friscodj Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I have found you can never go wrong in giving a woman a flower...even if she doesn't like you it will still make her feel special... Pick your own if you have to, go on a walk with her and pick her a flower, etc. No need to spend any money...it's a gift of nature just like she is... Link to comment
iamteddybearfeelmecuddle Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I have found you can never go wrong in giving a woman a flower...even if she doesn't like you it will still make her feel special... Pick your own if you have to, go on a walk with her and pick her a flower, etc. No need to spend any money...it's a gift of nature just like she is... Yeah, picking a wildflower or something, is just fine. It's much more about a gesture than about a dollar amount. Link to comment
NJRon Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Actually, you can go wrong with bringing a girl a flower. Once, it actually led to a relationship! Never going to do *that* again. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 No one limited that demonstration of interest to gifts, either Diggity. Don't be so materialistic. Besides you can get a rose for $1.00. No one said a guy HAD to. It is simply a NICE thing to do. Get it?. I'm not being materialistic, I'm making a point that there are too many things that can go wrong and you could send the wrong message in buying presents for a girl on a first date. It's completely unnecessary because it's not the only way nor the best way that you can demonstrate your interest. You shouldn't need to bring anything other than yourself to a first date, and buying presents can be and has been detrimental whereas not doing this is not detrimental in any way. Why risk it? Besides, coming from a guy who has done this in the past as well as from a guy who has worked with loads of other guys who have done this, the reason most guys buy presents on the first date is not because it's a nice gesture, its because he wants her to see how nice of a guy he is. That is a terrible motive. Deny it all you want guys, this is why 99% you do this. You are trying to get her to view you in a certain favorable light by buying gifts because you believe that she will think it is sweet of you. I've done it. Pretty much every guy I worked with did it for this reason as well. It reaks of low confidence and the need for her approval. I find that the guys who insist on doing this while knowing that it is unnecessary are the very ones who do it because they need that approval from women. Are guys that insecure about their personality and ability to attract women that they feel they need to prove their niceness to them? You only need to bring yourself, and if you are a good guy she will know. She's not dumb. You don't need to show her or buy her favor. As I said, there are too many wrong signals you can send out by doing this, it's completely unnecessary, so don't do it. Link to comment
iamteddybearfeelmecuddle Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Actually, you can go wrong with bringing a girl a flower. Once, it actually led to a relationship! Never going to do *that* again. Yeah, it could lead to a relationship! A lot of my more serious boyfriends in the past have started out with a nice date and them bringing me a flower at some point on that first or second date. I really didn't have a problem with it. In fact I thought it was a very sweet gesture, and showed they were making an effort to let me know they liked me. I sure can't see what's wrong with that! Link to comment
iamteddybearfeelmecuddle Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I don't think it's necessary. And I do see the point that it could be a guy covering up for something negative about himself; but I myself would never assume that it was a cover up or smoke and mirrors thing. I would assume just as I said, that he likes me and wants me to know it, which I find cute and sweet, and for me that is a good thing. Link to comment
annie24 Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 LOL. The great flower debate! I had a first date with a guy, I was cooking him dinner, he brought me a red rose. I thought it was sweet and I really liked it. Another guy (an ex) sent me a boquet of flowers on valentines day, and that pissed me off, because I told him that i needed space and time to think about getting back together. After I got the flowers, I told him never to contact me again! so, yes, flowers can piss a girl off Link to comment
iamteddybearfeelmecuddle Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 LOL. The great flower debate! I had a first date with a guy, I was cooking him dinner, he brought me a red rose. I thought it was sweet and I really liked it. Another guy (an ex) sent me a boquet of flowers on valentines day, and that pissed me off, because I told him that i needed space and time to think about getting back together. After I got the flowers, I told him never to contact me again! so, yes, flowers can piss a girl off But the context that we were actually referring to, I believe was actually the first scenario that you'd mentioned, in which case I can speak for myself and say that would not have any potential for pissing me off. Link to comment
annie24 Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 yeah, I think a red rose on the first date is fine. If the guy thinks that the girl got turned off by the red rose alone, he is sorely mistaken. Brad Pitt could come to my door with roses, balloons, and chocolate, I would not be turned off. For the guys who have had girls turn them down after bringing a rose, maybe she would have turned them down regardless? Maybe in general, they were "trying too hard" and that was the turn off. Or they just didn't feel the chemistry, either way. Link to comment
