More stuff I found out about the ex, maybe bring understanding

[renaissancewoman101]

I spent yesterday and last night over at our mutual friend's place. She had a late Thanksgiving dinner for me and some other people that she knew. I also talked to her about my ex a bit. I am still somewhat obsessed about getting the ex back although the prospects of it are appearing dimmer and dimmer.

 

I found out some interesting things about the ex. For one thing, my ex has always been complaining about him not having enough money to go back to school and get a better paying job and he has also been complaining about not learning how to drive and getting his license so he can get a car. I found out from our mutual friend that her husband offered to pay for my ex to go to trucking school and learn how to drive a truck so that he could get a trucking job and make some better money than he does now. My ex hemmed and hawed and declined it. I also found out that our mutual friend (since she got in a car accident and has muscular dystrophy and cannot drive anymore) offered to sell him her 1988 Mazda Protege for $5 and he declined saying that he didnt have his license. Apparently, from what our mutual friend thinks, he likes to live his life like a teenager and he situates his life so that he self-sabotages any chance he has of improving his life so that he can go and complain that everybody is against him, hates him, all the odds are against him, etc., so that he can say "poor me" and have people feel sorry and rescue him or else he can turn to the bottle again which he has been doing more and more recently (although our mutual friend says he has always drank a lot even during the times I was not with him). From what she says, and she has dealt a lot with alcoholics. Her mother was an alcoholic and she was married to one at one time. From what she says, he has not been allowed to be responsible for the choices he makes meaning everybody makes excuses for him, like he doesnt know what he is doing, he is like a kid so he is going to act like a teenager, etc, so he is like a teenager and has been acting like one because nobody makes him responsible for growing up and being an adult. His mom doesnt make him be responsible. She rescues him by allowing him to live under her roof and not pay rent. She enables his behavior by treating him like a child and not consistent in how she treats him, meaning sometimes she punishes him and denigrates him for something he does, and at other times she doesnt care. There is no sense of consistency.

 

I found out some more things about him and his first ex. Apparently, with his first ex, she was paying most of the bills and she got tired of him being like a little kid and not wanting responsibility so she dumped him after dating him for seven years, and being engaged to him for two of the seven years. All the other ex's apparently they dumped him, but he acted weird and did things to cause them to dump him, and then he went around crying "poor me" "nobody understands me and everybody is against me, all the girls leave me". This is his excuse for being like a child and not wanting to grow up and this is also his excuse for drinking. Our mutual friend thinks he is a classic alcoholic. He also has a tendency to self-sabotage his relationships and cause them to fail. He does that with a lot of things in his life, he does nothing to improve himself and when chances are there for him to improve himself, he doesnt take it, thus keeping him the way he is. With me, she thinks that since I still stuck around after he acted weird, etc., he decided to self-sabotage this relationship by dumping me.

 

She also pointed out to me that he likes to be the center of attention, esp negative attention, and that he does things that cause him to be the center of negative attention. He is loud and belligerent in public. He talks about weird things. He dresses weirdly that attracts negative attention from other people. She said that is the reason why she doesnt hang out with him in public anymore. She says he thinks all the world is against him, but then he does alot of the stuff to attract negative attention to him.

 

She thinks that he is going to stay this way, in his teenage lifestyle and teenage way of thinking, as long as people keep enabling him and not letting him fall for his mistakes. He has now found a gf that is barely 18 from what I hear. She comes from a family of alcoholics and she doesnt drink herself but she is also a rescuer. Our mutual friend tells me that they dont go out a lot because they both dont drive and she lives at home, so he comes and hangs out with her and her family and drinks heavily with them. So, he has no impetus to change or to better himself. His drinking has gotten worse and he has now become belligerent and angry at times. She doesnt think this relationship will last because at the end, he is going to sabotage it himself, like he does with all his other relationships.

