Married but not living together. Not sure what direction

[Moveforward]

This is new to me but here goes!

 

I've been married for 15 years, and not living with my wife for the last 11. We moved apart right after my child was born (now 11). I live in apartment and my wife (we are still legally married) lives with her parents. We get to gether on the weekends and on special occasions. I don't see my daughter, typically, without my wife present. my wife insists we try and do things as a 'family' for our daughters sake. Typically when we are together we will argue about something. An argument once per day when we are togehter is not uncommon. This has been going on for 11 years now and I'm feeling very unhappy. Recently my father passed away and now I have some inheritance money to purchase a house. My wife wants to move in with me and try the 'family' scenario again for my daughters sake. She insists that in the house environemt things will improve and we can be a family. I am very torn ! Past history has shown it will not work. yet I want to do what's best for my daughter. I try to believe that my wife will stop her seemingly irrational and emotion outbursts (the root of many of our issues) but it seems impossible to imagine. I can't remember the last time i felt happy. I miss my daughter and feel i should have more fair visitiation - without arguing i.e. without my wife there. When I imagine us living together I get distraught, I can not imagine this being happy. I think I should insist on a legal separation and telling her she will not be moving into my house. I know this will lead to arguents. perhaps i'm just trying to avoid the arguments. I'm closing on my house in 1 week. I must address this soon. We tried counseling for over a year with no success. My wife seems to keep finding reaons that I should keep hanging on. it's always' just wait a little longer'. I don't know how long I should wait. I am extremely concerned that if she comes into y house it will lead to more frequent arguments and general miserable existence. I am also concerned about my daughter only experience me (her father) in only fighting situations and the impact that constant fighting results in.

 

I know I've unloaded a lot. Opinons and comments are truly wanted.

 

Thanks

[avman]

Well it sounds like you already have the answers. I mean, you are terribly unhappy in the relationship. Your daughter is already used to the two of you being split up. I don't think that trying to get back together for her sake is the best idea since you've clearly seen that it doesn't work.

 

You've tried counseling without success. And I am amazed you've hung in there for 11 years while being separated. But I think its time you wind this up so you can heal and become a happy person again. You must take charge of your own life and not let your wife run the whole show. You need to file for the divorce. And tell the court you want joint custody so that you have an equal say in things. Try and get 50-50 visitation or whatever schedule will be in your daughters best interest. They won't force you to have supervised visitation unless there is some problem I don't know about.

 

I think you know what to do. Its just going to take a lot of courage to go do it. Hang in there. Its going to work out ok.

 

avman

[Moveforward]

You did an excellent job of summarizing. Maybe I just need someone to kick me in the butt!

 

I don't think of myself as being indecisive but when I discuss these issues with the wife, and she starts yelling and getting agitated, it certainly seems easier to hide in the sand and remain status quo. What has been hurting recently is my daughter calling me up and begging to let 'us all live together'. I'm having a hard time dealing with that. I don't know if the wife is using her or not. But it hurts.

 

I'm also struggling with my technique. Should I just say 'we need a separtaion/divorce' and break all personal contact until the dust settels or continue to try weekend visits? my guess is the former......

[avman]

It can't be easy at all to hear that from your daughter. And you are right, it is possible she is being used by your wife. But you already know that it is the wrong move to try and get back together. That would probably do way more damage than has already been done.

 

I think you should discontinue your weekly visits and just start taking your daughter for the weekends by yourself. This doesn't have to turn ugly - just tell your wife that you have decided its time to make things permanent and that reconciliation simply isn't going to work. But say that you would like to cooperate as much as possible in the raising of your daughter. If things get rough, try to see if a mediator would help both of you develop a custody plan that works well.

 

Its not going to be easy, but take those first few steps. And good luck my friend.

[Moveforward]

Well, i told my wife that I felt reconcilation was unlikely and that we need to move forward with a separation. As I thouhgt the wife is VERY upset. The last couple of days she is insisting that we can work things out and that this is bad timing to do this (when is it a good time?). My daughter is getting involved niow and saying that this will ruin our lives if I dont let her and mommy move in, and that this is all she has ever wanted is to do... have all of us live together as a family. probably becasue my wife and I have been living separately since my daughter was born.

