first time asking for help...

[noelle8]

Hi. I'm brand new to this, and not sure how this works..I'm always the person everyone else goes to with their problems, not the other way around

I've been married to the same man for 20 yrs, we have 4 great kids, ages 11-21. We've been thru really good and bad times, but more bad times than good for the past few years. He's a good man, and a good father. He's been laid off for over a yr now, still making money but not 1/2 as much as he used to. I work fulltime now b/c he's out of work. I think he's gotten comfortable at home, with no ambition to do anything anymore. He's getting old before my eyes and I can't handle it! I am a very social person, and still a very attractive and vital woman. I take care of myself (he does NOT, the more I beg him to stop smoking or start exercising, the more he rebels). I want a better life for myself and my kids, and I don't see myself getting ahead with this man anymore. I've tried to tell him we should separate, he doesn't take me seriously. I am depressed and angry most of the time now, and I hate it! Of course my kids want the family to stay together. I hate that they see me so unhappy, and I hate that I have so much resentment and blame for this man. I've told him REPEATEDLY that we would be better off going our separate ways, he remains in denial](*,) and won't consider counseling.

Anybody out there have any words of wisdom? I would appreciate any advice.

tx

noelle

[melee18]

have you read "light his fire" by ellen kriedman - she targets married couples that have lost the spark. i really like her book and have found her advice to be appropriate for all kinds of relationships.

[ElektraHere]

I am not sure if I have the right answers but your husband might be in a depression. Like you said he hasnt worked in over a year and I know when i was out of work it takes a toll on you. He may think that he isn't "the man of the house" anymore. Not to sound archaic but men have a need to be the providers and when they are not able to they dont feel like the"man" anymore.

I am not saying that you should live with unhappiness no one should stay in something that they are unhappy with. If he wont condsider counseling perhaps getting him out of the house and doing something together. If you have the financial means join a gym together and you both can go before your work or after. To get the passion back in your relationship tell him if you do in fact join a gym promise to give him a rubdown afterwards or take a shower together. That would get any guy to want to go to the gym would get his endorphins going and his spirits to pick up. Ask if he wants to go and take a cooking class with you if he is into food and cooking. If he is unwilling to do anything to recapture your attentions or fix the marriage perhaps you will just have to take the steps to file a seperation.

[noelle8]

Thank you both for the advice. I'm willing to try anything! Ithink you'reright when u say he is depressed.

I'll keep u posted.

noelle

[daregveda]

wow...I read your post and was taken aback. I have been separated from my g/f of 13 years for the past month. She took our two kids and left, after an a 2-day argument. She had been harboring feelings of resentment towards me, and the reasons why? Because I was becoming like your husband.

 

I had been working a lot less and instead of finding employment or going back to school, I had been sitting around, playing on the computer, smoking too much and not helping with the house. I was gaining weight, getting more irratable and not really contributing anything to our household or family togetherness.

 

To tell you this hurts me. She had tried to talk to me about the slump I was in, and I blew her off...mainly because I didn't want to be reminded of what a deadbeat I was. The only good thing to say about me is that I was there to take care of the kids, and I milked that for all it was worth. And when she left me, I was crushed, but to be honest, not really shocked.

 

In less than a month, since she left, I have went back to college, worked out the financial aid to pay for it, got a better job, and started keeping up all the housework. Not just to make her want me back, but because I have to in case she never does. I don't eat when I'm stressed and the time I've spent running around getting things done has really paid off physically. I can look in the mirror and say I look a few years younger than I did just a few months ago. I still smoke, in greater amount to be honest, but that's only because of the constant worrying and thinking.

 

She still won't talk to me about us or allow any hope, she says that I should just move on. I'm not sure if she's waiting to see if I stick to my new routine, but I'm taking her at her word and moving on with the assumption that she doesn't love me anymore. It hurts like a bastard, but keeping busy to keep my mind off of things is just more motivation for me to take better care of myself. I'm not saying that you should just up and leave your husband, and I'm sure if you did, it would hurt you too. But I know for me, the mere threat probably wouldn't be enough to produce the same results in this amount of time.

 

As someone who has been there, I sympathize with him, too. It's hard to climb out of a self-destructive pattern like this, but if he loves you the way I love my g/f, you will see him grow wings and fly out.

[noelle8]

Thanks for your honesty, I'm really impressed! It takes a secure person to admit what you've said here, and I think you're 100% right.

