Wonderstruck

3 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I've talked to men about this on men's forums, in my support group, my brothers and even the men I've dated and had relationships with, and one common complaint I hear is that women often possess what is referred to as a "b*tch shield."

They're either walking around wearing ear plugs listening to music or otherwise appear to be very closed and guarded with a "don't bother me" look.

Yes, women do this DELIBERATELY because they DON'T want random men approaching them, trying to hit on them or ask them out, when they're just trying to peacefully go about their day.

It's often one of the only ways to get men to BACK OFF and LEAVE US ALONE.

And the term "b*tch shield" is absolutely disgusting.

The men on those "men's forums" you frequent sound like creepy Incel losers.

Stop holding women accountable for men's actions.

On 5/21/2024 at 10:21 AM, smackie9 said:

And this is what women have to put up with almost everyday. Some guy being a total creep, leering, pushing boundaries, touching, groping, etc. We have to always just be aware...and guys just don't get that. They label us as "feminists" ruining their dating lives/chances to get a date, when we are just protecting ourselves. They need to blame the jerks that treat women disrespectfully. 

Thank you so much for this comment.

There are even some very pathetic women who will do this, to try to show that they're "cool girls who are not like the other girls".

@Superstickyone, you did NOTHING wrong, and please don't listen to any victim-blaming comments.

19 hours ago, Single Guy Needs Help said:

If a 53 year old man has a thing for a 33 year old female he's seen in a good light, whereas the 33 year old female is seen as a gold digger.

This is objectively NOT true.

Trust me, if a 53 year-old man has a thing for/dates a 33 year-old woman, he's often seen as a CREEP.

Yes, there will always be some other men who "high-five" him, as Kwothe28 said, but those men are just fellow creeps.

Also, nobody actually sees a 33 year-old woman who dates a 53 year-old man as a "gold-digger", unless the guy is extraordinarily wealthy.

5 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I've felt like all people over about 50 can be age peers. 

Agreed.

Everyone over the age of 50 is just seen as varying degrees of "old", so a lot of people don't have as much issue with two old people getting together.

In fact, most people, including myself, think that it's sweet when two old people find each other, and are rooting for them!

So, I say, go for it!

On 5/8/2024 at 7:53 AM, pmw06092016 said:

He said he kept leaving things on tables when we were together with his Dob on hoping I’d see

LMAO, and you believed this?

Why would he bother going through the trouble of taking this convoluted, indirect route of letting you know his real age, as opposed to just telling you directly?

And why wasn't his nonsensical response a complete turn-off for you?

On 5/8/2024 at 7:53 AM, pmw06092016 said:

He said women his age have a lower energy in life than him and he likes women a bit younger.

Well, as long as you're in a relationship with him, you better not age.

I can't believe you decided to give him a second chance.

On 4/23/2024 at 5:01 PM, lecocole said:

I listened to this because he had me on call, and I was able to hear everything. I wanted proof, so I recorded the whole thing.

Wow, that's completely illegal.

It is NOT OKAY to record someone without their knowledge and consent.

And the fact that you were willing to commit this creepy, invasive, and ILLEGAL act just to hold onto some lowlife who treated you as nothing more than a "sidepiece"?

Yeah, you're right, your self-esteem is bottom-of-the-barrel LOW.

Hopefully you have deleted the recording, and will NEVER do something like that again.

1 hour ago, MikeB12 said:

I did read one post suggesting maybe trying to reconnect with her over coffee or something. Not to "explain myself" because I truly didn't do anything wrong. But maybe just as a low key type thing to try and reconnect? I suppose at this point it's probably worth a shot. 

Wow, you're NOT getting it.

This girl is NOT interested in you. It's a WRAP.

Don't become that creepy guy who can't take a hint.

3 hours ago, MikeB12 said:

I did notice that evening that she had a new profile on a different dating app, which I thought the timing of that seemed kind of odd, one day after a great date.

How did you "notice" this, especially so quickly after she put up the new profile?

Were you searching her name on different dating apps or something?

Also, it's really none of your business this early on if she has a new profile on another dating app.

She doesn't owe you anything.

3 hours ago, MikeB12 said:

Yes, maybe I initiated it but we kissed 4-5 times and she did not pull away or anything so I didn't think much of it. 

Maybe, since she already admitted that the kiss "caught her off-guard" and "threw her off", she just went along with it because she felt taken aback and pressured, in the moment.

