Open up and tell her everything or wait patiently?

[Keraron]

I was really, really, REALLY sad, no in true despair, when I saw that the girl I love (unrequited, but I don't mind; it is a matter of my values, principles and religion to pursue this love. I know many will disagree but it's a conclusion I reached after years and years of experience.) went on a holiday with a guy who stalks her and reads her private information, e-mails, chats through trojan horses (I found this out through my own investigation, but am unsure to tell her because he's the person who introduced me to her AND she doesn't like that her friends are told on/sneaked on), without inviting me.

 

I wrote the story here:

 

The main point is that we are best friends, tell each other everything, talk about everything, but ever since (I think) she gave up on me romantically, she stopped talking about love and everything surrounding that.

 

Am I legitimized to ask at least something like... "Wow, I see you enjoyed the holiday Why did you guys not invite me?"

[rosephase]

Is this guy who "stalks her" her "kissing buddy"/boyfriend of the past post?

[HouseKitten]

I think anyone who you're not in a relationship with, regardless of your feelings for them, is perfectly entitled to book a holiday that doesn't involve you.

 

You're not her boyfriend after all. I think if you bring this up, it's going to look petty, and it'll put her on the spot and make her uncomfortable and defensive because who likes to be made to feel like they did something wrong by having a life outside of another person?

[Keraron]

Yes, the "kiss-buddy" is using internet stuff like trojans and similar devices to keep control on her. From what I've gathered (consulted with IT specialists on this) he's doing this at least since January. But I have no proof of what exactly he does with the information... I can imagine that he uses it to his own advantage.

 

I'm not her boyfriend, but we're still best friends, and she didn't even tell me about the holiday until 2 days before she left on the holiday. Am I not entitled to show I was a bit hurt for that? Not criticizing her... simply asking the question, in a very lighthearted way, "Hey, why didn't you invite me? If you had told me before, I would have arranged to come at least for 2-3 days since I live very closeby!"

[HouseKitten]

I'm not her boyfriend, but we're still best friends, and she didn't even tell me about the holiday until 2 days before she left on the holiday. Am I not entitled to show I was a bit hurt for that?

 

Honestly, no I don't think you are. I'd be flummoxed if any of my close friends turned around and questioned why they weren't invited on holiday with me. A best friend you might be, but that doesn't give you any rights to her time.

 

Not criticizing her... simply asking the question, in a very lighthearted way, "Hey, why didn't you invite me? If you had told me before, I would have arranged to come at least for 2-3 days since I live very closeby!"

 

I would not ask this. If she wanted you to come, whether she thought it was short notice or whatever, she would have asked you. You're only going to put her in the uncomfortable situation of trying to find a polite way to say - she didn't want you to go.

 

I understand why you're hurt, but I don't think you're right for being hurt. If you feel this affected by your best friend going away on holiday with someone you dislike, maybe you need to examine harder your relationship with her, because you're acting like someone who is entitled to her vacation time, ie. a boyfriend.

 

I really don't think there is any way you can bring this up with her without looking possessive.

[rosephase]

Yes, the "kiss-buddy" is using internet stuff like trojans and similar devices to keep control on her. From what I've gathered (consulted with IT specialists on this) he's doing this at least since January. But I have no proof of what exactly he does with the information... I can imagine that he uses it to his own advantage.

 

 

Her "kiss buddy" is her boyfriend. She is going on vacation with him. That is normal. Couples take vacations together and often they don't bring along there friends (especially friends that are very clearly in love with one half of the couple)

 

By digging around to find dirt on her boyfriend you are being stalker-ish and creepy. BUT if you found something you are truly worried about I would still let her know. But understand if you tell her what you've been doing you are going to end up looking obsessed (Which is sounds like you kind of are)

 

You want my advice? Leave it alone. And don't try for a friendship with someone you are crazy about. It isn't honest. You are hiding your underlying motivation and that makes people uneasy. Back off until she is ready to date you or you are really ready to let go of the idea of dating her.

[ToF]

Sorry if this is too harsh, but:

 

A) You should be aware that you are no better than this other guy who is "stalking" her. You've been doing extensive research without her knowledge, and while it is not directly about her, it does directly involve her. So you are, essentially, indirectly stalking her as well. If you are genuinely concerned about this man/her safety, then you should tell her about your findings.

