GF and marriage pressure (Updated ... sort of)

[VictorWard]

Did you discuss what was going to happen when you moved in together?

Not really. The way that worked was, I was thinking about it, and she would cry whenever I told her that I was thinking about it. It was definitely rushed. I have already posted a thread about my weakness to tears elsewhere in the forum. Feel free to read the following link: link removed

In summary, she has been using her tears to get things for a while. It wasn't really until a little while ago that I realized it. She was manipulating me with her tears.

 

Thanks to the people who were active in that thread (and this one too), I've been able to stand my ground better when she tries to manipulate me. It would have been nice to have figured this out before signing the lease, but it's too late for that now.

 

As for the timeframe issue, I am not going to be giving anything specific. It's obvious to me now that she had her own agenda the entire time and she never told me. I can't just change the way I feel to make her happy, not when it comes to something as big as marriage.

[amanda22]

iread your post but not everyone elses so forgive me if i repeat something. she sounds pushy. if she is pushy about this she may get pushier once she 'has you for sure'. how long have you two been going out? you said she has been pushing about a year now. i know you love her but she has to be patient. how many people have you gone out with before her??? and yes you are both VERY young. you will know when the time is right. if you have doubts, which you do, dont do it. if she loves you, she has to understand. (can it have anything to do with culture by any chance?)

[d346]

I read a little bit from your previous post -and saw how you guys ended up living together.

 

You can continue to butt heads and ultimately break up...is that what you want? (actually, you need to really think about that, because maybe that is what you want...)

 

I also suggest that you do a little soul searching and think about your time frame (for your OWN purposes). When you figure it out, you should approach her and say ("I've been thinking long and hard about it, and I really will not be ready to get married until x years from now. I'm looking to first go to grad school, advance my career, mature, (whatever it may be). Can you wait this period of time?" You should tell her you don't need an answer right away, but that she as well should think long and hard about it (that way tears don't get in the way). Based on her answer you have to act appropriately. If she says "no" it's probably best to break up, but at least it wouldn't be hostile or a result of an ultimatum. Or you can see what you can make work -perhaps move to separate places, slow things down a bit.

 

Maybe on the other hand, she'll think about "x years", and think about what she would do with herself in the meantime. Maybe she'll realize that there are valuable things she can do with herself in this time, whether it's finish school, start school, fulfill career goals, etc. If this is the case, she may really be able to wait. But she needs to start thinking about this.

[Princess777]

Communication IS the key here. You need to talk with her but don't allow her to rope you into a timeframe. Yes you need to be sensitive to her needs but NO you don't need to say "I'll be ready in 5 years". How do YOU know if you'll be ready in 5 years? A lot can change. I say have a "chill out" talk with her.... tell her that she's taking the relationship and ruining it by trying to get you to do something that you don't feel like you're in a position to handle right now. Tell her it's not a personal attack to her, and that you love her, but her pressure is causing you to feel really turned off and you don't want this issue to break you two up. If you tell her the truth, and she still pressures you then she is not listening to your concerns and is being selfish. You are NOT being selfish by waiting, you are being SMART...... you don't owe her a timeframe at all. You're not ready, and that's the way it is. She's the one being harsh here, NOT you.

[Princess777]

Another note: She should be thanking her lucky stars you haven't hit the road YET. Most guys who get pressured to the point that you have would have dumped her a long time ago. You must really love her to stick around and try to work it out.... try to explain this to her.... try to figure out what brought you two together in the first place, and hopefully she can slow down and appreciate the relationship, not the idea of being married. Tell her that you wouldn't mind discussing it at a later date to see where your priorities lie but right now it's not in the cards.

[d346]

see, I disagree. You're in a commited relationship with her, so there are some things you do owe her.

 

If my boyfriend told me he'd be ready when he's ready, and he doesn't owe me anything (timeframe), I'd be out the door. It's a matter of respect for myself, and respect for my plans for the future.

 

Not to mention people say you may not owe her a time frame, but this push and pull isn't going to change until you at least talk about one. NO ONE is good with open endedness, when they know what they want. Whether it's in relationships, careers, what have it. She already knows she wants to marry you. Trust me, if you give her a vague "I don't know when", yet you're acting married in your living situation, she won't handle it well. I'm just suggesting a time frame so she can see if she can plan accordingly. Otherwise you're going to spend the rest of your relationship (perhaps until you break-up) fighting about this.

[VictorWard]

Thanks again everybody for the advice. I really can't thank you all enough.

 

how long have you two been going out? you said she has been pushing about a year now. i know you love her but she has to be patient. how many people have you gone out with before her???