Maybe she didn't have the courage, in the moment, to say "I don't typically kiss on the first date, and I'm not comfortable with this."

That's essentially what she ended up telling you on Tuesday evening, after she had some time to get her bearings and clear her head on how she really felt.

3 hours ago, MikeB12 said:

And I'm only saying this part for context, but I drove an hour to see her (accommodating her work schedule), paid for everything and bought her flowers AND the date itself was amazing (minus, apparently, the kiss lol).

You're NOT "only saying this part for context", you're 100% trying to insinuate that she "owes" you another date.

NO, SHE DOESN'T. She doesn't owe you ANYTHING.

You CHOSE to drive an hour to see her, you CHOSE to pay for everything, and you CHOSE to buy her flowers.

Doing all of those things doesn't mean that she is OBLIGATED to go on another date with you.

She is more than entitled to never see you again.

3 hours ago, MikeB12 said:

I feel like all things considered this would be a raw deal if she doesn't give me a second chance and again I didn't really do anything "wrong".

No, it wouldn't be a "raw deal", because AGAIN, she DOESN'T OWE YOU ANYTHING.

She doesn't owe you "a second chance".

1 hour ago, abbyyy said:

Lastly, I got frustrated today because I asked him to put away the groceries that I had just shopped for on my own and he kept asking me where everything should go because to him “I already knew” and it would be easier for me to tell him rather then for him to figure it out. 

This is called "weaponized incompetence".

Basically, it's a way to avoid having to contribute equally to household or child-rearing tasks, by suggesting that it would just be easier if the other person did it because "they're better at it" or "they're the one that usually does it".

It's also a deliberate way to frustrate you so much that you will eventually give up and stop asking him to help you out.

What redeeming qualities does this guy have? He sounds AWFUL.

Do you really want to have to mother a grown man?

9 hours ago, Alokinga said:

Then today, after some chatting I asked her out for next week and she asked if our friend could come, to which I said why not (even though it felt weird), but then she said "you two would make a good couple hahahah".

Yeah, this was her way of trying to "let you down gently".

A lot of women don't feel comfortable directly turning down a guy, so they will resort to more passive moves like inviting a friend as a "buffer", in order to make it CLEAR that you guys are "just friends".

No woman who was genuinely interested in a guy would ever say "You two would make a good couple!" about the guy and ANOTHER woman.

She said that as ANOTHER way of conveying to you that she is NOT interested in being more than friends.

9 hours ago, Alokinga said:

I haven't answered that last text because I'm beyond confused. I'm thinking about dropping this whole thing. There's absolutely no coherence in this series of events.

I would strongly recommend this.

And I would discourage you from "walking right through that", because "walking right through" women's boundaries and guardrails, that they have put in place for a REASON, isn't going to play out the way that you want it to.

If you DO decide to go, please don't be shocked or angry if she doesn't want to be more than friends.

And please respect any decision she makes.

4 hours ago, Armyguy368 said:

Last week the woman at work is having issues with her long-distance boyfriend, it's coming to a close due to the distance. I was NICE enough to listen to her and help her with her racing thoughts, to comfort her. She is the one who said I am sweet and yes, she is the one I am attracted to, but she likes another guy in the office.

You didn't do this because you're "nice", you did it because you're that guy who's waiting in the wings, hoping to have a chance with her, even though she has made it clear that she is NOT interested in you.

That is NOT being "nice".

Also, women are not obligated to be interested in you simply because you're a "nice guy".

That's something that you should be, REGARDLESS if it attracts women or not.

44 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

So he dated his first choice and when that didn't pan out he circled back to you.  So yeah, he will likely do the same thing as soon as he meets someone else.

Nope.  I'd hold out for someone who regards ME as his first choice, not as a fallback option.

This.

I can't believe he had the audacity to admit to you that you were essentially his "Fallback Girl".

I wouldn't even consider going out on a date with him.

@Radiant41, no, you are NOT leading him on whatsoever.

He's just refusing to take "No" for an answer, and trying to "wear you down", as so many creepy, entitled men try to do.

2 hours ago, Andrina said:

In the end, after more unwanted attention and trying to be nice but reiterating what I'd previously said, I had to get mean to finally stop his behavior.

And this is EXACTLY why I have no regrets or remorse over "getting mean" with men who REFUSE to politely "take the hint" and BACK OFF.

