For those that studied creative writing

[IntotheWild]

I'm interested in hearing about the experiences of anyone that has formally studied creative writing. Did you find your program made you a better writer, and if so, then in what ways? What kinds of things did they teach you and focus on? Would you recommend it as the best way to improve your writing or do you think other cheaper resources would have done just as well?

 

Thanks.

[asthesparrow]

I think studying something is always good because you are taught in a way different to any other, depending on the teacher. You are given ideas that you wouldn't have otherwise thought of or come accross...

You can also teach yourself, by reading and writing on a daily basis, by doing short courses and writing workshops, etc...

If you don't want to pay for the course, I suggest you look up the curriculum (the course structure/overview) on a school/college's website, and getting a general idea of the works they study, the styles of writing they cover, the authors they look into, etc... and just do it! write every day! read a new book or short story or journalism piece every day!

good luck

[Firiel]

My program did make me a better writer, but there are cheaper ways to improve your writing.

 

1. Get involved in a writers' group. Find a bunch of people that can get together and honestly talk about each others' stuff. Critique from other writers is invaluable. A group will also keep you accountable and ensure that you actually do keep writing.

 

2. Read, read read. And talk about what you're reading. Find people you can talk with about literature. Discuss why it works or why it doesn't. Break down the techniques found in the works and learn to utilize them in your own writing.

 

3. Listen to other authors. Go to book readings, poetry readings, whatever. There is almost always a question and answer session at the end. Don't be afraid to ask questions. You can learn so much from accomplished writers about why and how they do what they do.

 

4. Writing workshops. These are kind of crash courses in writing... some are great, some are terrible (from what I've heard, anyway). But I'd check them out. It's a good way to get some instruction for a relatively low price.

[jettison]

I met my longest relationship while on a smoke break at a creative writing class. I remember we were reading Raymond Bradbury at the time. I have probably taken a dozen classes, but I never took a program. I used to make these little short-story zines and sell them in the City. Years after I made the first one, my friend came up to me and said, "you know what, my professor brought your zine into our class and read some of it out loud to the students. He used it as an example of small-press possibilities and what was possible". That was about the highlight of my literary career. I was never published for real beyond technical writing.

 

I think a formal program will definitely help any aspiring writer. However, I think the #1 ingredient is a love for writing, while #2 is the drive/patience not to ever stop writing. Usually, it's #2 that will trump people in the end. I used to write 3 or 4 hours a night, self-publish my zines, and the whole world seemed to be about what I could put out on paper.

 

Then, one day, I fell madly in love, and my inspiration.... zapped. I wish this weren't so, but it's true. I was never the same writer after that. I was suddenly concerned about a million other things for some reason.

[Mauxly]

I'm getting a second masters in creative writing. I love it. Has improved my skilles tons. If you can afford it I suggest going back to college and getting into a program (if this is truly a passion).

If not get "Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft" by Burroway/Stuckey-French. Hands down the best text on fiction writing I've ever come upon, and I have book shelves full.

[IntotheWild]

Thanks everyone. I'm currently researching programs. If I could get a teaching assistantship and tuition waiver, then it would definitely be worthwhile I think. If not, I doubt I'll pay out of pocket for a full degree... it would be very expensive.

 

I've considered writing groups, but I'm intimidated by them. I picture this circle of expert wordsmiths exchanging silent stares as they hear the horror that is my writing vocalized before them.

[Firiel]

I've considered writing groups, but I'm intimidated by them. I picture this circle of expert wordsmiths exchanging silent stares as they hear the horror that is my writing vocalized before them.

 

But this is what happens in creative writing programs too, so you've got to get used to it sometime.

[Mauxly]

Thanks everyone. I'm currently researching programs. If I could get a teaching assistantship and tuition waiver, then it would definitely be worthwhile I think. If not, I doubt I'll pay out of pocket for a full degree... it would be very expensive.

 

I've considered writing groups, but I'm intimidated by them. I picture this circle of expert wordsmiths exchanging silent stares as they hear the horror that is my writing vocalized before them.

 

It would help you to read the book I recommended if you are concerned about slaughtering the page publicly. The book covers all of the common mistakes and the architecture of plot, narrative and dialogue. Good things to know!

 

If you can get that stuff down, it is unlikely that you’ll be laughed out of a writers group.

[jettison]

Thanks everyone. I'm currently researching programs. If I could get a teaching assistantship and tuition waiver, then it would definitely be worthwhile I think. If not, I doubt I'll pay out of pocket for a full degree... it would be very expensive.

 

I've considered writing groups, but I'm intimidated by them. I picture this circle of expert wordsmiths exchanging silent stares as they hear the horror that is my writing vocalized before them.

 

I recommend renting "Throw Mama From the Train". Awesome scene at a creative writing class/group. Absolutely HORRIBLE fiction. In reality, that's my very favorite part of creative writing classes... Writing so bad, and more poignantly, so self-aware, self-aggrandizing, and serious, that it's comedy gold.

 

I miss those days...

