Need to talk.

[kitten]

(Caveat: This is long. You've been warned.)

 

I'm 26 and have been seeing this girl for a little over two months now. In the beginning, things were fantastic, and showed no signs of stopping.

 

She was the one who approached me, and when we started dating, I'd get all kinds of little signs that she cared about me. She'd call all the time -- not every day, but almost -- sometimes just to say things like "I'm thinking about you," or "I just wanted to hear your voice." Maybe cliche, but it brightened my day every time.

 

We'd go out a lot, and when we did, she'd always be holding my hand, or making me sit on the same side of the booth as her. Sometimes she'd go out with her friends, and just as I'd resigned myself to an evening at home, she'd call and ask if I wanted to come to whatever bar or restaurant, so she could show me off and meet everyone. She had no qualms about hugging and kissing in public, and in private, she'd talk about how crazy she was for me, how happy I've made her in the time we've been together, and, well, in general it was just obvious that she loved being with me, as much as I with her.

 

But lately, maybe in the past two or three weeks, it seems like something has changed, and it's bothering me. A lot.

 

These days, she's busy -- got a new job, has at least one show to rehearse for, and so on. I can understand being busy and not getting to spend time with people; it happens, right?

 

But what bothers me is that she doesn't seem to care that we hardly see each other anymore. Lately, it seems like I'm the one making all the phone calls, and half the time, she doesn't answer, or doesn't call me back when she sees I've called -- if I call again later she'll usually pick up. The few times we do get to see each other, I feel like she doesn't care that I'm there -- like all those "little things" have stopped, and she's just going through the motions of being my girlfriend, without meaning behind it.

 

Sometimes I'll drive to her house in the middle of the night to leave little presents on her car. Usually nothing big -- a rose, or a little card I've made, or something. The last time I did that was maybe two weeks ago, and she didn't comment on it when I talked to her next.

 

It's kind of ironic, because the last girl I dated eventually broke up with me, and afterwards, she told me that it was because I was being distant, not putting in any effort, she was the one making all the plans and phone calls, etc. And it was true, but I remember wishing she'd have told me, because I could have done something about it -- I never realised she felt that way.

 

Now here I am, with the same complaints about the current girl. I don't know if it's all in my head, or because she really is busy, or has she lost interest, or (god forbid) she's met someone else. I just don't know, and confusion kills me.

 

And then, other times, she says things that make me think I'm being an idiot. She'll apologize for "being scarce these days" (she's said that), or complain to me about how much it sucks that she's always busy (but does it suck because she's tired, or because she wishes she had more time for us?). A few days ago, I went to her house and we watched a movie for a bit, and it seemed like she didn't care that I was there, until she kissed me and told me that's what I should have done when I walked in the door, for not seeing her in so long. And in these moments, I feel ridiculous for doubting.

 

Then the doubt comes back after a few days of not hearing from her, or getting more excuses about work and such.

 

Some say I should stop calling her for a while -- let her make an effort, and if she doesn't, well, there's my answer. I don't like that, though. Seems petty and childish and doesn't give any answers.

 

Others say I should sit down with her and talk it out. I like that better, but I don't know how to express these concerns without coming off as whiny, or demanding, or like a cat that wants attention and keeps pushing its head into your ankles until you pet it. If this is all because she's just busy, then I don't want to look like a jerk for griping.

 

I do have trust issues. I trust blindly until something happens, and then I get into the sort of mood I'm in now, the mood you're reading. That "something" isn't always concrete -- in fact, in this situation, it's pretty abstract -- but once it's there, it's there.

 

At the same time, I really do believe that most problems can be resolved by communication. In this case, though, it's a matter of, how to tell her my feelings without sounding petty and whiny and demanding?

 

Add all this to the fact that she's so hard to get ahold of these days that I don't even know when I can sit down and talk to her. Friday night, actually, I left her a message asking her to call me because I wanted to talk, and though we spoke on Saturday (I called her), she didn't mention the message, didn't seem concerned, and note that I had to call her, not vice versa. I dunno -- if someone I cared about called me late at night, sounding despondant, and said "I'd like to talk to you," I'd be pretty concerned.