 

Our mutual friend is mad at him because of what happened last Sat at Fur Fest. Apparently, that Sat night when I went to use the restroom, he went and got in her face and was yelling at her and ready to pick a fight with her about why I was there and why I was there so long. He was very angry I was there but then he was also very drunk. She wasnt happy at how angry he was with her and how he disrespected her in front of all the people we were sitting with. My ex had told her on Friday that it was ok with him if I showed up just as long as I didnt go and confront him and follow him around the con. Apparently that night, when he confronted her, he told her that I was harassing him and following him around the con, and that was a bunch of BS, and she called him on it. She told him that the whole night we had sat in the smoking corner talking to people and that the only time I got up was just to use the bathroom, and then he came to confront her. Everybody sitting there backed her up on her story because we were ALL there. He was thinking I was stalking him around the con, and I WASNT.

 

Apparently, he has also been going around telling people that we had a nasty breakup and he isnt coming out and telling that HE dumped me. He is insinuating that I ended it with him. He did not tell his closest friend that he dumped me, all he would say is we are broken up (his close friend had to drag it out of him to find out who broke up with who) and from the way he is telling it to people, it appears I broke up with him and is now stalking him. He is playing a sob story to people, why I dont know.

 

Our mutual friend thinks I should go and get the cell phone back from him and get him the cough up the $1500 that he owes me. I told her that he told me that he would start paying me back when he finishes paying off his last credit card bill. She then told me that he has been drinking his money away and that he has always claimed that he cant pay off his bills and cant save money to move out, for the longest time. She thinks he is spending his money on toys and drinking it all away. She doesnt think he will ever pay me back. As for the cell phone, she thinks I should get it back from him because it will teach him a lesson and that he doesnt deserve it considering he broke up with me. She thinks that he will never pay me back. As for the cell phone, she thinks I should get it back soon and he should give it back to me. As for the $1500, she thinks that I should talk to his parents about it and also talk to him and if he doesnt want to pay it back, then I should go to court over it and she says she will back me up. She was surprised that he owed me so much money. Apparently, he hasnt told that many people he owes me money. He never told her or her son (who is a good friend of his). He did tell Brian, his drinking buddy. I am not sure if I want to drag this whole thing out to get the $1500 back. If it becomes too hard, I dont want to deal with it.

 

She also thinks that he is keeping the cell phone and owing me money so as to keep a small tie on me just so he can come back to me, when he wants to, or if he needs to. She tells me that he doesnt completely cut off ties with all his exs and he is on good terms with all of them except the first one, because in case he might want to go back to them. He wants to be the center of attention and have everybody feel soory for him and rescue him.

 

She thinks that in order for him to get better, he has to hit rock bottom with his drinking and want to get help for it. He hasnt gotten there yet because his mom and all of us want to bail him out. She tells me that with an alcoholic, you cant help him/her by beign there for him, rescuing him, etc. That is only enabling him and his drinking problem. The only way to help him is to let go of him and watch him fall. She doesnt think that his new relationship is going to last because she is going to get tired of rescuing him, just as I got tired of rescuing him, but with me I lost my feelings for him.

 

As for me moving away, she thinks that if I tell him, it will bother him a bit. She thinks that he is full of it and thinks that since I have been pining away for him for awhile, that I will continue pining away for him, and me begging him back the last time I talked to him, was his way of stroking his ego. She thinks that he thinks that I will come begging for him and that he enjoys not giving me what I want since it makes him feel powerful. She thinks he thinks I will always be there waiting for him and so he doesnt care. (I did find out that he told her that Friday before I showed up that the last time I saw him and talked to him, I had begged him to sleep with me and that he didnt want to because he didnt feel right about it - she thinks he told her as a way of stroking his ego in front of her like "see she wants me that bad, she is going to come chasing me around the con"). She thinks that he will be surprised that I am moving away because that will show that I dont care anymore. But then he will blame me for that and use that as a way of saying that causes him to drink more because of the way we women always "dump" him.

 

She has given me a lot of insight into my ex. She thinks I should move away even though she will miss me, but she thinks it will be better for me to start my life over again.

 

What do you guys think of all that????

[Midgi]

sometimes it is better to cut all ties. That guy does not sound like he is going to have a bright future, and he seems to have some serious issues.

 

Your friends seem to care about you a lot. And she probably has a more objective view on things. I know that moving away is hard, but it will be better in the longrun.