Unfortunately, it's often the only way to get them to leave you alone.

I'm really sorry that you're going through this. I hate hearing about men who make women feel uncomfortable, especially at their place of work.

4 hours ago, Lambert said:

It's such a turn off to have to keep explaining something that is so incredibly obvious.

This.

You shouldn't have to explain basic decency, loyalty, and respect to him like a CHILD.

4 hours ago, Lambert said:

Or he's an immature little boy that enjoys making you feel insecure to make himself feel secure.

I suspect that THIS is the reason behind his behaviour.

@JosieC, please break up with this guy as soon as possible, and find a guy who would never dream of acting in such a creepy, immature, and disrespectful way.

2 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

He also texted me something along the lines of "I am happy and proud to be an honest and trustworthy person"

Oh, EW.

SHOW, don't TELL.

Something in the milk isn't clean with ANY guy who feels the need to BRAG about having qualities that are associated with being a "good person". 

You seem to have a really good head on your shoulders, and I think that you should continue to follow your gut instinct.

Also, I agree 100% with Catfeeder's post: You do NOT need to justify your lack of interest in this guy to a bunch of strangers on an internet forum.

On 12/27/2023 at 10:53 AM, smackie9 said:

When a guy boasts about being a nice guy etc. That's a real bad sign. That's not being picky, that's protecting yourself from a jacka$$. 

Agreed, I NEVER trust a guy who feels the need to announce that they're a "good guy", or that they're "kind, humble, and empathetic".

If they were actually ANY of those things, they would SHOW it through their ACTIONS.

And they would also have the self-awareness to realize that BRAGGING about being "good" or "kind" is the exact opposite of ACTUALLY being "good" or "kind".

@Shycarrot, I would be very careful if I were you. ❤️

1 hour ago, Jaunty said:

You lost me already right here.

1)  You spent time with them as a couple

2) You CHOSE to keep  going when you "started to develop feelings"

3) You CHOSE to continue into "more flirtatious" behavior 

And ... then you confronted her about "it"?  About what?  You were making your own choices every step of the way.

I did read the rest of your post.  None of those details change the story.  You were a full participant with your eyes wide open from the start. 

I do feel sorry that you are hurting but please, just look at your own choices, the role you played, and learn.

Her cheating, messy relationship etc. are out of your lane now.

Keep moving forward in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION of this woman and whatever part of you decided to deliberately initiate a relationship with her.

I agree with this entire post 100%.

I don't feel sorry for you. You are not the victim here.

@niceknowingyou45, I just wanted to make a few, very important points that I think you really need to hear.

• You are NOT obligated to put up with a disrespectful, CONTROLLING, emotionally manipulative Mother-In-Law just because OTHER PEOPLE were forced to put up with horrible in-laws because their spouses REFUSED TO STAND UP FOR THEM.

I, personally, would never stay in a relationship with someone who refused to CONSISTENTLY stand up for me to their disrespectful parents, or refused to draw strict boundaries in order to protect me from emotional abuse.

It's great if your fiancé IS standing up for you, but please make sure that he continues to do so EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. Yes, you ARE entitled to that. Yes, that is the BARE MINIMUM.

• Your future Mother-In-Law is the one who is CONTROLLING, not you.

If she insinuates that you're controlling, then she is projecting her behaviour onto you.

• Your future Mother-in-Law absolutely owes you an apology for her behaviour. RESPECT GOES BOTH WAYS. She is JUST as obligated to be respectful towards you as you are towards her.

Don't let people try to convince you to abide by double standards.

• Your fiancé needs to nip this behaviour in the bud as soon as possible, or else your future Mother-In-Law will continue to try to find a million ways, throughout your lives, to control, emotionally abuse, and manipulate the both of you.

Make no mistake, this is who she is.

• Be wary of anyone who tries too hard to defend your future Mother-In-Law's behaviour.

Normally, people will defend behaviour that they would either engage in themselves, or don't see a problem with. Keep that in mind.

I really hope that you don't feel ganged up on or brow-beaten by posting your issue on this forum.

