She loves me, she loves me not.

[wanger]

My fiance and I have recently split up after being together for 5 years, engaged for 4 and having problems for 1 or 2 years. We have lived together for virtually all this time. In the beginning it was perfect (most of my friends think that they had never seen a better stronger couple), but then the rot set in, and total misscommunication and second guessing each others thoughts caused big problems between us. Although we have never actually had an argument, she is very non-confrontational so withdraws, while I get paranoid and tend to stick my head in the sand. We both knew there were things wrong, and did have a few chats, but generally not about the right things. She now says that although she still loves me, that too much damage has been done, and she no longer feels any passion.

 

Anyway, at the beginning of September we decided to split up, 2 days later she decided it was just a break to sort her head out, but with no guarantees. She moved out of our home to stay with friends, as hers live nearby, whilst I know very few people, other than to say hello to in the street. The day we broke up, I wrote her the usual pleading letter, she wrote back about a week later asking if we could go out and catch a film (she had previously said that she wants to carry on dating to see if we can rekindle things). I replied and said lets make a day of it. That was going to be on a saturday. She turned up at our house Friday night and stayed until the following Friday morning. Things were great, we spent time talking about how we were going to decorate our house, how we would set up a joint bank account, we held hands all day, and cuddled all night (no sex, but did sleep together). Only bad days were tuesday when I had to work away overnight (I called home twice but she did'nt pick up the phone or call back) and wednesday night when I got back to find her being very withdrawn and almost felt as if i wasn't there. Then thursday, things were good again. She only stayed the extra time because she has a cold, and the friends that she is staying with have a newborn baby.

 

Incidentally, when things were great between us, we rarley spent time with anyone apart from each other. In general, I rarley spent any time with her friends as I found most of them to be cliquey and some of them very rude. I also did not like the way that they only contacted her when they wanted something. Of course, now she is staying with the very same people that I did not get on with.

 

She has admitted that she knows that I can make her happy again, but does not know if she wants me to be the one. It subsequently turns out that she has been crying on her friends shoulder for over a year, seeing a councillor (I knew about this, but she told me it was to help sort other issues out). Certainley the extended weekend we had together made me believe that we could work things out, and she has reaffirmed that after we have had more of a break she wants to start dating me again.

 

My problem is that I feel that it is me dangling on a string at the moment. She got on well with all my friends, one of which came to see me this weekend. She knew he was coming and suggested meeting up for a beer. I responded that I would call her on Saturday, only to get a reply that I should'nt phone on saturday as she had a big party to go to, but I could text her, about meeting up on sunday. - I texted her and told her that I was unavailbale all weekend. (the last party she went to after the split - she admitted that she just sat in the corner with nothing to say).

 

It really seems that she spends a few days without contact with me, and she has a 1000 reasons why we are wrong for each other. Within a few hours of us being together she is curled up on the sofa with me. This cycle is driving me up the wall.

 

Do I do the NC thing, do I write to her one last time, telling her how much she means to me but I have to move on, and can't wait forever on the offchance that she will decide to come back, or do I tell her that I have met someone else (I have, but have no intention of it going anywhere more than a sociable drink after work until I am healed). A female friend said I should just do the NC thing as any contact even telling her that I have met someone else and want to sell the house, is just saying to her "Hi, I'm still here thinking about you".

 

I am just so confused, she is fickle at the best of times, but when we are together it is like it was right at the beginning of our relationship, when we are apart I feel like she is not giving me a second thought. She does seem to respond well to letters, and said the one that I sent her was lovley, but of course, telling her how we should be together, is not going to rekindle her passion. Incidntally, we have both spent a lot of time talking about our problems since the split, and it seems that a cloud has lifted, and we can see all the problems and causes with an amazing amount of clarity, but like she says she does not know if it is too late.

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, as I don't know if I am being strung along as a fallback in case her new independent life does'nt work, or if she is genuinley confused.

 

Thanks in advance.

[sonjam]

Hi

 

YOu guys have a lot of issues, but from your letter, the following: make peace with her friends, you are very judgemental for somoene who does not really have friends of their own. I get the idea you are a bit overwelming, a good idea is to back off a bit, maybe NC for awhile, she is struggeling to find her feet, after a long relationship, and will want to fall back on you occasionally, when she is feeling insecure, because you still mean security to her. Once she is on her feet, and feeling confident, she will not need you anymore?

