ghost69 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 What makes a girl magical to you? -not crazy -very little or no drama -not clingy -and of course all the things i think are hot in a woman - the physical and the mental Link to comment
ghost69 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 -funny -smart (educated or naturally) -outgoing -family-oriented those are major physical upon initial attraction of course: -usually brunette -pretty eyes (dark features - usually green eyes) -nice smile -in shape/works out -height doesn't really matter Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 -not crazy -very little or no drama -not clingy -and of course all the things i think are hot in a woman - the physical and the mental By men's standards almost all women are crazy. How we think does not feel crazy to us. Unless you mean really crazy, like a danger to herself or others, that I can understand. By men's standards almost all women create too much drama. How we react to things does not often mean what it looks like. Unless you mean gun, jail, and hospital drama, that I can understand. By men's standards the vast majority of women are clingy. How much attention we'd like to receive to feel loved and secure eclipses that of most men many times over. Unless you mean joined at the hip clingy, that I can understand. As for the hotness, there is no accounting for taste. I'm sure she's out there somewhere making her requirement list. Link to comment
Sparkley Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 If he were out of the picture would that make it easier for you to figure it out? Well, I wish you all the best on finding the right guy for you, you sure deserve it. Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Well, I wish you all the best on finding the right guy for you, you sure deserve it. Thank you, it takes a very special man to appreciate me the way I'd like. Link to comment
BriarRose Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 By men's standards almost all women are crazy. How we think does not feel crazy to us. Unless you mean really crazy, like a danger to herself or others, that I can understand. By men's standards almost all women create too much drama. How we react to things does not often mean what it looks like. Unless you mean gun, jail, and hospital drama, that I can understand. By men's standards the vast majority of women are clingy. How much attention we'd like to receive to feel loved and secure eclipses that of most men many times over. Unless you mean joined at the hip clingy, that I can understand. As for the hotness, there is no accounting for taste. I'm sure she's out there somewhere making her requirement list. .. Oh, this is ALL so true! To men, I think drama = an emotional woman Crazy = emotional Clingy = true, IMO, all men hate clinginess. Which is really too bad for those of us who have been very hurt and need a little more reassurance perhaps than others. Personally, I don't mind some clinginess in a guy...but I might be in the minority. Link to comment
JusticeLaw9 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 .. Oh, this is ALL so true! To men, I think drama = an emotional woman Crazy = emotional Clingy = true, IMO, all men hate clinginess. Which is really too bad for those of us who have been very hurt and need a little more reassurance perhaps than others. Personally, I don't mind some clinginess in a guy...but I might be in the minority. We just have trouble figuring you all out, we'd like to, but then you won't tell us because you expect us to read your mind. And anybody who expects someone else to be able to read their mind is absolutely psycho! Link to comment
90_hour_sleep Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 By men's standards almost all women are crazy. How we think does not feel crazy to us. Unless you mean really crazy, like a danger to herself or others, that I can understand. By men's standards almost all women create too much drama. How we react to things does not often mean what it looks like. Unless you mean gun, jail, and hospital drama, that I can understand. By men's standards the vast majority of women are clingy. How much attention we'd like to receive to feel loved and secure eclipses that of most men many times over. Unless you mean joined at the hip clingy, that I can understand. As for the hotness, there is no accounting for taste. I'm sure she's out there somewhere making her requirement list. men feel this need as strongly as women do. unfortunately...we've been repressed...or opressed. the 'social code' that determines male and female roles has left many men incapable of truly acknowledging that. we spend most of our lives burying things within us...because that tends to be the hidden expectation. it's one thing to be aware of it...but to acknowledge that it's dysfunctional is pretty tough when you've been living the reality for such a long time. to break free and accept that we need love and affection as much as any woman is almost like stepping away from our gender. women are naturally seen as nurturers...so it's not really a leap of faith to express love. men are equally capable of nurturing...but we've been conditioned in almost every way to feel that it's not our primary function. Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 men feel this need as strongly as women do. unfortunately...we've been repressed...or opressed. the 'social code' that determines male and female roles has left many men incapable of truly acknowledging that. we spend most of our lives burying things within us...because that tends to be the hidden expectation. it's one thing to be aware of it...but to acknowledge that it's dysfunctional is pretty tough when you've been living the reality for such a long time. to break free and accept that we need love and affection as much as any woman is almost like stepping away from our gender. women are naturally seen as nurturers...so it's not really a leap of faith to express love. men are equally capable of nurturing...but we've been conditioned in almost every way to feel that it's not our primary function. I agree, that is an awesome insight you have! In fact, I think many men are afraid to get close to an emotionally demonstrative woman because they could forget to hide their interest in that kind of intimacy and be found out. Link to comment