Please take good care of yourself, sis. ❤️

23 minutes ago, niceknowingyou45 said:

I disagree that this isn't all my FMIL.  My fiance is the one willing to set healthy boundaries and his mom is the one who is trying to manipulate the narrative by calling me controlling which is a big form of gas lighting.  Yes the tracking and the bank account may have been acceptable and fine when he was younger but he is now about to be a married man of course the dynamic between him and his mother is going to shift a little bit.  I never said they couldn't talk to each other or spend time together alone but yes the dynamic will shift and that's perfectly natural and healthy.  A healthy loving mother will want her son to eventually grow up and live his life and not need her in the same way when he was 5 as he will when he is 10 15, 20 etc.  Think about it when you are a toddler your mom bathes you, correct?  But if your mom (not referring to a special needs person here) was still bathing you at 15 we can all agree that would be completely inappropriate, right?  It doesn't mean you love your mother any less at 15 then you did at 5 just that you are getting older and the relationship between you and your mother is going to change.  

 

Her son is about to be married and the apron strings need to be cut.  The bank account was fine when he was younger and single but now he is moving on to the next chapter of his life and about to be a married man of course it's perfectly natural and healthy to be sharing that now with your wife as opposed to your mother.  He isn't looking to marry and start a life with his mother but he is with his wife.  No reason his mom needs to have access to his money 24/7.  In laws and money is something that should never mix.  Isn't it better to set boundaries and nip this all in the bud now then wait until after the "I dos" are said and then try and fix it??

These are all completely normal and natural boundaries to have.  I am not saying he can't spend time with or have a relationship with his mom.

 

The fact that his mom instead of appreciating that her son is marrying someone great and that he is happy and healthy and moving forward with his life and congratulating him and being understanding is trying to deflect by labeling me controlling speaks volumes.

 

Sure she was always polite and kind to me but now that someone tells her one thing she doesn't want to hear all of a sudden after all these years I am "controlling."  That speaks volumes to what is to come in our relationship.  It doesn't look good.  It's easy to be polite when everyone is adhering to your narrative and going along with how you are doing things because no one is wanting to rock the boat and they want to tiptoe around you.

If he is going to come to me and say he has some things he has to work out with his mom I think I am owed transparency on what that is being this is my future husband.  If this affects my husband's life than by proxy it will affect me too and I can be pulled into his mother's unhealthy dynamic.

But I agree with you in that putting my best foot forward in regards to my relationship with my MIL is best. I will continue to remain kind to her of course but I am not going to engage with her in the same way as before at least not now.  I need to respect my own needs and boundaries as well and for right now that's not wasting my time and energy on people who trash me behind my back.  I did tell my fiance that I feel his mother owes me a sincere apology for very rudely telling my fiance right in front of me she was only expecting him and then calling me names behind my back.  That's not cool at all!  I have never once called my FMIL names to my fiance and I still wouldn't because I respect that's his mother but it cuts both ways his mother also needs to show respect for me as her son's wife to be and her son's relationship as well.

 

Quite frankly my fiance can engage with her as much as he wants but I don't really care to until I get an apology and I think that's showing respect to myself and my own personal boundaries.

This entire comment is *Chef's kiss*. Beautiful!

I don't even know you, but I am so damn proud of you.

I LOVE seeing a woman who refuses to let herself be gas-lit, guilt-tripped, or manipulated by someone who is OBVIOUSLY IN THE WRONG.

Stay strong in your convictions and principles.

Also, your future mother-in-law sounds SO creepy and manipulative! "I don't see why I should be kicked off of my son's bank account just because he's getting married! Why are you shutting me out like this?!"

Are you kidding me?! Yuck. You deserve so much better. ❤️

3 hours ago, Alex39 said:

I want to make clear. I didn't delete previous threads. Enotalone took them down. 

Why did ENA take down multiple threads of yours, Alex?

And please don't pretend that you "don't know why". There's no way that you would have quietly sat back and let ENA take down multiple threads of yours without reaching out to them and questioning WHY they were doing that.

Also, you DID go back and hide a bunch of individual posts of yours on one of your threads.

Do you think that's respectful to the people who take time and energy out of their day to try and give you helpful advice?

20 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

She is who she is because she gets away with it and it works for her.   This is what spoiled, entitled people do. They say whatever they want because they can.  There are never any punishments nor harsh consequences so they continue doing what they know best which is be their rude selves.  Should MIL be confronted to explain herself, you'll hear nothing but gaslighting.  (Deflecting, changing the subject so you're perceived as crazy, there's something wrong with YOU, not they, twisting your words, distorting the issue and the same old trickery ad nauseum.) 

You'll hear lines such as these:  I was joking!  You're dramatic!  You're too sensitive.  I wasn't serious.  What is wrong with YOU?  You took it the wrong way. 