 

Maybe this is not what you wanted to hear, but this is what I read in your post. This is so hard, but I suggest you carry on with your life. Whatever you decide to tell her, make sure from your side, it is not a clever ploy to try and win her back, it will only work for a short while, and not fix the reason you broke up in the first place!

[wanger]

Thanks Sonjam

 

I was not being judgmental of her friends, just disapointed that they were not welcoming to me (by her own admission, many of them are ex partners that still burn a candle for her). I do have many friends, but none that live nearby (we moved away form my home area 3 years ago, and are now near her mates only), and all of which have been very welcoming to her. Whilst her friends have at best ignored me, at worst let me know they have no time or interest in anyone outside their immediate circle.

 

You were right, I did not want to hear that about her finding her feet, and I probably have been overbearing. But the point that I did not make clear in my first mail, was that we both totally know where we went wrong, and are both very sad that this has happened. I just feel so frustrated that we are going to throw it all away, even though we both know where we went wrong and more importantly how to put it right. The weekend that we spent together certainly proved how great it can be. Of course their were tensions, with all those emotions flying around, but there was a much deeper understanding and tolerance between us than there has been in years.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[_Ramirez_]

Well, I'm sorry to hear about your sufferings. If that can be a comfort you should know that your situation is lived by many people around this boards and that its nothing new.

 

First you need to stop being there for her every time she needs someone to make her feel safe emotionally. You're not helping your situation if you do this all the time. She thinks right now that you won't go anywhere far from her and she keeps coming back for more anytime she feels the need to have a boyfriend. She actually seems rather confused about the situation you two are in but nothing force her to think back on it and act. Right now you are doing nothing that will make her take the decision you want her to take, on the contrary you write her letters, give her affection, take care of her and her feelings when she's around and she knows you're there for her if she need you. She seems to feel comfortable with the situation right now, having a free ticket to go out and play but having you waiting for her.

 

Of course she needs to think about your couple and if she really wants to come back with you, but she won't realize what she can lose if she thinks she can come back anytime she want. Make her know that she's not the only one that will take the decision to go on with giving a second chance to this relationship and that you too will think about the fact that she might not be the one you want to spend the rest of your life with.

 

Make a statement to her. Tell her how much she means to you, how much you love her and how much you suffer from this. Tell her how you planned your future for both of you. Write it in a letter if you think she might respond better to it so you can phrase it the way you want and so she can reread it all she want. You need to make clear that you can't live on like this forever and that you want at least a week or two without any contact from her part (I would make it two) so you can sort things out.

 

I really don't advise saying you're seeing someone else as it might really make you lose her, but if you tell her you're thinking about putting an end to this situation with her back in your life or not she might become really scared of loosing you or at least this should make her think really hard. This might sound like manipulation and maybe it is, but you seem to be tired of the situation and until now she's the one that is manipulating you. Make a power shift and give her a little of her own treatment.

 

Do this for yourself, you need to be sure about wanting to fight to have her back, you need to be sure that you want to endure anything for a chance to get her back. Take this time to really see what you want. I'm not saying dump her on the spot, far from it, I'm saying stop chasing after her, you're damaging yourself and your future relationship with her by building resentment toward her. This taking all your energies and you will lose patience eventually if its not already done. The situation you're in will either end up badly or not at all if you don't take the means to put a stop to it. Prepare yourself to cut all the strings attached to her and to move out, just in case, it will hurt way less if it really happen in the end.

 

I hope it turn out the way you want.

[OldGuy]

Well, a different perspective, you guys have 5 years invested in this, maybe its worth some work.

 

You said she was going to counseling, did you ever go with her? Relationship counseling works much better if both people go. And it can work, I know. Are you willing to listen to her and maybe try to change the things that bother her the most? Is she maybe willing to do the same for you?

 

If you think so talk to her about it. You guys are not kids, you should both know if you want this relationship or not. If you both still do, be a man and put some effort into it, go talk to the counselor. If its not BOTH of that want it to work, end it and get on with your life.

[wanger]

Ramirez

 

You are absolutley right. I do desperatley want her back, but only if she wants to come back, coz I know that otherwise it would all fall apart again.

