call this one back or forget it

[PocoDiablo]

My take on this? Simple. You totally friendzoned yourself by talking on the phone. You took all the challenge out of getting to know her, and she would of had nothing to talk to you in person. And unless you were flirting with her, why would she go out? You already made it clear who you were.

 

Let's go over the details:

 

this is a girl who messaged me 2 weeks ago on an online dating site.

Twice = interest in you.

 

we emailed a couple of times, then we started talking on the phone.

This was a reasonably good move. The goal of online dating is to get OFFLINE and in person. By getting her phone number, you should have flirted a little and set up a date. Time and place. Then met in person. Keep the phone calls short, too, like 10 minutes MAX, even though I personally prefer 5 minutes at tops.

 

had about 6-7 phone conversations in the past week, a few of them were long conversations (2+ hrs) that i thought were pretty good.

Yeah, but that is what she does with her girlfriends. This is how you friendzoned yourself. By talking on the phone, and not neccesarily getting to know her in person, make your intentions known (you wanted a date) she figured you were not interested. Most guys who online date make their intentions VERY clear. They want to go out with her. They ask her on the date. They do it quickly. The problem here is that you spent way too much time talking to her and not enough time doing anything with her.

 

Suggestion - pretend you have a total of 15 minutes TOTAL time when meeting someone online to meeting them in person. So that gives you about5 1 minute emails and 2 5 minute phone calls. Less effort, you have to be short and flirty, and you have to get her in person. Can you do it? Sure. Now if you wanted to meet a nice woman, how many women could you meet with the 15 minute rule? Realistically, give yourself 15 minutes per DAY to meet women. If you spend 1 minute each, you could have screened 15 women down to one or two with whom you had chemistry, and probably gone on a few dates.

 

we had a coffee date planned. we decided to postpone for another date.

We? Or she? If she really wanted to date you, she would have reminded you AND kept the date.

 

it was weird - i called up the day before to confirm

Why? You thought she was going to blow you off? I wouldn't do that, next time wait for her to call you *if* she is going to cancel.

 

we had a long conversation that i thought went really well.

Long conversation about ... flirting, joking, etc., or serious stuff that is boring and friendly?

 

when we hung up i forgot to confirm the date for the next day. i decided not to call her back and confirm, thinking that things were pretty good so far and it would give me an excuse to call her again. i should have gotten the date - when i called back a week later

Has she ever called you? And why'd you wait a week? If she were really interested in you she would have called you, and in fact probably would not have postponsed the date to begin with.

 

Her interest level in you dropped more and more with each phone call.

 

for some reason the dynamic between us seemed to shift - we had another long phone convo, and she hung up before i could get another date.

The less you talk the longer you last. The more you talk, the shorter you last. I find this is *especially* true on the phone before a first date.

 

You gave her no reason to go out with you it sounds like. No anticipation. No reason to meet you. She knew everything about you, like she did her best friend. You gotta give her a reason to see you, and that is why mysterious men are attractive to some extent.

 

i called back later that same day because i wanted to get her to agree to a date, she never called back.

Shows a lack of interest and I suspect your message was something like "Call me so we can go on a date." She is hinting that she does not want to date you.

 

Actions speak louder than words, what do you need to know? If she wanted a date, she'd have gone on one already. Now you are just her phone buddy.

 

i'm really puzzled - i thought we were getting along pretty well. she is pretty attractive, so it wouldn't surprise me if she is also thinking of other guys.

If she's online, in the weeks you wasted at least 10 other guys have (1) asked her on dates and (2) gone on dates with her. She is wondering why you haven't, and is not waiting for you any more.

 

it's been 2 days. call back sometime, or let this one go? i know some people mention the 3 strikes rule in dating - it's always been one strike and you're out for me. what do you think?

I think you were done after the first long phone call without setting up a date. Next time, talk for a few minutes, flirt, and ask her on a date. If she agrees, get her in person and go from there. I would say that talking on the phone removes all the mystery and is boring, so try to avoid it as much as possible.

 

The point here? Learn from your mistakes. You talked a lot and wasted a lot of time and got no where. Talk less, flirt more, and make more dates and see what happens. I bet you will be happily surprised!

[PocoDiablo]

My suggestion is to call her and leave a message asking her out (if she doesn't pick up). If she doesn't call you back again, cut your losses and don't let the next one you are interested in slip away.

