nice guy syndrome... need Rx!!!

[Dating Coach]

I think you are hung up on the terms instead of the actual point, because we are not talking about "opinions" even if we are talking in generalities. These things are simple facts in most cases. Focus on only the positive traits.

 

"Nice guys" usually accept abuse from their partner, "jerks" don't. Being able to stand up for yourself to your partner is a very positive quality that most "Nice Guys" tend to lack.

 

"Jerks" usually don't hold their feelings inside, "nice guys" often do. "Nice Guys" tend to have this need for approval which causes them to be dishonest. Instead of voicing their opposing opinion and risking their partner getting mad at them they often remain silent or even pretend to believe what their partner believes. This is not a positive trait and it exudes weakness. That is not attractive. What is attractive is someone who can stand up for what they believe in, who will voice that opinion (in a mature way), and who's not afraid to be theirself. This is something the "jerk" doesn't have problems with, but the "nice guy" usually does. It's a bad need for approval.

 

"Nice guys" will often try and overprovide for a chick as a way to get a chick. "Jerks" don't do this. This also ties in with the "Nice Guys" insecurity and need to approval. They try too hard and it shows their insecurity-which is unattractive. "Jerks" tend to be more confident in that by being themselves that is enough. They don't have to shower the girl with gifts to feel comfortable that their girl likes them in return. They are secure-and that being secure is attractive.

 

Now I also am not sure if I buy into the "possessiveness" as being an attractive trait, but I guess it depends upon what heloladies means. If he means it like I suspect then he has a point. Here's a scenario that I have seen a lot on forums:

 

John and his girlfriend Steph live together in an apartment. Steph likes to chat online with people, but then recently decided that she wanted to meet up with a guy that she met online. She doesn't ask John if he is okay with it, she simply tells him that she is going to do it and goes. John shrugged it off and thought to himself that he trusts her and should show it. Steph met that guy, and then another, and then another, and then another. John started to think to himself that something is not right but he says nothing. One day while browsing his myspace he looks at hers and notices some messages between her and another guy making fun of him! He confronts her about this and she admits that two of these meetings with two different guys led to "kissing". John was upset but he did not break things off, nor did he forbid her to keep meeting guys online.

 

The next situation happened when she broke plans they've had to go to his sisters wedding and told him that a guy she had been talking to online for a couple of weeks was coming in to town (from 3 states away) to see her and she couldn't ask him to turn around since he was already severl hours into the trip. Does John break it off with Steph? Does John tell her that if she meets up with this guy that it's over? No, John again tried to prove to her that he was an understanding guy and let it happen.

 

This story is true, and it got worse until we finally convinced him to dump this girl and move on. The story was pretty amazing and what made it really wild is when "Steph" got online to defend herself-because she posted on the same forum. We exposed her as the selfish spoiled brat that she was, and caught her in two more lies. He finally kicked her out of the apartment.

 

So as far as being more "possessive", perhaps that's the wrong term to use, because what would have helped John is if he stood up for himself and told her that if she meets up with these guys from the internet then the relationship is over. Steph would have called him possessive but I believe that is not the case, it means that the guy respects himself and his relationship and won't tolerate dating someone who will disrespect it. If he had shown her this strength then perhaps she would have been less likely to meet up with other people knowing that John would have ended the relationship. After all once we finally convinced John to end it the girl started begging for him to go to "counciling" with her and put the blame of "giving up on the relationship" on his shoulders rather than her own for cheating and lying. But then again, maybe she would have cheated anyway-she was a wackjob.

 

Bottom line, there are many things that the weak "Nice Guy" needs to change because his weakness costs him respect, and that in turn costs attraction. Perhaps the term "Jerks" shouldn't even be used because of the negative connotation that comes with it, but it doesn't change the truth of the point whether you are willing to accept it or not.

[nemo_lost]

I guess I'm learning that a person needs to come off as interesting. I think the reason why "nice guys" take so long to find someone is that people need to get to know them, like coworkers or classmates. They aren't ineteresting right off the bat, but girls learn to like them once they realize that they are attracted to them. Flattery helps but isn't the momney maker with women... especially the ones who already know they're hot as hell!!!

[Dating Coach]

I guess I'm learning that a person needs to come off as interesting. I think the reason why "nice guys" take so long to find someone is that people need to get to know them, like coworkers or classmates. They aren't ineteresting right off the bat, but girls learn to like them once they realize that they are attracted to them. Flattery helps but isn't the momney maker with women... especially the ones who already know they're hot as hell!!!

 

First impressions are huge, and of course someone who is interesting and fun is going to have a huge advantage oversomeone who's drab and reclusive. Not only that, but the fun, outoging, and interesting person is putting themselves out there far more which presents 100X the opportunity.