90_hour_sleep Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I agree, that is an awesome insight you have! In fact, I think many men are afraid to get close to an emotionally demonstrative woman because they could forget to hide their interest in that kind of intimacy and be found out. wow. i've definitely observed that in myself...although not consciously at the time. i spent so much time fighting it. i know now how frustrating it was for the women in my life. how painful it is to throw yourself at someone and constantly be smashed against the proverbial wall. rejection. how much can a woman take. i imagine this is a very common theme in dysfunctional relationships...a key factor in many breakups. how can love possibly thrive. one person is in denial...and the other is in a constant state of bewildered resentment. i know these two polar opposites inevitably find each other though. they unconsciously seek each other out...in the attempt to find the touch of a healing hand. relationships in that light are truly beautiful. my emotionally stunted ''male'' side would've laughed at that idea once upon a time. cheers...and thanks for your own insight wave. Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 You're welcome, 90. I find your openness and honesty astounding. It restores my faith in the potential of the male gender. I was left in a constant state of confusion and hurt. I forgave and forgot until it became second nature. Unfortunately, there are so few men who are aware and feel free enough to promote emotional intimacy, even when I could extract myself from unhealthy relationship patterns with one man the cycle would likely repeat in a similar way with the next. I am feeling the need to be alone in the ocean now. Link to comment
90_hour_sleep Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 You're welcome, 90. I find your openness and honesty astounding. It restores my faith in the potential of the male gender. I was left in a constant state of confusion and hurt. I forgave and forgot until it became second nature. Unfortunately, there are so few men who are aware and feel free enough to promote emotional intimacy, even when I could extract myself from unhealthy relationship patterns with one man the cycle would likely repeat in a similar way with the next. I am feeling the need to be alone in the ocean now. glad to be of service. there's no shame in openness...once you've found acceptance. acknowledgement is my friend...the path to a better place. sometimes i wish i'd realized the depth sooner. roll with the punches though...mmhmm. constant state of hurt and confusion. i may have to quote you on that sometime...because i think it hits the heart of so many relationships. sometimes there's a role reversal (certainly women aren't immune to this concept). patterns are patterns...until you discover the hidden dysfunction within them...they continue to manifest themselves. i think for many...the patterns become unspoken truths to which they cling to. they find solace in what they 'know'. alone in the sea of samsara? Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 glad to be of service. there's no shame in openness...once you've found acceptance. acknowledgement is my friend...the path to a better place. sometimes i wish i'd realized the depth sooner. roll with the punches though...mmhmm. constant state of hurt and confusion. i may have to quote you on that sometime...because i think it hits the heart of so many relationships. sometimes there's a role reversal (certainly women aren't immune to this concept). patterns are patterns...until you discover the hidden dysfunction within them...they continue to manifest themselves. i think for many...the patterns become unspoken truths to which they cling to. they find solace in what they 'know'. alone in the sea of samsara? Thank you. I had to google "sea of samsara". Yes, I do the same thing by actually entering the ocean, spending a couple of hours awash, and coming out released from the bonds of my former deeds. The time spent in the water allows me to not be who I was for awhile which makes it easier to become who I will be. I cling to hope, not destructiveness. Link to comment
