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Violence-My job in jeprody?

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I had very very unfortunate incident occur at my store this morning. I'm the proprietor of Guitar shop here in Concord. As you can imagine my goods attract all kinds of customers from all different age groups. I have men on walkers coming in and 8 year old guitar phenoms as well. In the morning we're usually not very busy, but apparently some punk Marine recruit, his buddies, and their girlfriends decided to come in and correspond inappropriately with my staff, and mingle with my merchandise in a manner not so pleasing. I had a manager on duty who told them to leave, but they laughed and kept going on as they please. The manager calls me up from the office, and I semi got in their face, something one of the kids didn't appreciate. He started calling me and my shop "emo" and "gay" (plus various other profanities relating to sub-cultures, etc) and pushed me into an expensive set of guitars when I told him to "go to Iraq and die already." My response wasn't pretty. I slugged the kid in the face, knocking him down and busting his eye open. A skirmish almost broke out as two of his buddies grabbed me and we wrestled a bit. His girlfriend started crying and pretty soon the police arrived. The kids were taken out of my shop and banned from it, but the police told me that they would contact me regarding my consequences.


Now I'm both confused and scared here.

I understand that I did strike a minor, but I was also provoked physically before I punched him.

Secondly, I did make some unpatriotic comments, but they can't file charges for that can they?


Any insight is appreciated.

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I don't think they'll charge for the comments, but they might charge for knocking the kid down and busting his eye open.


Since he physically assaulted you first, you should be able to get away with it... Note that this is the "should" of "if the justice system is fair", not the legal "should", I have no idea about that.


Anyway, I'm not much help but I just wanted to tell you that from what you describe, I would probably have reacted in the same way.

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Hopefully there won't be any lawsuits going on. Was a detailed statement given to the police about what exactly happened. For your own records, I would write down everything that happened (which you seem to have done in this post) and keep it in your files. Was there damage to your stock? Were you injured in any way when you were pushed? Were there witnesses to this whole event? I don't think they can do anything to you about those comments...those are just words. It is the physical part that they will get you on...make sure you stress that this person got physical as well. Two wrongs don't make a right but if you are called on the carpet for assault, so should he. As well, you might want to check with a lawyer about "gangs" and mischief. I wouldn't go after these people legally..but if they go after you legally, it is best to know what recourse you have since they harassed you, scared your manager etc.

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You should probably contact an attorney before having anymore communication with the police. You did assault the kid and it's likely they will file charges against you. I wouldn't be surprised if you also end up facing a civil suit from the kid and their family over it.


Next time just call the police first and let THEM kick the people out of your store.

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So he should just take the abuse and let himself get pushed into expensive items and patiently wait for the police to arrive?


Um I believe he told them to "go to Iraq and die" first. They didn't come into the store swinging and threatening him where it could be called self defense.

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You're going to jail......what the charges are going to be will be determined by the laws in your state.


But provocation is not the 'right to fight".


Your obligation was to call the cops and have them removed - not physically remove them yourself by force.


So you've basically hit a minor....that can have civil lawsuits attached if his parents are so inclined.


But you're most likely going to stand trial for assault - whether that's a felony or misdemeanor only an attorney can tell you, and it's possible there will be subsequent charges as he is a minor. Although, if he's a marine and enlisted - I do not see how he could be under the age of 18...which is majority in all states.


If you think because they didn't cuff you and take in you immediately they won't - you're wrong. they wanted the situation to end, they want to see if they can resolve it without criminal charges, letting it default to civil liability, particularly if this guy is going to deploy and would not be around to testify on his behalf, regarding the situation.


But if I were you, I'd anticipate being charged, cuffed, fingerprinted and having to post bail within 24 hours.

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Well, I'm sure his parents won't file charges since I just got a voicemail from this kid's father saying "If Jarod was horsing around in your shop and pushed you then I'm glad you had the balls to swing at him. Maybe next time he'll learn not to mess with old guys (laugh)"

However, I still don't know about the police. Alot of people I know are mad at me regarding my unpatriotic comments since but felt I was within right to defend myself.



I'm sorry if you got the story mixed up but he and his friends yelled various profanities at me before I said the Iraq comment AND he also shoved me into those guitars before I slugged him, so my reactions were entirely provoked. Just wanted to clear that up.

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Here's the bottom line......you're not looking at the practical reality.


Unless this kid also has law enforcement issues pending against him where he doesn't want any contact with the cops - he's down there right now filing charges for assault. That's because you hit him - that's what assault it. It's not situationally reviewed to be determined as to whether it's assault or not - based on what the kid did or didn't do/say.


It's assualt because the definition of that in legal terms is you putting your hands on someone else and they object to you doing it...period be it in sexual excitement, heated anger, or just in casual contact.


While his dad might be delighted that you've taught him "not to mess with old guys" - if an attorney gets wind of this and there is money to be actually had in the form of a judgement against you for mental suffering and anguish - his father is likely to be all about it - staunchly standing by the boy serving his country that you told to you and die in Iraq...and that's the type of comment in a civil suit that will cost you millions.

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Do you have cctv? Because i think that would help. Im not sure about the law where you are from but here in the uk im pretty sure that it wouldnt even come tobeing arrested as they stated it,were on your property,and got physical first. We have a law about using excessive force in retaliation,but in this situation the cops here would either charge the both of you or just give the both of you a warning.

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Can that comment seriously hold any weight against him in court though?


I don't know anything about US law, but I am aware that the US has freedom of speech. And if making fun of/insulting the govn't or army isn't protected by freedom of speech you might as well move to those countries the US is bombing.


To make this comment have any bearing on the case is to essentially make it illegal to say, and that just runs dangerously close to violating freedom of speech.


I'm not a lawyer though so this is all speculation.


I think you should probably get a lawyer though. This could get messy, for the assault thing, not the Iraq comment. I really don't think it'll make a difference.

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Sorry, I thought I had read that you insulted him before he pushed you.


However, assault and battery is still assault and battery. It's not something I want to play armchair lawyer about. I do think you should at least talk to an attorney and be represented just in case charges or a lawsuit is filed. The law is a tricky thing and the police can use statements and other items of evidence against you. If you happen to have an aggressive district attorney that decides to prosecute well then you will have to deal with it.


My advice would still be to get an attorney for your own piece of mind. Do it before police come knocking at your door and then you will already have an advocate on your behalf protecting your rights.

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I would suggest you save that voicemail message. It shows a lot about the character of this person if even his father is fed up with him. If the you know what hits the fan, a lawyer might be able to find plenty of dirt on this guy if he has a history of harassing others.


Excalibur, I think the mental anguish goes both ways...it is very frightening to have a gang of punks start up in your store and you don't know what they are planning on doing. Especially if they are getting shipped out to Iraq, there is a lot of pent up aggression..who knows what these people were capable of. While the OP shouldn't have done what he did, there is also the fear factor on his side as well.

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You are an adult. He is a minor. He will probably get away with a warning. You....are in trouble. You can't hit a minor. Period.


I'm pretty sure it's not that simple. I have read cases of adults getting away with hitting minors when it was in self-defence. From his account of what happened, the kid is the one who started taking the confrontation to a physical level.

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