german_for_a_whales

i suggest not talking to him, at all. that will work better than anything else. not a word. dont pick up the phone, dont call him, dont text, if you go online, dont talk to him on there. dont say anything. abandoning people seems to be the only way to make them recognize what theyre losing. when my ex and i broke up the first time, i told her to "get out and not talk to me." later that night she wrote me a tearful email that she loved me SOOOOOOO much. a month later of kissing her *CENSORED* *CENSORED* *CENSORED* she was gone again. i still love her, but i think you have to ignore them for them to see what theyre missing. thats the only thing that works.

its been eight months

i didnt know that a alternative term for "butts" was censorable. excuse me for that, now i will have a cigarette to decompress from that post

So, the score looks like she's leading 100-0, and you guys may be right. For her it looked like it was the easiest thing in the world to walk away from me after not seeing me for six months... it feels like human emotion can sometimes be so fickle. And for me, since I've known her since my earliest memories, this is so hard. For years we were best friends, and I there are ways in which we are close that you guys wouldn't really understand if i told you. Every year, Hannukah, Passover, Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, Christmas, Thanksgiving.... since we were children. Our respective parents went through really difficult divorces at the same time, so we were each others' help through that. Her freshman year of high school, I was like her big brother, advice, take her to school, soccer, work, everything... guys would come approach me for how to handle her, what to do when they were in my situation, but they had only dated each other for a few weeks or so, and would obsess over her for months. My freshman year of college she would come down and visit me because she missed me, would bring me candy and stuff because she knew the dorm food was terrible. She was only 16 and all my roommates, classmates etc would ask for her phone number, "ask if they could hit that" when I would take her around school. I felt so protective. I would introduce her as "this is s, shes kind of like my little sister," and she would always be so upset over me saying that...why? because she had a crush on me since freshman year of high school, but knew we were too far apart. That summer I got a job near her house, so... why not live in the guest room? That seemed perfectly logical to everyone involved. I had no idea, I had been dating this other girl, she was dating this guy who was older than ME (more on this in a sec), and it was not like anything was going to happen between us anyway. the LAST thing on my mind. But somehow, she made me fall in love with her over that summer... it took 3 months. She broke up with her boyfriend of three weeks, who would proceed to follow her around FOR A YEAR. They only kissed one time. He would come by, leave little notes on her car, leave phone messages, one time he even followed us 150 miles to a soccer tournament, wearing this big bright yellow sweatshirt so we could see him, and he never came over and said a word. He tried to position himself between us and the exit so we would be forced to talk to him, so we went and played one on one for half an hour (shes an all league player, i never played soccer, so guess who got their *mod edit* kicked. i swim, i have flippers). And he followed us all the way home... thats how i figured out how NOT to act. this was two years ago, now... Anyways, all summer long, it was her and me. She didnt have a car yet, and fortunately we worked right accross the street from each other. everyday for lunch i would go over there and we would talk and she would give me free sandwhiches. afterwards wed go to the beach, she can surf and i never could, so i would swim out there past the breakers with her and body surf when i could. I started noticing at home that she would spend a lot of time in my room, try to get me to go do stuff with her and her friends... no way, i was 19, they were 16. So one week, we were at a restaurant, and i had had this huge crush on the hostess for a long time, she goes to Cal now (ironically, we dated after ex and i broke up). I made a bet with her that I could go out with the hostess before she could go out with the bus boy, who she thought was cute. It was on. What I didnt know is that it kick started her little "I may lose him" in her mind. The next week she went to montana, with my brothers and dad and her family (thats how close we are). We didn't call each other, but man I missed her so much all week, and I didn't know why, it was bizarre. When she came back, she had brought me a present, a hat that looked like a bear. it was funny. she had a friend who had a crush on her come over, and he kept hitting on her all night while i sat accross the couch from them and watched tv. finally, she had him go. she then told me shed never been on the pier, which is pretty far away (it was 830) and kinda scary. I was like "you want to go right now?" and she said "yeah, you'll protect me anyway silly." so we went. She wore this terribly small skirt and a sweatshirt, and every guy out there stared at her the whole time. I was fantastically angry, and kept walking close to her so I could pretend like I was her boyfriend so they would stop. we went all the way out to the end, and stood there for a while, talked about how sad it was that i was going to school soon. anyways, long story short, we went home, she asked for a massage, i felt SO awkward giving her one, we went in the jacuzzi, she opened me a beer with her teeth (bottle, she has vampirish canines). And then we laid on the couch and talked for awhile, right next to each other, for hours. So long that we fell asleep. I woke up, she was staring right at me, I was freaked out! and then we kissed, I have no idea why i did it. i was looking at her, and i started on her cheek. then she turned her head and wrapped her arms around my neck and it was on. we actually got completely naked the first night and almost had sex but we were both virgins so we really had no idea what to do. it was complete craziness, not a word, but a lot of laughing because it felt like it had taken so long for this to happen but it felt so right. we went to sleep back in our rooms. The next week school was starting, so i was getting ready to move out. and she cried and cried because she thought that meant my heart was going too. and at the time, i for sure thought so. My dad had caught us kissing on my car in my driveway, and told me not to see her anymore because i was too old and she was too young and when we wanted to escalate, which he knew we both would, it would be illegal, so i listened to him. no way was i dating a junior in high school my second year of college. and when i did come back to her about a month later, i sat at her computer and found an instant message conversation open that she had with her friend. it was how she was so scared that we would never be the same, because i wasnt a crush, i was her best friend, and she knew in her heart she loved me, since she was three. about how she would not be able to find that kind of companionship with anyone. about how she felt she could never have me back. I