We have been going out for 2.5 years. As for my dating history, I have only had one girlfriend before her. As for her, she has had a couple of boyfriends, in the past, but nothing serious. I am her first love. So before we met, we were both pretty inexperienced, and I think that is part of the problem.

I thought my first girlfriend would be "the one", but once we broke up I started to realize how very dumb that idea was. I sometimes wonder that if my girlfriend and I do break up, will she think this way about me since I'm her first love.

 

You can continue to butt heads and ultimately break up...is that what you want? (actually, you need to really think about that, because maybe that is what you want...)

Breaking up is not what I want. However, recently with all of this pressure she is putting on the relationship, I can see that it may happen.

 

Yes you need to be sensitive to her needs but NO you don't need to say "I'll be ready in 5 years". How do YOU know if you'll be ready in 5 years?

...

Another note: She should be thanking her lucky stars you haven't hit the road YET. Most guys who get pressured to the point that you have would have dumped her a long time ago. You must really love her to stick around and try to work it out....

This is how I feel about a timeline. I can't predict when I'm going to be ready. Also, I don't want to give a timeline and then not be able to follow it. As for the sticking around, things weren't like this in the first year and a half of our relationship. I do love her, I still love her, and I want to make things work. There's only so much I can take.

[purple_monster]

If my boyfriend told me he'd be ready when he's ready, and he doesn't owe me anything (timeframe), I'd be out the door. It's a matter of respect for myself, and respect for my plans for the future.

 

that pretty much sums up what happened to me. i think that's why this situation is a little sticky for me.

[d346]

yes, I'm just giving the female perspective...from someone who is beginning to think about the future and next phase in life. (granted, I am 27, and was galavanting around Europe at 20, NYC at 22...)

 

But if one is ready to start a "future" at whatever age it may be, waiting in the unknown won't cut it. Perhaps this will help you understand her better, in order to figure out what action you should take.

 

As for her manipulating you, I don't know her...I'm just shedding some light on you regarding the female "nesting psyche"

[Cecelius]

I think all the answers are simple, if not easy.

 

You are not happy living with her overall (the sex has gone downhill).

 

She is too needy (which is not attractive)

 

She is trying to get you to lock your entire future up with her, by crying, whining and being rude.

 

She is inexperienced in love, is 20 and wants desparately to get married (I have theories on what happens to young people getting married too early when they hit their early 30s).

 

The entire relationship is becoming a chore for you.

 

Either talk to her, let her know what your thoughts are and live with what happens, or break up with her (don't be shocked if she ends up engaged in the next year).

 

BUT, don't put up with this carp one more minute.

[VictorWard]

I'm just giving the female perspective...from someone who is beginning to think about the future and next phase in life. (granted, I am 27, and was galavanting around Europe at 20, NYC at 22...)

Damn, I wish I was galavanting around Europe ... but that's another discussion. But I find your posts to be very interesting. Like you said, you are giving the perspective of a female's "nesting psyche". My girlfriend is obviously in this state of mind. It's a little depressing when I think about it. We have two completely different view points on this situation (like my girlfriend and myself), and it seems like we would never be able to see eye to eye on this issue. It makes me think that this is the beginning of the end.

 

She is inexperienced in love, is 20 and wants desparately to get married (I have theories on what happens to young people getting married too early when they hit their early 30s).

I would be interested to hear these theories ... or at least one of them.

[OceanEyes]

Hey again Victor,

 

How are things going with her now? I mean, it's been a couple of days since you reported how she's being/ handling herself. Are you two getting along or at least working your way towards an understanding?

 

I, like d346, spent most of my late teens after high school and my early 20's abroad studying/ working. Then again, I have girlfriends who never had the same state of mind as I did, and basically used to want the same things that your girlfriend does: marriage, family, to settle down (even now that whole concept freaks me out, and I'm almost 25). The interesting thing, is that the girlfriends who wanted to settle down right after high school (and did actually get proposed to, rings, wedding arrangements, etc.) don't actually want to get married anymore (one couple totally broke up last month, and the other couple is still engaged, but she cheats and isn't happy).

 

Let's face it Victor; if your girlfriend doesn't even really know what she wants to do in life yet, where she sees herself professionally/ career wise and hasn't even thought about going back to school yet, how can she possibly think that far ahead regarding marriage (which is probably the most legally binding thing with the most consequences if failure occurs).

[VictorWard]

It's great to hear from you OceanEyes.

How are things going with her now? ... Are you two getting along or at least working your way towards an understanding?

She hasn't brought it up in a couple of days. Things are going much, much better now. We are getting along, and last night she even initiated sex (something she hasn't done in many, many months). Even though she hasn't brought it up, I still think she's thinking about it. I am going to just see how long it is until she brings it up again.