 

B) No, I don't think you have the right to feel left out about her going on vacation with this other man. You two are friends, regardless of any secret feelings you may be harboring. She has no commitment and absolutely no obligation to you. Why would you ask her why she didn't invite you? You won't like the answer. She probably didn't even think to invite you.

 

I really am sorry that you're hurting. To answer your question, no, I don't think you should bring this up to her. You may be the best of friends, but like I mentioned before, you have no authority over her life, as she has no commitment to you.

 

I do want to ask why you have never mentioned your feelings to her before?

[Keraron]

The "kiss buddy" is not her boyfriend, and she told me this explicitly after I clarified with her several times. She organizes trips quite often, usually inviting him, me and any other friends who are in vicinity. She organized the current holiday with him and several other friends, but without me. The reason may actually be very random, like she may have assumed that I'm busy (which is true), or that she's trying to alienate me.

From the way she spoke to me in the past, she often hinted at the fact that she wants me to be her boyfriend, but as I said in the older post, I was too insecure and inexperienced that I friendzoned her. I doubt that she knows I have romantic feelings for her, but she surely knows that I'm a very loyal and committed friend (I am towards my other friends as well).

 

I have not investigated in the real sense of the word. I never stalked anyone, neither her nor him. I just use common sense:

She sometimes gives me her computer for me to disinfect it and the antivirus shows what trojans are there. The trojans are in files the "kiss-buddy" sends her (photos, songs, etc) and quite funnily enough even the program code contained his signature! Finally, she once asked me how to find the IP address. I told her, but later asked her why she needed it, and she said that the "kiss-buddy" asked for it for some highly improbable reason.

All that time I never thought bad about the "kiss-buddy" and thought they were mere coincidences, but in the end his behavior and some abnormal activity while I and her chat add up to my conclusion.

I told all this to some professional security experts who agree with my conclusions.

 

Last but not least:

I'm not trying to show authority over her life, but simply express my feelings in an attempt to show that I do miss her, that I do regret not having kissed her, that I wish that she was my girlfriend, but even as a friend I'd really like to see her more often.

 

That's what I want to express... not that I want to control her. Not at all.

[ToF]

I'm not trying to show authority over her life, but simply express my feelings in an attempt to show that I do miss her, that I do regret not having kissed her, that I wish that she was my girlfriend, but even as a friend I'd really like to see her more often.

 

That's what I want to express... not that I want to control her. Not at all.

 

Then tell her? There's no reason to worry or complain about any of this, if you haven't taken a shot with her.

 

It's just silly, especially since you think she might feel the same. Be a big boy and say something, or let her go.

[Keraron]

Then tell her? There's no reason to worry or complain about any of this, if you haven't taken a shot with her.

 

It's just silly, especially since you think she might feel the same. Be a big boy and say something, or let her go.

 

I think I should but I feel there are two constraints:

 

- what most of my friends familiar with my situation are telling me is that I blew it by not telling her in person while she was here, and that the only thing I should do is wait until we meet each other again in person. Otherwise it would be virtual and as if asking someone to be in a long distance relationship, which I think she doesn't want.

We are both from quite international families that are highly mobile and move a lot, but for serious bureaucratic and diplomatic reasons, I cannot access her country at least for the next 4-5 more months.

 

- I have this gut feeling that even though she likes me, she is rationally imposing herself to "un-like" me. I can imagine several reasons for this, the most plausible being that while she was here we often discussed about love and relationships; I sometimes criticized "no strings lifestyles" as being a bit immoral, and, since she's very religious and maybe took it personally, I think she wants to proove me that it's not, and that "also from fun, serious things can start" (I'm quoting her own words).

Another reason may simply be all the practical stuff i.e. that I cannot visit her in her country etc.

 

So the question is: say something, but when?

Personally, I'd like to do as soon as possible, I want to pour my heart out like a waterfall into a river. But I'm very afraid by the distance, lack of physical interaction and things like that...

It would also be too strange via phone since we hear each others' voice only once a week or so.

 

A letter is the best thing I could do, but according to most people I know it would be the most unattractive and unromantic thing in the world.

[Capricorn3]

I think anyone who you're not in a relationship with, regardless of your feelings for them, is perfectly entitled to book a holiday that doesn't involve you.

 

You're not her boyfriend after all. I think if you bring this up, it's going to look petty, and it'll put her on the spot and make her uncomfortable and defensive because who likes to be made to feel like they did something wrong by having a life outside of another person?

^^ THIS!! I totally agree with all of the above!

