spatzcolumbo

Looks DO matter to some extent, at least to some people. There is no way of telling whether the person who is right for you finds looks more or less important than personality. Personality develops in certain ways for thousands of reasons: Childhood experience Parental relationships Social experiences Immersion in different cultures throughout life Parental personality Personal Friendships, and the personality of your friends Thousands of other miniscule things... I can pick tiny parts of my personality and attribute them to individual friends and relatives. I can see where important people in my life have influenced my personality. Personality obviously can't JUST be linked to how much attention you get! HOwever, in addition, a degree of personality and social awareness often DOES comes from your social interaction with members of the opposite sex. If you are physically attractive to a large number of people, you may well find that your inner self does not develop as strongly. The reason for this is surely that you have not needed it to. This is especially true on the dating scene - the people perceived by the masses as being physically attractive can largely pick and choose from the dating pool. On the other hand, those who get less attention often find that they develop in other ways - they develop a broader (but at the same time more refined) personality. They learn how to talk to all sorts of different people, they learn the values and lessons that come from not being the most popular person in the world. They gain perspective from going through periods of feeling down about themselves, or at least from not being hugely popular all the time. In many instances, whilst this is a great set of traits to have, it does not immediately lead to greater success with the opposite sex. This in turn often leads to the low self esteen and anxiety that many people mention on these boards. However, slowly but surely, if you get past these issues, the inner personality start to show through in the outer physical attractiveness - you start to hold your head high, walk tall, and so on. You start to smile more. People notice these things, and you appear more attractive to a greater number of people. I think a lot of this stuff relates to perception and the way people judge others. Like it or not, everyone makes snap judgements about everyone else. They base things on their physical appearance, their dress sense, the way they talk, the way they walk. They pick up on SO many tiny details. So many people don't even realise the kinds of things they can do to make themselves appear more attractive in terms of these tiny details that everyone sub-consciously picks up on. Everyone on this board uses these tiny clues and cues to decide whether they find someone attractive. MOst people don't even know they are picking up on things - because it is all automatic.

You don't have to cross the line to know where the line is. Quite often if you see someone in a group of people, you can pretty easily work out what people are like. This works the same for how they react to fun, friendly teasing. Why is it not natural to find the line? I'm the kind of guy who will tease a girl i like if i am getting the right vibe off her (for instance if she happens to playfully tease me). That is me being natural. Finding the line and how far i can take this teasing is all part of me being me. There is nothing suspicious about it - it's all a bit of fun, which both people enjoy. None of my humour is rude. Maybe sometimes it has a flirty double meaning behind it, but we're adults, so whats the problem?? Exactly - pay attention to her, and you naturally work out her limits - what she likes, what she doesn't like. You do it yourself - the moment you meet someone, you make judgements about them, and you then change and modify these judgements as you get to know them more. This is the natural process of social interaction. Nothing wrong, or un-natural about it!!

I'll agree with Shy on this one - the most important thing is to be yourself and relax. If you manage to get into a happy state like that, your natural sense of humour will surface. And it never hurts to find the line. everyone has a line for humour and teasing...find how far you can go without crossing the line, and you'll be in the perfect spot. Just make sure you never cross the line.

Shy, you are too quick to assume things. How do you KNOW that what most conider as 'the edge' is the bad boy behaviour? You really have a massive problem with the bad boy thing, but you never seem to understand that i'm not talking about anything like a 'bad boy'. As soon as you get past the idea that 'edge' doesn't have to be negative, you might get what i am talking about. Open your mind to it, and it might make sense. I'll leave it up to you, as i know you already feel confident and decided in what you say. I'm talking about how a lot of perceived 'nice guys' are often seen as pushovers and are not seen as a potential mate. The edge is having the confidence, wit, intelligence, and standing up in what you believe in. Hell, maybe i just described you - but not as far as you're concerned...as soon as i mention anything about 'edge' you immediately equate it with 'bad boy'. Nice guy with an edge is still fundamentally what i'd consider a nice guy. But there is enough about him to make women take that little bit more interest. Nobody knows how or why, but there is something. I'm not really up for having this whole discussion again!!

we all know what i'm gonna say cos i've said it in hundreds of other posts. Nice guy with an edge...Just like Caldus said! The edge is the clincher. All the traits of the nice guy, but with that added something!!

I'd correct that as "being able to stand up for yourself when you believe you are right". And the other part about not always needing to have your say, but knowing how to pick and choose your spots....in my opinion that is not confidence, but wisdom.

If there was a tip i could give it would be to remember that it doesn't ALL have to be about talking. You can slowly build up your confidence, and build into a conversation with just the right body language. If you are out at a bar or club, then half the time, body language is ultimately more important than what you actually say (believe it or not!). learn to hold yourself in a confident way, and look like you are happy with who you are. Try to make a bit of eye contact with a few different people, and smile if you they hold your eye contact. I know a few people on here who will disagree, but if you get your body language correct in bars and clubs, it will be them coming to you and leading the conversation rather than you having to go up to them and leading the conversation. And to come back to the name thing... so you get her name, and then your mind goes blank? How about something like this "Hi there, i'm Spatz, what's your name?" "Hi, i'm Sophie" "Hello Sophie...nice to meet you! Are you enjoying your night tonight? I noticed you earlier and it looked like you were having a great night!" "Yeah i'm having a good night" "thats good...i love this place...especially at the weekend after a hard week's work!!" with any luck she'll take the bait, and ask you what you do...then the conversation should get going. Use stuff like that to relax you into her company, then hopefully you'll be away. If you feel the conversation is running dry, then duck out before it goes quiet...make your excuses and you can always find her again later for anothr chat.