90_hour_sleep Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Thank you. I had to google "sea of samsara". Yes, I do the same thing by actually entering the ocean, spending a couple of hours awash, and coming out released from the bonds of my former deeds. The time spent in the water allows me to not be who I was for awhile which makes it easier to become who I will be. I cling to hope, not destructiveness. that's a very interesting statement.... Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 that's a very interesting statement.... You see, I was never interested in being in unhealthy relationships. I forgave, forgot, accepted, and tolerated many things when I thought it was for the greater good always hoping that my partner would see the light and do the work to heal so that we could have a loving relation. I spent much time and energy beginning each day anew with every hope of a brighter experience. I altered my responses every way possible and even tried no response. I made suggestions, requests, offers, and even demands, none of which made any lasting difference. My partners have somehow thought I was enjoying the dynamic which I was not. When I had had enough poor treatment even for a very forgiving and patient person, I left. I would rather not be alone, but if the alternative is a negative interaction on a regular basis, forget it. When I go in the ocean I will be releasing my bonds to that type of relationship and opening myself to the mutually supportive, kind, and loving relation I want. Link to comment
90_hour_sleep Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 that sounds incredibly frustrating...or it least it has the potential to be. it sounds unfortunate. i'm sure on so many levels these men were great partners. do you ever think that it was your own need to be loved and validated that caused some of the frustration (as opposed to your partners' behaviors)? i've thought that about my own ex. it seemed at times that she was literally blinded by that desire. i rarely felt like the ideal partner for her...and i often felt as if i was being used to fulfill her life's ambitions...like somehow i was her salvation. i never understood how a woman who was constantly being rejected on so many levels could stick around for so long...could hold onto that hope. i know it's not easy...watching someone you love shift in and out of consciousness so to speak. to be in a place of love in one moment...only to be replaced by a place of fear and hurt...and overall negativity the next. you can only be ambivalent to that kind of dynamic for so long before it 'breaks' you. i can't help but be accepting (and even empathetic) towards my ex when i consider how prone to those polarity shifts i was. to experience love with a person who in many senses has two very distinct realities...with no logical explanation as to what triggers those separate realities. that's the kicker. the transition was always without any real cause. it happened without warning...and it was harsh...and brutal...and just completely unforgiving. i wonder...was there a part of you that enjoyed being in the position of ''patient and forgiving''? like it was something you fed on? perhaps it helped to validate your own sense of self... i know it takes a certain 'strength' to stay with someone like that. i'm sure it's quite painful. but there's really nothing you can do. you can try everything with little or no result (as you discovered for yourself). there has to be an awakening...a complete shift in awareness. a shift towards the true self...as opposed to the destructive (needy) self...who is hell bent on conditioned patterns that create a fear of virtually everything. it's like being plunged into icy water...being forced to become conscious. it's shocking...but it becomes so abundantly clear that you've been 'wrong' on so many levels. it's really not your fault. i'm sure you know that...but there may also be that part of you that wonders: "what could i have done?" "maybe it was me." ''maybe i'm just no good.'' do you have that little voice of self-doubt... spreading it's poison? that relationship is out there. it's everywhere actually. question: would you ever reconsider any of these men if they came back to you with a newfound understanding...if they demonstrated a level of compassion with you...a level of acknowledgement? there's seem to be a very mixed bag of responses to this whole idea. interested to hear your thoughts. cheers Link to comment
dr_styles Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 i love being along 99% of the time. i like company too, don't get me wrong, but i love my independence. haha so many specific numbers in this thread. j/k. But the title did make me think that all I'm after is some sort of regular dating life. Like just a few hours each week enjoying the romance with a girl; well obviously more the closer people get. All the other times inbetween are better knowing there's someone who cares/loves/yada-yada-yada. To be picky and repeat the point, this is like one or two "parts of a day" for the whole week; percentage wise most of it will be at work, home, alone, whatever. Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Well, I don't think I'm really into rejection I think I'm really into what's best for my family. I have no history of volunteering for ill treatment. If there hadn't been children involved I would have been able to try everything necessary much faster and subsequently free myself much sooner. On the other hand, years and years of practicing this weird way of living altered me. In word I was the same as ever, but in deed I became that woman who loves too much. I cannot stress just how much that sucks. In a weird way, it's still about my kids. I have a really hard time forming a bond with a man when my kids have to come before him. Historically my ex husband truly and thoroughly put me squarely in the middle and I think I was pretty darned shell-shocked. The way I lived, you wouldn't believe. I couldn't even go to the bathroom with my ex (the "grownup") starting some loud hassle with my kids! Unbelievable. Anyway, I chose to change that dynamic permanently years ago. What I have now feels a