cruelty and asymmetries

[jng92130]

my story (though I've posted comments all over the place here with more details as they relate to others' situations):

 

link removed

 

I was being good about NC for a while; it seemed the only thing to do a couple of weeks after I had to move out. She was (and is, of course) so in love with her new guy, and really didn't care if I fell off the planet or got smooshed under a truck... so there was no point in staying in touch. I had a lapse last week, though, with a quick "feels weird not to talk. let's get in touch" email, which I regretted almost immediately. She wrote back a couple of days later and said that she didn't want to be in touch anyway. Ouch. It's been almost two months now since we parted, but it all still hurts so much. How long do these things take?

 

This was the girl I thought I would marry. I would have done anything for her, and did (I thought) make all the effort that could be made to hold us together. She felt very differently, and was ready to jettison me without a second thought.. like a spent rocket booster or a bag of old garbage.

 

Sad that relationships can be so unbalanced, so asymmetric, in which one person is deeply in love and the other is just coasting along, waiting for a better lilypad to hop to (the next guy).

 

She wrote today in IM, though I'd removed her from the contact list, asking something about her car. I took care of it for her while we were together. She's still just using me, I know, and I'm not tempted at all to reply. But how can someone be so cruel that it would seem ok to ask something like that? "I don't care about you at all, as demonstrated by how I kicked you out, but you know more about my car than I do, so how about a hand... chum?" aiee.

 

Shortly after I moved out she called me and asked me how to set up Skype on her computer (my computer, actually) so that she could talk to her new boyfriend in Canada. I couldn't believe that she'd do that...but there it was. She was surprised that I wasn't willing to provide technical support. A week later, she called again to ask if I'd help her set up a new DVD player to connect to her (again, my) tv.

 

augh.

[Bounder]

Not to defend her, but for people here, it gets skewed sometimes. How many stories of dumpers are there on here? Nowhere near as many. I realize we preach to the choir here, and thats what we need. But she MUST have made sense at least to herself in what she did. Does not make it okay though. We'll never understand because we arent them, if we were maybe we still would have made the choice they did, and then not be able to explain it like we would like.

 

Humans try, even the ones who do bad things. Its the ones who dont pay attention to how they affect others that should be shipped to some new penal colony we could call "egotopia" haha!

[arcane5]

I know exactly what you mean about asymmetries - it's particularly difficult to swallow when the relationship was once in total equilibrium... I catch myself projecting thoughts and feelings onto my ex that I know she would have had when we were together. Then I get a rude awakening when her behaviour doesn't match those feelings... the change is the difficult part to accept.

 

As for your situation specifically, it's exceedingly clear that your ex is selfish. I know she has redeeming qualities - those are the ones that you're hanging onto. But at some point you will realize that the fact that she's capable of the treatment she's giving you now means that she's not exactly the person you used to think she was.

 

The things she's contacted you to ask you about are absurd - just re-read those couple of sentences that you wrote when you're having a tough time not calling her. You wouldn't stay in touch with a stranger who treated you so selfishly.

 

Good luck.

[Reilly2856]

Just a question: why does she have so much of your stuff?

 

She comes accross as a very selfish person who refused to stay in touch with you, yet calls when it suits her needs. GET your stuff back....be selfish for a change....ur computer, ur tv...why the heck does she have it?

 

I think mainly, since she knows how u feel about her, she's trying to keep that interest going. So many ppl are egotistical...she's one of em. Just ignore her.

[jng92130]

Thank you so much, all, for the posts. It sucks that any of us have to go through these sorts of things, but good to know that we all come out (or will come out eventually) the on the far side stronger and wiser.

Someone posts with the tag "If you're going through hell... keep on going. (from Winston Churchill)" kinda comforting

 

In that long post (my original story), I mentioned that from the moment I said "ok, I'll go look for apartments tomorrow", she was not mine, but his. The transition was instant. And she got on the phone and started talking to him... in tones that she'd used with me long ago as we were becoming a couple. And so that Friday and Saturday I couldn't help but hear her creating a new close bond with her new boyfriend, who lives in Canada. And it wasn't smart not to get *everything* out, but I couldn't stand being there to hear all that and so packed as much as possible in a storage place and left a few big pieces of furniture -- couch, bookshelf, tv, just three or four big things. All the little stuff I took and stuck in storage.