Let's talk about you right now. It took your g/f leaving you before you started doing things for yourself--looking into college, all the self-improvement things you mentioned. You have to do these things for YOURSELF (which I suspect you are) and not b/c you think this is what will impress her and bring her back, or b/c someone else isn't gonna do it for you anymore. Once she sees you are a whole person, and responsible for your own happiness, you will become attractive to her once again. TRUST me, it will happen! Another thing, you are the father of her kids, and no one can replace your role there (that's mostly why I'm still in my marriage)

Love yourself, respect yourself, stop smoking and stay healthy--the rest will follow. I sense that things will work out for you, you come thru very sincere and committed to making things work with her (show her the post you replied to me!).

The secret to happiness, my friend, is to be content and comfortable with yourself--she'll come around (question might be, will you still want HER?)

 

I don't know what's down the road for me but I know we'll be ok. As long as my kids are happy, I'm happy too

thanks for sharing and take care,

noelle

[bcuzitwasfun]

Hi noelle8,

 

I have to ask you, do you still love him? Are you finding that you can provide for yourself and your kids without him? Now a days it is about money, but do you feel that he is in the "cat birds seat" and feels like as long as the kids are happy and involved he has nothing to worry about? If they are happy and provided for then there is no reason why you shouldn't be happy?

 

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not cutting him down in any way. I just wonder what you and the kids think from your posts. It seems that the kids know what's up and maybe what's in the future. I've found out first hand from my experience with a separation, falling out of love, and finally divorce that kids are smarter and more keen than most of us think. They know the deal.

 

My daughter (15 years old) wants us both (me and my ex wife) to take care of ourselves and look after her. She understands that life without true love is more miserable than fake love. Now after years of pain, trying to do things for the family, I realize that she is right.

 

Now, I can sense from your post you love him, you are just very very frustrated. It is ok to feel this way. It is also important for him to know that as well. He should realize that you are there for support but there is a line. How do you tell him? Straight up and be honest. Do not be afraid. Let him know that you love the children and him, but this relationship is not going to work as is. It takes two and it takes two to make an effort.

 

I'm not saying you should separate, I just think that you should consider it only because it is not healthy for anyone in the situation that you all seem to be in. Somebody has to take the ball and run with it. When you run with it, maybe he will follow and pick himself up and do better. If he doesn't, well, then it's time for you to live your life without him. You can never save somebody unless they want to save themselves. You can't help somebody unless they want to help themselves.

 

Best of luck to you. Let us know how things go.

 

bcuzitwasfun

[noelle8]

Hi bcuz--You have some great insight . Do I still love him? Yes, but I think it's more the love you have for a man b/c he is your children's father. It's not that romantic "in love" lust-y love, know what I mean? And god knows, I MISS that so much! I'm a Pisces, he's Capricorn (not a good match I am definintely repressed, I have gotten very good at burying "bad" feelings. I'm someone who finds it very sexy to be aware of one's own sensuality/attractiveness, but doesn't act on every attraction or impulse, know what I mean? Getting off track again.

My husband send me mixed messages. I have begged him to set goals, which he promises to meet, and then blows them off. I take this behavior as a message to me that he really doesn't want me, but doesn't want to be "that kind of man" who would leave his wife and kids. So, what I'm getting from this forum is that I have to be the one who takes that leap. And I wish I had the strength to, HONEST!!! I really think everyone would be better off! someone mentioned how damaging it is for kids to grow up in a house where parents don't love each other--THIS IS MY BIGGEST FEAR. I wish I knew for sure what is best for them! My instict tells me they need to see both mom and dad happy (together or not) for themselves to be happy.

But then they point out how horribly thier friends' parents' divorces are, and how unhappy their friends are growing up "broken."

I'm rambling now. I want to say thanks for the responses in here. I really appreciate the support, it helps more than I expected!

Take care

noelle

[bcuzitwasfun]

To me, both kinds of love you are talking about are very important in a relationship and in marriage. The lusty sexual love tends to become common, expected, and predictable in long term relationships and marriage. I think that is a common trait in life, but that is where strong communication works! You shouldn't bury bad feelings, you should be open and honest about your feelings with him.

 

What I've found that makes divorce hard on my daughter is her friends that still have parents that are together. They have a mom to go to with mom questions, and the have a dad to go to when they have dad questions. They have everyone at home and do not have to call, email or im a parent. You gotta admit, that is nice. Provides security.