 

So what do you think? Should I call her and explain that something is bothering me and I really need to talk to her? Should I just wait for the next time we see each other (whenever that'll be!) and try to bring it up? Either way, how do I explain all this without coming off like a jerk or a clingy attention-needer? Maybe write her a letter? Heck, maybe print this out and give it to her? I don't know.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. These are confusing times.

[Dregnought]

First of all, these forums are based of bbcode. not html, though the content you are reading now is. just use normal quotes.

 

Talk to her. Directly. Tell her what u are feeling. If she really does care, she will do something about it. If not, then you will know.

[registered]

Others say I should sit down with her and talk it out. I like that better, but I don't know how to express these concerns without coming off as whiny, or demanding, or like a cat that wants attention and keeps pushing its head into your ankles until you pet it. If this is all because she's just busy, then I don't want to look like a jerk for griping.

This is best in my opinion. You won't sound whiny.

Look at it this way, you will be showing her that you want the relationship to work and so you obviously like her a lot.

Just tell her that you wish you could spend more time together, and quality time - and if that isn't possible you just have to keep the relationship as strong as possible, maybe by accepting that things have to be done a little differently. Tell her that she seems distant and you just want to be as close to her as possible, if that is possible.

Don't say it has to be this way or that, but explain that it would be good if it was this way or that. Also, when talking to her I wouldn't tell her to return your calls...that would be whiny and too much. Hopefully she would just start to do this.

 

It sounds like your trust issues are not doing you any favours...I mean like how she kissed you and told you that's what you should have done when you walked in the door, for not seeing her in so long.

If this issue is causing you to behave differently too then you must address it.

If you feel distant then she probably does too, even if it is her schedule that causes it.

She probably needs you to be more affectionate when you meet so she won't feel that way.

 

I don't think she is distant from you - it just seems that way. Don't tell her you feel distant from her, just let her know that you wish things could be more like they were.

 

I'd like to tell her in person, it's always the best way. But if that isn't possible then it just isn't.

 

I think that if you are acting simply in the interest of the relationship then that has to be good doesn't it?

Don't demand anything of her or beg for anything or anything like that.

Just tell her how it is and how you would like it to be.

 

That's what I would do anyway.

[kitten]

Don't say it has to be this way or that, but explain that it would be good if it was this way or that. Also, when talking to her I wouldn't tell her to return your calls...that would be whiny and too much. Hopefully she would just start to do this.

Oh, that's already something I knew -- that's just what I was trying to avoid. I definitely don't want to sound demanding, like she has to do this or that. But at the same time, I guess I want to tell her all those little things she used to do and how I miss them.

It sounds like your trust issues are not doing you any favours...I mean like how she kissed you and told you that's what you should have done when you walked in the door, for not seeing her in so long.

If this issue is causing you to behave differently too then you must address it.

You know, that's an interesting point. Looking back, I think I've sounded pretty dejected when I've spoken on the phone to her the past few days. It's tough keeping emotion out of your voice. And, I have to admit that the past couple of times we've seen each other, there's been that part of me that was watching for signs, or wondering what she was thinking, looking for any kind of clue. Maybe that 'is this going to work?' mental mode is carrying over into my actions somehow.

 

The childish reaction here is 'but I didn't start it', that is to say, I may have been acting a bit differently because I was all worried about things, whereas if things were fine I'd continue acting fine. But, maybe the truth is that it was a cycle -- I read too much into things at first, got worried, acted different, she picked up on that, acted differently herself, I took that as a bad sign.. etc.

 

Still, the only way I'll know is to talk to her. I still think being direct, as you said, is the way to go. But in addition to my whole dilemma of how to say these things, I also have a problem figuring out which parts to leave in, and which parts to omit. I was fully prepared to bring up the phone call issue -- not in an accusatory way, but just to mention that it always brightened my day when she'd call at random and tell me sweet things, and she doesn't anymore.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, I have trouble deciding how much to say, and which parts are best left unsaid. For example, if I'm telling her that I feel sort of neglected, or like she doesn't care, she'll want to know why, or what she did to make me feel that way. And then what? Do I sit there and list a bunch of things she used to do that were sweet and affectionate? That seems.. dumb, somehow. But if I don't tell her, she won't know what my problem is other than a vague complaint about 'feeling distant'.

