Fairly sure she has BPD, fed up and leaving, any advice how to get out *safely*?

[nbr]

So,

Many here know my story, here's the post with the summaries.

Through my last 8 months of hell I have grown immensely, and in fact am grateful to her for the impetus to do so. This all started with me doing *anything* I could to save the marriage, and ended with her saying I'm not even a halfway decent man Christmas Eve (even though she tried to take it back, the damage was instantaneous, and unhealable).

I have a gaggle of friends in two support groups and a Dojo that I've made, nearly a bakers dozen LCSWs, Psychs, and Shrinks to refer to. One thing that has been a constant message from them (and from nearly everyone here) is that She was acting wrong and I was being a doormat.

 

So, as I've written down daily activities, found notes from when we were dating (from when we were ~16 to ~19/20), and been more observant, digging into my own past, I've come to a startling conclusion.

 

My wife has Borderline Personality Disorder. She fits nearly every single criteria for a high functioning borderline. In the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells" there are many verbatim quotes of what she's said, many more that mean the very same thing but with different words. She's even finally admitted to me that she knows she's diabetic, and was intentionally not getting treatment and eating high starch/sugar foods so that she would die sooner. So passive aggressive it even extends to her self harm... *mind blowing*.

 

So, I gave her a choice:

Enter treatment *now* and I will stay and remain faithful, and help her through it.

or

I move out, and have not intent to reconcile until she can prove she's healed and has the BPD fully managed.

 

She refused to get treatment. So I'm moving out. I have a 22 page separation document written that she's avoiding signing. If she refuses to sign it, or at least negotiate terms she doesn't like, then I'll be filing it with the court and having her served. If I do this it becomes a "Legal Separation" as defined by my employer and triggers her getting booted off my health care.

 

I would like to keep it well documented, but informal (out of the courts), specifically so I can carry her health care until she can find a job that has health care. I am not willing to stay if she's not willing to get treatment, but I don't want to be an ass either. Thoughts?

 

I need advice on how to manage a BPD when you're trying to get them to do something they are unhappy about.

She's doing the black and white / splitting / tag game non stop now. Of the three times I've nearly fallen off the wagon @AA all three were triggered by her.

 

Heeeeelllllllpppppp!

 

-nbr

[Seraphim]

Unfortunately you can not "make" her do anything. I would recommend just getting divorced and taking at least half custody of your kids. Adults even without mental illness are not going to do something they do not want to do.

 

You are fighting a losing battle.

[rosasnyder811]

Unfortunately you can not "make" her do anything. I would recommend just getting divorced and taking at least half custody of your kids. Adults even without mental illness are not going to do something they do not want to do.

 

You are fighting a losing battle.

 

Although I agree with the intial statement of "You cannot make someone do anything," I don't like the divorce comment. It shouldn't be so easy.

You are her husband and you swore to stick with her through better or worse.

Why does the seperation have to be in the courts? Just leave and show her that you are serious this time. Sometimes it takes a dramatic act to get someone to wake up. If after awhile she still doesn't get it, then maybe divorce is the next step.

Just remember you two have children, and they are going to hurt from this.

She also needs to be given that angle---that if she loves her kids she will do something about this. I think a little manipulation like that is okay if it gets someone the help they need.

[Angel Irulan]

How is it that you did not know any of this? Your dojo could be perceived as you wanting to do battle. Thats how I might see it. And, btw, the diabetes could be the SOLE cause of the personality problems. I get that you're frustrated, but I don't feel that you are in anything but an angry mode and I don't know how to help you. There must be more to the story. Say, when did she change, or was she always like this and did you think marriage would calm her down???

 

Angel

[Angel Irulan]

Okay so I read that you are 90 days into sobriety? Don't trust your judgement yet and don't let "professionals attitudes" be a groundstone for a divorce or anything else. You have a huge mess, and I feel that you are pushing off some of your own emotional issues onto her. I would wait a year before I'd do anything rash.

Were you intoxicated when you married her?

Angel

[mhowe]

First of all, you diagnosing her BPD means nothing. If it hasn't been diagnosed by medical professional, it is heresay and conjecture.

 

Secondly -- you have given her more than the benefit of the doubt through this process. She is stalling in order to have her cake and eat it too.

 

If you live in US -- she can COBRA the health benefits or go on state subsidized. She is no longer your responsibility. Have the papers served, and look out for your kids.

[Kaytie]

First of all, you diagnosing her BPD means nothing. If it hasn't been diagnosed by medical professional, it is heresay and conjecture.

 

Secondly -- you have given her more than the benefit of the doubt through this process. She is stalling in order to have her cake and eat it too.

 

If you live in US -- she can COBRA the health benefits or go on state subsidized. She is no longer your responsibility. Have the papers served, and look out for your kids.

 

Agreed. nbr, you have been MORE than patient and a wonderful man and father during this whole process. It is time to take care of you and your kids and nothing else.