came back again when she had been begging me to see her for a few weeks. her mom was out of town. we sat down at her table, and she had written me the sweetest card. i was still set on not seeing her. but, i made it a point to listen. when she told me how she felt... i melted. that night, we went to her room, and we had our first time together... quite a painful memory in some aspects now, but also beautiful. the next morning i woke up in her bed at 630. she looked at me with such a big smile on her face. i had to go to work by 7, so i got out of there... this is how we got back together. With life the way it is now, sometimes it feels like my whole life has been a lie. But that can't be true. There was so much good there. and i know people who have been broken up for years who still talk to me about getting back together with the other, after all this time at college (they broke up after high school, badly, and the girl who did it still wants him someday). In every relationship I know of where the person broke up with the other right before they go to college, regardless of how they did it, that person always someday wants that person back, no matter what they say. One of her favorite movies is Love and Basketball, and I don't know if you guys know how that movie goes, check it out if you want to see a wonderful friendship that turned into a relationship that was ruined by the stress of college. And last night when she told me all that, I didn't cry. I didn't feel depressed like some of you guys say you do when you talk to an ex. I felt strong because I know that after all this time, I can look her in the eye and not be afraid. And that if I could just know what she wanted, if I could know what her reason for breaking up with me was (if passion flares out, that doesn't mean it will NEVER come back, I've seen it burn so low but eventually return with people. my best friends dated each other so many times they have lost count of how many times they broke up with each other.) And she KNOWS right now i will ALWAYS be in her life, however she wants me. So how do I put fear in her that she might not always have me, where she can flick her hand and have me back on a whim? how can i return respect where there may not be any, how can i put mystery where its impossible for me to do so. her mom and my dad are great friends too, so for example when she wrote me my birthday card, even though she hadnt talked to me for two months, she knew everything i was doing and my grades at cambridge and what i needed to do for LSATs. for her, my whole life is in her easy grasp. and she only wants what she cant have at this point. once she told me in a letter she was tired of playing games with boys, how she used to, and with me, she wanted someone who loved her for her faults, not got mad at them, loved spending time with her for who she was, not worried about someone else, and didnt run away from her because she KNOWS my greatest fear is that she would abandon me, and that now my life feels like a void that will continue to the end of my life. And while most of you have found someone who was at one point a friend of a friend, or a person you asked out for coffee sometime, that blossomed fortunately into a full, loving relationship (i'm glad for you, not being sarcastic), when i look at mine, it was SO much more before even that first spark that I cannot just do "NC NC NC" because its obvious what im doing, or anything because im under her thumb, right where if the world takes a turn for the worse she can have me with a look of her eyes, and tear me to shreds with a turn of her head. i dont know if anyone in here is a game theorist or economics major, or if anyone paid attention to the Nobel Prizes this year. i might have related this idea in an earlier post, but when i was at school this summer, my professor related this idea in a class. When you want to bargain for something, the best idea is to make it look like to the other party that you can walk away from the table without getting exactly what you want. in fact, your best bargaining strategy is to make the other side think that you are crazy, so that they're afraid of you. and when people have to use such strong terms when they say something, its more that so they themselves can believe it. "Confidence does not boast." if she were SO confident she would never date me again, she wouldn't have to say NEVER in big block capital letters, or say "100%, absolutely positive." That's like me saying I'm 100%, absolutely positive that I'll always be in love with her. And we all know as humans how sometimes we look at the short run and feel "how i feel right now is how I will always feel," and that is almost never true. So no, that's my long winded and overly wordy way of saying that this one, i cant give up. There are pictures of her around my house from trips our families have taken to new york, montana, oregon, catalina island, birthday parties when we were kids, our parents meeting each other in med school, videos of us at each others birthday parties, pictures of me throughout her house (except not in her room anymore), and a video of me hitting her on the head with a bat when she was six. another time on a ski trip i made up a poem that made fun of her throughout, and recited it right into the camera when we were about 7 and 5. she ran away and cried, but later we were on the bunny slopes together. then, did i know 13 years later that instead of cleaning each others skis on the lifts that we'd be instead kissing through scarf covered mouths, talking about how silly kissing seems when you just do the action? or that instead of hitting her with a wiffle bat on the head and making her run to her daddy and cry, id be holding her while she cried because she thought her father didn't love her because he left her and her mom. or instead of writing poems about how she is a fry cannot fly (name alliteration), i would write her "the most beautiful letter anyone has ever given me" the day i knew i had to walk away. So no, everybody, you can say its young love, but its long and life defining love. and theres even so much more than that, and I know she knows that whatever she has now does not even compare. its almost like shes afraid of dating me because shes afraid she'll miss just getting to screw around with people she doesnt love, because she never got to do that. theres a wedding i need to go to today, so now i should get going. Hopefully now you realize why after almost a year i havent given up, and i may never, you look someone in the eye and tell them to forget that. when my friends heard we were dating, they said "oh man this is like a soap opera," because they never thought her and i would. and she always compared us to the book "Atonement," i bet some of you have read that too. a real love never dies, and right now im not competing with any other man, im competing with where her life is going. other guys are just to fill the hole in her that she will never admit must be enormous, if i feel this way there is NO way she feels nothing at all. last night, i showed her a picture of us at thanksgiving when i was nine (and really fat), and asked if she remembered me like that. she said "yes, but you turned out nice." as she left, i said "oh, by the way, you look great." she turned and smiled and said "you look wonderful too."