 

Thanks for the response. I hope to hear from others about this, too.

 

And one more thing, to the guy who mentioned bbcode vs HTML -- I was using standard quotes. I have no idea why they were interpreted that way. But that's really not at the top of my list of things to be concerned about right now anyway.

[mo]

Ooh ghosh - exactly like my situation, see my thread/post in "break up" I decided to break-up with this type of friendship after four long years of begging. I'm sure we can not make someone to love you even if you give her/him the whole world - never!! Just lend a gun wind it-up and shoot your foots. I mean me and you..

[PocoDiablo]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and make my point first: You want to know why she is pulling back? It's because you are boring her.

 

Now please allow me to go over what you said and pull this all together so you can see why I might think that. And, of course, I could be wrong, so don't get too flustered!

 

(Caveat: This is long. You've been warned.)

Boooring. (Sorry, I had to.)

 

I'm 26 and have been seeing this girl for a little over two months now. In the beginning, things were fantastic, and showed no signs of stopping.

 

She was the one who approached me, and when we started dating, I'd get all kinds of little signs that she cared about me. She'd call all the time -- not every day, but almost -- sometimes just to say things like "I'm thinking about you," or "I just wanted to hear your voice." Maybe cliche, but it brightened my day every time.

This is HUGE. Her interest in you is a major factor of a quality long term relationship. Whatever you were doing - sounds like you were somewhat hard to get ahold of - was perfect. You were not calling her too much, not smothering her, you were just being yourself. With any luck when you spoke on the phone you kept it short, to the point, and were flirty/funny and used the phone to set up dates.

 

We'd go out a lot, and when we did, she'd always be holding my hand, or making me sit on the same side of the booth as her. Sometimes she'd go out with her friends, and just as I'd resigned myself to an evening at home, she'd call and ask if I wanted to come to whatever bar or restaurant, so she could show me off and meet everyone. She had no qualms about hugging and kissing in public, and in private, she'd talk about how crazy she was for me, how happy I've made her in the time we've been together, and, well, in general it was just obvious that she loved being with me, as much as I with her.

All very good signs as well. Please take the time to think back about what you were doing - or were not doing - that kept her interest in you piqued.

 

But lately, maybe in the past two or three weeks, it seems like something has changed, and it's bothering me. A lot.

Uh-oh, and I bet your mood has changed as well, become more worrisome, more sullen, and depressing. And I bet you have started to reach out to her trying to "fix" it, is that possible?

 

These days, she's busy -- got a new job, has at least one show to rehearse for, and so on. I can understand being busy and not getting to spend time with people; it happens, right?

Yes and no. Why not come by AFTER work? Spend the night? Go for dinner? She's got to eat sometime, right? These are excuses she is making which, in my opinion, are telling a guy that things are not going right. You've got two options here - fix it or leave.

 

But what bothers me is that she doesn't seem to care that we hardly see each other anymore. Lately, it seems like I'm the one making all the phone calls

So your behavior HAS changed. Now you are chasing her down...

 

and half the time, she doesn't answer, or doesn't call me back when she sees I've called

She's avoiding you? Call LESS, not more.

 

-- if I call again later she'll usually pick up.

Oops. Why'd you call again? She KNOWS you called, let her call you back. If you leave a message, make it VERY brief - "This is Matt, call me back" with a smile in your voice. Hang up. Shut up. Then go out of the house and hang out with some other friends. You're acting desperate if you sit by the phone waiting for her to call and I would put money on her not liking it.

 

The few times we do get to see each other, I feel like she doesn't care that I'm there -- like all those "little things" have stopped, and she's just going through the motions of being my girlfriend, without meaning behind it.

So what are some of the things she did, does, and says? Clue us in a little.