Just make sure you deduct the right amount to buy some condoms. Safe sex.

yup, you're spot on - i think a lot of people do the whole thing of trying to come up with a witty response, but wouldn't bother if they weren't attracted!!

2smart, that was my point exactly, and you backed it up Its like i said a while ago in a different thread - you have to know who you are talking to, what flicks their switch, and what switches them off!! If you can work that out, then you're on the right track. Alongside this in relationship terms is that you are more than likely going to weed out the people who don't do anything for you (in terms of flicking YOUR switch). If someone responds well to something, and you find it fun, then the attraction might build. I like to think that i am socially aware enough to be able to interact on a number of different levels. I said to shysoul before that i think it is important to be able to talk to different people in different ways. You say about there being the 'line' and this rings true with my theory. Everyone has a different 'line' and the hard part is working out how to talk to them. I like to think that i talk differently to people i am attracted to, whilst still being true to who i am. On another level, i will not talk that way to someone i am just friends with, or someone i work with. The teasing usually naturally comes out when i am attracted to someone - and i generally manage to judge them correctly. i think you are right when you say that social interactions and things at work can often act as good parallels to things in your personal life. Equally there are different KINDS of funny and teasing. There are the funny lines i can come out with around my friends, and then there are the funny and teasing things i can come out with when flirting. They are completely different. The flirting funny is usually a lot more risque and subtly plays to a very different level than the 'normal funny'. Does that make sense?

Wow so i have been away from the boards for a few weeks, and i check back and still Shysoul and the others are debating the whole nice guy / teasing thing. As i've said countless times before, why do nice guy and teasing have to be kept separate? I'm a nice guy, but i tease women in a fun way that they enjoy. Old news to half the people who are reading this post - they've heard me say it before. Teasing can be fun if you know the other person enjoys it. All it does (as has been said before) is create and stimulate sexual tension. The next time you walk into a crowd of people, and that girl is there, she will IMMEDIATELY be on her toes ready for whatever you might throw at her as a teasing remark. SHe notices you straight away, and is ready for the fun that you're about to have. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen with Shy's techniques - i'm sure it does. What i AM saying is that the teasing humour thing works for me, and i love it when a woman teases me back - it shows she has a sharp mind and can use it for other things than serious conversation. It shows she has a fun side that matches my fun side. Point in case, a few months ago i was at the pub with some friends, and a girl who i flirt with a lot walked in and saw our group. The guy sitting next to me got up to leave, and the girl immediately looked at me with a grin on her face and said "oh great look who i get to sit next to" sarcastically. I pointed to an empty table in the corner and said "there's room over there", and so the teasing / flirting begins for the whole night...and we're laughing and joking with each other all night!! Nothing wrong with that!! Anyway i've said enough!!

One word. Timing. Someone can go on for HOURS being pretty funny, then you can step in with ONE perfectly timed comment, and you'll be the one remembered as being the funny one!! It's all about timing.

No, controlling and bossiness in a relationship are not good things. But you are delving too deeply into the idea of 'alpha male'. The extent to which i am looking at it is purely from an attraction point of view. Like it or not, a lot of women DO fall for the alpha male traits. This is fact. We have several examples. We also know that NOT all 'alpha males' are bad boys. It is not always that the alpha male WANTS control over a group. Sometimes the control is given to him by the group. Does this make him a jerk? No. If one guy tends to be slightly more outgoing and easy to get on with than the other guys in the group, and has something about him that naturally draws people in, then he might be deemed in the group's unconcsious mind as the 'alpha male'. It is not something he has chosen, and he does not go out and try to get control over anyone. However, because he has been given that position by the group, it shines through to others who see him as part of that group. This is where the attraction may arise. The best type of alpha male is the one who is in that situation, but knows that they must treat people kindly, and that it is not all about control. You are once again too quick to assume that all people who demonstrate alpha male qualities are the same. This is not true.

Hey Cass, Just wondering who you were directing that comment at? I'm not sure anyone is putting the future of a relationship on the ideas / fact of alpha male! But the idea of the alpha male is a perfetly acceptable one in any animal society, humans included!! As for the games, i've always thought that a lot of people on here have different ideas of what games are. A lot of relationship games are fun teasing each other playfully, flirting, etc. In my eyes at least, there are games which are needed in a relationship. The alpha male thing does not have to equate to dating books or sites. Nor does it have to equate to 'bad boys' or games. The guy you describe (goofy down to earth guys) are just as likely to be alpha males as anyone else!!

See this is what i am saying - i talk about all this in a dating context because we are posting in a forum called 'DATING'. As i pointed out previously, those sites are also about dating, NOT relationships! In any case the teasing and all that other stuff is great if you know how to use it, if it is you, and if you use it at the right times. For instance, i'd only use it for people i am attracted to. To be honest, more often than not, that will be someone who also appears to feel something back! But the alpha male thing can apply to all situations and all women - its not something you are specifically doing to get women to notice you, its just how some guys ARE. Its almost like an aura that these guys give off - an energy.