onelove777

Hi Ocean - Thanks much for your constructive post - I really appreciate it - you bring up several good points - you're right, one thing that sucks is that the life I had with my wife before my affair is gone - I may be being foolishly optimistic, but I'm hopeful that IF we can work it out, that it will be better. Having read quite a bit about affairs and stuff, they usually suggest that an affair is symptomatic of a greater problem or problems that are not being properly addressed. Looking back, I think that there may be some truth to this - there's plenty of stuff that I could have done better as a husband - (I'm not referring to the obvious mistake of the affair, but lots of little things - dirty dishes in the sink stuff - but those things can add up) - IF we can indeed work through this, then we will have to deal with those things head on as well. If we can do that, our relationship might be able to thrive. We do share two amazing, beautiful children, we do have a very very special connection, and we certainly have many, many wonderful, precious memories. I may be a fool to even try, but it seems better to try to make right too late than to not even try at all. Crazier things have happened. I am willing to do the work - all the work - I would be honored to have an opportunity to do the work - it is worth it to me - and you're right, action is all that will mean anything. The thing that stinks is that I'm not always sure WHAT actions would really help. Just being a good person, a good father, a good provider ...that's all I really know to do. Pretty simple crap that I did for seven years, and should have still been doing for the last couple. As far as your very legitimate question about how do I know that this won't happen again? ...well obviously, I don't know what will happen in the future ...but I can tell you this - I will NOT be making the same stupid mistakes again!!! I have learned a LOT in all of this - I have been through absolute hell for a couple years now (I should probably say I have put myself (and many others) through hell) ...and I have ABSOLUTELY NO interest in reliving this experience, or anything remotely similar to it, ever again. It damn sure was not worth it! I have lost everything that I love, and everything that has any value to me. I would rather lose my arms and legs, my eyesight and hearing than lose the things that I have lost in this. I should have thought that stuff through before, but unfortunately I didn't. When I think of the joy that I used to feel when my little guy (my son) would run into our bedroom in the morning and jump up on my chest as she and I were laying in bed ...having a nice family breakfast together ...the times when we would lay in bed and read our kids bedtime stories ...THAT is what happiness is ...I look at sweet little pictures of my wife and I ...I had everything ...I was the luckiest man in the universe ... I just blew it ...I guess I just took it for granted, I don't know ...it sucks ...so ...i can't say it won't happen again ...BUT ...IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN! I CAN say that i hope someone shoots me in the head if I ever, ever, ever THOUGHT of doing such a stupid flipping thing ever again! I feel VERY confident that it won't. I think I mentioned in a previous post, I had had lots of opportunity in the past to stray, being on the road in a band and stuff, but it was never even a consideration. I don't know what happened this time. But it damn sure won't happen again. I'm very unhappy in my life right now, and it's all because of my own actions. I won't make the same mistakes again. Anyway - I gotta go to bed. Thanks much for your input - Ms. Toots, I have some stuff I'd like to share with you, but I'm falling alseep! Forgive me, I'll write when I can. Thanks to all of you guys - Happy New Year.

hi - um ...I'm in kind of a bad place tonight, so please forgive me for not addressing all the things I want to address in this post, or for not being completely articulate this evening - Ms. Toots - you made me cry - I cried when I read your post - a basically positive cry - THANK YOU VERY MUCH for trying to be constructive - not everyone is constructive in thier responses ...it seems that a lot of folks just want to tell me that I'm a crap-ball and that I messed up really, really badly- no kidding ... i know that ...i have already figured that out a thousand times, and have had it reinforced a hundred times every day of my life since then, so ...I knew that I am a P.O.S. cuz of all this, and I think I have expressed that very openly - if I have not effectively done so, please let me do so now - I am horrified by my own behavior - I can't even believe that my life is like this these days - my world seemed so much different a few years ago - I have theories about why this whole thing has happened - OF COURSE none of my theories or anything else excuze what I have I have finally seen how badly i have effed up, and now I am trying to rebuild and just be positive, to embrace the things that are valuable to me, to to lift them up and SHOW them some respect, some value, and treat them like they should have been treated all along. Even if they don't respect me back - respect is circular - I show you respect, you show me respect - but it's got to start somewhere - I have lost it all, so I've got to start from ground zero, and I've got to put the first brick into place - I feel like I've got to extend respect unconditionally, and hope that in the