I need your advice/opinion please!

[Honey1]

Good morning ENA and thanks for reading this for me. Let me make this as brief as possile with a glimpse into the past so you can know how I got where I am.

I have been with bf for 2 years.

Great relationship almost perfect until the FaceBook fling that started in January 2010. I had a gut feeling, I snooped, and I found.

He had been flirting with an ex for almost a month. Well seemed like more than flirting I remember a specific email. "I really hope I can hear from you today, you are my peace of mind. I have a Dr's appt @3 so call me" he even offered to buy her a cell phone just for the two of them because her cp got cut off!

Get this, she too had a bf so their thing worked out perfect. I don't believe, based on evidence, that they had any physical contact but the emotional degree of it was enough to crush me and so I left him. He had given her his work number and email address to reach him.

Got back with him after 3weeks but at the end of March after browsing her MySpace page I recognized a name that I had seen on his computer history. Find out that they're still communicating!

I leave him again, this time for much longer and with NC!

So fast forward to May, he changes his phone number wants to try again, promises me the world and here we are. I can say his behavior has really changed. He no longer takes his cell with him everywhere. If I asks to see his phone records he'll show me. Yada yada.

Here's the problem, since all my discoveries were made by snooping, I can't stop. I'm wondering will I ever be able to trust him. Should I come clean,seek counseling? What do you advise? I keep thinking they're still communicating through work email, which I'll never find out about. I have convinced myself to get a keylogger for his laptop at home just to prove to myself he is not! Am I doing too much?](*,)

[luv2bfit]

He broke your trust bigtime... I don't think you'll ever trust him fully... If he did it once and you caught it and it obviously ruined the trust/you broke up, etc. And then he does it AGAIN??????!!!!

I'm in a similar situation, my bf also did not tell me about communication with an ex, I found out on my own. He promises it won't happen again, so far hasn't... But if it does, I would end the relationship for good. It's not fair to YOU to have to live in a constant state of paranoia and lack of trust... Trust is earned, not given. He ruined that.

[De Lorean]

Yes you are doing way too much. If the degree of distrust between you two is that great, it's just not going to work. You'll always feel paranoid, and he'll always feel like you're watching him, equalling one unhealthy relationship.

[luv2bfit]

Makes me wonder, has anyone been through/heard of anyone that has been in this kind of situation where over time the trust was able to be re-established? I suppose if two people REALLY want to make it work, the person that commited the wrong doing needs to be EXTRA open, extra honest, show over time and allow the person full access to cell phone, email, etc. for some time in order to show they can be trusted and by snooping they won't find anything?

It's a difficult situation, happens quite frequently actually... But sometimes two people genuinely want it to work... The guity party wants the partner to trust them, and the snooper wants to fully trust again and stop snooping.

So how can this ever re-build? Is it possible?

[Honey1]

De Lorean-thanks for your opinion and your honesty and to a degree I agree with you. He's knows the severity of his actions and knows that it will take a lot more than what he did the first time to gain my trust but we are working on it.

luv2bfit-Thanks for your opinion, it's good to hear form someone with experience in the situation. I hope your relationship strengthens and never is tested on the level again.

As far as my realtionship, we have waaaay more good things than bad and nobody is perfect. With that being said I am making no excuses for him, he is wrong BUT when I got back with him I knew it wouldn't be easy. Unless I have a reason I'm gonna ride this out. I have this belief that if I snoop and I never find anything, then I will re-establish my trust in him. Expecting him to just come out and say hey, I'm messing around again, is something I never expect him to do because he never has so snooping is my way of finding things out.

He used to take his cp into the bathroom with him-no longer does this

He used to turn his cp on vibrate-no longer does this

He used to get upset if I question him-no longer does this

I try to trust him,I want to trust him, just wondering if I ever will.

Please keep the comments coming. Every opinion is appreciated

[luv2bfit]

Honey, I agree and that's about the only way you'll ever know if you can trust him fully in some time... I'm the same, I check his cell phone the odd time and I just keep my eyes open and don't ignore things/clues. If it makes me feel better to look at something to "reassure" myself and I find nothing, it feels good. Over time repeated findings of "nothing" would help me trust him and slowly let the snooping becoming less and less until I feel ok not to snoop anymore. I hope that is possible and I hope that is what happens for you and your relationship as well. If he has allowed you access to cell phone, email, etc. then one would hope that he realizes he made a mistake and is trying to make an effort to allow you to build that trust in him again.

It sucks, we shouldn't *have* to do that, but unfortunitely that is the only option besides ending the relationship completely.