 

Bounder, you're totally right. We're on this site to find solace rather than facts and reasons (for the most part). And in time, it'll probably be easy to see things from her perspective and feel and believe that what she did was right and proper. But now, with all the emotions still strong and raw, it's tought to think that clearly.

[Bounder]

It would be nice for dumpers to come here too and say that they found it hard...but then they made the choice, easy to be strong and move on. I think we will be ok too eventually.....

[Miss M]

jng92130...

Thanks for sharing this. I'm really sorry you've had such a difficult time. I went and read your other thread also. I think you're an amazing person, very generous. This is a good reminder for me that it's not just the women who get mistreated and exploited. And it's really helpful to know there are actually some nice guys out there somewhere.

 

Best wishes on your healing.

[jng92130]

Thank you, Miss M. It's been a surprising and sobering experience for me to grow up and learn that adults can be even crueler to each other than kids can be to each other in, say, junior high. The callousness of adults can be deeper and probably more scarring. (I had a miserable junior high experience, btw, and then a *great* time in high school.)

 

We all sense, I think, that there's a line between being a generous and giving person, and being a doormat and a schlub. I've had a pretty good feel for that line over the years, and have known with increasing accuracy when it was time to be nice and giving and kind... and when it was time to be a hard-a**, to step back and evaluate things, and do what had to be done (in the sense of whether a relationship was or wasn't working).

 

 

But here, because I believed with all my heart that she was The One -- something I, at 33, have never felt before -- I lost all sense of where that line was... and crossed well over, giving far more than I was receiving. I think at some point the relationship became pathological in the sense that I was trying to win her love, her acceptance: "see, I'll change.. I'm good enough.. I'll do anything" or something to that effect. It seems now, and this despite a persistent desire to see and hug her and so on, to have been an extremely unhealthy and essentially soul-sucking situation.

 

 

I've probably said this several times already in earlier posts(my mind is like swiss cheese now -- do breakups affect memory?): sometimes a relationship takes work, real work. And the payoffs to that work can be that you both know you struggled *together* through a difficult time and that you will emerge more closely bound.

 

My ex believes with all her heart that she and I were not meant to be. I disagreed, of course, based on all that we'd shared and enjoyed together, and argued that in our case it would take time to adjust to being together after her long trip. She didn't want to make the effort, and instead bounced to the Next Guy, who might or might not be truly her soul mate. Time will tell.

[benevolent]

Based on your initial post she is definitely using you. It's all a control thing when you think about it. She's on a high right now with her new beau and in the process she is still controlling the strings that tug at your heart - that is until you stop letting her.

 

Why some people do this is beyond me, but it may be a reflection of their own lack of self-control and perhaps adds to their esteem, which may have never been there in the first place. I am sure if you met someone and, voided all contact and/or she got dumped by her bf, she would be looking you in a flash. It's a safety net syndrome that some people create because they need something to fall back on in the event that their decision in leaving you didn't work out.

 

I've probably said this several times already in earlier posts(my mind is like swiss cheese now -- do breakups affect memory?): sometimes a relationship takes work, real work.

 

My only disagreement with this is that relationships require consistent work by both parties all the time if it is to succeed.

 

Sounds like you deserve much better...

[innbranna]

This asymmetry stuff is one of the things I'd really like to get rid of if I ever got a chance to redesign Man. It's so sad that it has to be this power imbalance – that the one who loves less is the one in power. If we knew our own good, it would make sense for us to love the person who loves us, right? While in reality, the more you put your love on display, the more you turn the other person off.

 

Of course you might say that if this happens, then it's because the relationship was never meant to be anyway. But I'm not so sure. I think hazard and timing has more to do with it than we like to think about, and the asymmetry is just one of many malfunctions in relationships between people, and it's there for no good reason.

[Miss M]

Thank you, Miss M. It's been a surprising and sobering experience for me to grow up and learn that adults can be even crueler to each other than kids can be to each other in, say, junior high. The callousness of adults can be deeper and probably more scarring. (I had a miserable junior high experience, btw, and then a *great* time in high school.)