iamteddybearfeelmecuddle Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 yeah, I think a red rose on the first date is fine. If the guy thinks that the girl got turned off by the red rose alone, he is sorely mistaken. Brad Pitt could come to my door with roses, balloons, and chocolate, I would not be turned off. For the guys who have had girls turn them down after bringing a rose, maybe she would have turned them down regardless? Maybe in general, they were "trying too hard" and that was the turn off. Or they just didn't feel the chemistry, either way. Yes, I completely agree with these assertions... Annie, I take it you are also not a huge Brad Pitt fan? Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Maybe in general, they were "trying too hard" and that was the turn off. That's exactly it. Bringing a flower gift on a first date is trying to impress a girl, and more often than not if a guy is doing this then this is not the only area that he is trying too hard. This is very common with inexperienced guys. Inexperienced guys tend to feel more pressure and feel like they need to show the girl that he is "different" than the other guys out there, and what I am saying is that these guys need to reign their actions in. Girls are very intelligent and if he is a decent guy she will know when he relaxes and be's his self. I think it is more romantic and meaningful by how he acts and presents himself and not with gifts and other material things. Besides, knowing how most guys who need relationship help are the ones who are doing about everything wrong, I advise them to work on their self esteem. On dates I want them analyzing whether or not she is worthy of dating him. Too many insecure guys fall for just about any girl that shows him attention and their whole game revolves around trying too hard. It's these guys that I want to reel in and tone down their overzealousness. Link to comment
mba1 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 That's exactly it. Bringing a flower gift on a first date is trying to impress a girl, and more often than not if a guy is doing this then this is not the only area that he is trying too hard. This is very common with inexperienced guys. Inexperienced guys tend to feel more pressure and feel like they need to show the girl that he is "different" than the other guys out there, and what I am saying is that these guys need to reign their actions in. Girls are very intelligent and if he is a decent guy she will know when he relaxes and be's his self. I think it is more romantic and meaningful by how he acts and presents himself and not with gifts and other material things. i think you've missed the boat here, diggity... ONE flower is hardly akin to a present or gift - it's monetary value is less than $5 if even that and it'll die in two days or so... it's a thoughtful gesture, plain and simple !!! any "intelligent" girl/woman is going to know this and considering that, giving someone a flower is not going to be the sole indicator on whether or not the relationship will progress. geesh, it's a bleeping flower for pete's sake ! bringing flower(s) is not desperate or trying to hard - have you heard of thoughtfulness before ??? believe it or not, some men give flowers bc they are thoughtful & chivalrous. there is certainly not anything wrong w/that! as a relatively intelligent and attractive female - i can say wholeheartedly that i appreciate it , bc it tells me that the person was considerate and thoughtful enough to put in a little more effort than simply just showing up at my front door. personally i find nothing wrong about it at all!!! Link to comment
DN Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 What do you bring for the guy to show him you are considerate and thoughtful enough to put in a little more effort than simply being at the front door when he shows up? Link to comment
friscodj Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Agreed! Thank you! =D> But my eyes don't agree with your font...off to get laser surgery now... Link to comment
friscodj Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 What do you bring for the guy to show him you are considerate and thoughtful enough to put in a little more effort than simply being at the front door when he shows up? Seeing her happiness and feelings of being special are enough for me...or am I needy, insecure, immature, sending the wrong "signals", making the wrong "move", in need of therapy, medication, and quadruple-bypass brain surgery for saying that????? Link to comment
DN Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 The point I am trying to make is that there seems to be a a 'requirement' that men buy things or show extra attention to women that is not required to be reciprocated. Often that early requirement extends into a relationship and then it is not in balance and that is not healthy. Those gifts, extra courtesies, extra attentions etc. are left overs from different days and different expectations. We have, thank heaven, entered a new era of the expectation of gender equality (that does not mean genderless) and that should extend to both people putting the same sort of effort into the relationship. It's a simple concept but it is hard for some to let go of the old-fashioned ways long after those ways no longer serve their original purpose and can actually hinder progress for both genders. Link to comment
NJRon Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I definitely see your point. I don't view it as a requirement. However, I typically do bring a small gift to a first date (however, only if we have spoken at length a few times prior to the date). Typically it's $10 or less and based on something specific to her... usually something that stood out in a conversation we had. For my last 'first date', in talking on the phone, she repeatedly talked about how she would lie on her bed and look out her skylight and watch the planes fly by. I brought her one of those styrofoam planes you can put together from the toy store. She really appreciated the thought, it cost very little and it's something we could put together and fly at a park on a future date. The reward was seeing her smile and also a nice way to break the ice for a first meeting. I really don't see what the big deal is. Guys shouldn't feel pressured to bring, or not to bring a gift. If it comes naturally, then act natural. I don't do it all the time, because I don't force it. But if inspiration hits, I go with it. Link to comment
iamteddybearfeelmecuddle Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I definitely agree with that. Link to comment
annie24 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 What do you bring for the guy to show him you are considerate and thoughtful enough to put in a little more effort than simply being at the front door when he shows up? I've gone out and spent hundreds of dollars on a new outfit, earrings, and manicure to show up on a date with. I don't tell the guys that though. I just make an extra effort to look nice. Link to comment