 

Sometimes I'll drive to her house in the middle of the night to leave little presents on her car. Usually nothing big -- a rose, or a little card I've made, or something. The last time I did that was maybe two weeks ago, and she didn't comment on it when I talked to her next.

Um, yeah, that's downright SCARY. That is what a stalker does. Don't do that again. And, quite frankly, at this stage of where you are do NOT buy her anything else and do NOT send her any more "heartfelt" gifts like cards, flowers, etc. Slow down a little, reign in the emotional stuff.

 

It's kind of ironic, because the last girl I dated eventually broke up with me, and afterwards, she told me that it was because I was being distant, not putting in any effort, she was the one making all the plans and phone calls, etc. And it was true, but I remember wishing she'd have told me, because I could have done something about it -- I never realised she felt that way.

Yeah, but now you are over-doing it. You've probably got to find the middle ground, the happy medium.

 

Now here I am, with the same complaints about the current girl. I don't know if it's all in my head, or because she really is busy, or has she lost interest, or (god forbid) she's met someone else. I just don't know, and confusion kills me.

Actions speak louder than words. If a woman loses interest in you, in MY experience it is because you have done something that is boring, overbearing, lacks self control, lacks self confidence, or is plain not challenging. In a word, you have to be mature but like you have never been before.

 

And then, other times, she says things that make me think I'm being an idiot. She'll apologize for "being scarce these days" (she's said that)

So here is your reponse: "Yeah, and what are you going to do to make it up to me?" then shut up and wait for her to make an offer. Don't give her any ideas, go for a kiss at the least, and a home made dinner, backrub, etc., at the most. No money items.

 

or complain to me about how much it sucks that she's always busy (but does it suck because she's tired, or because she wishes she had more time for us?)

So here is your response: "So why don't we plan on going to the park this weekend and have a picnic and sit in the sun and kill ants for a few hours?"

 

A few days ago, I went to her house and we watched a movie for a bit, and it seemed like she didn't care that I was there, until she kissed me and told me that's what I should have done when I walked in the door, for not seeing her in so long. And in these moments, I feel ridiculous for doubting.

You treated her like a brother. When was the last time you put your arms around her, held her in your arms and said something like "You know what? You're a great woman and I really enjoy having you around." Then kiss her, hug her for a little bit, then go off to do whatever you were doing.

 

Then the doubt comes back after a few days of not hearing from her, or getting more excuses about work and such.

When you get an excuse, you tell her "Hey, that's okay, but now you owe me one. When you figure out how you are going to make it up to me, call me and let me know." That should be said with a flirt-like voice. It should be light hearted, it should be fun. Again, a kiss at the least, dinner at the most kind of idea. Make her realize that she cannot just take you for granted.

 

Some say I should stop calling her for a while -- let her make an effort, and if she doesn't, well, there's my answer. I don't like that, though. Seems petty and childish and doesn't give any answers.

Actually, that advice is VERY good. I don't know who is telling you that, but they seem to have that dead on. The reason why you would do this is to judge her interest level in you. This is very important to ME, and I believe that you should only date someone who likes you. If they like you, actions speak louder than words, they will call you. It may seem like a game, but seeing as how you are confused it's because you do not understand why someone would do that. She uses contact with you to let you know how she feels about you, and seeing as how you are confused about everything that is going on it occurs to me that maybe you need to take some more advice from that friend!

 

Others say I should sit down with her and talk it out. I like that better, but I don't know how to express these concerns without coming off as whiny, or demanding, or like a cat that wants attention and keeps pushing its head into your ankles until you pet it. If this is all because she's just busy, then I don't want to look like a jerk for griping.

Okay, I think this is the WORST possible idea. Here you're going on two months of dating her and you want to jump into therapy with her? How BORING. Did I mention this before? Look, boring her to death is going to drive her even further away. You need to be unpredictable, fun to be with, and just plain YOURSELF. If you act like a needy child looking for approval from his mother, she's going to be turned off. She wants a mature adult who knows what he wants, knows how to get it, and knows that he needs to be treated well or he's going to go elsewhere. By talking it out with her at this point you are telling her that you are afraid to lose her (desperate), boring (ugh), and immature in relationships. If she wants to talk about depressing stuff, let her do that with her friends or family, not with you.

