technical question about gayness

[novaseeker]

I believe the clinical definition of bisexuality is actual someone who has SEX with both genders, emotional bond or otherwise. I know many, many, many gay men who have sex with other men, and don't want a relationship, full-blown or partial. So they might not really be gay after all?

 

It comes from my therapist, actually. I agree that someone who has sex with men is to some degree bisexual. So I don't think we're disagreeing. The more full-blown bisexual actually has emotional attraction to people of both genders, just as a gay person would have emotional attraction to men (whether he *wants* a relationship with them or not is actually 100% irrelevant).

 

There may be different degrees of bisexuality, but you either is or you ain't. Once you step over the just-experimenting line, you are in the realm of bisexuality.

 

I agree. There are degrees of it, and there are people in denial about it. Hence I said that men who have sex with men are to some degree bisexual. Bisexuality is like that ... it's a matter off degree. It differs from straight and gay which are not a matter of degree. That was my point.

 

My sexual orientation is gay. thereforeeee, my "choices/preferences" in sex are gay. Same, same. If I "choosed" to have annaul sex with a woman, then that would speak of my orientation.It is only in extreme situations were this may not be true, ie prison. But then they don't have a choice -period. So in that case its not about preferences. Unles you are in an exceptional circumstance, your choices do dictate your orientation, or rather, truly the the other way around.

 

Again, what about the straight man who likes to receive anal sex? For him, his 'preference' (anal sex) is different from his 'orientation' (straight). If we assume he doesnt even experiment with men, and is strictly sexually active with women, then we have a case of someone who has a sexual preference in terms sexual act which differs from what is commonly associated with people of his sexual orientation. Believe me, most people in the straight world would say that a man who wants it up the butt is not straight, regardless of his protestations to the contrary that he is only attracted to women. The world reads these two different things (ie, what you like to do vs. whom you like to do it with) together, and my point is that they are separate and do not need to flow together. I don't think we disagree with each other, I think we were talking about two different things.

[novaseeker]

He says he has about a 20% physical attraction to men,to be bisexual in his mind is to have an equal amount of attraction to both sexes.

 

Well, see that's why I hate the term 'bisexual' because it's commonly thought to mean just that (ie, equally attracted), when in fact that is pretty rare. It doesn't mean that at all. Someone who is 20% attracted sexually/affectionally to the same sex is bisexual.

 

For instance,he'll come to my house on some nights and talk to a girlfriends of his for and hour and a half on the phone,but the central topics will be things like soap operas,books and the like.He weighs about 122 pounds and looks like a boy,thin voice etc.

 

Well, but these things have nothing to do with it. Most bi people and many gay people do not act according to the sterotype that people have in mind.

[L8RISER]

Oh man...

 

I hate soap operas. I'm 170 lbs at 6'. I read, but I don't talk about books. And I'm gay. Like the forest Gump line...Gay is what gay does! Who you have sex with is what defines your sexuality. There are as many types of gay people as there are types of straight people.

 

OK...one more time. Nothing left for "life to sort out"...No questions yet to be answered...no vague facts...Nothing left to be revealed in time...

 

YOUR COUSIN IS BISEXUAL...an MAYBE GAY! (that's the only question I suppose - I was wrong.)

 

Man on Man sex once: Maybe straight.

 

Man on Man sex twice: Maybe straight.

 

Lots of Man on Man sex in the past and maybe in the future: DEFINITELTY NOT STRAIGHT. We have a winner! Go collect your money.

 

But anyway, why do you care? (Besides the bet...which is kinda cold.)

[teddyboy]

YOUR COUSIN IS BISEXUAL...an MAYBE GAY!

 

gay? how if he likes women

 

But anyway, why do you care? (Besides the bet...which is kinda cold.)

 

It's not as much caring as being curious because of his denial.I dunno about the bet being cold,after all it doesnt hurt him in any way because it's a private bet.It could be unethical because its too similar to a sports bet... ,but not cold.I'm one of my cousin's best friends and thats why I dIsclosed this thread to him."No problem as long as my identity isn't disclosed" is all he said.He's quite liberal and takes very few things personally.

Again,thanks for all your thoughts.

[L8RISER]

Full-blown bisexual? You are either bi or you are not. The degree part of it is in relation to which gender you are more attracted to. 20/80 girl/boy - bisexual. 50/50 - bisexual. 80/20 - bisexual. You even said that yourself. Now you could say a little bit gay...which would mean bisexual. But you can't say a little bit bisexual!

 

Honestly, I don't put a lot a faith in the old "emotionally attracted" line. It just sounds a lot like closet-talk to me. I use to say to myself that I was bi because I was only physically attracted to men, and emotionally attracted to women. That was becuase I had never been with a guy before. Sex is a very powerful thing, and as much as we like to think that we are above the carnal nature of lust, it still controls so much of who we are. I really don't know how you can separate who you sleep with from who you fall in love with. Not to say that people don't have sex without falling in love, but that love and sex are so tighty woven together that one inevitaby and eventually leads to the other regardless of the gender you are sleeping with.

 

I don't think there is anything gay or bi about a straight man who likes anal sex. But with another man, HELLO! You are asserting that anal sex is gay sex. It's not. You are right, just because he prefers to have anal sex does not mean he is oriented as gay or bi. It's not about the type act, but who you preform it with. Blow jobs can be gay or straight, all depends.

 

I realise we are arguing semantics, but I think they are important ones.

[L8RISER]

Sleeping with women and liking women are too different things. I know of gay men who used to be married, have kids, etc. Who knew?

[teddyboy]

good point.

 

 

Indeed,this has turned out to be a more complicated issue than I thought it would be.There seem to be many more variations than I thought as well.

 

My God,why couldn't you just make life simple?

[novaseeker]

Full-blown bisexual? You are either bi or you are not. The degree part of it is in relation to which gender you are more attracted to. 20/80 girl/boy - bisexual. 50/50 - bisexual. 80/20 - bisexual. You even said that yourself. Now you could say a little bit gay...which would mean bisexual. But you can't say a little bit bisexual!

 

Right. I was using terminology for a shorthand to describe a 20/80 bisexual. The straight world generally thinks that bisexual = equally attracted, so when you say 'slightly bisexual' they may think like something closer to 20/80. Shorthand.

 

I use to say to myself that I was bi because I was only physically attracted to men, and emotionally attracted to women. That was becuase I had never been with a guy before. Sex is a very powerful thing, and as much as we like to think that we are above the carnal nature of lust, it still controls so much of who we are. I really don't know how you can separate who you sleep with from who you fall in love with. Not to say that people don't have sex without falling in love, but that love and sex are so tighty woven together that one inevitaby and eventually leads to the other regardless of the gender you are sleeping with.

 

Which is why I myself prefer the term "affectional orientation". But nevertheless there are people who describe themselves as otherwise. I prefer to take their words at face value rather than point fingers at them and tell them 'what they really are'. Let them figure that out -- either way -- for themselves, it seems to me.

 

You are asserting that anal sex is gay sex. It's not.

 

I'm not asserting that. I'm saying that this is what *most* of the straight world thinks. That's why I think it's critical to dinstinguish between preference for sex acts and orientation towards sex partners .. hence preference vs orientation. If you have a better term for it, please share it.

[teddyboy]

Well,for whatever it's worth(and I suspect not much)I did meet a gay man once who said he hated anal sex so there you go.

There are all sorts of variations out there.