process i might build some positive experiences, and eventually earn some respect of my own. I KNOW that I should have been doing this all along ...I would give anything to do it over again ...Please let me say to each of you readers, to my wife, to my children, to my family, to my God, to my friends, to everyone that has been touched by this whole horrible situation that I am sorry. I am very sorry for my actions - they were indescribably horrible, irresponsible, inconsiderate, selfish, stupid, idiotic ...I could go on for hours ...anyway ...I mean ...I know I am a P.O.S. - I am completely appalled at my own behavior - I am a dirtball - I have fallen on my knees repeatedly, often balling my eyes out, and begged my wife for forgiveness - I have confessed my sins to God, to my wife, to her family, and I am in the process of trying to make amends with anyone and everyone that may have been touched by this situation ...but I am at least conscious enough to THINK that I am finally clearly seeing the whole thing - no ifs, ands, or buts - I was a jerk - period - bless you, Ms. Toots - bless you for having hope - that is all I am living on right now - heck, give me your guy's number, I'll call his backside up ...I'll tear him a new one - in a positive way - I would give both my arms and legs for an opportunity like you have expressed that you'd be willing to give him. I'll be happy to talk with you before hand if you want ...I am totally serious, let me know if i can help ...as for me, I am in a mode where i am completely making a fool of myself in many ways, I am opening myself up completely to total vulnerability, to getting rejected over and over and over again - to doors virtually slammed in my face, phone calls not answered, etc - I am calling her with kind messages daily, no matter what the response - I write her letters (both postal and e-mial) about things that I think about or things that happen to me during the day - just like the things we would have used to have talked about when I called her at my lunchbreak backin the day or whatever - and whenever she brings me some news that is not positive, which is pretty often, usually about our babies or money, I just take what she says, I say it's okay, I let her know that I am disappointed (if appropriate (which is often)) but always make sure that I just say that it's cool, and that if that's what makes her happy, then I want that for her ... I'll work with it, I don't argue, and I go with it - I am writing kind letters daily with happy, positive thoughts about possibilities for the future and about our babies ...I daggone sure don't want to be a doormat for her, and will not be that, but I feel like I owe her some sort of ...I dunno ...I've done my time being arrogant and proud ...i feel i need to contribute some balance to that ... she deserves my respect - I have not given her that - I guess I'm just trying to give her something back - Ms. Toots, if i can give you any advice, I would say that I read this book by Michele Weiner Davis called "the Divorce Remedy" that was pretty good - I found it at my local library after I had bought it - I think the two biggest things I have taken from that book - THUS FAR - is this ...it's hard to be upset with someone who agrees with you all the time - (thus part of the reason you guys fell in love in the first place) - so if you agree as much as you possibly can - your relationship will improve - that has indeed proven to be the case with me - so if you just attempt to provide a friction-free groundwork upon which to build, then you can branch out from there - at least you can 'not argue', and then think in those terms ...basically, one of the biggest things that's gotten me is just to take a huge step back and look at the big picture - to think about my life after I'm gone ...when I'm facing my heavenly father - when I'm reading what is on my tombstone ...when I'm laying in my hospital bed during my final hours telling my son about my life - any final disclusures I may have never had the courage to disclose to him before ...and just finally looking at what is REALLY important to me ... anyway, I'm not done with my rant, but i am exhausted, so i must stop for now ... as far as me being in a place to try to salvage my relationship with my wife once 'the other woman' exited the picture - I'm afraid you aren't understanding - (not you, toots, the other person...i can't get back to that screen now to find out thier name, but anyway...) i feel tht that was simply a catylist - something to slap me around from my intoxicated place to looking at where I truly am...to look at what is truly important to me, to forget my blissed-out glow for a moment and see my REAL LIFE, and what REALLY makes a difference in reality- I have begged my wife to reunite with me - for our children's sake even, if not for me or us ...and yes, I have even used the children as a 'weapon' to try to win her back...i believe that it's the truth, and so does my wife, deep down in her heart, from the things she has said to me (but the details of that will have to wait for another day...) -but I also know that 'convincing' anyone to be with you is not good ...either they want to be with you or they don't ...anyway, I gotta go to bed ...toots, I'd like to talk to you more ...if i can help you in some tiny way, then maybe this whole fricked up thing might make some sense, in some way and who knows? James 4:14 'You do not know what will happen tomorrow' God bless you ...nite nite ...