 

The exception is of course for something VERY serious, but you're about to make this your daily conversation. BAD MOVE in my opinion.

 

You need to show her how you feel about her without saying it. You need to make plans to go on a hike, or go for a drink and chat and flirt, take her to a rose garden (arboreteum [sp]) or some musuem and have a good time. Do something UNPREDICTABLE and exciting. Just don't spend a lot of money, and don't stick it on the hood of her car in the middle of the night like a stalker!

 

I do have trust issues. I trust blindly until something happens, and then I get into the sort of mood I'm in now, the mood you're reading. That "something" isn't always concrete -- in fact, in this situation, it's pretty abstract -- but once it's there, it's there.

Of course you do, but you are over-doing it now. You should have been paying attention from the beginning, and now that it is almost too late you're just starting to wonder what is going on. She's about to dump you and you don't even know why.

 

At the same time, I really do believe that most problems can be resolved by communication. In this case, though, it's a matter of, how to tell her my feelings without sounding petty and whiny and demanding?

Non-verbal would be better. Remember what I said about the hug? What is talking about how boring you are going to do? "Honey, I know I am boring you or upsetting you somehow. Instead of going to a museum today, let's talk about how I am boring you and upsetting you for the next hour. I know it's boring and will probably upset you, but I want to bore you and upset you so you understand that I am a boring and upsetting kind of guy." Instead of flirting and being the guy you WERE you are crashing and burning.

 

Add all this to the fact that she's so hard to get ahold of these days that I don't even know when I can sit down and talk to her. Friday night, actually, I left her a message asking her to call me because I wanted to talk

I'd never call you back if you left that on MY voice mail. What were you thinking????

 

Next time you call her on a FRIDAY NIGHT you need to day "I want to go play some pool and have some drinks. Call me and if I'm still her you can come along." Now she has to get her act in gear to be with you doing something fun. Then GO OUT and play pool and have some drinks, with or without her.

 

and though we spoke on Saturday (I called her), she didn't mention the message

As in "please, please, please don't bring it up and bore me to death on the phone"? Maybe?

 

didn't seem concerned, and note that I had to call her, not vice versa. I dunno -- if someone I cared about called me late at night, sounding despondant, and said "I'd like to talk to you," I'd be pretty concerned.

Yeah, but you do it too much. This is not the first time, is it? Are you doing this every other day? You're acting like a child who needs mother to soothe him. While she may want kids some day, she does not want to DATE a kid, right? So pick yourself up and act like a man who likes to go on dates and have fun like adults do!

 

So what do you think? Should I call her and explain that something is bothering me and I really need to talk to her?

Sure, if you want to run her off even more. NO. Do not do that. Invite her out on a date! No more depressing talk! Brush your teeth! Stand up straight! (Bark, bark, bark, sorry about that!)

 

Should I just wait for the next time we see each other (whenever that'll be!) and try to bring it up? Either way, how do I explain all this without coming off like a jerk or a clingy attention-needer? Maybe write her a letter? Heck, maybe print this out and give it to her? I don't know.

I can absolutely guarantee that if you write her a long winded depressing piece of garbage over emotional letter she will pretty much DUMP YOU. She is not your therapist, why in the world would you want to dump all this on her? If you want to be sad or upset, then you need to talk to your friends, you family, whoever, but NOT the woman who you need to make happy. The point of venting to people is so you can get it out of your system and be GOOD to the people you love.

 

Right?

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. These are confusing times.

Okay, I am sorry if I come off as really harsh, but it's only because I have done the exact same thing as you are doing for YEARS. I scared all women away. I actually had one girl RUN from me after 10 minutes of a date. I scared her away by being too serious, talking about cars, computers, sex, my ex's, guns, whatever it was - it was SERIOUS and depressing.