[Hope75]

I think move will be good for you. More than anything I think you need to get away from this ex-- you are a bright and successful woman and yet you are wasting way too much time thinking about him and analyzing what he does. He is not changing and not growing up and you are just in two different worlds.

 

I hope that with time you will be able to see him for who he really is, a bitter childlike martyr who thinks more of himself than anyone else.

 

When do you find out if you get the apt. in CA?

[renaissancewoman101]

Hope75, I found out on Friday that I got the apartment in San Diego. It is going to be really nice. I am going to be living downtown in a highrise apt building next to the trendy area of town. I will be living in a studio (750 sq ft) on the 12th floor. The rent is kinda high though. I am going to be paying a bit of $1000/month for rent.

 

I am looking forward to moving out there although taking the next step of giving my two week notice at work is scaring me. Part of me is afraid of moving back out to CA. I spent most of my adult years here in WI and I am afraid that I wont make it out in CA. People out there are more competitive and cutthroat than people here. I also hope to be able to find a new boyfriend out there. I am afraid of change that is why I have lived here for so long. Change scares me. I also am worried about moving closer to my parents, now instead of a 4 hour plane ride, they are going to be a two hour drive away from me.

 

I do miss the ex a bit and I still cry over him at times, esp during the holidays, even though I am moving away. Part of me wishes he could have let me be there for him and make his life better, but as our mutual friend said, only he can make his own life better, I cant. It is hard to accept that because I have this rescuer mentality in me.

 

It is also hard to see how much he has grown to hate and despise me to the point of spreading nasty rumors around. That is mean. I havent done that to him. And I feel sad for him that his drinking has gotten worse.

[blues_belter]

Oh my gosh- after reading your thread, it sounds as if we could have had the same boyfriend! My ex never takes responsibility for anything either, alcoholic tendencies. Broke, leaching, no car, no license!! haha Sad part is, they try to make you look like the devil. I think most smart people see right through it. Mine is going through the court system because he started to become abusive to me. I had had it. Only thing is, he's still running around drunk and crying to anyone who will listen about how DIFFICULT I WAS!! Geez.

 

I really understand where you are coming from. It is so hard to move on especially when you still care (and people always ask- "how on earth could you still care about them now?")

 

Good luck in Cali. i am thinking about making a move to Texas myself. I just don't want to give up the good solid backing i have with my musical career here (which he is still a part of- same group). It's hard to start over but i bet it will be scary but also take 50 pounds of pressure off your shoulders as well!!

[renaissancewoman101]

Yes, I still do love my ex and I miss him a lot. And yes, he has been trying to make me look like the devil even though he was the one who broke up with me. At the con, he was going around saying that I was following him around and he accused our mutual friend of letting me come so that I could follow him around.

 

I still care about him a lot and think about him a lot, that is why it is so hard for me to move away from here. There is a small part of me that hopes that when he does find out that I am moving away, that he will have some regret about what he did to me, and maybe even come back to me. I want him to know that I am moving on with my life and I am not staying here waiting for him. I do love him a lot and going through with this, although it is good for me, is extremely painful for me.

 

Right now, I have to find a way to get the courage to talk to him because I need to get my cell phone back from him. I also need him to pay me the $1500 that he owes me, soon.

[blues_belter]

Does he have a job, or any other means to get the money back to you? How long has he owed you this $? Depends on the person I guess. Go get your phone back but i wouldn't hold my breath over the $ anytime soon. My ex still owes me 6 months in back rent. Good thing I have a job...

 

You can try everything to get tback the money maybe even take him to small claims court but he may never be honorable to repay you. But get your phone back at least, why does he have YOUR phone? Are you paying the bill on that too?

 

Yeah, this guy only cares for himself. Sure he probably has feeling for you but only in terms of what you can do for him. That hurts but don't keep hanging on to this guy and don't hope that your moving away will make him come back to you.