[Seraphim]

nbr,

 

I would resist the urge to "diagnose" her. As we know people who have been severely sexually abused as kids often have a lot of issues. It seems she does not want to work on these. She wants to act out instead. We ( those who have been severely sexually abused) often have periods of acting out unless we deal with our issues. The thing is you do not have to stand by while she has affairs on you and watch her blow herself up. Your loyalty should lay with your kids. They will be harmed in watching all this. If she was willing and working on her issues I would recommend working it out with her. Right now she is more interested in self destruction. You have to protect your kids from that.

[nbr]

I have followed his story from the beginning.

 

Look, I have been reading your posts and can you please make your comments and advice WITHOUT criticizing people constantly. You really have to know everything that happens in the story before you start criticizing other people for their advice.

It's ok, 6 months of therapy has helped build a thick skin (but I greatly appreciate the show of support ((hugs)))

 

@Angel:

 

We were together 20 years, I started into the RS with absolute crap self esteem. Things have been like this as far back as when we were 18 (2 years in). How could I not know this? It's pretty amazing isn't it? Fact is, the BPD tends to take the non-BPD and isolate them, which she did, but because of my low self worth I took it, once I was isolated I had no baseline to compare to, no reference of what normal is, so I came to accept that I was to blame for everything as normal. Twice before this last time she had tried to kick me out, twice I asked for counseling as a couple, twice she refused, but relented on me moving out. This last time was different, I (unknown to me) had already been replaced for her emotional needs...

Her abject refusal to get help, and that she's been as cruel to me as she has, means I have to leave, I have to preserve myself, so my kids have at least one healthy parent.

 

I'll give you a typical episode:

* I get home from work, she gives me a hug, I start making dinner.

* She decides something needs to be taken care of *right now*, and sends me to go do it (taking recycle and trash out for this example).

* Arms are going to be full, so I leave the back door open (it's cold out). While going back and forth one of the kids is screaming, she jumps on me to go handle it, I do so, forgetting to close the door.

* Half hour later, kids are calmed down and we're working on homework all piled in my daughters bed with lap boards. Wife notices door is open. Comes into my daughters room and *screaming* that I'm a "worthless, incompetent, idiot, who doesn't care about anything but himself because you can't be bothered to close the friggen door!."

* 45 minutes later, doesn't understand why I'm not in a mood to hug on her, not talking to her, kids won't come out of their rooms to see her, so she gets into a self pity bout about no-one in the house loving her and that she's all by herself.

 

Now, live variations of that for 3 times a week for 18 or so years. Like putting a frog in a pot of cold water, then turning up the heat, each episode imperceptibly worse that the previous one...

 

@rosasnyder:

She asked for the separation, I insisted on MFT prior to being willing to move out. I gave in to *every single demand* and kowtowed to her every whim for 6 months; four months in she halted the counselling because we were starting to work on her issues, suddenly the therapist wasn't any good and was a quack. On Christmas eve she said how she was screwed when I moved out because every woman would keep even a halfway decent man, so there's no good men out there (with the implication that I'm not a halfway decent man); then proceded to get mad that I was silently weeping as I wrapped the kids santa presents for what was almost certainly my last Christmas as a family. This past Sunday she was complaining to me that she got all dressed up to impress one of the dads at a school function, and he failed to notice her. The previous two weeks ago she went to Disneyland, with this dad and his kids, having shipped me home on a plane so I wouldn't be there and saw nothing wrong with it.

 

Her behavior has finally exceeded my ability to cope. I was on the verge of suicide mid December, one member here was the one most responsible for keeping me alive, that and my kids was it. I had the gun in one hand, the bottle of vodka in the other. I managed to put them both down. If I stay in this relationship I *will* die, either through drink or suicide, likely both. My constitution is only so strong.

 

-nbr

[Seraphim]

Get out now. You do not need to destroy yourself for her or destroy your kids. You are right. One can only take so much.

[nbr]

nbr,

 

I would resist the urge to "diagnose" her. As we know people who have been severely sexually abused as kids often have a lot of issues. It seems she does not want to work on these. She wants to act out instead. We ( those who have been severely sexually abused) often have periods of acting out unless we deal with our issues. The thing is you do not have to stand by while she has affairs on you and watch her blow herself up. Your loyalty should lay with your kids. They will be harmed in watching all this. If she was willing and working on her issues I would recommend working it out with her. Right now she is more interested in self destruction. You have to protect your kids from that.

If this goes to court she'll likely be forced to see a psych.

The diagnosis is not mine to make, but it certainly matches all the criteria. My psychologist says it almost certainly is, and that I have many of the scars and issues of someone who's lived with a BPD for a LTR.

 

Fact of the matter is that I do believe she has this, it matches, her past is almost textbook, and I need to get out safely. How do I do that?

That's my big challenge....

-nbr

[rosasnyder811]

You just do it. You take your kids and you go. Or call an ambulance and have them take her to the hospital if she gets violent one night.

[mhowe]

Stay calm and carry on.