Yes, I agree. One of the teens on this board asked me if it ever gets better as people get older, and I had to tell him that sometimes people do grow old while continuing to mistreat others. Pretty sad, but that's reality. Some youngsters can be very caring, and some adults can be very selfish and cruel. Sometimes age doesn't necessarily make any difference at all in that way.

 

We all sense, I think, that there's a line between being a generous and giving person, and being a doormat and a schlub. I've had a pretty good feel for that line over the years, and have known with increasing accuracy when it was time to be nice and giving and kind... and when it was time to be a hard-a**, to step back and evaluate things, and do what had to be done (in the sense of whether a relationship was or wasn't working).

Well, I once had a better sense of that "line" also. Then like you, I also lost track of it, so I do relate to how easy it is to get caught up in an unbalanced relationship without realizing it has happened. While you're busy loving a person, "it" (losing track of the "line") kinda slips up on you. And the only wrong thing you've really done is love too much. It's not really a "wrong thing" is it?... being trusting and loving? But it sure takes a toll on person.

 

But here, because I believed with all my heart that she was The One -- something I, at 33, have never felt before -- I lost all sense of where that line was... and crossed well over, giving far more than I was receiving. I think at some point the relationship became pathological in the sense that I was trying to win her love, her acceptance: "see, I'll change.. I'm good enough.. I'll do anything" or something to that effect. It seems now, and this despite a persistent desire to see and hug her and so on, to have been an extremely unhealthy and essentially soul-sucking situation.

You also seem to have the ability to see it clearly now. Good for you. Some of us get lost there for several years, or a lifetime. I'm really sorry it still hurts you so much, but I also admire you for figuring it out and seeing it clearly at this stage. It took me quite a bit longer. And I do wish you better success with relationships in the future.

 

I've probably said this several times already in earlier posts(my mind is like swiss cheese now -- do breakups affect memory?):

Yes, sometimes they certainly do, but fortunately, healing also brings back the memory. Hang in there. It'll get better eventually.

 

sometimes a relationship takes work, real work. And the payoffs to that work can be that you both know you struggled *together* through a difficult time and that you will emerge more closely bound.

Well, yes, that's true, but it seems in this case, you were the only one "struggling," while she was off having a blast at your expense.

 

My ex believes with all her heart that she and I were not meant to be. I disagreed, of course, based on all that we'd shared and enjoyed together, and argued that in our case it would take time to adjust to being together after her long trip. She didn't want to make the effort, and instead bounced to the Next Guy, who might or might not be truly her soul mate. Time will tell.

My hunch is... he's just her next stopping off point until she's finds the next next guy. It's very likely he's in for the same treatment when she finds someone she thinks is more interesting.

 

 

 

 

This asymmetry stuff is one of the things I'd really like to get rid of if I ever got a chance to redesign Man. It's so sad that it has to be this power imbalance – that the one who loves less is the one in power. If we knew our own good, it would make sense for us to love the person who loves us, right? While in reality, the more you put your love on display, the more you turn the other person off.

You make some very good points. And I've had the same thoughts as you in regard to redesigning the species. I've had a lopsided relationship like this, but it was quite different because it was with my sister, and it has continued in a lopsided way most of our lives. And recently I also realized she loved me less, and thus was wielding the power. Such a shock to finally see that clearly. But it took me a really long time to see it that way because I genuinely thought she loved me as much as I loved her.

 

 

 

Its the ones who dont pay attention to how they affect others that should be shipped to some new penal colony we could call "egotopia"

And I've also had these thoughts as well. Wouldn't it be interesting if all the self-serving types were gathered together in a group, and were only allowed to be around others like themselves? That would be interesting. Then the loving types could be free to just love without a care.

[heloladies21]

Friend, you're doing good by staying in No Contact. Make sure it stays that way. And never blame yourself for what happened. Your love was true, but hers was not. You were lied to the whole time and there was no way to tell. Start talking to other chicks. It will do you good.