[Unreasonable]

Makes me wonder, has anyone been through/heard of anyone that has been in this kind of situation where over time the trust was able to be re-established? I suppose if two people REALLY want to make it work, the person that commited the wrong doing needs to be EXTRA open, extra honest, show over time and allow the person full access to cell phone, email, etc. for some time in order to show they can be trusted and by snooping they won't find anything?

It's a difficult situation, happens quite frequently actually... But sometimes two people genuinely want it to work... The guity party wants the partner to trust them, and the snooper wants to fully trust again and stop snooping.

So how can this ever re-build? Is it possible?

Yes... I have been in a situation where trust was re-established after this kind of thing. For many many years. Actually something much worse than this and more chronic. It takes TIME, not spying, for trust to be re-established. People aren't perfect though, so don't ignore obvious clues. If he reconnects with her, he will mess up eventually and you will find out.

 

To the OP: I personally believe he wants this to work out, and that if this "thing" between them that I'm not even sure was technically cheating (did you ever find anything overtly sexual about their communication?) happens again, I'm pretty sure you can find that out without having to resort to a keylogger. He will get sloppy and make a mistake. Checking your own phone records btw is NOT something I would consider snooping.

 

Keyloggers, imo, should only be used if you have circumstantial evidence by other means that something is going on but you do not have undeniable proof that they could weasel their way out of if presented to them. So far, you have no evidence that anything is going on, right? To violate his privacy indefinitely just to keep your peace of mind (and it really won't help, since you'll always be waiting for it) is not right.

 

Maybe right now he isn't talking to her, but what about a year from now? Are you really going to try to track him 24/7 for the rest of his life because of something that might happen? You will just be replacing one burden with another.

 

What do you think he would do if he found out you were using a keylogger and was innocent? This could wreck his trust in you, you know.

[Lunaetick]

That's really hard because he lied to you not once, but twice about his communication with her. No wonder you're feeling paranoid. I have to wonder if the reason that he stopped communicating with her is because things didn't work out with her, rather than him really wanting to make it work with you? I'm sorry, I don't know the entirety of your situation, just food for thought.

 

If you want to make this work, I think time is the only way to feel better. He's got to be transparent to you in all that he does and maybe, after he's been consistent over a long period of time, you'll start to feel better. I wouldn't give him another chance though if you find anything like this again.

[Honey1]

Ahstaroth-Thank you for your opinion. No, as I stated they had no physical contact. It was all emotional and verbal. There was nothing on there that said good seeing you or anything like that. It was all email and phone calls. I agree time is what we need and I truly thing he is being faithfull I just keep having a feeling that I'm confusing. I', torn with whether or not it's my gut instinct again or just plain insecurity! Also, no I have no intention of "trying to track" him the rest of his life lol

Lunaetick-Your thoughts have crossed my mind. Why did he stop communicating? As I stated she has a bf, did she get caught and have to cut him loose and now it looks like he's doing the right thing? If her and her bf break up will she come for mine and if she does, will he want her? According to the FaceBook letter and I quote "Give me the chance to treat you how you deserve to be treated" I'm like what, what was he gonna do with me?

A little more for the story, she was never really his gf! They had an emotional thing goin while she was still with the guy that she is with now.

If this is to happen again, I don't plan on taking him back....then again I didn't plan to take him back the first time ENA but here I am](*,)

[Unreasonable]

Ahstaroth-Thank you for your opinion. No, as I stated they had no physical contact. It was all emotional and verbal. There was nothing on there that said good seeing you or anything like that. It was all email and phone calls. I agree time is what we need and I truly thing he is being faithfull I just keep having a feeling that I'm confusing. I', torn with whether or not it's my gut instinct again or just plain insecurity! Also, no I have no intention of "trying to track" him the rest of his life lol

Emotional and verbal what? "I'm having a crummy day?" "I like pie?" NOTHING sexual was said? "That shirt makes your t_ts look great?" Anything like that? What got you all worked up about this exactly? What was being said that is so damning that it needs to be keylogged? What was being said that was so bad you felt you needed to leave him? In short, what's the big frikken deal?

 

So far, yep, I'm seeing nothing but plain insecurity. Bigtime. This is not a true new beginning between the two of you. Why bother?

[Lunaetick]

Emotional and verbal what? "I'm having a crummy day?" "I like pie?" NOTHING sexual was said? "That shirt makes your t_ts look great?" Anything like that? What got you all worked up about this exactly? What was being said that is so damning that it needs to be keylogged? What was being said that was so bad you felt you needed to leave him? In short, what's the big frikken deal?

 

So far, yep, I'm seeing nothing but plain insecurity. Bigtime. This is not a true new beginning between the two of you. Why bother?