 

I want you to go out and buy the book "Why Men Love *CENSORED* *CENSORED* *CENSORED* *CENSORED* *CENSORED*es" It tells you how to go from being a doormat to a dreamgirl. I wish it was around for me before i started dating. Really an excellent book about not taking crap from ANY man. About really respecting yourself first and that, in turn, causes the men in your life to respect you. Real men love a woman with backbone. And don't worry if your ex is talking trash about you. He's not a real man anyway, and like i said, smart people see right through it. Go buy the book! And next time you get involved, make sure he can support himself financially and treat YOU for a change!!

[blues_belter]

that last censored line was Why men love bi - tches (won't let me write it out!)

[renaissancewoman101]

Well, I called the ex today to get my phone back and to try to get some of my money. I called him at work. He seemed ok to hear from me. We talked for about 5 minutes. I told him that I wanted my phone back and that I wanted my money that he owes me back. I also told him that I was moving away. He seemed like he was in a good mood and wanted to talk. He didnt seem that perturbed that I was moving away. He asked me where I was moving to and all that. I told him that I was moving to San Diego and that he should be happy that I was moving away since he didnt have to then worry about dealing with me. He told me that he wasnt happy to see me move away and he wish that it didnt turn out the way it did because he didnt want me to think of him like how other men may have treated me. He said he wanted to be "different" in my eyes. In a way, we talked like old times sake and it made me miss him a bit. I miss him and talking to him a lot. It kind of made me sad that this turned out this way.

 

He asked me where I was moving too and he told me that it would be good for me. I told him that I found a place out in San Diego, etc. He sounded happy to talk to me. He did sound surprised a bit that I was moving away. Sometimes I think he was putting on a front about things I then asked him when I could get my money back and he told me that he didnt know how much he could give me now since Christmas was coming and all that. He said he would try to give me as much as he could. I asked him if I could get my phone back on Thursday since I was going down to hang out with our mutual friend on Thurs night and then I asked him if he knew that I was hanging out with her more often. He said he knew and that he saw me at Fur Fest. I told him that I didnt follow him around Fur Fest and I stayed out of his way. He told me that he knew, but from the way his tone of voice was, it didnt seem like he was that happy to see me at Fur Fest. We then talked about our mutual friend and he told me that she was mad at him for that Sat and that she is mad at some of the girls who hang with her. He then nonchalantly told me that she has this bad habit of making friends, alienating them, and dumping them. Sometimes, I think he told me that to warn me from her. I dont know.

 

I then asked him how was I going to get my stuff back on Thursday. I told him that I had to work and that it usually takes me a long time to get down to his area with the traffic on Thursday. He said he got off around 5:45 and if I could leave work earlier so I could meet up with him since he had stuff to do on Thursday night. I was like ok. I then told him that I would call him on Thursday to see how we could set this up. Sometimes, I feel as though he is trying to find a way to make this hard for me. I dont know. It doesnt seem like he has any animosity or anger towards me. He sounded friendly and pleasant and we talked a bit.

 

I dont know. Talking to him has made me miss him a bit. I do get the idea that he is acting kind of like the condescending one in our conversation, like "I am sorry I caused this for you, I dont want you to think of me like every other guy who may have hurt you since I am not like that, and I am not happy to see you leave." Some of his words and tone sounded condescending, esp when he mentioned the mutual friend and her propensity to drop her friends. Why would he act condescending to me? That is something I cant understand.

 

I have no idea if I am going to get the phone back on Thursday. He doesnt sound like he cares if I am leaving or not.

[novaseeker]

You're going to be much, much better off away from this person, Ren, really. It's the right move for you.

 

If you don't want to risk seeing him emotionally, why not just turn the cellphone off remotely, and tell him that. Do you really need the phone back?

[renaissancewoman101]

I know, I am glad to be moving away. In a way it is sad to see how this all turned out, considering in the beginning of our relationship he seemed to be so in love with me and to care about me so much, and he did for most of the relationship treat me very well. I just didnt think he could become like this to me after the relationship was over.

 

Also, why do men act condescending to a woman in situations like this? I just want to understand the nuances of why men act the way they do. I am trying to learn so that the next relationship I get into, I am not so naieve about things.

[novaseeker]

My guess is that it is a defense mechanism. He is hurt, he is probably somewhat angry with you as well (anger is really just hurt expressed towards other people) and it's a way of expressing that. That would be my guess.