little bit like post traumatic stress disorder. To get over it, I need a man who can be present emotionally, and patient and forgiving and most of all secure in himself so he doesn't think my weirdness has anything to do with him. For most of my life I wasn't so vulnerable and my emotions didn't fluctuate like they do now. It's really hard. The man I feel closest to ran as fast as he could in the other direction because I was "too emotional". Man, that hurts. I got this way from trying to look after my family, from staying in my marriage long enough to try every possible solution before letting go. I even remarried him and tried again, but admittedly not very hard the second time. For a mathematician to say that she has exhausted every avenue that says a lot. It took me 10 years. I could have done it faster but I was busy having a baby and supporting my family, raising my other child, running a household, managing the help, paying the bills, etc. I think what you alluded to about being wrong is what made me try it with my ex husband the second time. Just in case it was my perceptions that were skewed, just in case he really wasn't the most selfish person I'd ever known well (on purpose), I had to try again. When I left him the second time I knew for a fact that it wasn't my natural state that caused his behavior in any way. He manipulated and took advantage of me and I was aware and let it happen because I didn't want to believe anyone could do that to their spouse. Guess what, they can and they do. So in between my marriages to him it only stands to reason that I found a man who would capitalize on my vulnerability. When he wasn't being selfish though, he was very sweet and kind and accepting. I felt real love from him, just not real interest. I definitely hung in there longer than I would have if I hadn't been so suggestible. I didn't think he would save me, I thought he would love me at least until I healed. Love is a healing force, that's not unhealthy in my book. What was unhealthy was that I wanted something from him that he wasn't prepared to give me. I had no trouble understanding that, but it didn't make letting him go any easier since I had bonded so strongly with him. My self-esteem was temporarily washed away with grief. I still feel that bond, stronger than any other man in my whole life. Only him, if he someday became ready to try and roll with my changes I would be elated. All the rest will have to take their chances with other women, I've had enough. I realize I may be alone for a long, long time and that's okay with me. Between yesterday and today I found a piece of land to buy that is half a mile from the ocean. My identity is secure. I know I am sometimes still at the mercy of my body chemistry/hormones/brain function/ptsd stuff but hey, the rest of the time I am totally awesome! lol Link to comment
90_hour_sleep Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 My identity is secure. I know I am sometimes still at the mercy of my body chemistry/hormones/brain function/ptsd stuff but hey, the rest of the time I am totally awesome! lol well...i tend to agree. you exude a certain awesomeness and congrats on the land. in love with the ocean...beautiful. it's interesting to consider what it would take for two people to really reconnect. have to admit i consider it often. i know i'm there...ready for it should the opportunity arise. there's no way to force it though. life will happen...with or without our fullest attention. i have no intention of ever ''not being present'' in a relationship again. there seems to be no purpose without presence. the relationship becomes an outlet for our own self-absorbed tendencies that way. you're not in love with someone...it's more about security...and the temporary states of ''pleasure''. pleasure is great...but a relationship based solely on that is rather empty. there's no real substance to it. is your ex-husband the one that ran? or was this another man? Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 well...i tend to agree. you exude a certain awesomeness and congrats on the land. in love with the ocean...beautiful. it's interesting to consider what it would take for two people to really reconnect. have to admit i consider it often. i know i'm there...ready for it should the opportunity arise. there's no way to force it though. life will happen...with or without our fullest attention. i have no intention of ever ''not being present'' in a relationship again. there seems to be no purpose without presence. the relationship becomes an outlet for our own self-absorbed tendencies that way. you're not in love with someone...it's more about security...and the temporary states of ''pleasure''. pleasure is great...but a relationship based solely on that is rather empty. there's no real substance to it. is your ex-husband the one that ran? or was this another man? Thank you, and your awesomeness has not escaped me either. Oh no, my ex husband is only two miles away and would probably take me back again if I wanted to because he'd rather not pull his own weight in life and he would hope I could make that possible for him again. I have succeeded in inviting him off my property into the foreseeable future. My home is at peace, just the way I like it. It was the other man who ran away, or rather didn't come any closer. The relationship was unbalanced with me believing how we communicated was truly rare and him not believing it. I saw us as potentially so wonderful together and he wasn't as convinced. Eventually I couldn't take the cognitive and emotional dissonance