[Bounder]

Its not easy to just "start talking to other chicks" so dont worry if you cant do it right away. Make new friends, sign up for classes that will force you to get out of th ehouse.....but as soon as the business stops, find a way to cope, write, come here, whatever.....just keep your sanity. We're here to help

[saltwatergirl]

EGOTOPIA!!!!!!!! LOL Bounder, that is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Bravo!! I happen to know someone who could probably help colonize the place, so if you ever figure out how to get it set up, holler at me.

 

Salt

[jng92130]

Why are mornings so difficult? My work demands mental focus, on concentration and deliberation; it doesn't allow for wool-gathering over dead relationships. But it seems that every morning I spend the first two hours obsessing over what (who) I've lost. And here I am... I miss having her next to me when we wake up in the morning. (Remind self: there is NO WE! No more us. Done, finished, finis. Two months after the dumping, she has no interest in talking to me, nor I to her.) I miss her hands and perfect complexion, her beautiful brown eyes, our talking softly as we wake up, taking care of the dog, the morning routine..... I *hate* this new morning routine, alone and quiet: no girl, no dog, no breakfast, no talking, just doing what Has To Be Done.

 

The emotional and rational parts of me are just not talking. I'm better off without her, the intellect says; being with her was taking an enormous toll on self-esteem, on my goals, even on my health. I gave and gave and didn't get much in return. Being happy is a matter of choice, the rational side says, and I have to decide to be happy and make the effort to control, to take responsibility for, thoughts, emotions, and actions. But emotion pines for her. Why? Why does it do this, and thus cause such pain?

 

That I put so much effort into the asymmetric relationship, and for so long, must have some dark internal meaning, an indication that there's something inside me that needs to be fixed -- something to be sorted out in therapy, I s'pose.

 

I need, for one, a change of scenery. My current living situation was intended to be only for the short-term, to weather the storm of the break-up. I'm renting a room and sleeping on a thermarest. It's so strange to be confined essentially to a single room, to be a guest in someone else's house. Until mid-June, I had a house. Now I have an 11-year-old car, a rented room, and enough money to leave here and never look back. I just have to finish school, which I hope to do within the next two months. It's been a tough first month. Next month will be yet worse. There's light at the end of the tunnel, though.. right????

 

Mornings like these are so difficult.

[jng92130]

It might be that today is tough because it's her birthday today... and because in those two weeks in June before she ended things, she couldn't remember when my birthday was. I had to move out on my birthday.. and drove away for the last time that afternoon.

 

Stupid [my] brain. It seems to *want* to be miserable!

 

Is talking about these feelings a cleaning of house, a therapeutic purging, or is it obession? Putting it all out of mind would be so much easier.. and far more productive.

[Bounder]

I feel you man. I hate mornings. Being a grad student is even worse because I actually can roll over and keep sleeping....they are the toghest though, waking up alone. Stay strong. My rational side and emoionsl side arent communicating either. Part of me feels guilty for making her feel like my career was a priority, but then again, I love what i do, and I wont chnage that for anyone, though i will compromise. It's a tough battle

[Miss M]

It might be that today is tough because it's her birthday today... and because in those two weeks in June before she ended things, she couldn't remember when my birthday was. I had to move out on my birthday.. and drove away for the last time that afternoon.

 

Stupid [my] brain. It seems to *want* to be miserable!

 

Is talking about these feelings a cleaning of house, a therapeutic purging, or is it obession? Putting it all out of mind would be so much easier.. and far more productive.

Hey jng,

In my amateurish opinion, I think you're doing remarkably well. Going back and forth like this is normal, especially on significant anniversary days like birthdays. And yes, some talking about feelings is therapeutic purging. If it doesn't gradually start getting better overall in a few more weeks, then it could be an obsession, but it's probably normal at this point to still be hurting quite a lot. But do try to do some things to help yourself heal. Maybe get into a better living environment. At least try to plan some fun activities for yourself so you're not just grieving incessantly. It might be painful at first, but it's good to do something social so you don't get into a rut.

 

That I put so much effort into the asymmetric relationship, and for so long, must have some dark internal meaning, an indication that there's something inside me that needs to be fixed -- something to be sorted out in therapy, I s'pose.

I might also suggest touching base with a therapist because you gave so much without realizing you weren't getting it back. Seems things got a little skewed about what was really happening.