 

Women don't want that! They want a guy to flirt with them, non-verbally show her how you like her, give her TINY compliments like "You look very nice today" or "Hey, you got your nails done - they look nice." as opposed to telling her hot sexy or hot she is (compliment what she DID not her body.) Compliment effort, basically, and DON'T over do it. Go easy on compliments or they will come accross as insincere, like you are trying to trick her into liking you.

 

Basically, in a nutshell, I think you need to slow down, cheer up, and be more of a independent man. Call her ONLY ONCE and wait for her to return your call. Keep phone coversations SHORT and use the phone ONLY to ask her out on a date.

 

Does this sound about right? What do you think?

[Mrocza]

I totally agree with PocoDiablo.

 

If the circumstances were different (ie, you not trying to get her attention, calling her numerous times a day, acting the way you are, no offence) then I would totally recommend talking to her about it.

 

But you've tried talking. She doesn't want to listen. You're showing her you're sweet. She doesn't care. You're making the effort. She isn't.

 

If you want her to appreciate you and wake up and smell the coffee you need to let her know that you're not going to be waiting around, by the phone (or her car, mid-night) for her to figure out what she wants.

 

Things were great in the beginning. You did nothing to change that. The change was on her side, and the result was the change on your side.

 

Do. Not. Smother. Her. Trust me, if there's one thing to really get a girl running in the other direction it's smothering. Give her that space. You've put in the effort, you've tried. Now get on with your life. You've shown you were the attentive boyfriend, let her realize the lack of action on her part when you start having a fun life again.

 

If or when you talk to her, do not complain. You are unaffected. Yes, this may seem like a game, but you don't want it to seem like you are going on with your life to make her jealous. You are going on with your life to make yourself happy. If she comes around, she'll come around. Don't put your life on hold when she wouldn't.

[kitten]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and make my point first: You want to know why she is pulling back? It's because you are boring her.

 

Now please allow me to go over what you said and pull this all together so you can see why I might think that. And, of course, I could be wrong, so don't get too flustered!

 

 

Boooring. (Sorry, I had to.)

 

 

This is HUGE. Her interest in you is a major factor of a quality long term relationship. Whatever you were doing - sounds like you were somewhat hard to get ahold of - was perfect. You were not calling her too much, not smothering her, you were just being yourself. With any luck when you spoke on the phone you kept it short, to the point, and were flirty/funny and used the phone to set up dates.

It's true, it's true. In the beginning, I was always at work, and wasn't sure how interested she really was anyway, so I generally kept my distance and let her come to me. When we talked, I'd chat briefly, and usually end it with "let's get a drink / dinner / whatever tonight". I guess, as time went on and I got more comfortable with her, I've felt more at liberty to be on a daily-phone-call schedule, and got used to that, and now that it's gone, I miss it.

Uh-oh, and I bet your mood has changed as well, become more worrisome, more sullen, and depressing. And I bet you have started to reach out to her trying to "fix" it, is that possible?

I may have changed my mood. It's hard to say from a subjective viewpoint, you know? I don't know if I've "reached out" to her trying to fix it -- I've *tried* to act like everything was fine, but I'm betting it didn't come off that way.

Yes and no. Why not come by AFTER work? Spend the night? Go for dinner? She's got to eat sometime, right? These are excuses she is making which, in my opinion, are telling a guy that things are not going right. You've got two options here - fix it or leave.

To be fair here, her job can be anywhere from 5am to midnight, depending on the day and stuff, and her living situation precludes her from being able to just come by and spend the night whenever she wants. And I can understand coming home late from work and having to be there again the next morning, and just wanting to crash.

 

On the other hand, when this would happen before, she'd usually at least call me, even if it was just her saying she's on her way home from work and here's how her day went, or whatever.

Oops. Why'd you call again? She KNOWS you called, let her call you back. If you leave a message, make it VERY brief - "This is Matt, call me back" with a smile in your voice.

That seems perfectly reasonable. But when emotions come into play, I can get stupid. I want to talk to her, so I call again.

So what are some of the things she did, does, and says? Clue us in a little.

