What does this make me?

[silverthreads]

Reading another post asking about the definition of "straight" gave me the idea of posting about this. It is embarrassing, but lately I have questioned my sexuality.

 

I have considered myself straight my whole life. I've only been attracted to girls, and gay pornos disgust me. But lately out of curiosity I started to look at "shemale" porn. Pardon me if the term is offenssive. Anyway, it really turns me on. And I remember me and my mates used to joke around about "what would you do if you got to that point with a girl and she turned out to not be a real girl?" and I'd think to myself that I'd feel angry and digusted. But now, instead, I think I wouldn't care. I find those "shemales" that look real feminine a turn on. Not that I would prefer that to a real girl, though. One thing, though, is that I've always felt anal sex with girls is the biggest turn on. I do not know why, but I think I actually like it a little better than regular sex. Is that weird? I've never been attracted to men, though, and I find gay sex disgusting. And I'm not even a big fan of lesbian pornos either. Does the other stuff still make me bi or something else? Or is it "normal"?

[pianoguy]

Can I ask why this is a concern of yours?

I've never been attracted to men, though, and I find gay sex disgusting.

 

I think you just answered your own question here.

[miracle29]

This is so sad. So many men have no idea about there own sexuality and this is so scary for us women. Its like you never know is his so called best friend, could very well be his lover on the side.

 

Then that DL thing came out and its so horrible. Women catching aids from men who pretend to be straight and so on and so forth.

HOWEVER you are having a different scenerio here, and one I have never heard of before:

 

So many men want to dibble and dabble in sexual things with the same sex yet they say "I"m not gay" that its SCARY. I don't want to judge you on a fantasy or something that gets you arroused but this to me is just not normal. It makes me wonder how many other "men" actually like to watch shemales and gay men doing things. I think this has gay tendency written all over it. I think there are too many catergories for gay now and so even men who are quazi gay, don't know how to fit in because they have to choose from a hundred different "types" of gay.

 

 

I think any man who finds sex with a person who was born a man even if they changed into a female needs to come clean and be honest with themselves because they indeed have homosexual tendencies.

[pianoguy]

Then that DL thing came out and its so horrible. Women catching aids from men who pretend to be straight and so on and so forth.

 

Don't delude yourself. AIDS has long ago ceased to be primarily transmitted through gay sex, the primary method of transmission nowadays is through straight people.

 

So many men want to dibble and dabble in sexual things with the same sex yet they say "I"m not gay" that its SCARY. I don't want to judge you on a fantasy or something that gets you arroused but this to me is just not normal.

 

It is normal for some people. For whatever reason there seem to be a fair amount of men and women out there who are perfectly straight but sometimes fantasize same-sex activity. This is more common among teenagers and tends to wear off as people age and become more comfortable with their sexuality.

 

It makes me wonder how many other "men" actually like to watch shemales and gay men doing things. I think this has gay tendency written all over it. I think there are too many catergories for gay now and so even men who are quazi gay, don't know how to fit in because they have to choose from a hundred different "types" of gay.

 

I find the fact that you put "men" in quotes very offensive. Gay men are just as much men as straight people are, I can assure you.

 

Your description of "categories" of gay makes no sense. Just as you wouldn't attempt to categorize straight people.

 

What everyone is missing in this discussion is that what being gay comes down to is not sex, but love. Gay people fall in love with people of the same sex and wish to form romantic, sexual relationships with them. Straight people fall in love with people of the opposite sex and wish to form romantic, sexual relationships with them. It's really that simple.

 

Sometimes, straight people will LUST (not love- important distinction) after people of the same sex, and gay people will LUST after people of the opposite sex, but this is little more than a passing fancy and is not love. I (a gay man) have never experienced lust for a woman, but this type of thing seems increasingly common.

 

Honestly, the matter really isn't that complicated, people.

[Blackmsmithdave]

Silverthreads sorry those two are going off topic a little. I think you are perfectly normal, i myself hold this kind of fantasy, im bi but there is nothing wrong with a straight person having a fantasy like yours. Its my opinion that there is no such thing as straight or gay just varying degrees. people are not black and white they are varying shades, of grey.

 

So silverthreads i believe that you perfectly normal. A fantasy is a fantasy, it doesnt matter what you ike what i like it doesnt matter to anyone, like i said i find the idea really quite arosing myself, so good luck with finding your hot shemale,

[miracle29]

Forgive me for not understanding the "Gay" mindest. You made so many assumptions about the level of my intelligence by trying to condescend to me about "Aids" and "Gay thoughts and feelings". After reading your post I noticed that you admitted to being gay and took my OPINION personal and responded out of emotion and not logic. I don't intend to go back and forth with you about the lifestyle you have chosen. All I ask is that you don't try to encapsulate me in the "Oh she's just a gay hater and thinks all aids come from men who are gay". That is not only a false assumption but an insult and attack on my knowledge about STDS.