 

I have also found from my experience, the longer you stay somewhere you really don't want to be the worse it gets. I made all the classic mistakes in my seperation to the point I wasn't even listening to my daughter. It got ugly and very nasty for us all. Now that it has been years later, and everything has been settled, everybody gets along. My ex loves my daughter and I love my daughter. That in the end is what really counts. It was best for us all to divorce and especially for my daughter.

 

Best of luck to you.

Thanks

bcuzitwasfun

[dishrag]

It sounds like he's depressed but if you try to diagnose him and ask him to get help, he probably won't and will keep distancing himself. If you can find a counsellor that specializes in relationships, start going by yourself. He or she can coach you on how to handle him. He's still there so there are steps that can be taken in order to get him to recognize your needs, you just can't be negative and demanding.

 

Sometimes it takes a lot of self-sacrifice just to try to get him turned around and it sounds like that's what you want him to do. You may or may not be willing to do this. I would see a counsellor by yourself and if that counsellor wants him to come along, then they can probably give you tips to coax him to coming.

[NJRon]

He's ignoring all of the signs. Soon, you will just give up and become entirely apathetic toward the whole thing. It is then that he will sense something is seriously wrong and, unless he is completely blind, will start to make improvements. But, by then, it will be too late.

 

Nagging, pressuring, etc. That shows you still care enough to fight for the relationship. When you start acting like you *don't* care about the relationship, that's when the wake-up call hits.

[noelle8]

Thanks to all of you good people for caring to respond. I'm taking pieces of wisdom form all of you To the last poster, yes, I'm becoming apathetic and indifferent already. When things get really unbearable, he tends to do a 360 turnaround and will be really good for a short while (gifts, nice gestures, etc). It gives me the teeniest bit of hope until things get back to "normal" and we're either fighting again or worse, almost completely ignoring each other. Like a "honeymoon cycle."

He's a good guy, and he is happy with very little in life, and I'm not knocking him for that--I think that's great and I even envy him for his philosophy on life.

But I need more! I should mention this--We did break up once, for a whole summer. It was my fault, b/c I got involved with someone on the net (which I broke off before we actually met), and got very serious. My husband left me and the kids, at first I didn't care, but after I realized he was serious, and I'd hear from our own kids that he had a "friend" (yes, female), I became VERY jealous. I begged him to come back, he wouldn't at first, and it was hell for me. I realized how much I loved and needed him, NOTHING ELSE MATTERED. Slowly, we started to "date" again, and he came back, on HIS terms. Later, he told me he had to teach me a lesson, b/c I had humiliated him (esp in front of our kids) with this internet relationship.

So, am I pushing him away again to test him? Or do I want out? I tend to sabatoge myself and my happiness, and haven't learned how to stop. You're right, I think I should get counseling w/o him, and see where it goes.

The last counselor I saw (years ago) encouraged me to leave!! We'll see what happens I guess.

Life goes on...thanks for the "food for thought."

noelle

[NJRon]

Well, if the next one encourages you to leave, perhaps you should tell your husband that and see if it prompts *him* to visit the counselor.

[bcuzitwasfun]

Again this was my situation and the way I see it.....

 

He sounds like a good guy! It seems from your posts that he loves the kids. It seems that he doesn't desire what you want in a happy marrage and relationship. From your post, it seems that you want to be loved lilke you love. Treated like you deserve to be treated. This is a normal feeling. There is nothing wrong with this. Unless they can't deliver.....

 

My concern is the kids. Soon if not allready they will wonder whats up with

Dad(?). Why is he always laying around? Why does he seem sick? Why don't you and him get along like you use to? What's going to happen?

 

When I heard the last question, I realized what I was doing and that it wasn't fair to our daughter or anyone else. It should not have gone that far. While you are married, and you went as far as thinking about an affair that is a sign to me. You are searching for that lost hole in your heart and looking for somebody or something to fill it.

 

I think deep down inside you want out. And that is ok. Just make sure that the way out is done cleanly, quickly and with respect. Don't have an affair while everyone thinks that everything is "oK". It isn't worth it. Come out with your feelings and let everyone know. It is so much easier on the kids and yourself, and even your husband. Everyone keeps respect and realizes that this is the best thing.

 

Again this is my opinion based on my situation.

 

Let us know how it goes.