I thought I mentioned before, but basically, she'd, you know, like I said, call me a lot, even if she couldn't go out, just to say hi, or I'm thinking of you, or ask me to come down to wherever she was hanging with her friends and meet them. When we were out she'd come sit on the same side of the booth as me, or make me sit on her side. She'd fawn over me, hold me, hold my hand, tell me how great things have been since I was there.

Um, yeah, that's downright SCARY. That is what a stalker does. Don't do that again. And, quite frankly, at this stage of where you are do NOT buy her anything else and do NOT send her any more "heartfelt" gifts like cards, flowers, etc. Slow down a little, reign in the emotional stuff.

Again, to be fair, I've been doing that stuff since we met. Not all the time, just once or twice a month. And since she didn't acknowledge the last one, two or three weeks ago, I've stopped. Though I've wanted to do it again, I've managed to restrain myself.

Actions speak louder than words. If a woman loses interest in you, in MY experience it is because you have done something that is boring, overbearing, lacks self control, lacks self confidence, or is plain not challenging. In a word, you have to be mature but like you have never been before.

On November 15, I lost my job, which made me pretty broke for a while. Today (!) I started a new job, and in the interim period I was doing a bunch of freelance work to make money, but there was a period of a couple weeks where I just couldn't afford to take her out much. I felt bad about it, and she assured me it wasn't a big deal, but who knows? I don't think the money thing was the issue, but never being able to *do* anything could have been.

 

But, she knows I had cash coming in from the freelance stuff, and she knows I now have a new job. If it was boring for a couple of weeks, my fault, but that was also about the time she started her new job and rehearsals which ate her time. Bad confluence, I guess.

 

You treated her like a brother. When was the last time you put your arms around her, held her in your arms and said something like "You know what? You're a great woman and I really enjoy having you around." Then kiss her, hug her for a little bit, then go off to do whatever you were doing.

I should have kissed her, yeah. Instead when I got there I hugged her and told her I'd missed her. That was when she made the whole 'sorry for being scarce lately' apology.

 

I do like your suggestions of how to deal with her when she makes such apologies, though, using it as an entrance to make concrete plans.

I'd never call you back if you left that on MY voice mail. What were you thinking????

She was at work that night, but by 1am I still hadn't heard from her, and it was bothering me. I called, hoping to get a chance to see her, and left that on her voicemail instead.

 

Anyway, I wasn't really planning on writing her a long-winded letter, it was just a thought of the 'what to do now' variety. Talking to her is something I'd really planned on, because I'm the sort that thinks communication is key. Now, part of me still wants to do that, but part of me also recognizes the sense in what you say -- that it would bore her, upset her, or both.

 

So there's all that. And now, I'm home from my first day on this new job. Should I a) call her once and attempt to get her to go out (or make plans to do so in the near future) to "celebrate"? or b) wait for her to call -- she knows I have a new job, and shouldn't she want to find out how the first day went?

[PocoDiablo]

Well, I think you get the overall idea of most of what may have, could have, happened. If you have not called her for 2-3 days then I would call her and ask her on a date.

 

If you HAVE called her recently, just wait for her to call. The curiosity will get the best of her - assuming she is still interested.

 

And remember, even if you are broke a date can just be a walk in the park. If a woman won't hang out with me unless I spend money on her, I dump her. I want a woman who enjoys being with me.

[kitten]

Well, I think you get the overall idea of most of what may have, could have, happened. If you have not called her for 2-3 days then I would call her and ask her on a date.

 

If you HAVE called her recently, just wait for her to call. The curiosity will get the best of her - assuming she is still interested.

 

And remember, even if you are broke a date can just be a walk in the park. If a woman won't hang out with me unless I spend money on her, I dump her. I want a woman who enjoys being with me.

Well, I called today for that express purpose, no answer. Finally got to the point where I realized something had to be up. So I went by her house after work. She wasn't expecting me.

 

She answers the door, I ask if we can talk, and ask if she's been avoiding me. This leads into Discussion.