[HouseKitten]

I almost did creative writing at university. Almost, because I fell in love and found excuses to not go.

 

That said, I would have been going to mainly learn things like how to get published, to make some useful contacts and learn any tips and tricks going. I believe most people can write or can't write to some degree, and you can't make anyone amazing by going through a course. You can improve their spelling and layout and knowledge and general abilities, but I really believe it's one of those things you can either do to varying levels of success, or you can't.

[Hermes]

I agree HouseKitten.

 

learn things like how to get published, to make some useful contacts and learn any tips and tricks going.

 

Otherwise, I believe you either have the talent or you haven't, and no number of creative writing courses will change that.

 

There is a book by John Braine (Writing the Novel). A lot of common-sense in there.

 

And of course, E.M. Forster "Aspects of the Novel".

 

Hermes

[Firiel]

I agree HouseKitten.

 

 

 

Otherwise, I believe you either have the talent or you haven't, and no number of creative writing courses will change that.

 

There is a book by John Braine (Writing the Novel). A lot of common-sense in there.

 

And of course, E.M. Forster "Aspects of the Novel".

 

Hermes

 

While creative writing courses aren't necessary to hone talent, I don't believe that "you either have the talent or you haven't." Of course that is true to a certain extent, but even practicing and writing a lot won't cause you to reach your full potential. Writing groups with writers that you respect are invaluable to creative writers. If you just sit and write and send works off to publishers, you will never learn what you did wrong, and you will never be exposed to ideas that can improve your writing.

 

A few reasons that creative writing programs are useful are 1)because they force you to write and 2)because they allow for feedback from other good writers with similar experience. Of course, the beauty of it is that you don't need to take a creative writing course to reap these benefits... but I would greatly recommend having a group with whom you can talk about your writing instead of simply learning how to submit it.

[IntotheWild]

If you just sit and write and send works off to publishers, you will never learn what you did wrong, and you will never be exposed to ideas that can improve your writing.

 

 

Do you think it's ineffective to just try to learn by reading other great novels? This is what I've mainly done so far. I read well-respected novels and I study their structure, style, and voice, and then I look at my own writing and I try to see what it lacks. I know it's helped some, but perhaps it's no substitute for a writing group.

[Batya33]

I did a focus in creative writing within my major. I graduated over 20 years ago but what I remember was "if you don't know what to write about, get in a nice warm bath for 20 minutes and just soak". We were required to write one short story a week, I think.

 

It helped because of the enforced practice of writing, for sure. It also helped to be around other writers and have access to experts in the field. I knew I probably wouldn't pursue being a writer (I was too practical!) but my eventual career required intensive writing/writing skills so it definitely helped

 

I started reading books when I was 3. I was a bookworm, loved loved reading, and started writing stories at age 4. I'd say that all the reading I did/have done is what really improved my writing more than anything. I haven't written creatively in many years which is a shame but I am glad I did that major.

[Firiel]

Do you think it's ineffective to just try to learn by reading other great novels? This is what I've mainly done so far. I read well-respected novels and I study their structure, style, and voice, and then I look at my own writing and I try to see what it lacks. I know it's helped some, but perhaps it's no substitute for a writing group.

 

It's not ineffective at all. In fact, it's something you should keep doing because it helps a lot... a good mix of the old classics and good contemporary stuff really exposes you to a lot of great writing. But there is something about discussing your work with a writing group. And part of that is also just being able to see other people's writing and witness their own writing process at work. I'm sure you have some friends that are interested in writing as well... you could talk to friends that you think would be open to the idea. It's a lot easier to share your work with friends than strangers, which is one pro to a creative writing program (your fellow students will also be your friends) that is difficult to find elsewhere.

[IntotheWild]

It's not ineffective at all. In fact, it's something you should keep doing because it helps a lot... a good mix of the old classics and good contemporary stuff really exposes you to a lot of great writing. But there is something about discussing your work with a writing group. And part of that is also just being able to see other people's writing and witness their own writing process at work. I'm sure you have some friends that are interested in writing as well... you could talk to friends that you think would be open to the idea. It's a lot easier to share your work with friends than strangers, which is one pro to a creative writing program (your fellow students will also be your friends) that is difficult to find elsewhere.

 

I have a few friends that are willing to read my stuff and give me opinions. None of them are writers, though.

 

I'm going to try as best I can to get into a creative writing program that offers support. From what I read, it's pretty competitive. One aspect I like about a formal program over a group is that I have to get admitted to the formal program. So at least there I have someone telling me, "Yeah, you might not be wasting everyone's time."

[IntotheWild]

I knew I probably wouldn't pursue being a writer (I was too practical!) but my eventual career required intensive writing/writing skills so it definitely helped

 

Practical people can write, too!

[Hermes]

Yes! INTW.

 

Practical people can write, too!

 

I know.

 

H.

[Hermes]

And yes, it is vital to read the "greats". Listen to their different "voices", and realise that your own "voice" is what matters.