I would *slightly* change this to:

 

Call her and if she does not pick up, leave this exact message:

 

Hey, this is [name]. Call me back. 555-111-2222.

 

That's it, nothing else. If she calls back, ask her out on a date. If she doesn't then throw her number away.

[nogame]

I would *slightly* change this to:

 

Call her and if she does not pick up, leave this exact message:

 

Hey, this is [name]. Call me back. 555-111-2222.

 

That's it, nothing else. If she calls back, ask her out on a date. If she doesn't then throw her number away.

 

is it better to do this right away or wait until after the weekend? last call was sunday.

 

thanks. great response above.

[nogame]

also - 'yeah but that is what she does with her girlfriends'

 

so you don't talk for more than 5 minutes on the phone with any girl that you are dating? it just seemed at the time that long phone convo = building a rapport, so it seemed like a good move.

[NJRon]

Everyone has different styles but, yeah... I personally think it's the total time. One 1-hour call is as good as 6 10-minute calls. The most "talk time" I try to have is a couple of hours between first call and meeting.

 

Of course, that changes if it's a distance issue... but then, that's a whole different kind of relationship. If you're living close together... try to reduce the talk time. The purpose is really just to make sure you two will click enough when meeting in person and that you both feel comfortable.

[PocoDiablo]

is it better to do this right away or wait until after the weekend? last call was sunday.

 

thanks. great response above.

The first time I get a number, I wait a minimum of 4 days to call, no more than 9 - yes NINE - days.

 

If you called her Sunday and she has not called back ... I'd toss the number. Seriously.

[PocoDiablo]

also - 'yeah but that is what she does with her girlfriends'

 

so you don't talk for more than 5 minutes on the phone with any girl that you are dating? it just seemed at the time that long phone convo = building a rapport, so it seemed like a good move.

The whole purpose of going on the date is to build rapport. Remember, real life is better than any form of electronic communication.

 

And no, I really don't talk on the phone long. I my opinion, the phone is a tool - as is email and texting - to use to make a date (meeting) with someone. Too many people have long talks, in depth stuff, fights, and even therapy over e-whatever and SO much is lost in the translation.

 

Did you know that something like 90% of human communication is non-verbal? So you lose 90% of your message when you are online. How can you make a connection with ANYONE when you're losing that much info? Even if it were 50%, that's too much!

 

I can say more with a look on my face that I can with 1000 words. And you can to, so ... get off the phone!

[nogame]

The first time I get a number, I wait a minimum of 4 days to call, no more than 9 - yes NINE - days.

 

If you called her Sunday and she has not called back ... I'd toss the number. Seriously.

 

sonofa... women.

[RayKay]

When I was online dating, I would not talk very much before meeting either. We would exchange some basic "get-to-know-more-than-your- profile-states" emails, and maybe a few IM conversations, maybe one short phone call (10-20 minutes) then set up a date.

 

Honestly, I agree with Annie, that when on a online dating site you tend to get quite a bit of emails and attention, and also get some bad experiences with wishy washy men, that you tend to watch out for red flags early on. I am independent too, but I am not willing to get involved with someone whom does not follow through, or whom shows disinterest before we have even met, if that makes sense. When you did not confirm, and did not set up a date again, and took a week to get back to her, she may have just felt you were not interested and distanced herself.

 

With my boyfriend - we exchanged a couple emails, talked on IM for maybe 3 or 4 days, he asked me out online, and the first time we talked on the phone was the DAY OF our date just to have a final confirmation about what spot we were meeting at. Before we met....I knew enough to have me interested and intrigued to meet him and see how it went, but not nearly enough to be picking out china patterns or anything

[nogame]

HELLO. she called back baby, YEAH!

[PocoDiablo]

Well, that shows interest! Care to share the details?

 

You DID ask her on a date, RIGHT??????