 

But I think If I reply entirely to your picking my opinion and my post apart like you attempted to do, in attempts to change my mind, that you and I will more than likely end up getting in trouble for flamming.

So out of respect to the moderators I wont even go there.

 

I have the right to my opinion and if you don't like it, you can just as easily ignore it. I don't agree with same sex relationships, I don't agree with it and I never will. However, that is my opinion, and thats what makes me an INDIVIDUAL.

[Jinx]

My opinion on the original question being. No, I wouldn't call it Bi. As far as I'm concerned Sexual interest doesn't make a relationship. There is of course more depth as we all know to it. Thus, given you're just looking at photographs and whatever else makes this statement

 

I've only been attracted to girls, and gay pornos disgust me

 

just about plain as it gets. I've heard people being turned on by a wide spectrum of things from the normal to odd, and it doesn't change their orientation. Being Gay, Lesbian, or Bi would also include the relationship portion of this idea not a scratch of the surface (images). Just my thoughts anyhow as usual.

 

Onto off topic matters:

I'd like my moment of wishful thinking, that people, no matter their orientation could be more honest. Cheating is cheating, plain and simple. People will do as they do, but if they're in a commited relationship dibbling and dabbling has no part what so ever. If people would be who they are instead of leading double lives and hurting others there would be a much improved outlook.

 

I don't care about what an individual identifies, whether it is a gay man living a "straight" life during the day and another at night -OR- straight couple and a cheating husband or visa versa with female element inserted into any of those situations. I am entirely against cheating of any nature. I could go on and on about that.

 

Thirdly, again, no matter the orientation I wish certain people would be more careful about themselves and others. So many people are ignorant even in this day and time about STD transmission, others don't care and ends up hurting someone else. I'd like to think Sex Education in this Country provided something useful that students could use in future scenarios, but so many seem to ignore it. I suppose, this is where the trust element becomes so important in relationships now, trust them enough to tell the truth and trust them enough to live one 24/7 life with their one partner whether opposite sex or same sex.

[pianoguy]

Forgive me for not understanding the "Gay" mindest.

 

All I ask is that people make an effort to understand my point of view. When people do not attempt to understand people different from themselves, I cannot respect those people. One of our highest calls as human beings is to empathize with our fellow man.

 

You made so many assumptions about the level of my intelligence by trying to condescend to me about "Aids" and "Gay thoughts and feelings".

 

I intended no such thing, and I apologize if it was interpreted that way. You made a false statement about AIDS and I corrected it, mainly for the benefit of those who might be perusing this forum and might receive false information about STD's.

I don't intend to go back and forth with you about the lifestyle you have chosen.

 

If this is true then you would stop attacking me, clearly you do wish to argue about this.

 

All scientific evidence indicates that sexual orientation is not a chosen orientation (I also find the term "gay lifestyle" quite ignorant but we won't go into that now, it is a common error). This has also been my personal experience as a gay person.

 

From David Meyers, Ph. D. "Accumulating evidence points to brain differences and prenatal hormonal influences as helping to explain sexual orientation. Studies have also found that hetereosexual and homosexual individuals vary in other ways unlikely to have been influenced by upbringing or choice, including fingerprint patterns and spatial abilities."

 

From Charlotte Patterson, Ph.D., of the APA: "The decision to remove homosexual orientation from the list of mental disorders reflects the results of extensive research, conducted over three decades, showing that homosexual orientation is not a psychological maladjustment The social and other circumstances in which lesbians and gay men live, including exposure to widespread prejudice and discrimination, often cause acute distress; but there is no reliable evidence that homosexual orientation per se impairs psychological functioning."

 

From the American Psychological Association:

"The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals.

 

Nor is homosexuality a matter of individual choice. Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant accross cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture. Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores. Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments."

 

I have the right to my opinion and if you don't like it, you can just as easily ignore it. I don't agree with same sex relationships, I don't agree with it and I never will. However, that is my opinion, and thats what makes me an INDIVIDUAL.

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but the mere fact that you hold an opinion does not make it true, nor does it entitle you to respect. I admit that I find it difficult to respect your opinion, based on no scientific research and empirical data, when contrasted with my own personal experiences and the weight of research of the APA and some of the most respected psychologists in the field. I apologize, but I sincerely believe that your opinion is in error, furthermore, the scientific community backs me up.

 

In addition to being untrue, your opinion helps encourage persecution of gays and lesbians. This is not responsible as a human being and part of the community of all people. I am in no way suggesting that you are homophobic, but there are lots of people out there who can read and listen to you and draw homophobic conclusions from them. This is a dangerous and irresponsible thing to do.

 

And I apologize that this has gone so far off topic but I feel this is a very important error that needs to be cleared up.