 

I, like d346, spent most of my late teens after high school and my early 20's abroad studying/ working.

Damn ... That sounds fun.

 

The interesting thing, is that the girlfriends who wanted to settle down right after high school (and did actually get proposed to, rings, wedding arrangements, etc.) don't actually want to get married anymore (one couple totally broke up last month, and the other couple is still engaged, but she cheats and isn't happy).

It's stories like this that make think that getting married or engaged when the couple isn't ready will never work. Especially the part about the one couple where the woman cheats.

 

 

Let's face it Victor; if your girlfriend doesn't even really know what she wants to do in life yet, where she sees herself professionally/ career wise and hasn't even thought about going back to school yet, how can she possibly think that far ahead regarding marriage (which is probably the most legally binding thing with the most consequences if failure occurs).

She does know what she wants to do for a career. The problem is that she is trying to revolve it around where I want to go back to school next year. I don't want her to do this. I want her to do whatever is best for her career, and if things don't work out, then they don't work. I don't want her to pass up a great job that can help her career, for us. She's too young to be doing that.

However, I can't really bring up this idea because she's going to think that I want to break up, which is not the case. I only want what's best for both of us.

[Cecelius]

She is inexperienced in love, is 20 and wants desparately to get married (I have theories on what happens to young people getting married too early when they hit their early 30s).

I would be interested to hear these theories ... or at least one of them.

 

It's not too different from Ocean Eyes thoughts about whether she knows what she wants at this point. Gently put, very young people who seek marriage for security and to solve their loneliness have a harsh way of coming out of their shells at age 30 and saying they never had a chance to be young, etc. These boards are full of men at the tail end of busting their a--es to build a stable life only to find their lovely wives getting it on with co-workers or old boy friends or whatever.

[OceanEyes]

The interesting thing, is that the girlfriends who wanted to settle down right after high school (and did actually get proposed to, rings, wedding arrangements, etc.) don't actually want to get married anymore (one couple totally broke up last month, and the other couple is still engaged, but she cheats and isn't happy).

It's stories like this that make think that getting married or engaged when the couple isn't ready will never work. Especially the part about the one couple where the woman cheats.

 

Oops! Sorry, didn't mean to make you paranoid! lol This isn't the norm, it's just something that I've seen going on around me. The girl that I am talking about is just downright unhappy and bored - has been for years basically - and when I ask her why she doesn't just *get out*, she says, "well I love him, and I couldn't handle breaking up, no way". So I guess her logic is that it's better to live in the pit of mediocrity with the fiancee than to actually make a clean break. She's just scared of being alone.

 

I've seen a lot of women cheat, moreso than men actually. Most of the time when the woman starts cheating, it's because she's not connecting to the relationship emotionally anymore. We're very emotionally-driven creatures at times (it's not a conscious decision).

 

I would just wait to see where this one goes. If this girl really loves you, she'll understand your position and wait for you. I really don't see what the big rush is whatsoever.

[VictorWard]

Gently put, very young people who seek marriage for security and to solve their loneliness have a harsh way of coming out of their shells at age 30 and saying they never had a chance to be young, etc.

This is actually one of my greatest fears. Simply put, I haven't done anything interesting in my life. No trips, no parties, no group of friends. If I don't do something soon, then I am afraid that I will be one of those 30 year olds that never had a chance to be young.

I've started to make a list of ideas on what I can do in the next year to avoid falling into this trap.

 

The girl that I am talking about is just downright unhappy and bored - has been for years basically - and when I ask her why she doesn't just *get out*, she says, "well I love him, and I couldn't handle breaking up, no way".

I can kind of relate to the whole loving the person, and not being able to handle a break up idea. If I was in a position that I wanted to break up with my girlfriend, I don't know that I would be able to do that to her.

 

But like I have mentioned before, I am currently in a lease for another 6 months. I owe it to myself to work on this relationship.

But if things don't work out, then I will be back here looking for breaking up advice. Stay tuned.

[tenn22]

Marriage is a delicate thing, as I learned takes time to do well. Sometimes we fail.

[Cecelius]

Gently put, very young people who seek marriage for security and to solve their loneliness have a harsh way of coming out of their shells at age 30 and saying they never had a chance to be young, etc.

This is actually one of my greatest fears. Simply put, I haven't done anything interesting in my life. No trips, no parties, no group of friends. If I don't do something soon, then I am afraid that I will be one of those 30 year olds that never had a chance to be young.

I've started to make a list of ideas on what I can do in the next year to avoid falling into this trap.