Kevin T Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 What a lively discussion... all over a simple flower! lol Anyway, I agree with Diggity. You don't want to appear to be seeking approval from women that early on in the relationship (if one develops), nor do you want to seem to be trying to make up for your own perceived inadequacies by trying to "buy her off." I think the flower IS a nice gesture, but most guys don't understand what exactly they are saying when they do this. I've never actually done the flower thing and had great dates in the past, so I know it's not required. I'm thinking maybe on the second date, it wouldn't hurt... as long as you both had a fantastic time. If not, then don't bother. But as sweet and romantic as it may seem, on the first date, I think it's coming on a little too strong, which you don't want. It depends on the girl, some may think it's "thoughtful" but others will definitely think it's "too much" and "unnecessary." I hardly think it would BREAK a girl's opinion of a guy just because he didn't go out and buy her a flower on their very first date. Link to comment
iamteddybearfeelmecuddle Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I've gone out and spent hundreds of dollars on a new outfit, earrings, and manicure to show up on a date with. I don't tell the guys that though. I just make an extra effort to look nice. That's for sure. I've also done these things. I've spent lots of money and time that I normally wouldn't spend time on, making sure I look my best (straighen my hair, put on make up, put on perfume, pick out just the right jewelry and accessories to match). I kind of figure the guy wants to take out someone who looks good, not take me out to some fancy restaurant while I'm just hanging around in my baggy ratty clothes and my hair in a messy knot on top of my head. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 personally i find nothing wrong about it at all!!! Yeah, I guess I wouldn't find anything wrong about a girl showing up at my door with my favorite cd or something either. In fact, I think we should start encouraging all girls to bring cd's or something else to first dates. I think I would like that very much! Okay, I admit that I am being sarcastic. I find this to be one of those situations where what is being said is different than how the actual response turns out. Here is what Laura Larkin from SharpDating team had to say about it: First date flowers are controversial. Many SharpMen write to ask whether it's appropriate to show up with flowers at the door. Our take? Unless it's her first date ever, she's a divorcee going out for the first time after the breakup, or you're long-time friends who have finally gone out on a date, our position is "no." Dating is expensive enough without having to shell out for stems before the date even begins. If it turns out to be a great date, consider springing for flower delivery the following day (for more on this, see the very first link removed). Otherwise, save your cash for dinner. Post-first-date flower arrangement size? Think "small and tasteful" to "medium." Why? It's just a first date, remember? No need to give her the impression that she doesn't have to dress up for you anymore. Planetout columnist Charles Purdy says: However, with most first dates (unless you already know the person well), showing up at the door with a gift is not strictly necessary -- a first date is often a "compatibility test." And an informal poll I conducted suggests that a majority of single people would, indeed, find first-date flowers a bit over the top. Charles hits the nail on the head. The first date is a compatability test. You are meeting the person to learn about them and to decide whether or not they are worth dating you. I seriously doubt that you require your dates to buy you gifts in order to pass your compatability test. It's simply not necessary. Not only that, but you could be sending far too many wrong signals such as seeking the approval of your "date", insecurity that you will fail to impress her with your personality so you must resort to material things to impress her, coming accross as "fake", etc. It's simply not worth the risk. What is the desperation to do this coming from anyway? Maybe friscodj can explain why he feels the need to present flower gifts on the first date? If it is such a small thing, why insist on it? As far as chivalry goes, I'm all about it. My fiance' is completely pleased with my romantic side. My stance on this subject has nothing to do with chivalry, it has to do with impressions, necessity, purpose, trends, etc. Kevin T said it well. You don't want to appear to be seeking approval from women that early on in the relationship (if one develops), nor do you want to seem to be trying to make up for your own perceived inadequacies by trying to "buy her off." I think the flower IS a nice gesture, but most guys don't understand what exactly they are saying when they do this. It's simply a safer bet to bring yourself, your best outfit, best cologne, and best smile to a date. THAT is what we need to focus advice on, not materialistic things that have a high probability of being miscontstrued or detrimental. Link to comment
iamteddybearfeelmecuddle Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 A CD is maybe $15+; a flower can be bought at any grocery store for maybe $2. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 To add to what I was saying about the compatability test and how the first date should be judging the person on whether or not they are worthy of dating you: As the guy, we need to get away with acting like we are compatable with any girl who will date us. This is one of the big reasons I am against gifts on first dates. The guy needs to get away from seeking her approval and start looking at first dates as an "interview" to see if she meets your standards and is compatable with you. Seriously, so many guys chase after women and come on too strong. This is what I was talking about before. I want to gear guys away from doing this. Buying a rose isn't the real topic for me, it's the entire mentality of seeking her approval rather than seeing if she meets yours. That doesn't seem to be happening when your out there buying her gifts before the date has even begun. Link to comment
Dating Coach Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 A CD is maybe $15+; a flower can be bought at any grocery store for maybe $2. That's why I said I was being sarcastic. Link to comment
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