 

The reasons "Nice Guys" tend to take so long to find a partner (that stays around) is not because people need to get to know them first, but because of many other factors which include a desperate need for approval, being a pushover, not making their intentions clear from the very start, a fear of rejection, low self confidence and self respect, etc. It's simply a recipe for disaster. It is so much harder to find someone who's going to respect you and have interest in you when you don't even respect yourself or find yourself interesting. It's also very difficult for someone to look at you as a partner if all you do is hide your true feelings and intentions and instead try to sneak in under the disguise of "just friends".

 

Read this thread, read the link in my signiture, read the links heloladies posted, read the articles on link removed and keep coming back to these forums to ask questions. If you really want to improve your situation then you must actively try to improve it. Good luck!

[DN]

Possessivness in arelationship is not necessarily a bad thing. That is why we talk about 'my wife/husband' and 'my boyfriend/girlfriend'. It's why we talk about belonging together.

 

That's what commitment means. And if a partner is inappropriately interacting with other people it is not being a 'jerk' to refuse to tolerate it.

[BlueWolf]

Give this a thought:

If you think all girls like jerks, do you think that the guys here on this site who get a lot of the girls would also share advice (at gold cost) with you which would lead you to become a better person?

I don't think jerks share that info with nice guys, as inherently, jerks don't give much of a damn about nice guys. You know exactly what I mean.

 

So what's my point? Like others have said, there is a huge misconception by "nice guys" that all girls want are jerks. I used to think so! Not so anymore!

 

The term "nice guy" also goes WAY deeper than what it means on the surface. It is NOT a compliment to be called a nice guy. It literally means that you are socially handicapped with girls. It means that you have NO IDEA what it's all about.

It irritates me how some people say that as a nice guy, you should not change (I've heard girls say this all the time). Why say this? Are you relying on the notion that if one is not a nice guy, he automatically becomes a jerk?

 

Whoa... Just WOW. These are the two EXTREMES we are talking about here.

 

There is a lot of confusion here, and it needs to be cleared up! Nice guys thinking jerks are the ones getting all the girls. Nonconforming nice guys hating jerks and getting frustrated wondering what the hell they have to do to better themselves without becoming a jerk. People misinterpreting the term "nice guy." Girls getting on people's cases for the brilliant suggestion of kicking the "nice-guy" habit. Nice guys getting confused by girls. Girls getting confused by nice guys and jerks alike... and people who actually have their facts straight sitting up there shaking their heads in frustration trying to figure out what to do to fix the confusion and to set things straight.

 

No wonder discussions like these yield large posts and long threads!

 

People who are absorbing good advice should be thankful that more experienced guys are willing to sit down and offer their help and knowledge to nice guys - because they need it.

I'm not trying to bash nice guys. I used to be one months ago. Now that I look back, I can only laugh at myself. And you know what? It's perfectly fine! We live and learn.

I had a different reality back then. I used LOGIC. I expected that being nice all the time would get me somewhere with girls. For example, being the first one to offer my help at NO COST. Basically I used to be an ***wipe.

 

On the other hand, I don't even understand why negativities have to be attached to guys who know how to get girls. I have no problem with negativities being attached to jerks who don't really give a damn about girls in general, but if someone is actually socially-aware with girls he is dubbed as a FAKE, a PUA, and a player.

 

Sorry if that is your reality, but what it all comes down to in the big picture is that you have to make some moves to get a girl. To the inexperienced eye, the guy doing this becomes a jerk.

 

So here is what it comes down to. You don't have to be a jerk to get girls. And you certainly can not be the "nice guy" (defined as socially unaware).

 

So relax, you can still be a gentleman.

You can still care for the girl.

It is all about doing the right thing and becoming a better person so you understand where things like that stand and how they work.

 

What is more, read this excerpt from this book (page 31-33) about nice guys and jerks. It gives an excellent explanation as to where both stand socially:

link removed

 

Hope this post helps someone.

[Dako]

If you think you've gone through changes at 17, you'l be astounded how much you'll change in the next 17.

[BlueWolf]

Of course that is true. =)

Change is good. As long as it is for the better.

 

But for better or for worse, gotta learn and accept both no matter what happens.

[Dating Coach]

Well said Blue Wolf. You're only 17. I didn't understand that much until I was 22.

[MushroomGod]

E is a wonderful place to learn these sorts of things. I've heard discussions back and forth about "nice" guys.

 

I was the "nice" guy most of my life. It's a shock I was able to have the success I did looking back on it. I noticed the only time I did have success was when I was decisive. When I went back to being that nice guy I lost it.

 

I still think I'm a nice guy, but one who knows what he wants and isn't afraid to get it. When I get it I don't revert back to the "nice" guy, I keep the same personality though out. You cannot be fake either, you have to be yourself at all times.

 

My advice is never to change who you are just make yourself better.

[ghost69]

i learned a lot when i was 24.