 

My comment was more insidious and was directed euphemistically at her, not you, and my expectation is that the situation would end up looking like OceanEyes' friend below.

 

The girl that I am talking about is just downright unhappy and bored - has been for years basically - and when I ask her why she doesn't just *get out*, she says, "well I love him, and I couldn't handle breaking up, no way".

I can kind of relate to the whole loving the person, and not being able to handle a break up idea. If I was in a position that I wanted to break up with my girlfriend, I don't know that I would be able to do that to her.

 

But like I have mentioned before, I am currently in a lease for another 6 months. I owe it to myself to work on this relationship.

But if things don't work out, then I will be back here looking for breaking up advice. Stay tuned.

 

She hasn't done anything shady, so there's no real problem with putting some more time in, but honestly, this is not going to get easier. The more time you wait, the more she will increasingly feel you are wasting her time and she is likely to start supplementing her activities to locate the next guy.

[OceanEyes]

Victor, I think you just need to have some fun - plain and simply!! It just dawned on me after reading every single one of your posts in this thread and the other one, that you are too fun-deprived for a guy your age. I think you need some excitement, some adventure, something to remember when you're old and grey!

 

I think if you allow yourself to be sucked into marriage, and to deny yourself the fun and party-time that you seem to really need right now, you're going to be cheating yourself and your girlfriend in the long run.

 

You seem to be craving some excitement in your life. I know that it's probably going to be tough to fulfill this need while you're living with your girlfriend, but I would still try to blow off steam whenever I needed to. I think every young person deserves to do this before they settle down.

[d346]

Victor,

 

Probably the main reason that you're not ready to settle down is that you haven't had those fun experiences. Go out and seize them! And there's no reason you can't do that in a committed relationship. I think your plan for the next year is good. Tell your girlfriend about it, and maybe she'll understand.

 

Plus, she can take part in some of it. Plan a long weekend in London...OR, you're still not too old to backpack in Europe for a week, and see where the next train takes you! My boyfriend and I have shared some of the best memories on some of our trips. We have had some crazy adventures and met some really interesting people along the way. Let her know that you want to do some of this stuff before you settle down (not that it should stop when you do) and that you guys can do it together.

[VictorWard]

Victor, I think you just need to have some fun - plain and simply!! It just dawned on me after reading every single one of your posts in this thread and the other one, that you are too fun-deprived for a guy your age. I think you need some excitement, some adventure, something to remember when you're old and grey!

I couldn't have said it better myself. I haven't really ever had any fun. I mean, I could count the parties I've been to on one hand.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned this in one of my first threads on this forum, but I don't have any friends other than my girlfriend so having the fun I've missed out on is going to be difficult.

As for meeting new people, I'm also going for knee surgery next year, so things like joining a sports team is out of the question. Talking to people is extremely difficult because I'm shy.

Also, I know it sounds like something stupid, but what exactly do people do for fun?

Going to the movies has become boring for me.

Even going to concerts is getting a little boring for me (and expensive).

As for going out and enjoying a winter, winter activities don't mix well with a person on a waiting list for knee surgery.

 

Probably the main reason that you're not ready to settle down is that you haven't had those fun experiences. Go out and seize them! And there's no reason you can't do that in a committed relationship. I think your plan for the next year is good. Tell your girlfriend about it, and maybe she'll understand.

One of the reasons that I'm going back to school next year (besides not being happy with my current education) is that I want to make friends. I figure university has to be the easiest place to do this.

 

I know that this isn't going to be a quick fix, but that's why I'm taking the time to come up with steps to get on the right track.

I can't thank the people who have replied to my threads enough for their advice. I really appreciate it.

[OceanEyes]

Also, I know it sounds like something stupid, but what exactly do people do for fun?

Going to the movies has become boring for me.

Even going to concerts is getting a little boring for me (and expensive).

As for going out and enjoying a winter, winter activities don't mix well with a person on a waiting list for knee surgery.

 

Doing something "fun" is pretty subjective from person to person. It depends on what you consider to be "fun". Also something else to consider, is whether or not you need fun away from your girlfriend, or something that includes her. She seems a bit needy, so trying to break away and spent time with other people might bring you some added headaches.

 

Things I do for fun/ excitement/ meet new people:

 

- Go clubbing. This might be more difficult if you don't have a handful of buddies to call up and go with.

 

- Volunteer. This is a good way to meet other people. Of course, don't just volunteer if you're not that "type" of person and are going to hate every minute (because you won't mix well with the other volunteers for a start, and they will be annoyed with you if you don't seem helpful). I started volunteering this year and have already met about 12 new people.