[nogame]

i made some chit chat and then asked her out within the first few minutes. i was like, 'when are we going out for coffee? give me a time and place'. we set up a date for next sunday, i wanted a 1 hour coffee date. she wanted me to meet her at a diner, then go with her to a flea market. then i tried to hang up, because i didn't want to get caught in the trap of talking to her a long time on the phone again. she was like, 'why are you trying to hang up on me?', so i had to stay on the line a little longer. our conversation is really weird. after doing some reading on male female dynamics yesterday, i realized that she is constantly testing me to guage her attraction/my social status. this is annoying how women do this but i guess it's cool because it indicates interest/is a 'buying signal'. we have very different conversation al styles - i'm soft spoken (trying to work on it), this girl is loud and loves to argue. i'm not sure if this combination will work out in the long term, but i'm willing to find out because she is HOT HOT HOT.

[PocoDiablo]

Good, here's some feedback for you to think about:

 

i made some chit chat and then asked her out within the first few minutes. i was like, 'when are we going out for coffee? give me a time and place'.

Bad move. Next time YOU need to tell her when and where. "Starbucks, 8:00, Tuesday night." is what you needed to say. Think "Take charge kind of guy" and make some decisions. You need to ask HER on the date, not force her to make the plans.

 

You failed that test. You lost a point.

 

we set up a date for next sunday, i wanted a 1 hour coffee date. she wanted me to meet her at a diner, then go with her to a flea market.

This was a test. You don't buy anyone dinner on a first date. Tell her "Sorry, I barely know you, so all you will get out of me is my wonderful presense, a great time, and a coffee." She could theoretically just want to go to dinner because she likes being taken out to fancy restaurants. Coffee? She wants to be with YOU and that is what you want to find out.

 

Flea market? "Maybe. Maybe *if* you behave." Let her know she's got to work for it. Besides, that's an opportunity for her to trick you into buying her something, same as going to the mall. I'd avoid it. Walk on the beach, by the lake, in the park? Sure!

 

then i tried to hang up, because i didn't want to get caught in the trap of talking to her a long time on the phone again. she was like, 'why are you trying to hang up on me?', so i had to stay on the line a little longer.

No you didn't. You should have said "Sorry, I have other plans and I just wanted to make a date so we could spend time together. Really, I have to go, so I will see you [time and place], okay? Great. Have a great nght. Bye."

 

She took control. Knock it off! She's testing you and you don't know it. You have to refuse her or say "No" to her demands AT LEAST ONCE. So far your 0 for 3. Have some backbone because one day you will need to tell her no for some reason, and you need to know if she can handle it.

 

Remember, you are testing her, too, to see if she is flexibile, reasonable, etc.

 

our conversation is really weird. after doing some reading on male female dynamics yesterday, i realized that she is constantly testing me to guage her attraction/my social status. this is annoying how women do this but i guess it's cool because it indicates interest/is a 'buying signal'. we have very different conversation al styles - i'm soft spoken (trying to work on it), this girl is loud and loves to argue.

So argue, and even if you KNOW you are wrong *refuse* to give in. It'll drive her mad, and you can have some fun with her trying to prove you wrong. Go for it! Be POLITE, cool, calm, collected, mature, and like a true gentleman. Do not lose your cool. Laugh, have fun with it, poke fun at her not being able to convince you. That kind of idea.

 

i'm not sure if this combination will work out in the long term, but i'm willing to find out because she is HOT HOT HOT.

Yeah, but besides the fact that she was born what does she have going for her?

 

She's controlling. She wants you to spend money on her (golddigger?) She is testing you (and you're doing okay which I am happy to say.)

 

Lemme give you a tip. Don't be a jerk or anything, but turn her down on something. Or tell her that "Your hair is very pretty, but it would look much better [up in a ponytail/down]." If she's so hot, she's used to guys falling all over her trying to get HER acceptance. Not this time. Let her know that you have standards and the only reason why you are going out with her is to see if she can meet them. Tell her she is on probation, and every time she does something bad she loses a point. Only if she does something good THREE TIMES will she *earn* a point. And then when she says something rude, tries to get you to buy something, blows you off, whatever ... you tell her "For shame, you just lost a/another point."

 

So ... if she lies, she loses a point. She smokes, she loses a point. She flirts with another guy while out with you, she loses TEN points. She tells you about her ex, she loses a point. She talks about the weather, she loses FIFTY points . Have a little fun with it, but let her know you're not a pushover like every other guy.

 

And poke fun at her, like you would with a bratty nine year old sister. If she whines that she wants something, ask her "Why? What do I get out of it? Look, if you buy ME a drink, I'll let you kiss me!" is an interesting line I've used before (it's a two-fold reward for you, and a two-fold reward for her [treating you good and getting to kiss you.]