i dont understand why some people get 30 replies and i get 8 from myself and one from someone else

Alright- so we were both there. She came with her mom and sister, showed up quite fashionably late. Wore a gorgeous cocktail dress (Way over dressed), made it a point not to find out where I was. I spent a LOT of time getting ready too (nice polo shirt, good jeans, jacket, did my hair up etc.) sat outside with my uncle, we talked it over, smoked a cigar, said "hey, you know what, she shouldnt have that much power over you, just go talk to her." so, i did. went into where she was hanging out with mom and sis, we joked around a bit, but she found it hard to look at me whole time. later i said "can we talk?" she said no at first... but then we just sat at a table and did talk a while about stuff. was pretty nice, she smiled a bit, it was great to see her. she told me how she figured out i sent the flowers (she figured out the first name was zachary-figured it couldn't be me, then asked the florist if the area code was mine if they couldnt give everything away-that got it figured out). she's doing a lot of cool stuff it seems, volunteering at an animal shelter and working at a battered women's help line, im really proud of her. her parents wont let her get a job so she said she would volunteer (to feel productive), and they pay her a little extra. i guess shes got a little bit of money or something. so i told her i had a present for her, which i didnt mean to give her unless i thought it was going well. i did, and so i gave her a corona bottle filled with sand from her favorite beach. she really liked it. I asked if i could ask her a "serious" question, and she said ok. So i asked, "why didnt you call." she told me she figured not contacting me was good so i could just get over it. grr. I said "since you can see right through me anyway, im going to ask this," she said of course i can. i asked her how she feels, and she said the same. so i said asked "do you still never want to date me again, and she said yes, 100% sure-why?-because im just not attracted to you anymore, a legitimate one i suppose, but i find silly reason. anyways, she gave me a hug, said it was nice to see me, and then she went out to the car. it was pretty weird to see her treat me so coldly though, like she wasnt that excited to see me after a whole half year... but at least i didnt call. i sent her a text message afterwards saying it was nice to see her, she texted back "it was nice to see you too zack." thats it. im going to go with... she doesnt like me. so... at least it wasnt mean or angry. i wonder if this is where i disappear. suggestions?

so i know for a FACT i will be seeing her at dinner tomorrow... suggestions?

does anyone else think thats a good idea? its just other than through letters and the internet, we have barely talked since july, and the last time i called her she didn't want to talk to me. i feel like it would be a better idea for me to make her wait, to see if its worth trying. the agony of a few days with no phone call would be better than pushing her away further by calling undesirably.

could someone please help me out? thanks, just opinions, thats all. i can explain more too if youd like

oh, and one more thing about the card she wrote me... she said "I know you've been having trouble with family lately, and just keep in mind what you want and how to strategize such that you'll get it...seriously, survival of the fittest man!" she knows what I want, and that I want her more than anything else in the world. i used to say that quite often. does anyone else think this is a veiled reference to that? just wondering.

so i dont have to ask later, could someone please give me a tip as to how to get some advice? thanks

do i need to leave promises for payment or something upon delivery of advice?

alright, rapidly approaching the date... any suggestions?

never mind, i guess she was out... man sometimes i feel so hopeless but then i change my mind to keep trying... i wonder if thats counterproductive in terms of the rest of my life

her mom just called, told me to come take care of the neighbors dog.... i know shes in town, damn what do i do!