Thanks

bcuzitwasfun

[daregveda]

It's been a month since she left...I think she as well has given up, become apethetic and indifferent. She knows I'm now a full-time student/full-time employee, but it seems to make no difference to her. Every once in a while, she'll ask if I need anything, but only while calling me about the girls or picking them up. Noelle, you still seem to love him, but I'm not getting one shred of evidence she still feels the same for me. A week into my new job, 2 in school, and I've been giving her the space she told me she needed. Every since the night she took back her word and said that we were not going to try to work things out, I've made every effort to show her I'm alive and moving on with my life. And still...nothing. I saw her both yesterday and today...nothing.

[noelle8]

So how are you doing with the new fulltime job and school? Sounds like you are keeping busy with little time for anything else, which can be a good thing, for now. Does she work or is she home with your little girls?

Yes, I still love my husband. I suspect I always will, even if we split up. I will never have the same kind of connection with another human being as I do with my kids' father. And neither will your g/f, even if (I repeat, IF) she were to have another child with someone else. She had her firstborn with you, correct? She loves you. Just don't need her for anything right now. Don't call her unless it involves the kids (and be careful of that slippery slope!)

A month may feel like an eternity to you but it's not that long my friend. She needs to see for herself that you are committed to changing your life, and that takes time.

Go out with people, are you making friends at work? Join an inexpensive gym, or study at a really trendy coffee house and meet people. The one thing that always gets me thru any rough times, whether at home or at work, is running 3-4 miles EVERY day no matter what! It's empowering. It's like medication for me, keeps me emotionally stable. It' s hard to stick to in the beginning, but now after 5 years, I look forward to it most days. Just get your ipod (no sad love songs) and go!!!

I know the last thing on your mind is dating, b/c you love this woman so much, but you need to show her she is not the center of your world. Not to say that you aren't there for her or for the girls, she knows that you are.

I'm serious about the gym, try it! Especially if your stressed out, with no spare time. It will change your life.

Hope things get better for you --

take care

noelle

[daregveda]

I've actually considered dating, even going so far as talking to a girl a few times on the phone recently. She's 6 yrs. younger than me and my g/f, very cute, funny and intelligent. But after talking to a friend the other night, I decided it's ptobably not the best idea. At least not if my g/f finds out. Something I neglected to mention was the fact that the night she left, I had accused her of cheating on me, and did so in such a way that was extremely ugly. The things I said to her were totally outside of my character, I had never talked to her like that before. She has accused me of cheating on her in the past, and I still remember how bad it hurt to have her question my loyalty. Combine that with the pure nastiness of the things I said to her and the fact that she was for all intents and purposes taking care of me...I never want to hurt her again. I don't know that she ever wants to be with me again, but even still, dating another girl this soon would probably hurt her (she's always been the jealous type). Even if she never comes back to me, I don't want to cause her any more pain.

 

School is good, the job is awesome...sick money for nothing more than carrying food and smiling big. Meeting a lot of cool ppl, too.

[blender]

Noelle, you sound like so many women at this point in a marriage, kids, loss of work, wieght gain, depression... yeah, it happens to so many... You are vital and ambitious, I can tell.

 

You must remember that it all starts with YOU... you are powerless over him or how he feels, please try to remember this... have you ever read anything like on the website "tears and healing" about detaching... perhaps you can take a look, but in a nut shell... If you just concentrate on your own gracefulness, and put down the magnifying glass on him and pick up the mirror... you will see that if you just work on you, even if it's secretly to eventually leave the marriage..or hang in there... You have to take care of YOU first... Work on your own happiness, you can only

SHARE happiness in life not actually provide it for another person... Trying to talk him into going to the gym or quiting smoking is a loving thing for you to do..but if he doesn't listen then just stop saying it.. stop focusing on what he is or is not doing and take care of you and your kids....

 

You can simply tell him YOUR truth, not tell him what he 'should" or "should not" be doing, or feeling. Let him know... say, "I love you, I'm worried about you and I'm here for you if you want to talk or decide you'd like to make a move towards a better life for us".. then leave it alone, through your actions and words, simply stop yourself when you want to tell him what he "should" be doing.. and then see if he picks up the ball himself.. have you tried this approach yet...

 

If and when you change your "reaction" to him, is the only time you will see if he will change his own "actions" regarding himself... the old pattern of he does this, I say that.. is not working.. so try telling him how you feel, and not that you think you should be separated, or you should both go to therapy, you've said that... now go to therapy on your own for YOU.... and start making a plan for yourself and your children, and only give him details when you are ready to do so and are ready to act on them...