This is so spot-on. Thank you, Cherylyn. ❤️

"You're too sensitive" is code for "How dare you call me out on the way that I'm mistreating you?!"

Also, this woman had a TRACKER on her adult son?!

Run for your life, sis. It's not going to get better.

Horrifying.

21 hours ago, SherrySher said:

What?! Why the heck not??

Men's needs are not more important than women's!

50/50....or nothing.

EXACTLY.

All that needs to be said.

5 hours ago, Sally .C. said:

I just meant that they don't need to keep score.

Please don't start with this.

50/50 is BASIC EQUALITY. It is NOT "keeping score" to expect things to be 50/50.

It is the BARE MINIMUM of what a woman should expect in a relationship.

@Shy1-01, I'm sorry that you're in a relationship with a hypocrite who believes in double standards.

You don't need to settle for someone like that.

There are PLENTY of men who enjoy going down on women, or, at the very least, understand that things need to be 50/50 RECIPROCAL.

2 hours ago, Eleanorrr said:

And I know some people would say ‘it’s just some pictures get over it’

Anyone who says that is a scumbag.

I've noticed that there's a new, insidious mentality towards women who aren't comfortable with their boyfriends/husbands liking pictures of random women on Social Media - both men AND women will try to guilt-trip them into believing that they're being "high-maintenance" or "controlling".

Some men do this because they engage in that behaviour themselves, and they want it to be normalized as acceptable.

Some women do this because they want to be seen as "low-maintenance" and "a cool girl who's not like the other girls", which is embarrassing.

You have every right to be disgusted by his behaviour, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

2 hours ago, Eleanorrr said:

And you might think ‘oh well he didn’t physically cheat’ I know this. It’s about the fact he was happy to watch me suffer and be so hurt by his actions over and over again for such a prolonged amount of time

2 hours ago, Eleanorrr said:

He didn’t care that he was liking peoples pictures or how it was upsetting me. The argument would always end and there would never be a resolution. I would leave the argument feeling defeated and like he wouldn’t listen or understand where I was coming from at all. He didn’t want to understand how it was making me feel.

And this is EXACTLY why you need to leave him.

Because you've already TRIED to talk to him REPEATEDLY about how his actions made you feel, and you left every conversation feeling defeated and miserable.

Because he doesn't actually care. He doesn't feel ANY remorse for his actions, and he's not going to stop.

The only way to get back to your "happy, carefree" self is to take this trash to the curb. You'll feel so much happier, lighter, and more carefree once you do, I promise.

Just now, Seraphim said:

There is agreeing to disagree correct? You don’t think she should have to compromise or be a team player or anything else.

This is NOT what I said. Please don't try to put words in my mouth.

I specifically asked why SHE was the only person in the marriage who is expected to compromise or be a "team player", and you refused to answer.

I specifically asked why being a "team player" involves HER doing the majority of the work.

I specifically asked what her husband is doing, beyond working a full-time job, that is contributing to the team, since she is ALSO working a full-time job AND taking care of the housework.

In fact, from your complete lack of response, it seems that YOU don't think that the HUSBAND should have to compromise or be a team player.

So, I get it now. The wife is expected to give her all to the TEAM, but the husband is not.

And since I can see that you're not interested in having a good-faith discussion about this, I will leave this thread.

I'm sorry, @cuddlebunny777, I tried.

I DO hope that you get that annulment, because, as was stated earlier in the thread, marriage should be about "partnership", NOT "servitude".

1 minute ago, Seraphim said:

Sorry. Had to head out my nightly walk I didn’t have the time to tied to a device . Having my health condition requires me to be active . 

Wow.

Okay, well, at least I can know that I tried to discuss this with you in good faith, and you chose to respond...like this.

I kept my side of the street clean.

12 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Sometimes that is being a team player because the spouse has to do other work.  Like my husband -took care of his aging parents who lived 800 miles away (only child!), studied for his advanced degree, traveled a ton for business, worked more than full time at his job, etc. He also did all our taxes/related financial stuff and he as the only driver took care of all car related stuff. Housework is only one component. 

This is a valid point.

I'm curious what @cuddlebunny777's husband does, beyond working full-time, that contributes to the "team".

Because, as it stands, it sounds like she ALSO works full-time and takes care of the housework. So, what else does HE do, that would warrant her being in charge of the housework component?