 

This other lady, is nothing more than a nice person who has shown an interest. It has helped me to separate the feelings of lonliness from the feelings of regret and lost love. Even so, I desperatley want her back. I am not the type to have a relationship with this new lady to either spite my ex, or to rebound. We (me and the ex) have both admitted since the split, that neither of has have ever felt such a close connection with anyone as we felt with each other. It just seems such a shame to waste this.

 

We co-own the house, but she has moved out to stay with friends, whilst I am staying at the house. She still comes back to pick up clothes and things but I try to make sure that I am not there. This, of course makes extended periods of NC very difficult as I have to let her know when I am away. I'm away in a couple of nights and she is coming over then, so I'll leave her a letter then. I keep telling myself to be stronger and less of a doormat, but every time I think of her, I think of something else to say that will bring her back. Of course - it doesn't. She has a place to stay until mid november, at which point she will either have to find her own flat or come back.

 

This is the second time in my life that i have been through emotional hurt this powerfull, the first time, actually hurt a lot more as I could not understand. Right now it is pure frustration, because I can remember how close we were (even recently), we both know where we went wrong, we both still love each other, we still have tonnes in common, we still have a major empathy for each other, we even know how to put things right between us. So why can't we give it a go - GRRRRRRR. We have both hurt each other a lot over the past year, mostly arising from poor communication, lack of trust, pretending indifference, and generally taking each other for granted.

 

To be honest I know I can change the things in me that caused a problem, but I'm not sure if she can or would change the things about herself. Its not major changes, just learning to communicate rather than withdrawing or second guessing what the other is thinking. I'm thinking the best approach may be to write her a short but sweet letter, as you suggested, reaffirming my feelings for her, but also hinting that I am moving on as well, leave it then for a few weeks, and then, if she is still into it, dating her for a month or so, (neutral territory, away from the house) and hopefully by then I will have a better idea of where it is all going. I can be very pragmatic, and separate my head feelings from my heart feelings, the problem is actually ignoring the heart feelings.

 

Thanks for your replies, keep em coming. You would not believe (well you probably would) how isolated you can feel. I do talk to my friends but am aware of going into one too much, particularly as some of them are not having too rosy a time of it themselves at the moment. All my friends live in excess of 150 miles away, so it is really helpfull to have these forums to get things off my chest, and to get advice from people who have beenthrough this before. Thank you all.

[wanger]

Old Guy

 

Most of the problems have been down to poor communication. She is very much the perfectionist and has never lived with anyone before, and does have a slightly idealistic view that if 2 people are right for each other they don't have to work at it. On the other hand I have had a very intense long term relationship that ended disasterously in the past, this I have now recognised has left me with a fair bit of emotional baggage that I have not really recognised until now.

 

As mentioned earlier we have both had numerous problems outside the relationship - work stresses, redundancy(s), family bereavment, ill health, one of us virged on cannabis dependency, amongst other things. She really punishes herself for wasting her time at University, and this is the reason that she told me that she was going to see a councillor, she did offer me the chance of attending, but said it was more to do with my own insecurities and issues, rather than any problems between us (at that time, I thought that we were going through a bit of a bad patch, not that we had any serious issues - how wrong was I). Even when she was seeing the councillor I was totally supportive, and always asking how it was going. She told me very little. She now tells me that she asked me because she felt that we needed relationship councilling, and that our problems were virtually all she talked about.

 

The weekend+ that we spent together proved to us both how happy we can make each other, even she admitted that, but she says the passion has gone, so she does not know if she wants me to be the one to make her happy again. How do I get that passion back without seeing her, however, how do I heal if I carry on seeing her. I'm 34 years old and should have some of these answers by now, but just feel like a lovesick schoolboy. You are absolutley right, I should be a man about it, but do not want to risk throwing away five years just so that I heal up a bit quicker.

[OldGuy]

I have screwed up a lot of things in life by not facing them head on. So, my advice is a lot of "do as I say not as I do" sort of stuff. But having learned to talk to my wife and having had seven years since then of no disagreement lasting longer than a few minutes, I am a big fan of facing the issue at hand and talking about it.

 

So, my advice, which is free and worth that, is to call her and tell her you want to talk. Tell her how you feel, tell her you don't want to throw it all away. Tell her what you are willing to do. But, that you need to know whats going to happen. Then listen to what she says and see how it goes. Just be ready to back up your words either way. If she is willing to work with you, work with her. If she is not willing to commit to that, get out, hurt like hell as long as you need to, and get over it.