 

I'm not so sure it's just plain insecurity. From what the OP said above about him telling his ex about giving him a chance to treat her the right way, that sounds sketchy to me, almost like he's trying to get her to leave her boyfriend for him. That goes beyond just friendly chit chat.

 

OP, I can tell you from personal experience that my boyfriend had a female friend who took a lot of the things that he said the wrong way. To make a long story short I don't think anything that would be considered cheating happened, but there were some things there that I'm not entirely comfortable with. It's hard at first, but if you can trust him you will know it in your gut. The trust won't come back right away, and right now you're still reeling from this. If you guys both want to make it work, and you're both in it equally as much, it can work out if that's what you want.

[luv2bfit]

Did you two discuss the possibility of allowing them to speak in email/text/fb whatever, but to on occasion show you the context of their communications? You can give someone trust in any circumstance if they prove it is innocent conversation. For example, I don't care if my bf talks to every single ex he's ever had on a daily basis... All I would ask is

 

1) That I know they communicate, period.

2) Just show me a text or check your email beside me with no fear of me seeing anything innapropriate

 

He doesn't have to show you every single day, but the odd time if you're beside him, why can't he just open up their chat and carry on as usual?

 

That to me is the issue right there.. I'd never care if someone was open and set the foundation that there is nothing to be suspicious about!

 

My bf has an ex from 10 years ago, they dated for 3 years. They talk on a weekly basis and he has showed me the odd time her message asking how I'm doing and maybe she'll get to meet me one day, etc.

 

Would your boyfriend be willing to communicate with her, but openly so that you can see how they talk/type? If it really is innocent I don't see why anyone would be umcomfortable with that?

[Honey1]

Ahstaroth-Let me say this as calmy as I can because you are treading a thin line between giving heartfelt advice and being very judgemental!

The big deal is my bf was sending personal emails to a woman that he used to be involved with.

He was giving her his work number and work email so she can contact him without me knowing.

He was offering to buy her a cell so she can talk to him without being tracked by her bf.

He said things like "let me treat you how you deserve to be treated" "you are my peace of mind" "I really need to hear from you please call me" he also spoke Hawian to her (he is part Hawiian) I thought he only did that for me, it was our thing.

QUOTE In short, what's the big frikken deal?

 

I guess I did ask for opinions huh so keep em coming just be mindful of your reason for being on this website and you wouldn't want anyone being rude to you.....

Thanks

[Honey1]

Did you two discuss the possibility of allowing them to speak in email/text/fb whatever, but to on occasion show you the context of their communications? You can give someone trust in any circumstance if they prove it is innocent conversation. For example, I don't care if my bf talks to every single ex he's ever had on a daily basis... All I would ask is

 

I was A ok with them communicating when we met, why wouldn't I be? I knew she still had his number and being from where i'm from I would sometimes see her and speak. No problems whatsoever. In the back of my mind I always wondered if their book was closed and he assured me it was so I trusted him. When I found those messages I was beyond shocked! I felt so stupid to believe that what they had was innocent. Now, to prevent me from that type of shock I try to stay two steps ahead.

[Unreasonable]

From what the OP said above about him telling his ex about giving him a chance to treat her the right way, that sounds sketchy to me, almost like he's trying to get her to leave her boyfriend for him. That goes beyond just friendly chit chat.

Without the full context of what was said, I can't make a judgement one way or the other. It IS possible for things to be taken the wrong way, ESPECIALLY in text communication, and ESPECIALLY in one-way communication which is all that a keylogger would provide. There are no verbal or physical cues to base judgement off. I could say a sentence with 5 different inflections and have it mean 5 different things.

 

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is, she took him back. She should NOT have taken him back if she is not willing to trust him. Keylogging shows a fundamental lack of trust and that is not something to base a relationship from. Especially if he constantly feels like there's eyes staring over his shoulder.

 

Edit: I read your message. I'm not trying to judge you, I'm trying to give you advice and base it off all the information I can get without making assumptions. I have gone this route before. I have gone through much worse.

[luv2bfit]

The "let me treat you how you deserve to be treated" is the big one that raises a red flag to me.. Personally if I saw my bf saying that to an ex, I'd be gone.

[Lunaetick]

The "let me treat you how you deserve to be treated" is the big one that raises a red flag to me.. Personally if I saw my bf saying that to an ex, I'd be gone.

 

I agree. That, along with the secrecy, would certainly make me suspicious.

 

Also, I agree completely with you Ahstaroth that it's easy to take things out of context, I guess I'm just having trouble seeing what else the above comment could mean (unless he's treating her to a hamburger or something ). But you're right, part of the trouble with snooping is that you never really know what the intentions are behind comments like that.

