th grade. But she was just a girl (not a woman) at the time. And although I got the girl, I think it was only because she felt sorry for me. It didn't last very long of course. Hey, we were kids. But even back then feelings are still real. Well, she was like a romantic dream to me. So when she broke up with me it took me almost three years to fully recover. Honestly. It just taught me that if they were truly interested in me, then they would "chase" me. Funny how I was hardly ever pursued until I met my wife. But there was never a chase. We met on AOL. We talked through IM and email, then the phone. Then she went down to meet me and spent a whole week with me traveling around South Texas. She left. And a couple of months after that I moved away to be with her. Thus began my whole new life. During our "talk" we just had a couple of nights ago, she told me she fell in love with me right away. I find that hard to believe.

 

You say I enjoy getting attention from different women. What man wouldn't? I enjoy attention period. I enjoy talking to people, men and women, but I have a hard time talking to men because I don't talk a lot about the things men would talk about. I love cars but only because I understand them and how they work (in a geeky kind of way). I was never good in sports and I don't really care about any specific football team or NASCAR, or hockey. About the only sport I truly enjoy watching is basketball, and that is only because I like the San Antonio Spurs. And I don't know too many men around me who care that much about it. I respect women a lot. So I don't like "locker room" talk in regards to women. I don't like to hear the term "my old lady", or the b word or any sexual references about them. I just can't talk like that. So I find it easier to talk to women. Or let me put it in another way, they find it easier to talk to me and relate to me more. And that is the recognition I like and the attention I enjoy-being able to be myself and have someone enjoy my company as well because of that. Once again, do I make sense?

 

I have wanted to do couseling for a long time. I have mentioned it to my wife many times. But she hates counseling and don't feel it helps much. She went through it once as a child and didn't like it at all. She wouldn't cooperate and it was because she knew what the problem was, she just thought counseling was not needed. But thanks to this web site and to all of you people who have responded, I feel I have been getting counselled anyway. Because I have been able to write about all this and hear what other's had to say, this has allowed me to really dig deep into myself to figure out what I am going through and why. Believe me, this has allowed me to pin-point that my problem has always been about attention. I couldn't figure it out at first. But now I know that is what it is.

 

Lisica, to answer your question- no, but she did. She was the only person I have ever had sex with too. I did have something close to a long term relationship. She was my best friend. I met her when I was in the 10th grade at a choir competition meet. It was held at my high school. I was a participant. I was just sitting alone and this girl from afar kept looking at me. I finally got the courage to go up to her. We started talking and she was very nice to me. I felt comfortable right away. Later that day when competitions were over, we exchanged phone numbers and I called her up right away. We talked for hours as if we knew each other already. We became instant friends. She had a boyfriend, but she started to like me too. I did too. Next thing you know I am visiting her at her apartment where she lived with her family. We would go outside by the pool and talked. A few times she tried to kiss me but I would turn my head because I didn't feel right knowing she had a boyfriend. Even though at the beginning we started to like each other, we became the very best of friends instead. I want to emphasize THE BEST OF FRIENDS. We became very very close friendship wise. Even though she still had that same boyfriend all through high school, we could not stay away from each other. We loved each other's company so much. We loved each other, and cared about each other. But nothing sexual or physical ever happened; nor did we "date." Our strong friendship lasted all through high school and even when I went away to college. (She and her boyfriend broke up the same night she graduated.) Until, one night....Knowing how much I truly loved her and how I was falling in love with her, something just clicked between us. And I asked her. I asked her to marry me. She was confused. She talked about our friendship and was so afraid of losing that. Then I just asked her again. She said "yes." BUT, on one condition. We were to finish college first to make sure we started off "stable." It sounded reasonable, or maybe I was just gullible. I didn't care. I was so happy. Happy that the one I saw as my soul mate was going to marry me. The one I fell in love with. I went to college a happy guy. I was in heaven. We would talk on the phone about it. Then slowly she stops talking about it. Slowly she doesn't seem that exstatic about it anymore. Then it finally hit me. The "wedding was off." I was never the same again. we were still friends, but not like we were. We still cared about each other a lot but it just wasn't the same. I met my wife. She meets my friend. And we go off on our own separate lives. Then I lost contact with her.

 

But the story doesn't end. A year ago I found her through a membership website. I emailed her and she was so happy to hear from me. She told me what has happened since we last heard from each other. It was then that she finally expressed her feelings for me. She told me she finally realized the person she truly loved and fell in love with was someone who was always standing right in front of her. Me. She told me she missed me so much and regrets never giving me or our love a chance. When she told me this, I went a little crazy. It took me for a spin. We are still friends and we email each other every once in awhile. And as long as I don't think to much about it, I have been able to deal with the revelation.

 

Okay, I said enough for now.

[MGandV]

I have noticed I have been writing as if I am telling my life's story, including my present one. I was supposed to be asking for some help in advice or opinions, right? Well, I think I have been helped. Not to say I don't still need any help. I am just grateful to be able to write about all of this somewhere and have people "listen". And I know you have listened because the numbers tell me. Maybe some of you have a story such as mine and that was why you read all of this. Maybe some of you needed similar advice and was just afraid to ask for it. I did the same thing at first. I just read and thought "hmmm...I can relate." Then I finally decided to write what I was going through and see what happens. Attention. You see, I got attention. (Now what does that have to do with this???) But most of all, I got some feedback. That's what I wanted. And it helped. I really did and it does.

 

Now that I said all that. Back to this story. One thing I didn't mention here when it came to the "talk" with my wife was that I did mentioned to her about my old best friend and what she told me. My wife has always suspected my friend didn't like her because she "took me away from her." That was never true. My friend never had anything against her. My friend had always respected me (for the most part) and my decisions. In spite of what feelings might have always been there, she was still my "best friend." My wife did ask me if I said the same things to her when she revealed her feelings to me. I told her I did. I told her at the time I was very confused and everything was so overwhelming to me. It was hard. Then my wife got very upset and started to cry. Obviously the reaction I was expecting. I told her that I am over all of that and that I just could never truly feel the same way abou her anymore. Then she asked me if there was anyone else I was in love with. I honestly told her "no." And I do mean that.

 

Well just the other night I was online and found my friend was connected to IM. We started IMing each other. The one thing about my friend that makes me truly believe that no matter how much I care about her, or even love her, I don't think I would ever want to be with her. She really has changed over the years. Most of the changes have been bad. Some of them have been no changes at all that makes her just as less "appealing" to me. Where I have grown and matured, and have moved on with my life in a pretty damn good way, she never left her old life. In fact, she became worse in some aspects of her life. I can never be with someone like her anymore. My heart feels for her because I know she is very depressed and lonely and the one person that could make her happy would be me, but I don't think I could be happy with her the way she is now. We will always be friends. I will always love this person, but never the same as before.