 

Jesus - Im feeling the pressure! i'm really afraid that if I let the wife move in she will never get out and it will be constant hell. maybe I'm wrong? At least that's what the wife keeps saying.....

 

legally i'm concerned as well. if I let her in without a separtaion in place can this lead to issues later concerning my house I just purchased? My attorney say 'maybe' - hard to tell since I purchased the house with inheritance $'s the house should be safe..but who knows what could be stirred up. getting the wife out of there could be difficult if trouble starts/continues. I know my wife - no matter how much we argue, she wants to hang in there. I know I'm just venting, but this is eating me up. Comments are always welcomed?

[avman]

If you let her move into the house you bought while you are separated you could be creating a case for making it "marital property". Then you couldn't just throw her out if things don't work. It would have to get settled through the divorce process. I HIGHLY recommend you don't do this.

 

You are going to have to be the one to make the tough choices. Your wife clearly isn't going to. You know it won't work out - so move forward with the divorce. I'm sorry she is using your daughter against you, but you can assure your daughter that you still love her and always will. That this has nothing to do with her, its just something that needs to be settled between you and your wife.

 

I'm sorry this is hurting you. Keep going, it will get better.

[Moveforward]

Thanks again Avman. I can not argue with your logic - for some reason I'm having a hard time carrying through. I havn't had many relationships in my life before getting married.

 

I'm closing on my house tomorrow and, at first, i didn't want the wife to attend. i won't say she insisted, but she said this was a key moment in my life and she wanted to share it with me. She also wants to go ahead and help me paint some rooms (along with my daughter) before I move in. I've tried to make it clear that our relatioonship is all but over - but she she insists that this will be some good tests for us and we should keep trying. I'm afraid that letting her participate in these activities will just get her more emotionally attached to the home, and make things more difficult. I can't honeslty tell if shes manipulating me or just really feels that's it's OK to go down this path. Ug.

[avman]

I strongly recommend that you do not allow her to do this. Why perpetuate something that makes you so unhappy? Make this house YOUR house, and not HER house (or OUR house).

 

Don't think you will be able to force her to understand your viewpoint. You likely won't. That will be up to her to figure out later. Otherwise this will just drag out another 11 years while you sit trying to make her understand.

 

I know it may make you feel better if she is 'ok' with the breakup. But you have to face the fact that she won't be ok with it. You seem like a good guy who doesn't want to hurt anybody. But your choices are to cause some brief pain now - or to endure years of deeper pain that you will have to just eat. And I really don't think thats going to help anybody in the long run.

 

Making any sense?

[Moveforward]

Avman:

 

yes, you do make sense. And you are right - i don't like hurting people so I am trying to avoid that, which I'm sure has perpetuated this situation. Why would I perpetuate something that hurts? Excellent question. Logically i wouldn't - so I'm not sure why i do. I suppose one thing is that the wife keeps arguing that things will work out - especially if we start living together in a house, and the other is i try to avoid getting her, and my daughter, upset. You're right of course, short term pain is likely better than long term.

 

As it turns out my wifes father has just recently gotten very ill. The wife (I'm avoiding using her name intentionally) is saying that if I break everyone up now - that would just be too much for her and my daughter because of her fathers illness, and that her father may actually blame hereself. (Wife and daughter live at her fathers). I'm trying to keep these situations separate, which I truly think they are. But that's the story I'm hearing right now.

 

I must deal with this. I know you're right - I'm just finding this difficult.

[Moveforward]

Well,

 

I took my wife to the house closing. I new inside that this was not right! But I did it anyway. Later In the day I tried to end it again, that turned into a big argument with her just insisting to give here another chance. Same old story.

 

Later I was out with friends from work at ahappy hour. (wife not there). My daughter started sending me text messages on my pager saying 'I was runingin everything she has ever wanted' etc. The messages came from my daughters email, but who knows if wife had anything to do with it. later at 4:45 AM on Saturday my wife shows up at my apartment with my daughter and says they cam over 'because they were worried' . I coulndt believe it! So i let them in and we went to bed. I couln't throw them out.