[novaseeker]

But lately out of curiosity I started to look at "shemale" porn. Pardon me if the term is offenssive. Anyway, it really turns me on. Does the other stuff still make me bi or something else? Or is it "normal"?

 

Alright. Since everyone else has run off and hijacked the thread (haha), maybe I'll try to get back to your specific question.

 

The transsexual women I've met in the real world report that most men who are interested in them are straight-identifying, but have a sexuality that could best be described as 'bi-curious'. A man who is not bi-curious is not attracted to someone who looks like a woman but is biologically (and sexually) a man .. it may be a passing fancy or titillation on the internet, but he would never actually be interested in having a relationship with such a person. Similarly, gay men are not generally attracted to transsexuals (contrary to what most of the straight world seems to think), because again they are not attracted to the female form that a (convincing) transsexual presents ... they like the male form, hence they are gay.

 

Sooo ... I would say that you are likely probably at least bi-curious. You don't seem to be attracted to the male form, but you are attracted to someone who presents as a female and yet is still a male ... that seems to fit at least bi-curious. If you actually had at some point developed a track record of having relationships with people of both sexes (or with transsexual people), perhaps at that point you might be able to determine that you were actually bisexual in orientation ... but you can't determine that simply by being aroused by transsexual porn.

 

Oh, and yes, it is 'normal'. Gay, straight, bi, it's all 'normal' .... but not everyone will agree!

 

And don't get too worked up about so-called 'shemale' porn, either, in terms of drawing too many conclusions about yourself by how it may arouse you. Most transsexual women do not look like that, and many/most transsexual women at some point choose to undergo sexual reassignment surgery because they do not like their male sexual equipment. So what you're seeing in 'shemale' porn is more of a male fantasy of what being with a transsexual person would be like, rather than the actual reality of what a transsexual person is like and what he/she wants to do ... as is the case with any porn, really.

[Blackmsmithdave]

Well said Novaseeker, im glad someone could give a good well balanced answer. Im very disapointed by the way pianoguy and miracle29 have behaved and i want to apologise to silverthreads for the way their argument has disrupted things. People post here to have questions answered and concerns laid to rest. I hope that you have atleast received a better insight into yourself and your fantasies. If there is anything else that we can do to help just post and we will do our best.

[Caterina]

Concerning miracle...I don't like the fact that you attacked her, out of emotionalism and defensively (which I do not blame you for, since you probably have reasons for being so defensive...were attacked in past, etc...), but to switching around your statement and saying that she was the one attacking you...I think that that was short sighted and sort of rude. You didn't offer practical evidence, but instead made fun of her. Problems I found with your sources: the first one merely says Phd...of what? It seems unlikely that he is a neuroscientist, because homosexual studies of the brain still remain inconclusive and debatable. Psychology is a good source when trying to understand sexuality, but not a sole source, and the views are also *extremely* conflicted in that dept. as well. And Patterson doesn't really admit to much, all she is really saying is that she doesn't think that there is enough evidence that cites that homosexuals are insane...that is sort of obvious, I'd think. And the statement from the APA ,"It is simply..." *rolls eyes* everyone knows that the nature of sexuality and love have completely evaded the APA and all other research, and to make a claim on how one aspect of it is "simply" something is just another good example of coloring something with opinion. Basically APA is just following the most recent philosophical fad of its day...as many institutions in our past have and been off...I am not making a position for either stance, because both have their points, and both sides have their evidence (rather, I should say, lack-of)...but basically this is far too complex a subject to go off getting mad at people for stating their opinions.

[UT]

because homosexual studies of the brain still remain inconclusive and debatable.

 

They are inconclusive because they haven't found anything that's different. it will still remain inconclusive until they find something, which they probably won't do. I've heard some theories on this and I don't think they will find anything different.

 

Ok, this wasn’t why I posted. I meant to say that you people are coming off topic and please show respect. all opinions are welcomed, just not narrow-mind ness.

 

another thing

because homosexual studies of the brain still remain inconclusive and debatable.

Does it matter who studies the brain? homosexual studies, lol. It was probablt an error but a funny one. I'm sorry. It was just so funny.

[Caterina]

Why is there so much irony in your postings? You claim to hate narrowmindedness...but *sigh*.

 

Homosexual studies are studies that are directed towards understanding homosexuality.

[patience]

maybe start a new thread people...this is not fair to the original poster

[patience]

I find those "shemales" that look real feminine a turn on.

 

A lot of people feel the same way, that's why this sort of porn exists in the first place...supply and demand, y'know.

 

Sometimes people feel turned on when they see something they've never seen before. After awhile, they no longer feel turned on. It happens. There is a novelty factor.

 

People have all sorts of fantasies...fantasy is not reality though.

 

Are you single? If you are, then you are totally free to explore who you are sexually. You're young, and you won't get this time back. Play safe though. Don't get yourself into situations that you can't get out of.