 

Also, you talk about the other guy stalking her, but aren't you doing exactly the same by "spying" on them and "getting proof" etc etc. If anything, YOU are in the wrong here. You have absolutely no right to do what you are doing. It IS stalking and bordering on creepy. I mean, you even want to ask her why YOU weren't invited on her vacation with this other guy?? SeriouslY!!? It;s none of your business!!

 

You are obsessed with a girl who doesn't want you "in that way". Let her go and move on already. You're going too far and it's getting worse as time goes on. This is called obsession.

[ToF]

I see your point. It's definitely not a black and white situation.

 

It does sound as if she has an interest in someone else, even though he may not be a technical "boyfriend". If you say something to her now, it may come off as a desperate attempt to keep her away from him. Granted, you don't want her near him, but that shouldn't be your main motivation behind making your feelings known.

 

I think the distance is problematic. Pouring your heart out will not have the same effect via the phone or a webcam as it would in person. It could come off as hollow, and overall just easy to ignore. She seems like a very important part of your life, so this is obviously a very important message to convey. It would probably be best to do so in person.

 

There's a part of me that really wants to encourage you to not waste any more precious time and just tell her ASAP. This is not the most rational idea, but I will tell you that, if within the next 4-5 months (or until you can see her again), an opportunity presents itself to express your feelings, I think you should go for it. Even if it's virtual. If that golden opportunity doesn't happen, then bite your tongue until you can go to her, but if it does happen, then take the dive.

 

That's about the best advice I can give you. I hope it helps.

 

-Twist

[Keraron]

^^ THIS!! I totally agree with all of the above!

 

Also, you talk about the other guy stalking her, but aren't you doing exactly the same by "spying" on them and "getting proof" etc etc. If anything, YOU are in the wrong here. You have absolutely no right to do what you are doing. It IS stalking and bordering on creepy. I mean, you even want to ask her why YOU weren't invited on her vacation with this other guy?? SeriouslY!!? It;s none of your business!!

 

You are obsessed with a girl who doesn't want you "in that way". Let her go and move on already. You're going too far and it's getting worse as time goes on. This is called obsession.

 

Capricon3, I seriously get tired when people don't read the full details and start judging so harshly based on their own interpretation of the story.

 

I paste again what I wrote in a later post,

"I have not investigated in the real sense of the word. I never stalked anyone, neither her nor him. I just use common sense:

She sometimes gives me her computer for me to disinfect it and the antivirus shows what trojans are there. The trojans are in files the "kiss-buddy" sends her (photos, songs, etc) and quite funnily enough even the program code contained his signature! Finally, she once asked me how to find the IP address. I told her, but later asked her why she needed it, and she said that the "kiss-buddy" asked for it for some highly improbable reason.

All that time I never thought bad about the "kiss-buddy" and thought they were mere coincidences, but in the end his behavior and some abnormal activity while I and her chat add up to my conclusion.

I told all this to some professional security experts who agree with my conclusions."

 

And: She didn't invite only him but other friends (female and male) as well.

[Capricorn3]

I've been following your posts about this girl since you started posting about her.

 

And: She didn't invite only him but other friends (female and male) as well.

Doesn't that tell you something?? To my mind, it says a LOT! Seriously, just think about it. What exactly does it tell you??

 

Sometimes one just has to face reality and see it for what it IS. Sure, it hurts when someone doesn't feel the same way, but chasing after them is not going to change that fact. Learn to accept that she doesn't want you in that way and leave it be.

[Keraron]

Thanks for your advice TwistOfFate... indeed what you said now is also what most of my friends say: to do it in person.

 

It does sound as if she has an interest in someone else, even though he may not be a technical "boyfriend". If you say something to her now, it may come off as a desperate attempt to keep her away from him. Granted, you don't want her near him, but that shouldn't be your main motivation behind making your feelings known.

 

I confessed my problem to a girl who is from her same country and knows both her and him in person. She said that in their culture it is quite common to have many uncommitted flings until Mr. Right turns up.

She said she is 100% sure there's nothing serious between her and him, but that they may spend all that time together merely because it is convenient.

 

According to her, the girl I like does treat me in a special way. If we were just friends she would have invited me (like all other friends who went on that holiday), but if there's something more she would not want to hurt me.

 

As a matter of fact, the girl I like constantly keeps asking me when I'm going to her city. And as I wrote more recently, also her friends do

 

 

[Keraron]

Doesn't that tell you something?? To my mind, it says a LOT! Seriously, just think about it. What exactly does it tell you??