 

next day they are helping me pick out paints for my new house. Wife and I didn't fight entire weekend. EXTREMELY unusual for that. So she says 'See, we can get a long' Letting her help with the house is just leading her on I know, am I a jerk or what!? Am I being used here? This feels like a constant battle to try and end this. Why am I a sucker for her tears?

 

I'm starting to think the only way I can do this is cut all ties and just call my lawyer

[avman]

If thats what you have to do, then thats what you have to do.

 

Otherwise you are simply inviting more hurt and pain into your life. You are following her lead like a puppy dog. If thats not what you want, then STAND UP for yourself. Take action and call your lawyer. Otherwise you will end up wherever she wants you to.

 

avman

[Moveforward]

You're right, I do feel like I'm following her lead most of the time. Guess i was just trying to come to a mutual understanding, do this in the least argumentative way, etc. Also, I suppose I was holding out hope for something to happen and we could all be happy with our issues resolved. it is hard to imagine that though

[avman]

My friend, after 11 years I think you realize that there isn't going to be a "mutual understanding" in this case. Yes that would be the best possible situation and the least amount of conflict. But after this much time I just don't see it happening.

 

You will have to make the changes necessary to improve your situation. She isn't going to do it for you. I know I'm sounding a little harsh, but I just want you to understand that by doing nothing you will only perpetuate the misery that you are in. And I so want you to be HAPPY.

 

Good luck to you my friend.

 

avman

[Moveforward]

Well, I've been on the phone all morning with the wife. She is very upset and almost impossible to deal with. She was offering deals of more visitation with my Daughter if I could give it more chances. Finally I said enough! (spurred on by your 'puppy dog' comments) and I said we needed a separation as I was sick of being in this legal limbo. She called me back later and (at least for now) agtreed to seek mediation. As I understand it a mediation service will help work through a legal separation agreement which then needs to be signed off by an attorney. I feel good - this is moving in a better direction. Thanks for your continuing input and help. Anyone had experience with mediation vs a lawyer driven separation?

[avman]

The mediator will work with both of you to try and come up with a reasonable settlement. It is very different than using a lawyer (although you can still have one even in a mediation). The mediator will not choose sides. They will attempt to help you both reach common grounds and develop something you can live with. They are NOT your advocate, they are a facilitator.

 

If you can do this, it is a much less painful, less expensive, and faster way to accomplish the divorce. Because the two of you come up with the agreement, instead of having a court impose it on one or both of you, its much more likely you will end on good terms and that you can live up to the agreement.

 

The agreement that you both reach does not have to signed off by an attorney. It DOES have to be reviewed by a judge however. Because there are certain things that a judge may not permit if it is grossly unfair. I do recommend that you have your attorney review the agreement just to make sure you understand what it means. Because once it is entered by the court, its is binding.

 

Good luck! This is progress

 

avman

[Moveforward]

Boy this is a challenge! My daughter was emailing me all last night with her comments about giving it another try, and I am doing the wrong thing, and don't I love them anymore, I should be giving it another try, etc, etc.

 

The wife is saying we should give it another month - she has found an action plan that will make us happy again. Of course I need to move into my house over the next month so by default that means she'll be around to help. Frankly i've become so frustrated with the last 11 years that I can't imagine being together! I don't know if I've mentioned this before - but she has recenlty been diagnosed with Excessive Estrogen Syndrome (EES). She claims a side effect of this is anger and hostility and that a lot of our problems stem from this. Ok, I researched it and it seems like a legit medical issue- now she is being treated and she does seem calmer. but we have such history, I'm feeling that enough is enough! Ive waited so long, passed up relationship opportunities, argued every holiday and vacation, and generally feeling annoyed with everything even if we dont argue. I would like to be free of these hassles. Maybe it's just 'running away'

 

So...bottom line...she is asking me to slow down and wait some more. I've also made an appointment with a counsler for myself to help me understand these issues.

 

Thanks - feels better to talk

[avman]

Delays, delays, delays.

 

Its not going to make you feel better to wait... Now she's blaming 11 years of pain on Excessive Estrogen? And she waited all this time for a diagnosis?

 

Sorry, I dont buy it my friend. Just another tactic to throw you off balance.

 

Stay the course. Get the mediation going. Be free of the pain.