Hey ya'll - I only have a sec, so please pardon my brevity - I was just really wanting to reply at least a bit - thanks for writing, you guys - toots, you said quite a few interesting things - I may have to reply to most of that when i have more time - I appreciate your input - lots of good food for thought - and constructive too (i think ...mostly ... - as far as Cynder's questions - yes, I'm seeing a couple different therapists right now - and looking into getting additional couseling as well - I need it! I've been trying to get my flipping head on straight since I met this woman! Why did the relationship last for 2 years after my disclosure of it to my wife? That's a damn good question. I lost my flipping mind. I can't explain it. I lost my ever loving mind. It was like I wasn't at the steering wheel there, you know? (no, i guess you probably don't know!) I would do anything to take all of it back, and do it all over again differently - you have no idea - my heart is broken, and I'm the one who broke it - I do love my wife - I did then and I do now - like you just don't know - and I know that seems unfathomable - I'm not in ANY SMALL WAY defending what I did, because it was despicable, unforgivable, and easily the greatest regret of my life - I hate what I did, and I hate myself for doing it - BUT as Mr Mike may attest, there's just no way to try to explain it to someone who has not experienced it themselves - and I have talked to a number of people - gentlemen as well as ladies, and anyone from pastors to crackheads (literally!) - who have experienced it as well - It really was like a heroin addiction, or a fricking terrible magic spell or something. it's not about will power - in fact, I was a musician on the road for 5 years when I was first married to my wife - to be perfectly honest, there were almost always females throwing themselves at me in that environment - and it was never once an issue - I never took any of them up on it, and never even felt tempted in my deepest of hearts - it wasn't something I had to fight. I just wasn't interested. And there were certainly interesting, appealing possibilities. Just not for me. And then I met this woman at church. Sheesh. I beg God every day to help me understand why all of this has happened. There was just something about that relationship ...or maybe it was where I was in my life then, or just ... I don't know - I have theories, but I'll have to post them later ... and you ask why did it go on for so long? I tried to end it MANY times - in no uncertain terms, no contact, nothing - but then some weird set of circumstances would line up and there we'd be, face to face ...some totally random things would happen to put us in the same place at the same time - and then ... Anyway, I really gotta go, but real quick - toots, you recommended that I defer to my wife - regard her wishes - I agree completely - I am doing exactly that - (or at least trying to) - I've basically been trying to show her respect implicitly, to not argue about anything, to do damn near anything she requests (and she ain't shy to ask me to jump and tell me how high she'd like these days!) to not try to force her or beg her into anything she doesn't want, and to tell her how sorry I am often - while at the same time making it very clear what my position is - without forcing it upon her - I tell her that I messed up royally, that I am SO sorry, that I understand why she wants a divorce, and I don't blame her - but for what it's worth, I do not want to divorce, I am in love with her, I only want to make her and our babies happy again, and I am willing to do whatever it takes, including working my azz off, and taking my lumps when they come to me. But if she wants something else, I will cooperate without a bit of hassle. - You said we do not have the right to happiness - I'm sorry, but I don't agree. I have made myself (and many others) miserable for a few yeaars now, and it's time for some joy in my life - and very often happiness just comes from your inner attitude. Which I am working on. The affair was not a source of joy. Any pleasure attached to it had such a tremendous weight attached to it that it was as painful as it was pleasant. I betrayed my best friend (my wife) and I hated - and hate - myself for it - a few things you said that I thought were interesting - repentance - I agree completely - God has been sending me a number of messages about that in the last few days - I thought I had done some repenting, but I'm not so sure I did a real good job as God continues to work in my life and tell me this (through such wonderful vehicles as yourself!) - you also said something that I hadn't actually put together yet - you're right, the relationship we HAD is what I want. That is gone. We are both different people. I actually feel that I've experienced some growth in a positive direction because of all this - I am now doing some things that I should have done all along - but that's a very interesting, and important - point - the fact is, though it may sound corny or hypocritical to you, I do feel like my wife and I were meant to be together - that we are soul mates even - again, I know you're all thinking 'then how the *&@# could you do this to her??!?' and I wish I could answer that. I lost my flipping mind - now that I'm out from the other woman's 'spell' I am beginning to see so many things more clearly again - I don't know how to make it make sense unless you've gone through it ...and maybe not even then ... Anyway, I'm late as crap, I gotta GO!! But I'm not really done with my post - I may try to write more later - THANK YOU ALL for your input and fellowship. God bless you guys! Onelove

Dang, Tiki - where have you been?!?! I've been searching the internet for a month for that post! BLESS YOU!!! I have a very broken heart. You really don't want to hear my story - it's posted on this site somewhere - if you see it you will probably say i deserve to feel pain - and I guess you'd be right - but despite the fact that I fricked up ROYALLY, I am still a human being with feelings, and after being made to feel miserable (both from myself as well as others) I think eventually i should have the right to heal and feel happiness again. I have been trying to fill the hole in my heart and in my life, but end up sitting at home surfing ...looking for ...relief from the pain ...thank you so much for the suggestions ...can you think of any good HEALTHY places to meet people? (I'm trying to stay away from bars, and have had some difficulty at church too!) anyway, even if you do think I'm a dirtball, I really appreciate your post - you've helped me a lot. God bless you!