 

Quoting myself again,

"According to [another friend], the girl I like does treat me in a special way. If we were just friends she would have invited me (like all other friends who went on that holiday), but if there's something more she would not want to hurt me.

 

As a matter of fact, the girl I like constantly keeps asking me when I'm going to her city. When I will finish my exams, when I will get my Visa, and solve other problems in my life that block me from her countr etc. And as I wrote more recently, also her friends do ask that

"

[Capricorn3]

the girl I like does treat me in a special way.

To quote your words in your original post above:

 

"the girl I love (unrequited, but I don't mind;"

 

In what way does she treat you "special"? I would have thought if you were so special to her, she WOULD have invited you! By not inviting you, it seems like a brush off to me.

[Keraron]

To quote your words in your original post above:

 

"the girl I love (unrequited, but I don't mind;"

 

In what way does she treat you "special"? I would have thought if you were so special to her, she WOULD have invited you! By not inviting you, it seems like a brush off to me.

 

I said that I love her in an unrequited way, in the sense that I would love her even if she will never return the love the same way I do. I also distinguish love from desire, a bit similar to platonic love. As far as I know she doesn't love me the same way I do, but that doesn't mean she has zero feelings.

 

If I was NOT special to her and just a normal friend, she would have invited me as well and made out with the "kiss-buddy" right in front of me.

Instead - this is what most of my friends agree with as well - she is waiting till I and her can be alone in her city, so that we can clarify things alone. But until that happens, she's behaving like a free single uncommitted woman.

[Capricorn3]

After following your story all these months and it being more than obvious (to me) that she is NOT interested in you in that way, it's probably best to stay out of yout threads as clearly, you are going to carry on as before and refuse to take on board anything that anyone has got to say. Many others have the same take as I do, so I am not the only one who sees this. You are hell bent on this mission and nothing anyone says will stop you so there's no point in giving advice.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Good luck.

[Keraron]

After following your story all these months and it being more than obvious (to me) that she is NOT interested in you in that way, it's probably best to stay out of yout threads as clearly, you are going to carry on as before and refuse to take on board anything that anyone has got to say. Many others have the same take as I do, so I am not the only one who sees this. You are hell bent on this mission and nothing anyone says will stop you so there's no point in giving advice.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Good luck.

 

OK, but you're convinced based on your own prejudice or gut feelings, often ignoring the details

 

And what you say simply doesn't make sense:

Why would a girl spend so much time writing e-mails to me, sending me expensive SMS from abroad, call me, ask when I'll visit her in her city, and all this for more than 4 months that we haven't even seen each other?

 

Because she has nothing else to do?

[HouseKitten]

If I was NOT special to her and just a normal friend, she would have invited me as well and made out with the "kiss-buddy" right in front of me.

 

I think your interpretation of her actions here us overly optimistic. If she felt anything special for you then she would have invited you and not made out with her 'kissbuddy' at all. But she didn't. She chose being with him above spending time with you.

 

I think you need to stop focusing on what your friends are telling you and look at her actions. It sounds like you've been severely friendzoned here. If you've never actually asked her out then sure, hurry up and do it. But the things you've described, her texting and calling habits for example, don't neccessarily point to anything more than her wanting to keep you around because despite you not having a romantic relationship, you're providing support and company like a boyfriend.

 

I do hope you manage totake things further with her, but I think you need to get a move on and tell her how you feel before she hooks up with someone else and you're left being her 'close friend'.

[Keraron]

If she felt anything special for you then she would have invited you and not made out with her 'kissbuddy' at all. But she didn't. She chose being with him above spending time with you.

I think this interpretation ignores numerous factors, i.e.

- I "friendzoned" her first (in the first months we knew each other) and SHE is the one who talks to me about how "even a good friendship can transform into love"... honestly I don't believe in the friendzone, and I think she doesn't either;

- I once promised to visit her in her city but couldn't keep my promise due to my personal issues;

- I often behaved in a way that made her feel neglected as well.

 

Consider this:

If you have a kiss/f*-buddy with whom you can do everything and enjoy, and another person whom you like but who has never demonstrated any special commitment to you except strong friendship, and you needed some quick stress-relieving fun, would you invite both simultaneously?

Also, is it easier to fall in love with someone whom you kissed or with someone who avoided you when you tried to kiss him?

 

This is my own reasoning and not of my friends'.