 

H

[catfeeder]

I would think in terms of classes or workshops, and from there you can decide whether a full program is for you.

 

I can appreciate your concerns about the snob factor, but really--isn't that the stuff we all build up to scare our pants off only to find ourselves helping out the next person in a room full of amateurs who unfortunately believe that WE know what we're doing?

 

If you take a class where you lead, the class sucks because it wasn't challenging enough. If you take a class where you're the laggard, the class sucks because you're too busy scrambling to enjoy the thing. Which is the bigger waste of your money? In my book, neither, because it shows you exactly where you stand if you're willing to use it that way.

 

Chances are, if writing is a passion for you, the only thing worse than a blank page is a blank page without a potential reader or a topic to motivate you. From there, you can make a mess and expose yourself as someone who can go BLAT! without editing skills, or you can cramp yourself to fit the editor in your brain and barely eek out a sentence. Maybe you're somewhere in between--don't you want to know where to start?

 

Then start.

[IntotheWild]

I think I'm probably misunderstanding some of your post. I've read it a few times, but I don't feel I have the gist of it.

 

I'm not really afraid of other writers being snobs. If they're really good and I'm really bad then it doesn't make them snobs to say so. But yeah, I would like to know where I stand. I'm going to apply to some CW programs and see what happens. If I'm admitted to any of them, then I can at least have the confidence that the committee thought I could do the work. With a writing group, I don't have the advantage of that initial judgment of competence. But maybe I'll join a writing group anyways... I don't know. Depends on how confident I feel on any given Sunday.

[Batya33]

I think I'm probably misunderstanding some of your post. I've read it a few times, but I don't feel I have the gist of it.

 

I'm not really afraid of other writers being snobs. If they're really good and I'm really bad then it doesn't make them snobs to say so. But yeah, I would like to know where I stand. I'm going to apply to some CW programs and see what happens. If I'm admitted to any of them, then I can at least have the confidence that the committee thought I could do the work. With a writing group, I don't have the advantage of that initial judgment of competence. But maybe I'll join a writing group anyways... I don't know. Depends on how confident I feel on any given Sunday.

 

What I do know about creative writing is that it requires intense focus and discipline and sacrifice. The wishy-washiness in your post makes me wonder how passionate you are about writing and how willing you are to make the time to devote to it.

 

You also might want to take some more general writing courses if the way you write here is indicative of your knowledge of grammar, etc. so that you don't harm your chances of getting accepted into the best program possible simply because you may have forgotten some grammatical rules. If your grammatical skiils are just relaxed here on this forum, that's different of course.

[IntotheWild]

What I do know about creative writing is that it requires intense focus and discipline and sacrifice. The wishy-washiness in your post makes me wonder how passionate you are about writing and how willing you are to make the time to devote to it.

 

You also might want to take some more general writing courses if the way you write here is indicative of your knowledge of grammar, etc. so that you don't harm your chances of getting accepted into the best program possible simply because you may have forgotten some grammatical rules. If your grammatical skiils are just relaxed here on this forum, that's different of course.

 

Do I really sound wishy-washy? I'm going to apply to programs. I just want to know if I have any talent before I go exposing myself to the world. If I don't have talent, I'd rather not waste my own time or the time of other people. It seems kind of arrogant to go push myself into a writing group, claiming implicitly that I belong there, when I have no idea if I'm worthy of their time.

 

And by all means, correct any grammar errors you see on my part. It may be laziness or it may be something I overlooked. I'm always open for correction. I believe I had a sentence fragment in my previous post... not sure what other errors. (I use the ellipses points a lot on forums, too)

[Batya33]

Do I really sound wishy-washy? I'm going to apply to programs. I just want to know if I have any talent before I go exposing myself to the world. If I don't have talent, I'd rather not waste my own time or the time of other people. It seems kind of arrogant to go push myself into a writing group, claiming implicitly that I belong there, when I have no idea if I'm worthy of their time.

 

And by all means, correct any grammar errors you see on my part. It may be laziness or it may be something I overlooked. I'm always open for correction. I believe I had a sentence fragment in my previous post... not sure what other errors. (I use the ellipses points a lot on forums, too)

 

Sorry - the grammatical errors/typos will have to be something you choose to work on - no interest in editing a post on a forum, I hope you understand ;-). The "any given Sunday" reference, while a cliche, stood out to me as an indication that perhaps you're not serious enough about this, at least yet.

 

Thanks for clarifying though and it's good that you care about grammar, etc. - that's something you can easily work on if you want to.

[IntotheWild]

Sorry - the grammatical errors/typos will have to be something you choose to work on - no interest in editing a post on a forum, I hope you understand ;-). The "any given Sunday" reference, while a cliche, stood out to me as an indication that perhaps you're not serious enough about this, at least yet.

 

Thanks for clarifying though and it's good that you care about grammar, etc. - that's something you can easily work on if you want to.

 

It's a constant struggle with self-confidence. Some days I feel like I can make it happen. Other days, I feel like saying, "screw it...who cares...you're not good enough, anyways."