 

My new mantra -- you are welcome to share!

 

Keep going -- have her served. I am not saying she isn't a royal PIA, but labels mean nothing. Document behavior, protect the kids.

[Seraphim]

I would just pick up all your stuff and go when she is out. You will have to fight her in court for the kids though. I encourage you to do that, most vigorously. If she is falling apart this badly she can not be a good parent. Document everything.

[mhowe]

Hold up -- is it your house -- your house together?

I know you need to have a place to have the kids....and would that not be easier from their home?

 

Talk to your lawyer -- do not "move out" of the marital home w/ the kids w/out a custody agreement. Called parental kidnapping.

 

Do it by the book.

[Seraphim]

Hold up -- is it your house -- your house together?

I know you need to have a place to have the kids....and would that not be easier from their home?

 

Talk to your lawyer -- do not "move out" of the marital home w/ the kids w/out a custody agreement. Called parental kidnapping.

 

Do it by the book.

 

Yes, you will have to do it by the book. Get a lawyer. ASAP.

[rosasnyder811]

I understand she wanted the divorce, but if by chance your diagnosis is correct, she is doing it from the illness, not necessarily from what she wants. The person that said the diabetes could be causing this is also correct. She needs to get some help, but you need to protect your kids as well.

 

However, think seriously about divorce. Remember marriage is a sacred union in which both of you made a promise. Perhaps you could even use that promise as a basis to get some help.

[mhowe]

I understand she wanted the divorce, but if by chance your diagnosis is correct, she is doing it from the illness, not necessarily from what she wants. The person that said the diabetes could be causing this is also correct. She needs to get some help, but you need to protect your kids as well.

 

However, think seriously about divorce. Remember marriage is a sacred union in which both of you made a promise. Perhaps you could even use that promise as a basis to get some help.

 

He has posted his process for the last 6 months -- after years of abuse. Including counseling.

He and his kids have a right to a life not filled w/ her selfishness....and excuses.

 

OP -talk to lawyer. Do this legally. Do not move out yourself or with the kids.

 

Keep it up -- we are here for you.

[nbr]

@mhowe & Victoria:

yes, doing it as by the book as I can. The separation doc is as fair as I can possibly make it and she's said she's ok w/ joint custody (50/50).

Problem is getting her to sign the document.

 

The house is hers, the $400K trust fund that goes with it is hers. I will even pay CS and alimony at as high a rate as I can afford.

Trying to not get a lawyer, because then I'll be completely buried and broke, but if I have no other choice... Paid a lawyer to read over the doc I have and it looks ok.

 

@rosasnyder:

I understand what you're saying, and to be honest I simply don't care to try anymore. I am wanting to wash my hands of her issues once and for all. I'm burnt out and done. I actually feel guilty about not feeling guilty that I am leaving so completely.

If she falls I will offer a hand up, but I will not pick her up.

-nbr

[Seraphim]

You can only do so much my friend. My mother endured years of my father's mental illness and abuse and it almost literally killed her. She is almost completely disabled now from the stress and abuse even though he has been out of her life for 22 years. I am sorry my mother stayed with him so long just to try and make it work and to be loyal. Her and my brother and I got tortured for that decision. It was the worst of her life and she knows it. I can tell my brother and I suffered horribly having a mentally ill father.

[mhowe]

I am not sure where mental illness vs. completely selfish and self centered behavior draw the line w/ nbr's wife.

 

Sorry about the financial straits you will be in OP -- then have her served thru the courts. It does not benefit her to sign them. and she cares not a whit about you or the kids. So -- have her served...and then let a judge decide. Serving her same as signing -- she simply using it as control tool.

[Seraphim]

Either way he can not work with this woman. Both parties have to want to work at it and she doesn't. So, yeah, I agree,mhowe.

[nbr]

I guess my other part of the question is I know when I move my toothbruch (so to speak) it will be a massive trigger. Anyone have coping strategies? Evasion/Diversion techniques they have used?

I was hoping to actually hook her op with this OM of hers, to simply keep her occupied, but she's already doing the splitting and black and white thing with him. Cool thing is I get the blame side when he does something wrong. She didn't understand my laughter when she complained that he didn't notice her the other night.

I think he's gotten a taste of her demeanor and is pulling back. Bummer for me @ this point...

-nbr

[mhowe]

NBR -- check w/ lawyer, not us. If you leave the house -- it is huge. Doesn't matter if it is in her name.

 

I get that you might have to do that -- but the kids, the school system -- all need to be addressed. As well as her instability.

 

Until you have custody agreement, don't take kids. If you leave w/ out kids, you don't need to tell her --- but you will need to tell the courts.

 

And diversion -- only see her when transferring kids. Change "hang outs", grocery store, etc.

[calichick007]

Agreed. nbr, you have been MORE than patient and a wonderful man and father during this whole process. It is time to take care of you and your kids and nothing else.

 

Add me to this list. Anyone who has followed your posts would have to agree. I hope things start to turn around for you, I really do.