[Honey1]

I agree. That, along with the secrecy, would certainly make me suspicious.

 

Also, I agree completely with you Ahstaroth that it's easy to take things out of context, I guess I'm just having trouble seeing what else the above comment could mean (unless he's treating her to a hamburger or something ). But you're right, part of the trouble with snooping is that you never really know what the intentions are behind comments like that.

 

I find this too funny! If only he were talking about a burger. Maybe this will help you guys understand it a bit more.

She has a bf who has cheated on her with more than a few people. He told me when he met her she was being treated badly and she told him she was gonna leave him. Well a month or so later and she still hadn't left him that's when my bf stopped dealing with her on that level but they remained in communication. This was back in 07' before he and I met. So when he said that, what he meant was let him treat her right. Which is why I was wondering where was I gonna be when he's treating her right.

When I approched him with my evidence he told me he was just trying to be supportive of a friend and he meant nothin by it.

[Unreasonable]

I'm confused. When exactly did he drop this "I wanna treat you right" line? In '07 before you two met, or more recently after you two met? Darn text communication! Heck, sometimes I don't even know who someone is talking about when they say "he", "she" or "we" when they've mentioned multiple people in the story.

 

Regardless, you took him back after all of this right? I guess he said he wanted to turn over a new leaf or whatever and you accepted that? If you don't trust him, why did you do that?

[Honey1]

I'm confused. When exactly did he drop this "I wanna treat you right" line? In '07 before you two met, or more recently after you two met? Darn text communication!

 

I know right. He met her in 07' she had a bf in which she told my current bf(lets call him Sam) she told Sam in 07 that she would leave her bf cause he kept cheating on her. In Jan of 2010 he found her on FaceBook and they started communicating. This is when he said the "now infamous" "Let me treat you how you deserve to be treated" She is still with her bf and he is still to my knowledge cheating!

Did this help or confuse you more? Sorry

[luv2bfit]

That still sounds fishy... If he said "You deserve to be treated better" or "you need another man to treat you the way you deserve to be treated"

OK fine.. That would not indicate he was referring to himself.

 

Saying.. "Let ME treat you the way you deserve to be treated"

That is pretty cut & clear in my opinion... He was either trying to get her back, or trying to get her to dump her boyfriend to be with him. Maybe he doesn't want to be with her, but it sure sounds like he wanted her to believe that.. Maybe he wanted an ego boost to see if she'd actually dump her cheating bf to be with him.

 

Either way, his arse would be kicked to the curb so fast now after hearing more of the story.. and then getting caught talking to her AGAIN. If I were you, I totally WOULD keylog his computer... you'll get your answer on what he's doing very fast I bet.

[Honey1]

=D> Hugs to you.

[Unreasonable]

Either way, his arse would be kicked to the curb so fast now after hearing more of the story.. and then getting caught talking to her AGAIN. If I were you, I totally WOULD keylog his computer... you'll get your answer on what he's doing very fast I bet.

How about "I don't trust you, honey. If we are going to be together, I am going to have to use every method at my disposal to make sure you're not cheating on me. For as long as I need to." See how he reacts to that. Then maybe she won't have to kick his arse to the curb. Maybe he'll leave on his own accord.

 

That would be the honest, right? Don't you want an honest and open relationship? Why keep up this cat and mouse game?

[Honey1]

Ahstaroth-For once I 100% agree with you. Though it makes me chuckle to see you quote luv2bfit. You are right and I should have said that because that is my intentions. To do what I feel necessary until I feel I can trust him. His word is NOT good enough anymore. Still I stand my ground and I'm thinkin about getting a tracker. To type that sounds so horrible! He won't tell and I must know. The only way to know is to find out!

[Unreasonable]

Ahstaroth-For once I 100% agree with you. Though it makes me chuckle to see you quote luv2bfit. You are right and I should have said that because that is my intentions. To do what I feel necessary until I feel I can trust him. His word is NOT good enough anymore. Still I stand my ground and I'm thinkin about getting a tracker. To type that sounds so horrible! He won't tell and I must know. The only way to know is to find out!

Well, sounds like you have your mind made up. I just hope, if he's innocent, that you don't get caught. It might be hard because sometimes when you can see into someone's whole life it's hard not to slip up and say something you shouldn't know. Or bite your tongue when he says something you don't agree with. And it's gonna be difficult when you don't really have any juicy keywords to go by that are going to make filtering out the chaff easier, since he doesn't seem to say overtly sexual things.

 

Before you do this, I would sincerely suggest placing a hard time limit, like a month or whatever, to stop. Otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy.