Disrespect and Frienship

[LBP]

There's a friend of mine who, quite recently, showed a level of disrespect to me which was something of a revelation. He's not the only one, but he's the one who did it to the greatest degree. We had a talk about how things went but since he lives a fair distance away from me I decided that we could let things lie, emotions cooling, and deal with what we have to when that time arrives.

 

Well, our little reunion is just around the corner. I feel ambivalent about how I'm going to act. I've got a lot of notions bouncing around in my head - one thought was to simply slap him accross the face and tell him that if he thinks he can get away with this kind of crap, he's got another thing coming. That seems fairly neanderthal. I could stick it to him about all the nonsense he's pulled recently, and in the past, just to get everything on the table. That strikes me as whiny and inconclusive. If he doesn't respect me, how does telling him just what I think make a difference?

 

Now, I don't want to do what I'm sure most of you will say, ie, "Well, just cut him out of your life." In my view, that's a copout. I want to deal with this rather than thrust it aside. I know he feels contrite for his actions but that doesn't change facts. I don't want to be insulting but, clearly, I've come off as a weak enough person that this individual (and others) has no compunction against treating me like a lesser man. There is ground that must be gained.

 

Another part of me wants to tell him to strap on some boxing gloves and settle this like men. Again, uncivilized. Can't say that I don't want to pop him one, though. I want a good way to deal with this. Anyone have an opinion?

[CarnelianButterfly]

What was it that he did that you consider so disrespectful? That I think is very pertinent to the reaction, if there should be any.

[Miss Firecracker]

I think you shouldn't say a thing to him. He doesn't respect you, so that's fine.

 

Whatever you did to lose the respect I don't think words will change it.

 

Just shake it off and move on.

 

Sounds hard, but it really isn't.

[LBP]

Well, he moved in with my ex as a roomate. Before he did, he and I had a conversation wherein I said, "I've got not control over you or ex, but it'd be hard for me if anything started going on between you guys" (other male friends were also moving in with her). Out of them all, he was the one who looked me in the eye and said, "I promise you, nothing will ever happen, LBP." Exact words.

 

Of course, stuff did happen. They start dating, without me hearing a word about it, and only figuring it out because his first reaction was to ignore my calls, whatever else. Of course I knew what was happening because he'd have no other reason not to talk to me. If he had simply said, "Hey man, things have gotten close between me and X, I just want you to know, okay?" things would have been different. He didn't do that. He did eventually send me a message on facebook saying he was sorry for 'whatever offense this may have caused you.'

 

This was even after I'd been to visit my college buddies and, as it was clear he felt awkward, I asked just what it was he was feeling weird about. He said it was nothing... Again, despite the fact that I could see it plain as day.

 

So, basically, lying to me, avoiding me, putting undue strain on the friendship (as well as with other friends who are involved) and taking no responsibility for his actions. This, as well as talking garbage about me behind my back.

 

There's in fact quite a bit more but it's not a lot of fun to go on about.

[LBP]

I think you shouldn't say a thing to him. He doesn't respect you, so that's fine.

 

Again, I think that's a copout response, but I appreciate your advice all the same. I wish it were that easy. Basically it throws a wrench into my entire social group, on top of the fact that I've made a fair amount of plans, encompassing the following months, which involved him previously. Do I just assume he should know that he's not welcome? Do I tell all my other friends, who are his only friends in the area, that he's unvited to our social occasions?

 

It's a compromising situation and I want it settled, if only in the short term, rather than avoided.

[Miss Firecracker]

Why is it a copout? He dated your ex. There is no reason to apologize for something like that, LBP. He didn't plan it, things happen. It would be a whole different thing if you were still with her, but she had finished the relationship.

 

I don't see what he did as a crime. You should forgive him.

 

But that's just how I see it.

[LBP]

I also believe that a woman is a terrible reason to end a friendship. Absolutely terrible. We can be bigger than that.

[LBP]

Why is it a copout? He dated your ex. There is no reason to apologize for something like that, LBP. He didn't plan it, things happen. It would be a whole different thing if you were still with her, but she had finished the relationship.

 

I don't see what he did as a crime. You should forgive him.

 

But that's just how I see it.

 

 

Well, he did look me in the eye and make a promise. No one else did that. He did it, for me, because I was there for him when he was going through something similar.

 

I think I'm not making myself clear. It doesn't matter to me that he's dating the ex, perse. That's fine. We've been done with for a while. It's that he decided to sneak around about it, keeping things in the shadows, all the while whispering slander because it vindicates his actions.

 

Another thing. After he finally messaged me, my response was to tell him that I know he'd been looking for love for a while and that I was glad that he found it. He didn't say a word. Yeah, that bothered me too.

 

And you can't seriously think that it doesn't change the dynamic of our friendship, especially if she hates my guts and enjoys going around saying things like, "LBP isn't a man" and "LBP is pathetic" and etc.

 

I suppose you're right and I should just pretend that nothing's happening. I hate being powerless and I especially hate being lied to (which he DID do, even if you discount the promise).

[Miss Firecracker]

He failed as your friend. I agree with that. We all fail at times.

 

A friend of mine failed me. I still love her to this day even though she can't face me and after 20 years. I still have a needlework on my bedroom wall that her mom did. She tired of this and gave it to me, and I still look at it each night and remember that friendship.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I think you should get over it. You have no say over who your friends or your ex's date.

 

He broke a promise, fine, but the fact is, you pressured him into that position by your convo before he moved in. You were acting like an emotional ex and being territorial, so you aren't really being upfront when you say you don't care if they date. You already said it would be hard.

 

Honestly, if you say anything it will look like you are still the emotional, territorial ex. If anything, don't have any thing to do with him, if he asks why, tell him you don't like how he handled the situation and you don't want his friendship.

[LBP]

So, even though I asked for advice other than avoid him, your advice is to avoid him?

 

I told him that it would probably bother me. I thought it would bother anyone that I was just trying to be honest...

 

Like I said before... What I DON'T want to do is to throw a monkey wrench into my social group. I have had all these activites planned with them that have been in the works for over a year and my only option is to say, 'ah, screw it' and pretend like I'm above it all? Seriously??

 

Okay, there has got to be a CONSTRUCTIVE way to make amends. As it is the best I can come up with is to pretend like he doesn't have a relationship and to nod my head and bid adieu whenever he leaves to be with her.

 

To remphasize that I don't want to end the friendship on the basis of his or my bad behavior up to this point, is this my only option?

[LBP]

Sigh. Forget about it. I just wish that my friendship hadn't been ruined over this whole thing.

 

I guess I should just accept that he's gone and let him go.

 

Goddamnit. You know how to make a point, Carnelian, but it can really make a guy feel like a piece of crap.

 

I know I shouldn't care. I really know. But my friends are my brothers to me. I guess I didn't say it, but it's the losing a friend which hurts far more than the fact that he's dating my ex. I've never just had a friend decide to cut and run and me before. Makes me angry, agrieved, hurt all at the same time. And the fact that he felt like he -had- to lie, that he couldn't even talk to me... What am I? Am I that bad?

 

Well, at least it's cathartic to talk about, even if it's here. A man can't really talk about this stuff to anyone without seeming weak. I'm an emotional fella and it's hard keeping things bottled up all the time. Still, it's what you have to do.

 

There, I feel better. I guess I'll just pretend like none of it ever happened and hope for the best.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Do you really want to save the friendship? His actions don't really make hims seem like a real keeper. A good friend would have been honest and upfront.

[LBP]

so does the fact that it bothers me at all mean that I'm a 'territorial ex'? I know they called a conference of all my friends and such to tell them what was happening (man, the unecessary drama also bugs the crap out of me - like it was such a big deal... Of course, here I am agonizing over it), so clearly there was some sort of boundary being crossed (or the like). If I were in another relationship, would I just say to hell with both of them?

 

Just speculating. I really couldn't say. A lot of the problem is that she can't stand the sight of me and the subsequent difficulties this entails.

 

I mean, I can't even blame him for dating her. I don't know that I'd do any different in his shoes. But I do think I would have said something to the friend I was doing it to.

 

Nyeh, assigning my moral values on someone else.

 

Hey, this may be tiresome, but it's what I'm doing INSTEAD of confronting my friend. There, I answered my own question. Vent about it on the board.

 

See, I'm hoping there's a way where we can both prosper and move on. It's not like he killed my cat or anything. I want to work at it instead of just letting things go. But like you've said, that's really all I can do.

[Miss Firecracker]

Just remember the slander he was whispering was what she whispered to him.

[Excalibur]

Geez honey, get over it.

 

The only person with a wrench in the group - is you with it up your your know what.

 

So what that he dated your friend, and slept with her.....he told you he wouldn't, and hwen eh said he wouldn't - he wasn't at the time. But he was talking about 'right now, in this situation, if it stays this way".

 

Well, it wasn't going to stay that way - they were moving in with one another, which allows for proximity and intimacy.

 

Get over it.

 

He didn't disrespect you by dating and sleeping with her.....he didn't lie to you by promising he wouldn't and then doing it either.

 

That type of promise extraction is you going 'I have ouchies, and hurties nad insecurities, I need to know that I am ging to be the only one in our group that you adore, worship, wish you were with, and desire to be around in that way....now, I want to have you in contact with all the female group, so that everybody knows I"m special because yo'ure off limits, even though we're not dating.

 

Grow up.

[wayoverit]

You're right.. he should have the decency to tell you first, before he went on to break his promise to you.

 

Solution: Tell him exactly this. There are certain unwritten rules in promises made toward a friend. If and When a promise is to be broken, at lease inform me first, out of respect for a friend. I demand an apology damnit.

 

 

If he doesn't follow up with this, he's history, in my book.

[LBP]

So if a good friend of yours dated an ex that hated you and excluded you from all social situations, you'd be fine with it?

[Caterina]

I'd call him and say, "It was a bit of a mistake to say that we should hang out. I have lost respect for you as a friend. (no discussion, no pause) Bye."

 

You can't let jerks walk all over you. Honestly, I don't blame you in the least. I'd probably fight him if he tried to say anything back other than that I was master & king.

[Excalibur]

So if a good friend of yours dated an ex that hated you and excluded you from all social situations, you'd be fine with it?

 

Yes.....my motto on all association is 'I want the best for you as YOU determine it to be" -that lets me stand back and evaluate based o what they do and pursue and who they're with - the standards, values and beliefs they hold.

 

If a friend of mine wanted to date one of my ex's..and that ex detested me for whatever reason, that'd be her choice.......

 

Obviously, if someone doesn't like me then it's not going to be pleasant for me to be around them, so why would I be upset that I'm not around someone who doesn't like me? I wouldn't.

[Anotherday]

Personally, I'd want nothing to do with a person who would hook up with an ex of mine, be it above board or not. I live by a code of honor where one just does not do that stuff.

 

IMHO, you are the far greater person. Take the high road. I believe you know what it is inside of you.

 

ETA: Perhaps i missed something in this thread, but it seems more about your sense of honor than your feelings for this girl?

[LBP]

Definitely about the honor. Complete lack of respect on his part. And how can you be friends with someone who doesn't respect you? I don't want her back, at all.

 

I'm still on the bubble about what to do.