Hey - I very much appreciate you guys' responses - I would like to clarify a few things - I am in no way proud of my affair - I am very,very FAR from being proud of what I've done. I'm actually quite ashamed to walk out in public, much less proud of it. If it were'nt for my kids, I would move to the other side of the world and start all over again. Actually, if it weren't for my kids, I honestly would have killed myself a while back. I realize that my behavior has been unspeakably selfish, inexcusable and apalling. There is absolutely no excuse for it - I myself don't know why it happened, and it seems like I literally lost my mind for several years. There is no way I can ever make it make sense unless it happened to you yourself. My head was indeed up my butt. I just fell insanely, irrationally in love with this woman, it was like I was in a spell - and now that she's no longer in my life, I'm SO GLAD she's not in my life, and that I'm free of that "spell". I feel free, and like I can think clearly again for the first time in years. I in no way expect to be patted on the back for my actions, because they were horrific. I don't blame you guys for thinking I am a dirtball - I agree. I very much appreciate your honest opinions, and know that I will hear a lot of things that I may not want to hear - I do seek honest, constructive input, even though I fully expect to hear stuff I don't want to - but I guess I was under the impression that this is a place where we have probably all made some mistakes, and we might try to not judge each other too harshly. I hope that that is correct. It would sadden me to think it is not. Obviously, I am well aware that I hurt my wife terribly, and realize that my pain certainly pales in comparison to hers. Which is one of the many reasons I want to try to do something positive in her life, and my children's life. What I meant when I said i was loyal and trustworthy is that my WHOLE LIFE leading up to this situation I have exhibited these traits, good morals, responsible behavior (with the exception of too much alcohol), and behaved like a christian is "supposed" to. As I said, all of this was VERY uncharacteristic of my behavior, and who I know myself to be. That made it all the more difficult for both my wife and I to understand what was happening. One piece of advice I keep hearing is to "work on yourself" - I basically understand what you mean when you say that, but what does that look like to you? What are some of the things a person does when he "works on himself"? People say "go to the gym, find a church home..." I do do those things, but I guess I'm not really feeling any progress towards filling up this huge hole that my actions have put in my chest and in my life. I know that what I did was terrible, but to say I don't deserve to even be given any chance at all to make amends does not seem fair to me. I don't expect anything or ask anything of her right now - I don't expect her to put her neck out emotionally or give to me or risk anything. All I ask is to give it a little time before she aggressively pursues divorce. I know I will have to work very, very, very hard to ever win her trust back, if it is possible to at all. It is worth every bit of work a thousand times over if I can bring my family back together. I'm sure it seems impossible to comprehend to most people, but I genuinely do love my wife and family very much, and I feel like I've finally come out of my stupor and want to make things right if I possibly can. I have made a number of positive changes in my life in the last few months, most notably not having a relationship with the other woman, getting a better job, going to AA, immersing myself in prayer and the Lord's word, losing 50 pounds, and just trying to live every moment of every day as if Jesus is standing right beside me. I know that God will bless me with what he wants to when he wants to. I also feel like I can't just sit in a chair and wait for God to bless me, that I have to be proactive and seek God's blessings. God helps those who helps themselves. I've really really screwed this up, and it seems like lunacy to not try to fix it, even if it is futile - I HAVE to TRY. I am making amends with the church families and others I have hurt, trying to go to each person that might have been affected by this and tell them how sorry I am, asking thier forgiveness if they can find it in thier hearts, and offer to do anything I can to try to make things better for them. This process alone has been very scary, humbling, humiliating, and difficult, but very good as well. Obviously I cannot make up for what I have done, but I can try to do something positive to at least build a bridge. I just want to be happy again - it's been a long time since I've been happy - and I also want to be a blessing in people's lives again. Anyway, I really really appreciate you guys' input, and I'm very much open to suggestions if you have them. (Preferably constructive ones! God bless you. Onelove