 

There is so much to explain, you'll really need to read between the lines here, sorry. Those are some very high-level concepts, so think about them carefully and have fun. Relax. Be yourself. Don't get used and don't fail the tests she throws your way!

[nogame]

whoa. she just called me at work today and asked me to go to a wine tasting tonight. i told her no, i have plans.

 

thanks man. i appreciate all the advice, i need all the help i can get because i'm basically clueless about this kind of stuff.

So argue, and even if you KNOW you are wrong *refuse* to give in. It'll drive her mad, and you can have some fun with her trying to prove you wrong. Go for it! Be POLITE, cool, calm, collected, mature, and like a true gentleman. Do not lose your cool. Laugh, have fun with it, poke fun at her not being able to convince you. That kind of idea.

 

this seems important, because i'm pretty high strung and i notice that she really knows how to get me riled up. i really have to find a way to stay cool around her, and not let her get on my nerves too much. i realize that half the time she is not really mad about anything and is just high maintenance and loves to argue.

 

Yeah, but besides the fact that she was born what does she have going for her?

 

world travel, has lived in europe and asia, speaks many languages, highly cultured and educated, and a bigger cd collection than anyone i've ever seen. plus hot. if it wasn't for the high maintenance and attitude i'd have a hard time finding anything wrong with this woman.

 

She's controlling. She wants you to spend money on her (golddigger?)

 

 

definitely controlling. i don't generally like women like this. major drawback. my plan is to be a total smartass on sunday, and give her s*** whenever she tries to boss me around or something.

 

also - are those great danes? beautiful dogs. there's a guy in my building with a couple of really huge ones. he says they do well in an apartment because they sleep all day anyway.

[NJRon]

Did you have plans tonight? If so, cool. If not... get some. Did you make a solid date for later? Like "Soprry, I'm busy tonight... how about tuesday?" You mentioned Sunday.. you getting together then?

[nogame]

Did you have plans tonight? If so, cool. If not... get some. Did you make a solid date for later? Like "Soprry, I'm busy tonight... how about tuesday?" You mentioned Sunday.. you getting together then?

 

yeah, i told her i had to go to a meeting of my java users group -- but actually, i had to go to therapy.

 

yeah it's a solid date for sunday. this is like my first date in years (broke up recently w my ex). i'm totally rusty and probably not ready for this type of thing, but i really like this girl so i'm going to try to make it a good one.

[NJRon]

Righteous! Just make sure you show up on time

 

hehe ...

[annie24]

 

Lemme give you a tip. Don't be a jerk or anything, but turn her down on something. Or tell her that "Your hair is very pretty, but it would look much better [up in a ponytail/down]." If she's so hot, she's used to guys falling all over her trying to get HER acceptance. Not this time. Let her know that you have standards and the only reason why you are going out with her is to see if she can meet them. Tell her she is on probation, and every time she does something bad she loses a point. Only if she does something good THREE TIMES will she *earn* a point. And then when she says something rude, tries to get you to buy something, blows you off, whatever ... you tell her "For shame, you just lost a/another point."

 

/

 

Normally I agree with you - I agree with most of your other posts, but this would be a turnoff for me. Actually, it totally is. I don't like being critisized on the first date. Or like, ever. A guy can critisize my body if he's a personal trainer or has an amazing body. he can critisize my apartment if he is an interior designer. He can critisize my hair if he is a hair dresser. But, if he's just a regular guy, who is he to judge me???

 

But I've dated several guys who have made comments about my appearance or field of study or whatever, and I've just found them to be jerks.

 

From my point of view, I'm not going out for coffee with a guy so he can tell me I need to change my hair style. blah.

[keenan]

Amen, sister. I've been lurking. I like nearly everything Poco said except this. I gotta say, if a guy criticizes my hair on a first date I'm not going to feel challenged by him...I'm going to feel p*ssed.

 

MAAAYBE light teasing about a belt or a pair of shoes on a third date ("Hey, Han Solo called...he wants his belt back")...but only if it's clear that we like each other and he's not going to be some freaky potential abuser who gets off on trying to erode my self-esteem one water drop at a time.