 

I was, to my surprise, pretty calm and level about it. I explained that I've noticed some things that seem like red flags to me, and I want to know if I'm getting the right impression or if I'm just way off base, or what.

 

I didn't go into a long litany of "you used to do this and that", I just mentioned that she's been distant and hard to get a hold of lately, and it worried me.

 

Her reply, in a nutshell, was that she didn't think she could continue "this" (the relationship), because she had no time for us. With work, and two rehearsals, and school about to start.

 

I replied that I understood her being busy, but it doesn't change my feelings, and she shouldn't make a decision like that because she thinks I need attention -- if she's not into me anymore, that's another thing, but she assured me it wasn't.

 

You all know how these things go. Sitting around for about an hour being all quiet and repeating the same things. She was clearly confused, kept repeating "I don't know what to do, I don't know how to deal with it, I'm overwhelmed with everything." I didn't try to rationalize with her too much (okay, a little), but instead told her, she needs to sort these things out for herself. If she loves me still, then things can work if she wants them to.

 

Finally I got up and said, well, I guess I know what I came here to find out. Made motions towards the door, with her dragging on my arm and hugging me and asking if it was okay to do that, and if it was okay to call me, and even tried to kiss me at one point. I told her, if she calls, I'll answer, but I won't call her.

 

It ended with her promising to call, and asking if we could "get together" after the holidays (presumably for drinks and talk).

 

When I got home at 3am there was a message on my machine (I'd specifically told her that my cell battery was dead), a pretty interesting one. About 30 seconds of her asking me to please pick up, then some apologizing for panicking and screwing up, and would I please pick up, etc. It ended with her saying "I screwed up" and hanging up.

 

Somewhat foolishly (?) I called back, just to say I wasn't blowing her off when I didn't answer the phone, that I really wasn't there. She answered, but she was so asleep I doubt she has any idea that we talked. She did mumble that she had work at 6am and I should come in sometime, but that was about the only coherent thing she could manage. (I get the same way when I answre the phone while dead asleep.)

 

Anyway.

 

Thoughts?

[kitten]

Oh, and PS -- the money thing wasn't an issue. I only brought it up because, though we did spend time together during my little "I'm broke" period, I thought maybe the constant "let's stay in" thing was annoying her. It was just a thought, but obviously I know better now.

[PocoDiablo]

Interesting. Good results, but obtained in a way I probably would not have done it. Here's my take on it:

 

Well, I called today for that express purpose, no answer. Finally got to the point where I realized something had to be up. So I went by her house after work. She wasn't expecting me.

I would have just left it at the call, personally.

 

Finally I got up and said, well, I guess I know what I came here to find out. Made motions towards the door, with her dragging on my arm and hugging me and asking if it was okay to do that, and if it was okay to call me, and even tried to kiss me at one point. I told her, if she calls, I'll answer, but I won't call her.

Good move to leave, although I would have tried to keep it shorter than an hour, especially if you were just repeating yourselves.

 

When I got home at 3am there was a message on my machine (I'd specifically told her that my cell battery was dead), a pretty interesting one. About 30 seconds of her asking me to please pick up, then some apologizing for panicking and screwing up, and would I please pick up, etc. It ended with her saying "I screwed up" and hanging up.

 

Somewhat foolishly (?) I called back, just to say I wasn't blowing her off when I didn't answer the phone, that I really wasn't there.

Yeah, I would not have called back so soon. Or in the middle of the night (right?) waking her up.

 

Overall it seemed like you got good results by walking out. I would just try to keep that little "distance" and see how they works. Pay attention and you may just see things change for the better.

[kitten]

Yeah, it was kind of dumb for me to call right back in the middle of the night, but, y'know. Anyway, she called again today while I was at work. In my building you get horrible cell reception, so I could barely hear her, and anyway work was not the time or place, so I told her I'm out around 7, so if she wants to call me then, she can. She said fine. It's 10pm and I haven't heard from her. Logically, based on her call last night and today, I realize that probably means she's *actually* busy at work or rehearsal or something, but the paranoid side of me thinks other things.