Hey guys - I've never done this posting thing before, so bear with me - to cut to the chase, I want to try to win my wife and family back. (I have 2 kids, a boy and a girl, ages 2 & 4) - I fricked up really,really, horribly badly, and she wants a divorce. And I can't really say I blame her - but I've got to try...I've GOT to try - I've finally gotten my head on straight, and I am trying to do everything right (sobriety included!), but she says it's too late, I've waited too long. I had an affair with a woman I met at church (I was the musical director there, she was an amazing singer) for 2 1/2 years - it was an incredibly passionate affair - some of the most intense emotions I've ever felt - sex on the pastor's desk before church, talks of eloping, talking on the phone for 5 hours at a time, sometimes 15 times a day, and beautiful love songs written to each other - amazing - fairy tale stuff ...it was also very ugly, with me getting fired from 2 churches (and another job) because of it, private investigators & cops, numerous face to face confrontations between myself and the 2 ladies, child custody court cases with my mistress' ex-husband involving my wife, a miscarried pregnancy with the other woman - very ugly ... I told many lies to both women during this time, and the whole thing was VERY uncharacteristic of my behavior. I am a christian and a good person with an honest, faithful, loyal heart. I never, ever dreamed that I was even capable of doing anything like this. When I told my wife about the affair (about 6 months into it - 2 years ago) she was pregnant with our second child, and of course devastated. I loved my wife deeply before the affair, and (believe it or not) all during the affair, and I love her deeply now. People used to always say that my wife and I acted like newlyweds whenever we were together (we were married 7 years when the affair started - it will be 9 years this coming Thursday). This other woman just had me completely mezmerised. I could not use my head. I absolutely lost my ever-loving mind! It was like she was heroin or something - I knew it was bad, but I just could'nt stop. We broke up many, many times, and I tried to go back with my family, but we always ended up coming back together. We were like two magnets that could not stop the attraction for each other. Anyway, she (the other woman) has found a new man now that has been divorced for 10 years, rich and drives a BMW, (I understand he's a playa...) so she has moved on. It has been completely devastating and heartbreaking, and I find myself desperately wanting to try to win her back, BUT it has also been very healing, and a quite a bit of a revelation. I am seeing lots of things I just couldn't see before. I am finally able to see that although she's an amazing lady, she's just a person, and she has many faults ...she's just not as charming as she was, as beautiful as she was, as witty, as smart, as sexy, as fun ...I can just see it a little differently now. She used to be the most incredible woman I had ever even imagined in my wildest fanasies, and now, I see a whole lot of qualites that i didn't see before. In fact she's very selfish, self-centered, inconsiderate, kind of a "user" (of people, not substances!) and sometimes just plain mean. I can also see that I have been a horrible, terrible, unbelievably bad husband to my wife, a horribly bad father to my children, and a complete fool. I know I don't deserve her forgiveness, but I am going to try - I am going to spend the rest of my life tring to make it up to her, whether she divorces me or not. (I know I can never make it up really, but all I can do is try ...) She says I've waited too long, that it's too late, to just give up. BUT we COULD have been divorced 7 months ago, and she has said that she's waited, though she doesn't know why. I am holding on to this fact for hope, and praying that I can SHOW her that I am the good, responsible, loving man that she fell in love with and married, and to try to give me one more chance. She barely even talks to me when I go to pick up the kids, says it hurts too much, causes her pain. All the books I'm reading say not to push her, don't beg, don't grovel (though I kind of think maybe a little groveling may be in order in this case!?!), don't try to talk her out of the divorce - and to just try to make myself someone who is pleasant for her to be around again - to be a blessing to her again - to make myself someone that she is attracted to again ...so ...I am trying ...though I feel quite lost without a map, and very sad and alone. I feel like i had everything I could have ever dreamed of having in the whole world, and i threw it all away. - Anyway, sorry I went on so long. If anyone has any advice on how I could save my marriage, (you know what? I wanted to say 'or win back my girlfriend' - but I'm NOT going to say that!! I don't want that - I'm just not all the way over her yet!!) - or to just to find happiness, PLEASE share with me! I am trying to find my way again - I feel like I've been in a coma for 2 1/2 years, and I wake up and my life is in shambles! I am desperate!! Please help if you have anything wise (or even not-so-wise!) to say! Constructive input very much welcome. God bless you. M