 

avman

[Moveforward]

yes, frankly it does all sound fishy. I can honeslty say that I do believe her to some extent. She was diagnosed late december. This occurred after I tried to break it off then, and she went to her doctor and demanded some investigation. A specialist was brought in, and this diagnosis occurred. They have been trying to get her into balance since. She has been nicer latley - but guess what? that has happened in the past as well, whenever I tried to break it off she gets nicers - for a while. Similar pattern coupled with a somewhat plausable story of a medical issue. yes, she has been told that she has probably always had this syndrome so hence our 11 years of issues.. So now I'm hearing 'ghive more time, we havn't tried this approach before'.

 

Thats' it in a nutshell. I can certainly see how you would be skeptical - I'm getting that way too.

 

Of course I didn't want to see her this weekend, but I'm getting hammered by my Daughter to see 'mom' since it's valentines day. Another familiar pattern - it';s never a good time to break up!

 

I have a counseling session set for 3/5. Looking forward to it

 

Comments welcomed.

 

Has anyone else been reading this thread also? Please feel free to chime in!

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[avman]

Good luck my friend.

 

Other members, please do chime in here with your thoughts on this. I didn't mean to monopolize this thread

 

avman

[Moveforward]

Avman,

 

Hopefully I didn't imply that I felt you monopolized. Your thoughts, comments, and wishes are always apprieciated and welcomed

 

Thanks!

[avman]

No worries Just trying to encourage other responses as are you. I'm curious about what others think of this situation as well.

[Moveforward]

Greetings,

 

Hopefully others will read this thread and give some comments - I dare you all !

 

Apparently my wife has now read a book and contacted the author. She is convinced things will change. This is definelty a familiar pattern - but now 'things are different'....so im told...anyway: here's what she is working with now.

 

link removed

 

I do respect her drive to stay together, but just as I said before, I really question if I have just had enough over the time. I have No motivation left to try anything.

 

I will keep all informed and look forward to your vairied opinions. Please comment with your thoughts.

[Moveforward]

Well, appears not many want to add their 2 cents worth.

 

Update: for the last 2 weekends the wife and I have had NO arguments at all. I must admit that this is extremely unusual. The wife attributes this to her hormone treatments for her hormone imbalance as well as the activities she has begun around improving the marriage via the previous mentioned web address.

 

My daughter is begging to give it another chance.

 

Wife says she will not move into the house unless I say OK and unless all is OK relationship wise. When I say to her that this is a similar pattern as in previous years, she counters saying that it is NOT the same since the hormone treatment and the specific steps she is taking are different - certainly this a true statement. She begs me to hang on for a while and see how it improves. She is very insistent that I'll feel better as time goes on and we don't fight. I'm struggling with how I feel internally - i.e. have I just had enough and can't continue? Am I really in love with her anymore? Etc. Difficult sole searching needed.

 

Regardless: I wanted to give all an update

 

Thanks

[Moveforward]

So, like I said before my wife and I have gotten along for 2 weekends, about 1.5 weeks. A record for our 11 years of being separated.

 

background: My Daughter (11) and my wife have been living with her parents for last 11 years ever since we split up. her father is having medical issues recently, and has begun some dementia episodes.

 

So last night, my wife says that stress at her parents is too much for her and that she may not be able to wait for me to make a decision about her moving into my house and that she may need to move out soon - rememebr we have only gotten along well for last 1.5 weeks. Anyway: I think I did a good job of listening to hear and sympatizing with her but then she said she may need to move soon and will probably go to a differnet town that I am in (closer to where she works). This got me annoyed, it reminded me of how little legal rights I currently have, and why would she immediately jump to moving to another town and be so quick to put space between me and my daughter? I agree she can move wherever she wants, but she jumped on that so readily it pissed me off. When I was looking at houses I tried to discuss location in regards to school district, what would happen if we wern't together etc. That was one of the reasons I settled where i purchased - in same school district and town where my duaghter and wife currently are. She also said that wherever she moves it willbe for a while since she doesn't want to be a 'traveling gypsy'.

 

Oh well - evening didnt go too smoothly. Today I said that i wanted to have Daughter alone this weekend - she said NO. again, I seem to be at her whime sometimes.