 

Until mid-June, I had a house. Now I have an 11-year-old car, a rented room, and enough money to leave here and never look back.

You actually had much more... you just gave it all away to her.

 

There's light at the end of the tunnel, though.. right????

Hope so. Anyway, I'm rooting for you to heal and move on.

All the best.

[innbranna]

That I put so much effort into the asymmetric relationship, and for so long, must have some dark internal meaning, an indication that there's something inside me that needs to be fixed.

It's not just you. I often marvel that people put so much effort into relationships that they know are bad for them, just in order to avoid change, or to avoid the pain that inevitably comes with putting an end to them. It goes for all kinds of situations, really. I'm like that myself. I'd choose the slow, everlasting torment over the sharp shock of pain any time. I can't really decide whether this endurance is a good thing or not.

 

Somehow it seems to be built into our systems that we keep fighting for what we (think we) have, rather than being forced to jump into the unknown.

 

But once we're there, in the unknown, we get to know it - and we wouldn't really want to go back.

 

Keep going. That's all I can say

[Bounder]

Did you know all along it was assymetric? Sometimes we thin we're just in a rough patch, and the other pseson just has to do small things, and we're content again....is that a fault? I'm not sure.

[jng92130]

posted also the the topic of my original story, which was mis-posted to a different area of the forum...

 

---

 

 

Choosing to be happy, yes. I've been reading about that quite a bit lately, on the net and in books. Happiness is a choice, they say. We can choose to be happy or to be miserable, and if you want the former, you must INTEND to be happy, and then take responsibility for your thoughts, feelings, and actions.

 

And that resonated deeply with me. I so like the idea of having perfect control over thoughts and emotions. That state of control is a worthy goal, and one that would certainly make my life easier and more pleasant. Is it attainable? After years of beating myself down, I don't know. This breakup, so curiously affecting, is another kick from Life: see? (so Life says) you didn't measure up again! But that's not a good or right way to think, is it? We are, as Dean in the Iron Giant says, who we choose to be. I would like at this point in my life to be a neurosurgeon or some other kind of doctor, like my dad. But in my first year of college, I was thrown off track and never got back on again...

 

My dad committed suicide when I was 19, in 1992. My youngest brother did the same in 1998 at the age of 21. You might say that the inclination toward self-destruction is exceptionally powerful in our family. Unfortunate and sad, considering, on the other hand, the good and fine and giving things that run in our family.

 

I'm on medication now, a mood stabilizer, but even so don't know really how long I can hold out in this pattern. So much time lost, so many opportunities squandered, so much love given and lost. I can't do anything rash to our little family that's left now -- my mama and my brother -- but some days I so wish for a quick and easy escape....

 

Choose to be happy, right? Do whatever it takes. No one told us that life would be so hard, something to soldier through at times. It doens't have to be, of course. It can be as full of fun and happiness as we make it. Hypnosis, that's what it will have to be.. and habit. We are what we think and do. Our thoughts become actions, actions become habits, habits become the patterns of our lives. I'm in training now: to learn to think better thoughts.

[Poppies]

The suicides of your father and brother are tragic and I am truly sorry. I'm sure that you probably have talked to someone about your feelings connected with them....a counsellor or similar. If not, it may be of help to do so?

 

Hmmmm...Choosing to be happy.....it sounds like it should be relatively easy... Well, I just wanted to write down some things that I've been thinking for a while now - connected with happiness or lack of! ...apologies in advance for any rambling...

It seems that some people are much more sensitive than others and they experience emotions more acutely. I think this can also lead to them being affected more deeply by life events. It seems that very sensitive people also think and analyse much more - maybe too much! Just what I've noticed....

From what I've read - this propensity to being highly senstive can be determined by genetics and/or type of family life. My family life was not a happy one - my parents had far too many issues of their own to deal with - they were unable to really be parents to their children. I think that's why I experience terrible, long term anxiety after the break up of a relationship. Fearfulness and abandonment. I think the profound need to be in control also has a lot do with needing to be able to rely on a situation and to trust it fully - which is definitely not the case when a realtionship has broken down.

 

and I really wanted to ask - is there no way for you to follow your dreams or something close to your dream? You're still very young! and you sound strong and a clear thinker.

 

Poppies