 

Having the same ol words about what's wrong with the marriage doesn't work for anyone, when we 'wait" for someone else to change we simply tread water.. the change starts with YOU and your reaction to him... change your reaction.... you'll see he will then be forced to change his... After all you'll be humming a different tune, one he can not fall into a pattern of reacting to, because it is new...

[Danny H]

Noelle8 you could almost be my wife.

 

I didn't listen to what was being said to me with the result that I lost her, and now she has gone I realise how Blinkered I was.

 

If I could say one thing to your hubby it is please open your eyes before it is to late.

 

You obviously still care for eachother, But it is possible your husband really can't see what is going on, I think we are a bit dim like that sometimes.

 

 

Dan

[noelle8]

Are u a waiter? I think I read somewhere u just got a cat too? That's great!

Now, invite one of the cute servers to your place to meet your cat and watch the DVD "Waiting" (hilarious). You're definitely on your way

noelle

[noelle8]

Noelle8 you could almost be my wife.

 

I didn't listen to what was being said to me with the result that I lost her, and now she has gone I realise how Blinkered I was.

 

If I could say one thing to your hubby it is please open your eyes before it is to late.

 

You obviously still care for eachother, But it is possible your husband really can't see what is going on, I think we are a bit dim like that sometimes.

 

 

Dan

Hi Dan,

Thanks for sharing that, it helps I admire you for admitting what you did. Unfortunately, in my experience, most men are like you and don't realize what's happening until it's too late. The really important thing here is that you have learned from this and you want to help prevent another from making the same mistakes. I have my good days. Yes, we care for each other, but I need "magic", you know what I mean? Sometimes I think I might need too much, that my expectations are too high, but we all need to be who we really are, right?

I hope things have worked out for u since your wife left. Are u English? How are things where u live?

take care

noelle

[daregveda]

An update since the last time I posted on this thread. She picked up the girls last night, which marked the sixth week of our break up. I asked her if she misses me and she looked me right in the eye and said no. She said she doesn't feel the same way about me anymore and she hasn't for a long time.

 

She's driving to virginia this weekend to meet an old guy "friend" who moved away before she met me. Apparently he heard the news of our breakup from another of her old friends and jumped at the chance to contact her. She was quick to assure me that they were only friends and that she was only driving down to see virginia and visit him. She's not taking the kids, so I know that something will happen between the two of them.

 

I'm no longer waiting for her...she told me not to. I will continue to work hard and now that I know where we stand, I'll be looking for someone new.

[noelle8]

I'm sorry to hear that. She doesn't miss you so let her go, don't waste any more energy on something that's gone.

You are getting stronger though, do you realize that? If it's any consolation, I envy you! I am having a really bad couple of days and I wish I was divorced and on my own. There are too many interesting and fun people and things to do out there in the world. I am being held back because of my loyalty to my kids (and not being loyal to myself). You're lucky, my friend--men have it so easy!

Next, you will be meeting someone, if you haven't already. My advice is to stay single for awhile and get comfortable with yourself before getting into a relationship. Enjoy being unattached for awhile.

take care

noelle

[daregveda]

I'm really not as strong as all that I'm afraid. I had all day to think about the drive to virginia thing, and let's just say I may have jumped the gun...and that's why it was probably easy for her to say that she doesn't miss me. Last week, two nights in a row after midnight, she sent picture messages of our baby to my phone. She used to talk about this ronnie guy a lot, telling me stories of her and her sister and their two other female friends and him getting into sh1t together. He still talks to the two other girls and I'm pretty sure she told me once that he's married.

 

Point is, she told me She didn't miss me after I showed concern about her seeing this guy. My jealous outburst that led to her leaving probably relived itself in her mind a little right then. I'm going to have a little faith in her on this one. She didn't even have to tell me she was going there, she could have easily lied as opposed to having to explain it. Even if she were to go down there and sleep with him a few hours after not seeing him for over a dozen years...let's face it, I'd never know. So it wouldn't hurt me at all.

[daregveda]

I also forgot to mention that last night I when she came, I was wearing nothing but a pair of shorts. When she left me, I had love handles and a gut, but six weeks of running my @ss off, being to depressed to eat and doing hammer curls while studying have left me looking...well, pretty damn good naked. I noticed that even while she was telling me there's no hope "for now", not to wait for her "for now", her eyes were drawn to my waist and chest a few times.