 

IMO, the only way to use the sentence, "Your hair is very pretty, but it would look much better [up in a ponytail/down]" is to remove the words BUT, and MUCH BETTER. How about "Your hair is very pretty. It would look great in a ponytail." That way you've expressed a preference that is different from hers, but you haven't insulted her.

[PocoDiablo]

whoa. she just called me at work today and asked me to go to a wine tasting tonight. i told her no, i have plans.

VERY GOOD MOVE. Obviously you had plans, but you turned her down! Now she knows she can't control you. It levels the playing field.

 

i realize that half the time she is not really mad about anything and is just high maintenance and loves to argue.

Loves to PLAY is what you mean ... she's playing. Like foreplay. Only verbal.

 

world travel, has lived in europe and asia, speaks many languages, highly cultured and educated, and a bigger cd collection than anyone i've ever seen. plus hot. if it wasn't for the high maintenance and attitude i'd have a hard time finding anything wrong with this woman.

Those are not things she has going for her. Those are her history, her education, and things she bought. Is she kind, loyal, honest, sincere, funny, sexy, into you, etc? You need to judge her personality traits because those are what you are stuck with every moment you are with her.

 

Is she a nag? Is she mean to small animals? Is she rude to waiters or waitresses? Is she an alcoholic? Is she a CD thief? (Great line: "Geez, where did you steal all those from? " )

 

definitely controlling. i don't generally like women like this. major drawback. my plan is to be a total smartass on sunday, and give her s*** whenever she tries to boss me around or something.

So you're going to throw it right back at her. I bet she'll love it.

 

also - are those great danes? beautiful dogs. there's a guy in my building with a couple of really huge ones. he says they do well in an apartment because they sleep all day anyway.

Yeah, Danes. I got them because at the time I lived in an apartment and yes they sleep ALL day. More than cats! They weight 160 pounds each, and stand over 6' tall when they are up on their hind legs.

 

They are chick magnets, obviously. Well, people magnets really!

 

To give you an idea of how big the *little* one is ...

 

image removed

 

 

 

Did you make a solid date for later? Like "Soprry, I'm busy tonight... how about tuesday?"

I'd actually let HER make the counter-offer the judge her interest level. Since she seems so controlling it might be better to just say "Hey, this is when I have free time, you are welcome to hang out with me then. If you can't make it, then you'll have to try again some other time when I am free."

[PocoDiablo]

Lemme give you a tip. Don't be a jerk or anything, but turn her down on something. Or tell her that "Your hair is very pretty, but it would look much better [up in a ponytail/down]." If she's so hot, she's used to guys falling all over her trying to get HER acceptance. Not this time. Let her know that you have standards and the only reason why you are going out with her is to see if she can meet them. Tell her she is on probation, and every time she does something bad she loses a point. Only if she does something good THREE TIMES will she *earn* a point. And then when she says something rude, tries to get you to buy something, blows you off, whatever ... you tell her "For shame, you just lost a/another point."

Normally I agree with you - I agree with most of your other posts, but this would be a turnoff for me. Actually, it totally is. I don't like being critisized on the first date. Or like, ever. A guy can critisize my body if he's a personal trainer or has an amazing body. he can critisize my apartment if he is an interior designer. He can critisize my hair if he is a hair dresser. But, if he's just a regular guy, who is he to judge me???

 

But I've dated several guys who have made comments about my appearance or field of study or whatever, and I've just found them to be jerks.

 

From my point of view, I'm not going out for coffee with a guy so he can tell me I need to change my hair style. blah.

Yes, and I totally agree with your comment. This comment is probably a really BAD idea to use on a normal, happy, healthy woman. It should *ONLY* be used - sorry I did not mention this before - on a woman who is totally full of herself, stuck up, or otherwise thinks she is the hottest thing on the planet and God's gift to men.

 

Why?

 

Because ultra hot women are USED to every guy walking up and saying something like "Wow, you are so beautiful" or "You're gorgeous." or something similar. The problem is when you say something like that to someone who hears it every day, she will lump you into the collective pile of "guy." Yes, you are a "guy" like every other "guy" she has met.

 

Now if you pull this on a woman who is NOT stuck up, you're going to get the responses noted above by our fine female friends. Alternately, if you DO try to pull this off on a regular woman, you dang well better be able to be doing it as part of a joke, gag, story, whatever and it better be funny - no questions asked. Maybe suggest she get a mohawk or something ... as a JOKE.