 

- Sign up on Friendster . You would be surprised at how many other people are in the same situation as you are, and you might also see some old friends on there. I've met one girlfriend on Friendster.

 

- Try to organize an out-of-work get-together, with your co-workers of the same age. Casually ask someone you talk to on a regular basis if there are ever any extra-curricular outings of staff. This might be harder if you're shy, but try giving it a shot. What do you have to lose?

 

It's never easy meeting new people. I know, I'm in a city that I didn't grow up in, so sometimes meeting new people seems impossible. But, it's not, although it does take a lot of extra effort, and the ability to put yourself out there and try to relax a bit (shake the shyness). It's not that people won't like you if you're shy, but people who are not shy might find it difficult to approach you.[/b]

 

This might sound like a useless thing for you, and I'm not really sure if it's "your thing", but I find that writing/ keeping a journal really helps me to reflect on everything that is going on in my life. You would be surprised at how amazing it can feel to write out all of your frustrations/ emotions. It's something that can be totally yours Victor, your girlfriend doesn't have to know about it at all either. Sometimes I get the impression that you feel like you have nothing of your own right now. Taking up something artistic can be incredibly fulfilling and enlightening, and can belong only to you.

[VictorWard]

This might sound like a useless thing for you, and I'm not really sure if it's "your thing", but I find that writing/ keeping a journal really helps me to reflect on everything that is going on in my life. You would be surprised at how amazing it can feel to write out all of your frustrations/ emotions.

I have actually thought of doing this in the past, but I am way too afraid that somebody will find it. If somebody that I know got a hold of my private thoughts then I would never get over the embarrassment. I really like the idea though.

 

As for the fun part:

Clubbing: Like you said, if I don't have a handful of buddies, it can be difficult. I'm also not sure if clubbing would be my thing. I've never gone, but I have a feeling that it wouldn't be my thing. Not that I don't want to try it, it's definitely one of those things I want to try before I get too old.

I get very nervous in large crowds of people, especially large crowds of people who are dancing. I also have no idea how to dance, and I have no appreciation for dance music. So I'm not sure how good of a time I would have if the oppourtunity ever came up.

 

Volunteering: I've never done it before. I also have no idea of where to begin. Where do you find volunteering oppourtunities?

 

Friendster: I'll look into it.

 

Thank you for the ideas.

[VictorWard]

This is weird... my life has been broadcast on TV.

I was watching That 70's Show last night (not really paying too much attention), and Jackie was getting the marriage bug.

At the end of the show, she and Hyde had a fight that was almost word for word what my girlfriend and I said to each other just before I started this thread.

 

I'm not going to be able to write this word for word, but it went something like this:

Jackie said she wanted to get married soon, and Hyde said not now.

Jackie needed to know when, Hyde said "I don't know".

Jackie said she needed him to say anything but "I don't know", and Hyde said "I don't know".

Then Jackie broke up with him.

 

It was the weirdest feeling watching this because with the exception of the breaking up part, I had the same argument with my girlfriend a little before Christmas.

 

Just thought I would share that.

 

Just in case anybody is wondering, things are going a lot better between us now. She has stopped with the marriage pressure ... at least for now.

I think the true test will be when we get back from a wedding that we're invited to in the spring. This whole ugliness started when she found out that one of my younger cousins was engaged. So my theory is that the more wedding stuff she sees, the more she is going to want it from me.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

[AlleyCat]

I just read through all 10 pages of this post, and I thought I'd put in my two cents because I think I can understand her perspective a little more than most of the others who have posted.

 

My b/f and I have been together for 6.5 years. We've been living together for about 6 months. A couple of years ago, he actually proposed, but we really weren't ready at the time. Now I'm ready but he's not. I really haven't pestered him about it but I've tried to make it known that I'm ready because I've thought at times that part of his problem could be that he's afraid I'll reject him again and wants to make sure I'll say yes.

 

Anyway, I don't really need or want to get married now. I just want to know that we'll get married in the foreseeable future - that I haven't spent the past 6.5 years of my life with a guy who will just wake up one day and decide he doesn't want to be with me anymore. I want to move forward with our relationship and know that we will move forward in our relationship even more. For me, just getting engaged would be enough. I just want to know that he feels as strongly about the relationship as I do - I'd be fine with waiting a couple of years before the wedding.

 

It sounds like you have additional problems with your relationship preventing you from knowing you actually want to marry her, but once you get to that point, I suggest at least thinking about a long engagement. That would express to her that you do want to be with her as much as she wants to be with you, while still giving you time to enjoy more in life before actually being married.

 

Best of luck!!