 

There is nothing wrong with being curious. Be true to who you are. Never mind what other people think, this is YOUR life!

[UT]

Why is there so much irony in your postings? You claim to hate narrowmindedness...but *sigh*.

 

Homosexual studies are studies that are directed towards understanding homosexuality.

 

Don't take me wrong. I wasn't trying to offend you or in any other way.

 

Definition of narrow-minded:

Unwilling to accept or understand new or different ideas, opinions, or customs

 

I won't answer to this discussion anymore.

-----------------------------------------------------

 

Back to topic.

Exploring will, if you're uncertain, only do you good. Some might find shemales attractive as a phase and others are attracted by shemales (not as a phase). We are all different. If we worry too much about what we are or what we like we might go from living to just being alive.

[pianoguy]

the first one merely says Phd...of what? It seems unlikely that he is a neuroscientist, because homosexual studies of the brain still remain inconclusive and debatable.

 

I freely admit that I do not know what his Phd is in, but Meyers is one of the most respected psychologists in the country. His textbook entitled "Psychology" is one of the most widely respected in the field and is in use by colleges and highschools accross the country. His credentials are flawless and his standing in the scientific community is unassailable. To suggest otherwise is ignorant and insulting.

 

Psychology is a good source when trying to understand sexuality, but not a sole source,

I respectfully disagree. What other sources would you consult?

 

And the statement from the APA ,"It is simply..." *rolls eyes* everyone knows that the nature of sexuality and love have completely evaded the APA and all other research, and to make a claim on how one aspect of it is "simply" something is just another good example of coloring something with opinion. Basically APA is just following the most recent philosophical fad of its day...as many institutions in our past have and been off...

Unless you have some pretty impressive credentials you have absolutely no standing in which to attack the APA. To suggest that that APA is opinionated is laughable and represents wishful thinking on your part. Members of the APA are subjected to extensive peer-to-peer criticism, their findings must be backed by exhaustive experimental data. If you have also performed these experiments, then please send me your data and I would be willing to reconsider my above statement.

 

You also mentioned that there isn't data on the subject of the brain difference between gay and straight people , but you are again wrong.

 

"Simon LeVay discovered one such structure while studying sections of the hypothalamus taken from deceased hetereosexual and homosexual people. For nine months he peered through his microscope at a cell cluster known to be involved in sexuality. His discovery: the cell cluster was reliably smaller in homosexual men. Given that everything psychological is also biological (we are emobided beings) it should not surprise us that brains differ with sexual orientation." From David Meyers book

 

"Several recent studies, demonstrate that there are notable differences between the physiolgy of a heterosexual male and a homosexual male. These differences are primarily noted in the brain, inner ear and sense." -from Wikipedia

 

"Sexual differentiation relevant to sexual orientation occurs in hypothalamic areas of the brain (in 1987 the preoptic anterior nucleus, ventromedial nucleus, and anterior nucleus were known)" - from a study by Ellis and Ames

 

Also from that study- "To summarize the human evidence ... sexual orientation is mainly the result of neurological factors that are largely determined prenatally, even though they do not fully manifest themselves until adolescence or adulthood"

 

"LeVay & Hamer summarize the evidence for a neurological basis of sexual orientation: histological investigation of adult human brains shows the INAH3 cell group (third interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus in the medial preoptic region of the hypothalamus) to be approximately three times larger in men than women and that gay men had INAH3 cell groups no larger than women" - from the study by LeVay and Hamer

 

I could go on but you get the point. This is what respected science says about the matter, end of story. Now, I do need to clarify two things:

 

Science is never so arrogant to claim that it has PROVEN something. It only presents theories that describe the way our world works to the best of our reasoning. For example, the heliocentric theory says that the earth orbits around the sun. It can't actually be PROVEN (maybe it's just an error in our perceptions! Maybe the scientific community is biased! Maybe the whole thing is an elaborate prank by God as the Pope told Galileo!) but it is the best explanation and everyone accepts it. But it wasn't this way in the beginning, only scientists accepted it at first, then the common people, then the church. This is the same thing with research on homosexuality or evolution. All respectable scientists accept these theories, and eventually ordinary people and the church will also. It is inevitable.

 

The second thing is that science cannot make judgments about morality. Is it moral for the earth to go around the sun? Is it okay to steal money from my little brother to buy food? Science will never be able tell us. Likewise, even though science is close to demonstrating that sexual orientation is biological, it will not be able to tell us whether it is right or wrong.

[pianoguy]

Having reread this thread I've realized that the whole discussion, while important, is way off-topic. Out of respect to the original poster I'm starting a new thread entitled "Homosexuality and science." Any wishing to continue the discussion can do so over there. I hope this is a good solution for everyone.

 

Apologies,

pianoguy