 

I learned this many years ago. As I am sure you can see in my avatar, I have two very large dogs. I happened to live near a very upscale little neighborhood and I would walk my dogs through to the other end every weekend to get them a doggy biscuit and get myself some breakfast. Lemme tell you how many times I heard the EXACT SAME LINES from EVERY PERSON. After 22,000 times it gets really old. Here they are, in order of sheer stupidity and boredom:

 

Are those horses? (haha. Ugh.)

What kind of dogs are those? (Polish Chihuahua's)

Where's the saddles? (Only on Halloween)

How much for a pony ride? ($5)

How much do they eat? (Two small children per day)

Where do they sleep? (Anywhere they want, obviously.)

Are they friendly? If you are. [Note: HELLO?!??! Why would I bo so stupid to bring 300+ pounds of aggressive dogs out in public??? ]

Do they bite? (Only if you taste like hamburger.)

How do you give them a bath? (In the ... get this ... bathtub!)

Are they related? (Yes, they are both canines.)

Are they boys or girls? (You can't tell from here?)

 

I could go on, but the point is you have to be different than all the previous AVERAGE people who someone has talked to. I mean ... when someone said something to me like that I would ignore them. When asked me where I was from ... "Hey, she's not talking about the dogs! Something is different" would go through my head. I'd actually talk to her and find out more.

 

And THAT is who I went on dates with.

 

So ... be different. If you can't be different, at least say "So how many times does someone say to you 'Wow, you're so pretty?' each day? I'd guess ... at least ten, right?" And BAM now you're different. You're "In the know" at the very least.

 

I'm outta here, have a nice weekend folks!

[nogame]

Loves to PLAY is what you mean ... she's playing. Like foreplay. Only verbal.

 

very astute.

Those are not things she has going for her. Those are her history, her education, and things she bought. Is she kind, loyal, honest, sincere, funny, sexy, into you, etc? You need to judge her personality traits because those are what you are stuck with every moment you are with her.

 

Is she a nag? Is she mean to small animals? Is she rude to waiters or waitresses? Is she an alcoholic? Is she a CD thief? (Great line: "Geez, where did you steal all those from? " )

 

she's funny and sexy, as for the rest - we shall see...

Yeah, Danes. I got them because at the time I lived in an apartment and yes they sleep ALL day. More than cats! They weight 160 pounds each, and stand over 6' tall when they are up on their hind legs.

 

They are chick magnets, obviously. Well, people magnets really!

 

To give you an idea of how big the *little* one is ...

 

that thing is huge!

[Dating Coach]

That's far too much phone conversation for someone that you haven't met yet. What are you going to talk about? You've probably covered most of it already. You need to get to know someone in person and talk, because these phone conversations are FAR TOO IMPERSONAL. You want to get to know someone face to face where you can better build chemistry and learn about each other.

 

Use the phone to set up a date, it's not a place to have your date.

[nogame]

a few more questions:

 

-call her to confirm before the date or just show up and see if she comes?

 

-when you first meet her - shake hands, hug, kiss on cheek, or do nothing?

 

-is politics a good subject of conversation, and if not, what are some?

 

k thx

[StarSteel]

I'm going to give you a little piece of advice that (unless I accidentally missed) it seems that no one else has given you. Now, it's something that has been exploited in the 80's and early 90's in most child merchandise, so may have lost a bit of its charm, but here it is anyway:

 

BE YOURSELF.

 

Be natural. If you're gonna spend any substantial amount of time with this girl in the future, you're going to have to generally always act similar to the way you acted on your first date. Did that make sense? Possibly not... hmm...

 

If you act the way you normally act, and she appreciates it, then that means you guys are a good match. If you are yourself and it's a natural turn-off for her, why would you want to be with her anyway? It means she's not interested in who YOU are, only whatever show you put on.

 

That brings up one more point for me. If you're putting on a performance, you're naturally going to be very nervous and possibly very sweaty. Neither of these things are attractive for the vast majority of women out there. If, on the other hand, you are not making a performance but are instead being exactly who you are, then you will be less nervous about the whole encounter (though perhaps there'll still be a bit of anticipation, which is always fun).

 

Hope this helps a little. Good luck on Sunday.