and I broke down. All the way down. Fortunately for me, when I lose it I end up growing stronger, better, faster, smarter, happier than I was before it even started. I am many times the woman I was when we met. Of course, it's the times when I am an emotional wreck that I contact him, so he's not really getting a full picture. I have zero expectations that he will value our relationship in any way similar to the way I did. And I can't be near him under any other circumstances than even interest from each of us because history (without the identity crisis) will repeat itself. I'm a little at a loss for words when you say you are ready to show up with your whole self to your next relationship. I have no idea what that looks like on a man. No idea at all. I do believe you will find an amazing and wonderful relationship with your priorities set the way you have them. Enjoy it and every moment leading up to it and every moment you are able to connect with her and every moment you are learning about yourselves. Link to comment
90_hour_sleep Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Thank you, and your awesomeness has not escaped me either. thanks...i know...i am truly awesome. hahaha. It was the other man who ran away, or rather didn't come any closer. The relationship was unbalanced with me believing how we communicated was truly rare and him not believing it. I saw us as potentially so wonderful together and he wasn't as convinced. Eventually I couldn't take the cognitive and emotional dissonance and I broke down. All the way down. i think most relationships are unbalanced in a sense. there seems to always be one person that is either expecting more...or who is in a position to give more. i think it comes back to the healing dynamic. there is potential on both ends...but it's difficult to realize the potential hiding behind the more destructive qualities of the relationship. i do admire your strength. it takes something to walk away in love. i don't know what that's like...although i know what it means to be left in love...and to accept that. Fortunately for me, when I lose it I end up growing stronger, better, faster, smarter, happier than I was before it even started. I am many times the woman I was when we met. Of course, it's the times when I am an emotional wreck that I contact him, so he's not really getting a full picture. I have zero expectations that he will value our relationship in any way similar to the way I did. And I can't be near him under any other circumstances than even interest from each of us because history (without the identity crisis) will repeat itself. change...and impermanence. there is strength in that. the ability to let go. life is full of those opportunities. only when we're able to let go are we open to growth. it's amazing...the things we cling to. and in that needy attempt to hold on...we end up stifling the space that allows something to be. i wonder...if that's how the men in your life have felt...stifled. i'm not suggesting that you're clingy...or needy...only that that may have been their perspective. they felt that they didn't have the space to be. the more you held on...and hoped...the more they slipped away. it's very much counter-intuitive, isn't it. i know i saw that quality in my ex. early on she alluded to the fact that she'd found the man she was going to marry. that one thought (or perhaps assumption on my behalf) always kept me at a distance. I'm a little at a loss for words when you say you are ready to show up with your whole self to your next relationship. I have no idea what that looks like on a man. No idea at all. I do believe you will find an amazing and wonderful relationship with your priorities set the way you have them. Enjoy it and every moment leading up to it and every moment you are able to connect with her and every moment you are learning about yourselves. i'm not sure i know what it looks like either...only that it's something drastically different than what i've ever had to offer. i wonder if it's something that a woman would be able to observe. perhaps the right woman...one who understands the depth behind relationships...will see it. learning about ourselves. i really love that. the idea that a relationship can be a shared experience (because often it seems very much about two distinct individuals with no common interest in what is best for the realtionship)...in which you are both moving towards the same thing...a true communion...with each other and with life. it's an inspiring thought. ...and the thread dies. cheers Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 It's not dead, I'm just sleeping.... I tried 4 times to reply to each of your paragraphs and it kept getting eaten. I will try again when I am rested. Link to comment
90_hour_sleep Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 right...i know a dead thread when i see one. nice try though. haha. and now you'll feel compelled to respond...just to reassert the fact that it's not dead...or maybe you won't...just to prove a point. ha. analyze that. cheers Link to comment
waveseer Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 I will respond because I am a responsive person. Link to comment
90_hour_sleep Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I will respond because I am a responsive person. you're just trying to keep the thread alive...because i said it was dead. a part of you hates that i might be right and will stop at nothing to validate itself. haha. i already know you're responsive. Link to comment
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